MoCo seeking feedback on proposal to limit single family zoning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh no the poor bigots will leave

Oh yeah, TOTALLY.

That’s why most all of the YImBYs are dorky white childless millennials. I only say mostly because I guess that you have Dan Reed as your token non-white.

But thank god you are here to speak for POC, who are ALSO homeowners who are concerned about their neighborhoods.

Yes, this a regressive handout to developers disguised as a social justice policy. This zoning proposal will disproportionately harm middle class and upper-middle class POC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh no the poor bigots will leave

Oh yeah, TOTALLY.

That’s why most all of the YImBYs are dorky white childless millennials. I only say mostly because I guess that you have Dan Reed as your token non-white.

But thank god you are here to speak for POC, who are ALSO homeowners who are concerned about their neighborhoods.

Yes, this a regressive handout to developers disguised as a social justice policy. This zoning proposal will disproportionately harm middle class and upper-middle class POC.

Guess who will have the most crowded classrooms and the most crowded schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh no the poor bigots will leave

The "bigots" account for a significant share of county funding and they will not tolerate poorly planned zoning policies that raise taxes while defunding local government services. Good luck funding anything when these rich people you hate move to Virginia or Florida.

Wait, I thought you bigots keep claiming eliminating single family zoning will cover the county in apartments yet won't help housing costs at all?

If there are so many people clamoring to live in MoCo that they'll bid up thousands of new units to the point prices don't fall at all, then clearly there are enough people who want to live here that nobody will miss you or your tax dollars when you leave.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[Anonymous]

I don't get if you're allowed to put a triplex on any sized lot. So all these 5000 square lots can now put multi-story houses on them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't get if you're allowed to put a triplex on any sized lot. So all these 5000 square lots can now put multi-story houses on them?

Yes, you would be able to do that and they would also be able to subdivide lots to create new undersized lots by-right. So they would actually be able to put two triplexes on that formerly 5000 sq foot lot in many circumstances.

[Anonymous]

I wonder how the aging pipes and water mains and sewage treatment facilities, etc. are equipped to deal with such things?

My guess is they are not.

I encourage everyone to drive around some of the neighborhoods where families are quadrupled up and count the cars parked on the streets…and the yards. Ever been to Aspen Hill?

I’d rather the county take leadership on developing or incentivizing the development of intentional communities instead of just letting flippers throw together poorly constructed duplexes and triplexes. So, so, so very stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m all for it if they confine it to Potomac, Bethesda, Chevy Chase, and the good part of Kensington. Ya know…the expensive areas that can afford to absorb more families with kids and more diversity (both racial and economic).

But allowing this higher-density housing in neighborhoods where lower income immigrants and minorities are already doubled and tripled and sometimes quadrupled up in SFHs is just a bad idea that will result in overcrowded schools and unhealthy environments.

Did everyone see the recent (maybe a month or so ago) Redfin link to a flop house in 20906? That area is filled with SFHs that people have converted for multiple families to rent. And it’s not good. Crime is bad, schools are bad, and it’s prompting white flight.

Neighborhoods aren’t diverse when they are 90%+ one ethnic group. The schools suffer, the area businesses shift, and some areas effectively become no go zones.

When is the last time anyone shopped in Glenmont? Or Veirs Mill Village?

It’s fine to build such housing in areas where it’s expected: where people can access public transportation and walkability is high. Or try to build it on the west side of the county (that for whatever reason escaped having multiple garden apartments and affordable housing). Heck, you could plop down massive tiny home communities on the large lots in Potomac. Have at it!

No thanks. I’d like to see migrants and day laborers and housekeepers trudging through my expansive, maple lined neighborhood in Potomac where homes are 2-3 acres apart to get to the bus lines to get to their jobs. Or 30 kids at a bus stop off of river road. You guys all hate the places where people who worked hard and prospered life but you will never be able to ruin it! It’s just going to build more urban density in the poor areas. This is tone deaf stupid and awful!!!

[Anonymous]

I’m glad we’re finally doing upzoning. For those supporting the attainable housing strategy, please consider supporting the zoning changes but opposing the proposed tax breaks. We really can’t afford them (the MCPS expansion budget is already underfunded), and they undermine planning’s assertion that infrastructure like schools will come with new housing because there won’t be enough money to pay for new schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how the aging pipes and water mains and sewage treatment facilities, etc. are equipped to deal with such things?

My guess is they are not.

I encourage everyone to drive around some of the neighborhoods where families are quadrupled up and count the cars parked on the streets…and the yards. Ever been to Aspen Hill?

I’d rather the county take leadership on developing or incentivizing the development of intentional communities instead of just letting flippers throw together poorly constructed duplexes and triplexes. So, so, so very stupid.

I imagine there would be some challenges. Our neighbor tore down a 1200 square foot old home and put up a 5500 square foot home getting rid of all the grass and mature trees to fill the whole lot. Despite the water management plan that MoCo required them to have, our yard and our neighbor's yard which had never had issues in the past started to flood. There was no place for water to go but our houses and we both had to pay for additional drainage because MoCo Planning said the builder had an appropriate water management plan and it was cheaper to pay for drainage than to get a lawyer and try to fight the builder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh no the poor bigots will leave

The "bigots" account for a significant share of county funding and they will not tolerate poorly planned zoning policies that raise taxes while defunding local government services. Good luck funding anything when these rich people you hate move to Virginia or Florida.

Wait, I thought you bigots keep claiming eliminating single family zoning will cover the county in apartments yet won't help housing costs at all?

If there are so many people clamoring to live in MoCo that they'll bid up thousands of new units to the point prices don't fall at all, then clearly there are enough people who want to live here that nobody will miss you or your tax dollars when you leave.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I understand that you have good intentions and you genuinely believe in this proposal, but it does not reflect reality of why neighborhoods are desirable in the first place. These biggest advocates of these proposal are largely designed by out of touch white people with sheltered upbringings who have never lived in a low-income neighborhood. My family was poor and we lived in one of those neighborhoods with high crime and terrible schools. Almost everyone I know that made something of themselves is strongly opposed to eliminating single family zoning because it protects quality of life for middle class people. MOCO will not be able to fund high-quality government services if you drive away high-income and middle income taxpayers with poorly designed policies. People with the means to relocate will not tolerate poorly performing schools and other negative quality of life factors. Unfortunately, the reality is that there is a very strong correlation between household income and crime rates. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4180846/
The difference in violent crime rates between the top 20% and the bottom 20% of this income distribution is 6.8x. It only takes a small change in these neighborhoods to double crime levels. People will not tolerate increases in crime; they will leave and MOCO will enter a fiscal death spiral. The reality is that people living in neighborhoods are what make it desirable and you have the causality backyards. YIMBY policies will not improve MOCO, they are more likely to destroy what used to be one of the best places to live in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m all for it if they confine it to Potomac, Bethesda, Chevy Chase, and the good part of Kensington. Ya know…the expensive areas that can afford to absorb more families with kids and more diversity (both racial and economic).

But allowing this higher-density housing in neighborhoods where lower income immigrants and minorities are already doubled and tripled and sometimes quadrupled up in SFHs is just a bad idea that will result in overcrowded schools and unhealthy environments.

Did everyone see the recent (maybe a month or so ago) Redfin link to a flop house in 20906? That area is filled with SFHs that people have converted for multiple families to rent. And it’s not good. Crime is bad, schools are bad, and it’s prompting white flight.

Neighborhoods aren’t diverse when they are 90%+ one ethnic group. The schools suffer, the area businesses shift, and some areas effectively become no go zones.

When is the last time anyone shopped in Glenmont? Or Veirs Mill Village?

It’s fine to build such housing in areas where it’s expected: where people can access public transportation and walkability is high. Or try to build it on the west side of the county (that for whatever reason escaped having multiple garden apartments and affordable housing). Heck, you could plop down massive tiny home communities on the large lots in Potomac. Have at it!

+1000


Of course the areas targeted will be SS, Wheaton, etc. They need to start with the historic districts in Takoma Park and Kensington. Then Bethesda. Then Chevy Chase. Rockville deserves it too. Silver spring should be absolutely last to have these ideas imposed. Put up or shutup progressives. There should be zero exemptions for anyone. No loopholes with incorporated sub districts/ cities allowed. Start with all of the wealthiest areas first. If they want equality so much, it makes so much more sense to house poors with the richest first, that way impoverished people will magically absorb some of the wealth by simply living in those areas. They voted for it, so give it to em.

+ 2000
I would only support this IF they were also to do it in those neighborhoods. Zero exemptions or loopholes for any neighborhood in Montgomery County. Then we'll see the true colors. Historic houses can be turned into duplexs/triplexes, while maintaining the charming exterior. Don't let the "historic" designation be a deterrent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh no the poor bigots will leave

The "bigots" account for a significant share of county funding and they will not tolerate poorly planned zoning policies that raise taxes while defunding local government services. Good luck funding anything when these rich people you hate move to Virginia or Florida.

Wait, I thought you bigots keep claiming eliminating single family zoning will cover the county in apartments yet won't help housing costs at all?

If there are so many people clamoring to live in MoCo that they'll bid up thousands of new units to the point prices don't fall at all, then clearly there are enough people who want to live here that nobody will miss you or your tax dollars when you leave.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I understand that you have good intentions and you genuinely believe in this proposal, but it does not reflect reality of why neighborhoods are desirable in the first place. These biggest advocates of these proposal are largely designed by out of touch white people with sheltered upbringings who have never lived in a low-income neighborhood. My family was poor and we lived in one of those neighborhoods with high crime and terrible schools. Almost everyone I know that made something of themselves is strongly opposed to eliminating single family zoning because it protects quality of life for middle class people. MOCO will not be able to fund high-quality government services if you drive away high-income and middle income taxpayers with poorly designed policies. People with the means to relocate will not tolerate poorly performing schools and other negative quality of life factors. Unfortunately, the reality is that there is a very strong correlation between household income and crime rates. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4180846/
The difference in violent crime rates between the top 20% and the bottom 20% of this income distribution is 6.8x. It only takes a small change in these neighborhoods to double crime levels. People will not tolerate increases in crime; they will leave and MOCO will enter a fiscal death spiral. The reality is that people living in neighborhoods are what make it desirable and you have the causality backyards. YIMBY policies will not improve MOCO, they are more likely to destroy what used to be one of the best places to live in the US.

DP. I feel obligated to point this out every time this zoning debate comes up, but MOCO has been asking for this outcome, and frankly deserves it. MOCO has reliably voted for lax immigration, poverty perpetuation and erosion of law and order. They deserve to have these people far more than the residents of Springfield, OH do. Frankly, it makes far more sense to drop refugees and other immigrants into MOCO by the tens of thousands than pretty much anywhere else in the country.

Its really time MOCO home owners had to deal with the consequences of their voting and virtue signaling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://moco360.media/2024/09/04/county-to-hear-from-public-on-proposal-to-limit-single-family-zoning/?utm_source=MoCo360&utm_campaign=2a42d0fbf4-POLITICS_NEWSLETTER_09132024&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1bbe9df5d9-2a42d0fbf4-105195105&mc_cid=2a42d0fbf4&mc_eid=d032765bbc

MoCo seeking feedback on proposal to limit single family zoning. Note dates for listening sessions.

Speak now or forever hold your peace.

Thanks for the link. You're right, I need to speak up. I will plan to go to one of the sessions to support the proposal.

If you want to live in a city, move to one. Let the rest of us enjoy the space we bought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m all for it if they confine it to Potomac, Bethesda, Chevy Chase, and the good part of Kensington. Ya know…the expensive areas that can afford to absorb more families with kids and more diversity (both racial and economic).

But allowing this higher-density housing in neighborhoods where lower income immigrants and minorities are already doubled and tripled and sometimes quadrupled up in SFHs is just a bad idea that will result in overcrowded schools and unhealthy environments.

Did everyone see the recent (maybe a month or so ago) Redfin link to a flop house in 20906? That area is filled with SFHs that people have converted for multiple families to rent. And it’s not good. Crime is bad, schools are bad, and it’s prompting white flight.

Neighborhoods aren’t diverse when they are 90%+ one ethnic group. The schools suffer, the area businesses shift, and some areas effectively become no go zones.

When is the last time anyone shopped in Glenmont? Or Veirs Mill Village?

It’s fine to build such housing in areas where it’s expected: where people can access public transportation and walkability is high. Or try to build it on the west side of the county (that for whatever reason escaped having multiple garden apartments and affordable housing). Heck, you could plop down massive tiny home communities on the large lots in Potomac. Have at it!

OK, so you are a YIYBY (yes, in "your" [someone else's] backyard) Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m glad we’re finally doing upzoning. For those supporting the attainable housing strategy, please consider supporting the zoning changes but opposing the proposed tax breaks. We really can’t afford them (the MCPS expansion budget is already underfunded), and they undermine planning’s assertion that infrastructure like schools will come with new housing because there won’t be enough money to pay for new schools.

You are “upzoning” on the backs of middle class and working class families who worked hard to save for a SFH and whose nest eggs are tied up in those homes. These developers are going to set up shop in Bethesda and Potomac.