TJ admissions results out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hannah Natanson needs to start reading DCUM

+1
She is a very shallow reporter. To simply parrot the 33% low income figure - which is entirely unbelievable - without any mention of the fact that the question for that highly likely resulted in many non-low income kids replying yes to it - is the best example.

Is anyone actually going to offer any evidence to support this claim?

What do you mean? There is no evidence that could be provided given how FCPS designed this parameter.
They did not require families to show any income info to qualify for the low income category (which got plus points in the application process).
They did not square those replying yes to the free meals question against prior FCPS FARMS status records to try to help confirm anything.
The question was one that anyone could have truthfully (if not entirely honestly in spirit) answered yes to as all families this year were eligible for free meals and many did eat free meals at least some of the time.

Given the reality of FCPS testing data for FARMS it defies belief to think that 1/3 of the class is actually low income. I would happily bet a ton of money on that being false. When free meals for all are gone and FCPS has to resume checking eligibility again this number will plummet like a rock. There will still be some kids but absolutely zero chance it will be 1/3 of the class.

I find it mind boggling that a reporter could parrot this figure without noting it is self reported and based on replies to the “are you eligible for free lunch during a year when all students are eligible for it?” question.

My understanding was they only asked this for private school students whose info they didn't already have.

My child attends an FCPS middle school and applied this year. Here are the two questions that his TJ Application asked:

1. Are you eligible for free meals?
2. Are you currently receiving free meals?

I contacted the TJ Admissions office and they said that they were aware of the issue and that parents could say Yes to Question #1. If your child was actually eating the free meals, they could say yes to #2.

It did not make any sense at the time and it still does not make sense.

Exactly!
As to knowing FCPS did not verify it…at some point someone will spend the money on a FOIA to get that. I have not. But again, I’d be willing to bet my house that they did not verify actual low income status simply because the 33% low income is so ludicrously high.

It’s highly unlikely that a lot of parents misrepresented their incomes on the application. Very unethical.

I disagree. The question was written very poorly. Everyone is eligible for free meals this year and some might be receiving them. DD has had the school lunch the entire year. However, I answered no on both of those questions because I just assumed they referred to low income eligibility for free meals. There were people on this forum posting about how they had called TJ admissions and were told that anyone could check the box. If you tried to do the right thing and answer honestly you were penalized. That is what I am assuming unless FCPS provides more guidance on how that question was supposed to be interpreted.

You really should have answered yes to at least #2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hannah Natanson needs to start reading DCUM

+1
She is a very shallow reporter. To simply parrot the 33% low income figure - which is entirely unbelievable - without any mention of the fact that the question for that highly likely resulted in many non-low income kids replying yes to it - is the best example.

Is anyone actually going to offer any evidence to support this claim?

What do you mean? There is no evidence that could be provided given how FCPS designed this parameter.
They did not require families to show any income info to qualify for the low income category (which got plus points in the application process).
They did not square those replying yes to the free meals question against prior FCPS FARMS status records to try to help confirm anything.
The question was one that anyone could have truthfully (if not entirely honestly in spirit) answered yes to as all families this year were eligible for free meals and many did eat free meals at least some of the time.

Given the reality of FCPS testing data for FARMS it defies belief to think that 1/3 of the class is actually low income. I would happily bet a ton of money on that being false. When free meals for all are gone and FCPS has to resume checking eligibility again this number will plummet like a rock. There will still be some kids but absolutely zero chance it will be 1/3 of the class.

I find it mind boggling that a reporter could parrot this figure without noting it is self reported and based on replies to the “are you eligible for free lunch during a year when all students are eligible for it?” question.

My understanding was they only asked this for private school students whose info they didn't already have.

My child attends an FCPS middle school and applied this year. Here are the two questions that his TJ Application asked:

1. Are you eligible for free meals?
2. Are you currently receiving free meals?

I contacted the TJ Admissions office and they said that they were aware of the issue and that parents could say Yes to Question #1. If your child was actually eating the free meals, they could say yes to #2.

It did not make any sense at the time and it still does not make sense.

Exactly!
As to knowing FCPS did not verify it…at some point someone will spend the money on a FOIA to get that. I have not. But again, I’d be willing to bet my house that they did not verify actual low income status simply because the 33% low income is so ludicrously high.

It’s highly unlikely that a lot of parents misrepresented their incomes on the application. Very unethical.

Very likely since FCPS only audits 3% of those applying for FRM to verify income.

You think non-low-income families really go through all of the paperwork to get free/reduced lunches because they know it’s unlikely they will be audited?

Seems like you are projecting your own unethical behavior on others.

It’s very unlikely that families are falsely applying for low/reduced lunches.

And it’s unlikely that many families answered yes if they aren’t low-income because we all know what the questions represent. It would be unethical to answer yes to both if you aren’t low-income and not actually receiving free meals.

I hope the admissions team disqualified anyone who misrepresented themselves.

They did not disqualify anyone. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp you is turning this into an attack on low income kids - please, that is not what the argument is here. Of COURSE there are some really smart and capable low income kids. Duh. And some of us (me included) even support the 1.5% MS pool allocations and support the bump for being low income.

The ENTIRE point here is whether it is credible that 1/3 (!!!!) of the TJ class is truly low income. This is just not believable. I’ll take your “I was wrong” a year from now though when FCPS uses the same admission formula and there are not more free meals for all and the FARMS figure curiously plummets. This WILL happen. While it may not have been ethical to reply yes to the free meals questions this year people who did were not lying.

The number is obviously somewhere between 0.6% and 33%.

It really depends on how many parents were willing to cheat on the application.

There are many qualified, low-income students and we aren’t “lowering the bar” by giving them access to TJ.

Reading the questions that were posed and responding to them is not cheating.

It was clear that this was a loophole. If parents didn’t take advantage of it, that’s on them.

Sorry, but that’s the honest truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp you is turning this into an attack on low income kids - please, that is not what the argument is here. Of COURSE there are some really smart and capable low income kids. Duh. And some of us (me included) even support the 1.5% MS pool allocations and support the bump for being low income.

The ENTIRE point here is whether it is credible that 1/3 (!!!!) of the TJ class is truly low income. This is just not believable. I’ll take your “I was wrong” a year from now though when FCPS uses the same admission formula and there are not more free meals for all and the FARMS figure curiously plummets. This WILL happen. While it may not have been ethical to reply yes to the free meals questions this year people who did were not lying.

The number is obviously somewhere between 0.6% and 33%.

It really depends on how many parents were willing to cheat on the application.

There are many qualified, low-income students and we aren’t “lowering the bar” by giving them access to TJ.

Reading the questions that were posed and responding to them is not cheating.

It was clear that this was a loophole. If parents didn’t take advantage of it, that’s on them.

Sorry, but that’s the honest truth.

Knowingly taking advantage = cheating

[Anonymous]

At the end of the day, TJ is essentially a $200,000 education for free. FREE. If my child was not attending TJ, we would be in one of the area’s top privates. The education offered at the base schools just does not compare. There are almost no post-AP classes offered at Marshall, McLean or Langley while TJ has dozens.

With that on the line, I would absolutely fully expect that clue-in parents would read the application like they read the IRS tax code. (As in read it Literally!) If the TJ admissions office doesn’t care if parents say yes and did not correct the question after parent inquired, neither should the parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp who keeps arguing 1/3 of the class being low income is plausible….is it because you think they lowered the barbTHAT much? Low income students generally struggle at MUCH higher rates re: academics in FCPS than other kids - and that is comparing them just to the average testing level not the top. Why do you think it is believable that SO many now meet the TJ requirements ? I know they are lower than prior years but they still do mandate GOA and classes that are far less common for low income students.

There are only 550 seats. Fewer if you are just looking at FCPS. Out of the approx 3800 low-income 8th graders in FCPS I’m sure there are at least 180 well-qualified students who will succeed at TJ.

I know one low-income kid who was just admitted and this kid is great. Very bright, hard worker, received recognition from school in an academic area. Too in classes. Only in Alg I honors because they moved here two years ago and didn’t understand the rat race math early on. Anyway. Great kid. TJ will be lucky to have them. Glad they have the opportunity with the new admissions process.

I’m sure some unethical parents answered yes, but very unlikely it was many because most understood what the question represented and they didn’t want to cheat.

The question is not about how deserving lower-income kids are. Nor is it about the wonderful lower income family and how lucky TJ is to have them. I am sure that is all true.

This is about the School Board fudging numbers to show 33% lower-income admits. It is too far-fetched to be plausible. FCPS is 27% lower-income and the TJ admits are 33% lower-income. Those of us that work with underprivileged know that it is a struggle for the underprivileged to access what is due to them - for reasons of apathy, discrimination and such. But for the underprivileged to punch beyond their weight especially in such a charged environment? Somebody nominate the School Board for the Nobel Prize

My point is this kid is well-qualified and will do well at TJ. Likely wouldn’t have had the opportunity with the previous admissions process.

This kid is not alone. You doubt there are 180 well-qualified, low-income 8th graders in all of FCPS?

I doubt that the 180 low-income admits as reported by FCPS are truly low-income. This is for all the reasons discussed on this board. FARMS is normally offered to those families that earn less than 185% of the poverty level (defined at $27,750 in 2019). That comes to an income level of $47,638. You can index it for inflation and it could be $55,000 or so in 2022. You are telling me that 33% of the class is made up of families making less than $55k annually. I will have what you are smoking. Thank you.

And again this is not about doubting the capabilities of the underprivileged. FCPS statistics run counter to studies from over the years that show how the underprivileged access public services. It is implausible and the data is corrupt.

I’m sure there were some cheaters. Some on DCUM even admitted to cheating.

Not sure why you are surprised at those numbers. Try to get out of your affluent bubble sometime.

27% of FCPS is low-income. That’s around 3,800 8th graders. There are certainly at least 180 of them who are well-qualified for TJ.

Nobody cheated. They answered yes after checking with the schools who confirmed they could answer yes. The School Board screwed up in using the FARMS question as a proxy for low-income (the shoddy nature of this half-baked reform). The villains of this are neither the underprivileged kids nor the folks who legitimately answered yes. The villain is the School Board for rushing through a process that ad obvious shortcomings.

Try living on $55K (as a family no less) and draw up a list of priorities. It is easy to practice white saviorism but real life is very different.

Sure, you could have answered yes but you should not have. Unethical. Cheating. Illegitimate.

You assume every kid from a low-income family can’t hack it? Gross.

Why are you trying to sh1t on low-income kids? Makes you feel better about misrepresenting your family on the application?

Learn to read. This is not about the underprivileged kids and I have said it repeatedly. Nor is it about me. What you are trying to do is obfuscation. A charlatan indulging in obfuscation. I got 2 words for you today.

I the interim, see your therapist and educate yourself on the white savior complex. You are sounding very unhinged.

https://www.health.com/mind-body/health-diversity-inclusion/white-savior-complex

Wow. You are really lashing out. I must have hit a nerve.

Don’t like being called out for cheating, eh?

Look - you are not in a good place right now. This discussion is about verifying FCPS’ claim that 33% of the admitted class is truly low-income. Conventional logic and supporting data makes the claim incredibly suspect. You keep attacking posters at a personal level and trying to frame the discussion somehow as an attack on the ability of low-income kids to succeed. That framing helps you feel good because you feel like you are standing up for your cause. But that is not the issue here at all.

Read up on white saviorism. I am sure it manifests in your life in different ways.

https://mashable.com/article/what-is-white-savior

There are many more such articles - mostly written by PoCs.

Says the person who threw out the first personal attack about “white saviorism”. Ok.

And are you the same poster claiming that low-income kids “lower the bar”? GTGO.

There are more than 0.6 and less than 33%. Depends on how many parents unethically “took advantage” of the poorly worded questions.

But all of the kids who are there - regardless of income - are well-qualified.


Any

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At the end of the day, TJ is essentially a $200,000 education for free. FREE. If my child was not attending TJ, we would be in one of the area’s top privates. The education offered at the base schools just does not compare. There are almost no post-AP classes offered at Marshall, McLean or Langley while TJ has dozens.

With that on the line, I would absolutely fully expect that clue-in parents would read the application like they read the IRS tax code. (As in read it Literally!) If the TJ admissions office doesn’t care if parents say yes and did not correct the question after parent inquired, neither should the parents.

Which top privates offer post-AP classes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hannah Natanson needs to start reading DCUM

+1
She is a very shallow reporter. To simply parrot the 33% low income figure - which is entirely unbelievable - without any mention of the fact that the question for that highly likely resulted in many non-low income kids replying yes to it - is the best example.

Is anyone actually going to offer any evidence to support this claim?

What do you mean? There is no evidence that could be provided given how FCPS designed this parameter.
They did not require families to show any income info to qualify for the low income category (which got plus points in the application process).
They did not square those replying yes to the free meals question against prior FCPS FARMS status records to try to help confirm anything.
The question was one that anyone could have truthfully (if not entirely honestly in spirit) answered yes to as all families this year were eligible for free meals and many did eat free meals at least some of the time.

Given the reality of FCPS testing data for FARMS it defies belief to think that 1/3 of the class is actually low income. I would happily bet a ton of money on that being false. When free meals for all are gone and FCPS has to resume checking eligibility again this number will plummet like a rock. There will still be some kids but absolutely zero chance it will be 1/3 of the class.

I find it mind boggling that a reporter could parrot this figure without noting it is self reported and based on replies to the “are you eligible for free lunch during a year when all students are eligible for it?” question.

My understanding was they only asked this for private school students whose info they didn't already have.

My child attends an FCPS middle school and applied this year. Here are the two questions that his TJ Application asked:

1. Are you eligible for free meals?
2. Are you currently receiving free meals?

I contacted the TJ Admissions office and they said that they were aware of the issue and that parents could say Yes to Question #1. If your child was actually eating the free meals, they could say yes to #2.

It did not make any sense at the time and it still does not make sense.

Exactly!
As to knowing FCPS did not verify it…at some point someone will spend the money on a FOIA to get that. I have not. But again, I’d be willing to bet my house that they did not verify actual low income status simply because the 33% low income is so ludicrously high.

It’s highly unlikely that a lot of parents misrepresented their incomes on the application. Very unethical.

I disagree. The question was written very poorly. Everyone is eligible for free meals this year and some might be receiving them. DD has had the school lunch the entire year. However, I answered no on both of those questions because I just assumed they referred to low income eligibility for free meals. There were people on this forum posting about how they had called TJ admissions and were told that anyone could check the box. If you tried to do the right thing and answer honestly you were penalized. That is what I am assuming unless FCPS provides more guidance on how that question was supposed to be interpreted.

You really should have answered yes to at least #2

Not if you are an ethical person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS has been strangely silent on a press release. I’m also very curious about how the “free meals for all” policy affected the applicant pool including special education, etc.

Based on the article, I don’t think any kids with IEPs were admitted this year. The Special Education experience factor is tiny (20Pts?) and the free meals experience factor is 90 points. If you had a school where a lot of kids checked yes to the meals questions, that would overwhelm any kids that might have the special education.

[Anonymous]

For comparison:


Based on Virginia DOE data comparing fall 2018 to fall 2013: the change in percentage is followed by the FARMS percentages for 2018-19 school year:

Falls Church -4.30% (50.05%)
Fairfax -3.87% (22.11%)
Hayfield -1.24% (28.61%)
Marshall -0.83% (17.39%)
McLean -0.45% (8.31%)
TJ -0.37% (1.86%)
Lake Braddock -0.23% (15.22%)
Langley -0.13% (1.77%)
Robinson +0.03% (10.72%)
Chantilly +0.31% (16.34%)
Edison +0.35% (35.59%)
South County +0.57% (18.43%)
West Springfield +0.83% (12.72%)
West Potomac +1.04% (40.89%)
Mount Vernon +1.35% (57.98%)
South Lakes +1.77% (27.76%)
Madison +1.82% (9.98%)
Lee +1.89% (51.46%)
Oakton +2.38% (12.40%)
Centreville +2.93% (26.39%)
Woodson +3.11% (11.94%)
Westfield +3.39% (25.42%)
Justice +5.99% (61.00%)
Herndon +7.99% (40.53%)
Annandale +9.34% (59.72%)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp who keeps arguing 1/3 of the class being low income is plausible….is it because you think they lowered the barbTHAT much? Low income students generally struggle at MUCH higher rates re: academics in FCPS than other kids - and that is comparing them just to the average testing level not the top. Why do you think it is believable that SO many now meet the TJ requirements ? I know they are lower than prior years but they still do mandate GOA and classes that are far less common for low income students.

There are only 550 seats. Fewer if you are just looking at FCPS. Out of the approx 3800 low-income 8th graders in FCPS I’m sure there are at least 180 well-qualified students who will succeed at TJ.

I know one low-income kid who was just admitted and this kid is great. Very bright, hard worker, received recognition from school in an academic area. Too in classes. Only in Alg I honors because they moved here two years ago and didn’t understand the rat race math early on. Anyway. Great kid. TJ will be lucky to have them. Glad they have the opportunity with the new admissions process.

I’m sure some unethical parents answered yes, but very unlikely it was many because most understood what the question represented and they didn’t want to cheat.

The question is not about how deserving lower-income kids are. Nor is it about the wonderful lower income family and how lucky TJ is to have them. I am sure that is all true.

This is about the School Board fudging numbers to show 33% lower-income admits. It is too far-fetched to be plausible. FCPS is 27% lower-income and the TJ admits are 33% lower-income. Those of us that work with underprivileged know that it is a struggle for the underprivileged to access what is due to them - for reasons of apathy, discrimination and such. But for the underprivileged to punch beyond their weight especially in such a charged environment? Somebody nominate the School Board for the Nobel Prize

My point is this kid is well-qualified and will do well at TJ. Likely wouldn’t have had the opportunity with the previous admissions process.

This kid is not alone. You doubt there are 180 well-qualified, low-income 8th graders in all of FCPS?

I doubt that the 180 low-income admits as reported by FCPS are truly low-income. This is for all the reasons discussed on this board. FARMS is normally offered to those families that earn less than 185% of the poverty level (defined at $27,750 in 2019). That comes to an income level of $47,638. You can index it for inflation and it could be $55,000 or so in 2022. You are telling me that 33% of the class is made up of families making less than $55k annually. I will have what you are smoking. Thank you.

And again this is not about doubting the capabilities of the underprivileged. FCPS statistics run counter to studies from over the years that show how the underprivileged access public services. It is implausible and the data is corrupt.

I’m sure there were some cheaters. Some on DCUM even admitted to cheating.

Not sure why you are surprised at those numbers. Try to get out of your affluent bubble sometime.

27% of FCPS is low-income. That’s around 3,800 8th graders. There are certainly at least 180 of them who are well-qualified for TJ.

Nobody cheated. They answered yes after checking with the schools who confirmed they could answer yes. The School Board screwed up in using the FARMS question as a proxy for low-income (the shoddy nature of this half-baked reform). The villains of this are neither the underprivileged kids nor the folks who legitimately answered yes. The villain is the School Board for rushing through a process that ad obvious shortcomings.

Try living on $55K (as a family no less) and draw up a list of priorities. It is easy to practice white saviorism but real life is very different.

Sure, you could have answered yes but you should not have. Unethical. Cheating. Illegitimate.

You assume every kid from a low-income family can’t hack it? Gross.

Why are you trying to sh1t on low-income kids? Makes you feel better about misrepresenting your family on the application?

Learn to read. This is not about the underprivileged kids and I have said it repeatedly. Nor is it about me. What you are trying to do is obfuscation. A charlatan indulging in obfuscation. I got 2 words for you today.

I the interim, see your therapist and educate yourself on the white savior complex. You are sounding very unhinged.

https://www.health.com/mind-body/health-diversity-inclusion/white-savior-complex

Wow. You are really lashing out. I must have hit a nerve.

Don’t like being called out for cheating, eh?

Look - you are not in a good place right now. This discussion is about verifying FCPS’ claim that 33% of the admitted class is truly low-income. Conventional logic and supporting data makes the claim incredibly suspect. You keep attacking posters at a personal level and trying to frame the discussion somehow as an attack on the ability of low-income kids to succeed. That framing helps you feel good because you feel like you are standing up for your cause. But that is not the issue here at all.

Read up on white saviorism. I am sure it manifests in your life in different ways.

https://mashable.com/article/what-is-white-savior

There are many more such articles - mostly written by PoCs.

Says the person who threw out the first personal attack about “white saviorism”. Ok.

And are you the same poster claiming that low-income kids “lower the bar”? GTGO.

There are more than 0.6 and less than 33%. Depends on how many parents unethically “took advantage” of the poorly worded questions.

But all of the kids who are there - regardless of income - are well-qualified.


Any

Only love and good wishes go your way! Get well soon.

One think we can agree on is that all kids deserved a shot. The fact that anyone was admitted was not their fault. The fault, if any lies with the adults including and especially the administration. But good luck to the kids and hope they all do well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hannah Natanson needs to start reading DCUM

+1
She is a very shallow reporter. To simply parrot the 33% low income figure - which is entirely unbelievable - without any mention of the fact that the question for that highly likely resulted in many non-low income kids replying yes to it - is the best example.

Is anyone actually going to offer any evidence to support this claim?

What do you mean? There is no evidence that could be provided given how FCPS designed this parameter.
They did not require families to show any income info to qualify for the low income category (which got plus points in the application process).
They did not square those replying yes to the free meals question against prior FCPS FARMS status records to try to help confirm anything.
The question was one that anyone could have truthfully (if not entirely honestly in spirit) answered yes to as all families this year were eligible for free meals and many did eat free meals at least some of the time.

Given the reality of FCPS testing data for FARMS it defies belief to think that 1/3 of the class is actually low income. I would happily bet a ton of money on that being false. When free meals for all are gone and FCPS has to resume checking eligibility again this number will plummet like a rock. There will still be some kids but absolutely zero chance it will be 1/3 of the class.

I find it mind boggling that a reporter could parrot this figure without noting it is self reported and based on replies to the “are you eligible for free lunch during a year when all students are eligible for it?” question.

My understanding was they only asked this for private school students whose info they didn't already have.

My child attends an FCPS middle school and applied this year. Here are the two questions that his TJ Application asked:

1. Are you eligible for free meals?
2. Are you currently receiving free meals?

I contacted the TJ Admissions office and they said that they were aware of the issue and that parents could say Yes to Question #1. If your child was actually eating the free meals, they could say yes to #2.

It did not make any sense at the time and it still does not make sense.

Exactly!
As to knowing FCPS did not verify it…at some point someone will spend the money on a FOIA to get that. I have not. But again, I’d be willing to bet my house that they did not verify actual low income status simply because the 33% low income is so ludicrously high.

It’s highly unlikely that a lot of parents misrepresented their incomes on the application. Very unethical.

I disagree. The question was written very poorly. Everyone is eligible for free meals this year and some might be receiving them. DD has had the school lunch the entire year. However, I answered no on both of those questions because I just assumed they referred to low income eligibility for free meals. There were people on this forum posting about how they had called TJ admissions and were told that anyone could check the box. If you tried to do the right thing and answer honestly you were penalized. That is what I am assuming unless FCPS provides more guidance on how that question was supposed to be interpreted.

You really should have answered yes to at least #2

Not if you are an ethical person.

Answering the actual question that was asked in a factual manner is just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hannah Natanson needs to start reading DCUM

+1
She is a very shallow reporter. To simply parrot the 33% low income figure - which is entirely unbelievable - without any mention of the fact that the question for that highly likely resulted in many non-low income kids replying yes to it - is the best example.

Is anyone actually going to offer any evidence to support this claim?

What do you mean? There is no evidence that could be provided given how FCPS designed this parameter.
They did not require families to show any income info to qualify for the low income category (which got plus points in the application process).
They did not square those replying yes to the free meals question against prior FCPS FARMS status records to try to help confirm anything.
The question was one that anyone could have truthfully (if not entirely honestly in spirit) answered yes to as all families this year were eligible for free meals and many did eat free meals at least some of the time.

Given the reality of FCPS testing data for FARMS it defies belief to think that 1/3 of the class is actually low income. I would happily bet a ton of money on that being false. When free meals for all are gone and FCPS has to resume checking eligibility again this number will plummet like a rock. There will still be some kids but absolutely zero chance it will be 1/3 of the class.

I find it mind boggling that a reporter could parrot this figure without noting it is self reported and based on replies to the “are you eligible for free lunch during a year when all students are eligible for it?” question.

My understanding was they only asked this for private school students whose info they didn't already have.

My child attends an FCPS middle school and applied this year. Here are the two questions that his TJ Application asked:

1. Are you eligible for free meals?
2. Are you currently receiving free meals?

I contacted the TJ Admissions office and they said that they were aware of the issue and that parents could say Yes to Question #1. If your child was actually eating the free meals, they could say yes to #2.

It did not make any sense at the time and it still does not make sense.

Exactly!
As to knowing FCPS did not verify it…at some point someone will spend the money on a FOIA to get that. I have not. But again, I’d be willing to bet my house that they did not verify actual low income status simply because the 33% low income is so ludicrously high.

It’s highly unlikely that a lot of parents misrepresented their incomes on the application. Very unethical.

I disagree. The question was written very poorly. Everyone is eligible for free meals this year and some might be receiving them. DD has had the school lunch the entire year. However, I answered no on both of those questions because I just assumed they referred to low income eligibility for free meals. There were people on this forum posting about how they had called TJ admissions and were told that anyone could check the box. If you tried to do the right thing and answer honestly you were penalized. That is what I am assuming unless FCPS provides more guidance on how that question was supposed to be interpreted.

You really should have answered yes to at least #2

Not if you are an ethical person.

Answering the actual question that was asked in a factual manner is just fine.

Okay, just don’t act like your child was admitted solely on merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp you is turning this into an attack on low income kids - please, that is not what the argument is here. Of COURSE there are some really smart and capable low income kids. Duh. And some of us (me included) even support the 1.5% MS pool allocations and support the bump for being low income.

The ENTIRE point here is whether it is credible that 1/3 (!!!!) of the TJ class is truly low income. This is just not believable. I’ll take your “I was wrong” a year from now though when FCPS uses the same admission formula and there are not more free meals for all and the FARMS figure curiously plummets. This WILL happen. While it may not have been ethical to reply yes to the free meals questions this year people who did were not lying.

The number is obviously somewhere between 0.6% and 33%.

It really depends on how many parents were willing to cheat on the application.

There are many qualified, low-income students and we aren’t “lowering the bar” by giving them access to TJ.

Reading the questions that were posed and responding to them is not cheating.

It was clear that this was a loophole. If parents didn’t take advantage of it, that’s on them.

Sorry, but that’s the honest truth.

This was already debunked numerous times. They already have the info for current students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hannah Natanson needs to start reading DCUM

+1
She is a very shallow reporter. To simply parrot the 33% low income figure - which is entirely unbelievable - without any mention of the fact that the question for that highly likely resulted in many non-low income kids replying yes to it - is the best example.

Is anyone actually going to offer any evidence to support this claim?

What do you mean? There is no evidence that could be provided given how FCPS designed this parameter.
They did not require families to show any income info to qualify for the low income category (which got plus points in the application process).
They did not square those replying yes to the free meals question against prior FCPS FARMS status records to try to help confirm anything.
The question was one that anyone could have truthfully (if not entirely honestly in spirit) answered yes to as all families this year were eligible for free meals and many did eat free meals at least some of the time.

Given the reality of FCPS testing data for FARMS it defies belief to think that 1/3 of the class is actually low income. I would happily bet a ton of money on that being false. When free meals for all are gone and FCPS has to resume checking eligibility again this number will plummet like a rock. There will still be some kids but absolutely zero chance it will be 1/3 of the class.

I find it mind boggling that a reporter could parrot this figure without noting it is self reported and based on replies to the “are you eligible for free lunch during a year when all students are eligible for it?” question.

My understanding was they only asked this for private school students whose info they didn't already have.

My child attends an FCPS middle school and applied this year. Here are the two questions that his TJ Application asked:

1. Are you eligible for free meals?
2. Are you currently receiving free meals?

I contacted the TJ Admissions office and they said that they were aware of the issue and that parents could say Yes to Question #1. If your child was actually eating the free meals, they could say yes to #2.

It did not make any sense at the time and it still does not make sense.

Exactly!
As to knowing FCPS did not verify it…at some point someone will spend the money on a FOIA to get that. I have not. But again, I’d be willing to bet my house that they did not verify actual low income status simply because the 33% low income is so ludicrously high.

It’s highly unlikely that a lot of parents misrepresented their incomes on the application. Very unethical.

I disagree. The question was written very poorly. Everyone is eligible for free meals this year and some might be receiving them. DD has had the school lunch the entire year. However, I answered no on both of those questions because I just assumed they referred to low income eligibility for free meals. There were people on this forum posting about how they had called TJ admissions and were told that anyone could check the box. If you tried to do the right thing and answer honestly you were penalized. That is what I am assuming unless FCPS provides more guidance on how that question was supposed to be interpreted.

You really should have answered yes to at least #2

Not if you are an ethical person.

Answering the actual question that was asked in a factual manner is just fine.

Okay, just don’t act like your child was admitted solely on merit.

Check your privilege! Kids from low income families often don't have access to many of the enrichment opportunities that enable so many to unlock opportunities like TJ. I consider this an attempt to level the playing field.