TJ admissions results out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hannah Natanson needs to start reading DCUM

+1
She is a very shallow reporter. To simply parrot the 33% low income figure - which is entirely unbelievable - without any mention of the fact that the question for that highly likely resulted in many non-low income kids replying yes to it - is the best example.

Is anyone actually going to offer any evidence to support this claim?

What do you mean? There is no evidence that could be provided given how FCPS designed this parameter.
They did not require families to show any income info to qualify for the low income category (which got plus points in the application process).
They did not square those replying yes to the free meals question against prior FCPS FARMS status records to try to help confirm anything.
The question was one that anyone could have truthfully (if not entirely honestly in spirit) answered yes to as all families this year were eligible for free meals and many did eat free meals at least some of the time.

Given the reality of FCPS testing data for FARMS it defies belief to think that 1/3 of the class is actually low income. I would happily bet a ton of money on that being false. When free meals for all are gone and FCPS has to resume checking eligibility again this number will plummet like a rock. There will still be some kids but absolutely zero chance it will be 1/3 of the class.

I find it mind boggling that a reporter could parrot this figure without noting it is self reported and based on replies to the “are you eligible for free lunch during a year when all students are eligible for it?” question.

My understanding was they only asked this for private school students whose info they didn't already have.

My child attends an FCPS middle school and applied this year. Here are the two questions that his TJ Application asked:

1. Are you eligible for free meals?
2. Are you currently receiving free meals?

I contacted the TJ Admissions office and they said that they were aware of the issue and that parents could say Yes to Question #1. If your child was actually eating the free meals, they could say yes to #2.

It did not make any sense at the time and it still does not make sense.

Exactly!
As to knowing FCPS did not verify it…at some point someone will spend the money on a FOIA to get that. I have not. But again, I’d be willing to bet my house that they did not verify actual low income status simply because the 33% low income is so ludicrously high.

It’s highly unlikely that a lot of parents misrepresented their incomes on the application. Very unethical.

I disagree. The question was written very poorly. Everyone is eligible for free meals this year and some might be receiving them. DD has had the school lunch the entire year. However, I answered no on both of those questions because I just assumed they referred to low income eligibility for free meals. There were people on this forum posting about how they had called TJ admissions and were told that anyone could check the box. If you tried to do the right thing and answer honestly you were penalized. That is what I am assuming unless FCPS provides more guidance on how that question was supposed to be interpreted.

You really should have answered yes to at least #2

Not if you are an ethical person.

Answering the actual question that was asked in a factual manner is just fine.

Okay, just don’t act like your child was admitted solely on merit.

Check your privilege! Kids from low income families often don't have access to many of the enrichment opportunities that enable so many to unlock opportunities like TJ. I consider this an attempt to level the playing field.

Right, the people misrepresenting their family’s income are stealing spots from actual low-income students.

That’s why it’s unethical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp you is turning this into an attack on low income kids - please, that is not what the argument is here. Of COURSE there are some really smart and capable low income kids. Duh. And some of us (me included) even support the 1.5% MS pool allocations and support the bump for being low income.

The ENTIRE point here is whether it is credible that 1/3 (!!!!) of the TJ class is truly low income. This is just not believable. I’ll take your “I was wrong” a year from now though when FCPS uses the same admission formula and there are not more free meals for all and the FARMS figure curiously plummets. This WILL happen. While it may not have been ethical to reply yes to the free meals questions this year people who did were not lying.

The number is obviously somewhere between 0.6% and 33%.

It really depends on how many parents were willing to cheat on the application.

There are many qualified, low-income students and we aren’t “lowering the bar” by giving them access to TJ.

Reading the questions that were posed and responding to them is not cheating.

It was clear that this was a loophole. If parents didn’t take advantage of it, that’s on them.

Sorry, but that’s the honest truth.

This was already debunked numerous times. They already have the info for current students.

Where has this been debunked?

FCPS only has data from 2019 and from the answers to the free meals questions. They took parents at their word for the free meals questions because income may have changed since 2019.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pp you is turning this into an attack on low income kids - please, that is not what the argument is here. Of COURSE there are some really smart and capable low income kids. Duh. And some of us (me included) even support the 1.5% MS pool allocations and support the bump for being low income.

The ENTIRE point here is whether it is credible that 1/3 (!!!!) of the TJ class is truly low income. This is just not believable. I’ll take your “I was wrong” a year from now though when FCPS uses the same admission formula and there are not more free meals for all and the FARMS figure curiously plummets. This WILL happen. While it may not have been ethical to reply yes to the free meals questions this year people who did were not lying.

The number is obviously somewhere between 0.6% and 33%.

It really depends on how many parents were willing to cheat on the application.

There are many qualified, low-income students and we aren’t “lowering the bar” by giving them access to TJ.

Reading the questions that were posed and responding to them is not cheating.

It was clear that this was a loophole. If parents didn’t take advantage of it, that’s on them.

Sorry, but that’s the honest truth.

This was already debunked numerous times. They already have the info for current students.

Where has this been debunked?

FCPS only has data from 2019 and from the answers to the free meals questions. They took parents at their word for the free meals questions because income may have changed since 2019.

Ignore the troll. Every time this discussion comes up, she says the same thing claiming FCPS has data on citizen income. Same discussion starting page 16. She was called out. But she is back with the same disinformation. Wash.Rinse.Repeat. The very Trumpian approach to propagate a lie. Shame on you PP.

[Anonymous]

1. They may have 2019 and earlier info for FCPS families, but they wouldn't have that data for APS, LCPS, or other non-FCPS families. If every single kid who attends a prep center were instructed to check 'yes' to those questions, then they're counting 90-100 UMC LCPS kids as low income. FCPS doesn't care, though, as long as they can get a good press release.

2. They didn't collect income data during the pandemic, since families previously above the income cutoff may have had a loss of income or a loss of jobs from the pandemic. This unfortunately makes a very large, exploitable loophole for UMC families. Undoubtedly, the free meals question allowed some portion of mediocre, higher SES kids to leapfrog the highly gifted ones at the "TJ Feeder" Centers. If every applicant has nearly a 4.0 and decent essays, the free points for checking the ED boxes would make a huge difference.

3. There surely are some low income kids who are well qualified for TJ. The kids who are well qualified for TJ don't need a substantial number of bonus points allocated to them, especially since every MS has a 1.5% allocation. Giving them the extra points is akin to saying that they aren't qualified enough to be picked on their own merits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1. They may have 2019 and earlier info for FCPS families, but they wouldn't have that data for APS, LCPS, or other non-FCPS families. If every single kid who attends a prep center were instructed to check 'yes' to those questions, then they're counting 90-100 UMC LCPS kids as low income. FCPS doesn't care, though, as long as they can get a good press release.

2. They didn't collect income data during the pandemic, since families previously above the income cutoff may have had a loss of income or a loss of jobs from the pandemic. This unfortunately makes a very large, exploitable loophole for UMC families. Undoubtedly, the free meals question allowed some portion of mediocre, higher SES kids to leapfrog the highly gifted ones at the "TJ Feeder" Centers. If every applicant has nearly a 4.0 and decent essays, the free points for checking the ED boxes would make a huge difference.

3. There surely are some low income kids who are well qualified for TJ. The kids who are well qualified for TJ don't need a substantial number of bonus points allocated to them, especially since every MS has a 1.5% allocation. Giving them the extra points is akin to saying that they aren't qualified enough to be picked on their own merits.

Thank you for taking time to pull this together. Unless there is a specific contradiction from a FCPS press release, this is the best understanding of the facts as understood by most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hannah Natanson needs to start reading DCUM

+1
She is a very shallow reporter. To simply parrot the 33% low income figure - which is entirely unbelievable - without any mention of the fact that the question for that highly likely resulted in many non-low income kids replying yes to it - is the best example.

Is anyone actually going to offer any evidence to support this claim?

What do you mean? There is no evidence that could be provided given how FCPS designed this parameter.
They did not require families to show any income info to qualify for the low income category (which got plus points in the application process).
They did not square those replying yes to the free meals question against prior FCPS FARMS status records to try to help confirm anything.
The question was one that anyone could have truthfully (if not entirely honestly in spirit) answered yes to as all families this year were eligible for free meals and many did eat free meals at least some of the time.

Given the reality of FCPS testing data for FARMS it defies belief to think that 1/3 of the class is actually low income. I would happily bet a ton of money on that being false. When free meals for all are gone and FCPS has to resume checking eligibility again this number will plummet like a rock. There will still be some kids but absolutely zero chance it will be 1/3 of the class.

I find it mind boggling that a reporter could parrot this figure without noting it is self reported and based on replies to the “are you eligible for free lunch during a year when all students are eligible for it?” question.

My understanding was they only asked this for private school students whose info they didn't already have.

My child attends an FCPS middle school and applied this year. Here are the two questions that his TJ Application asked:

1. Are you eligible for free meals?
2. Are you currently receiving free meals?

I contacted the TJ Admissions office and they said that they were aware of the issue and that parents could say Yes to Question #1. If your child was actually eating the free meals, they could say yes to #2.

It did not make any sense at the time and it still does not make sense.

Exactly!
As to knowing FCPS did not verify it…at some point someone will spend the money on a FOIA to get that. I have not. But again, I’d be willing to bet my house that they did not verify actual low income status simply because the 33% low income is so ludicrously high.

It’s highly unlikely that a lot of parents misrepresented their incomes on the application. Very unethical.

I disagree. The question was written very poorly. Everyone is eligible for free meals this year and some might be receiving them. DD has had the school lunch the entire year. However, I answered no on both of those questions because I just assumed they referred to low income eligibility for free meals. There were people on this forum posting about how they had called TJ admissions and were told that anyone could check the box. If you tried to do the right thing and answer honestly you were penalized. That is what I am assuming unless FCPS provides more guidance on how that question was supposed to be interpreted.

You really should have answered yes to at least #2

Not if you are an ethical person.

Answering the actual question that was asked in a factual manner is just fine.

Okay, just don’t act like your child was admitted solely on merit.

Check your privilege! Kids from low income families often don't have access to many of the enrichment opportunities that enable so many to unlock opportunities like TJ. I consider this an attempt to level the playing field.

Check your reading comprehension. I was referring to the high income families who checked yes. I have no issue with true low income families who do not have access to as many resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1. They may have 2019 and earlier info for FCPS families, but they wouldn't have that data for APS, LCPS, or other non-FCPS families. If every single kid who attends a prep center were instructed to check 'yes' to those questions, then they're counting 90-100 UMC LCPS kids as low income. FCPS doesn't care, though, as long as they can get a good press release.

2. They didn't collect income data during the pandemic, since families previously above the income cutoff may have had a loss of income or a loss of jobs from the pandemic. This unfortunately makes a very large, exploitable loophole for UMC families. Undoubtedly, the free meals question allowed some portion of mediocre, higher SES kids to leapfrog the highly gifted ones at the "TJ Feeder" Centers. If every applicant has nearly a 4.0 and decent essays, the free points for checking the ED boxes would make a huge difference.

3. There surely are some low income kids who are well qualified for TJ. The kids who are well qualified for TJ don't need a substantial number of bonus points allocated to them, especially since every MS has a 1.5% allocation. Giving them the extra points is akin to saying that they aren't qualified enough to be picked on their own merits.

This is a great summary. Can you please forward to the NAACP and the Washington Post? The TJ admissions office was a terrible steward over the admissions process this year and should not be allowed to get away with it.

[Anonymous]

Maybe TJ admissions had the MS counselors verify ED. They’d have better access to info.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe TJ admissions had the MS counselors verify ED. They’d have better access to info.

🙄
Maybe they petted unicorns while they did the applications. Just stop. No. No one verified this. How do we know? Simply because it is not at all plausible period full stop that a whopping 1/3 of the new students are low income. It isn’t.

Yes FCPS’s press release looks good this year (to anyone who does not know about the self reporting) but it will look really bad next year when that number is WAY below 1/3 - or likely even next school year when the FARMS rate of TJ gets published using the normal way of reporting that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe TJ admissions had the MS counselors verify ED. They’d have better access to info.

🙄
Maybe they petted unicorns while they did the applications. Just stop. No. No one verified this. How do we know? Simply because it is not at all plausible period full stop that a whopping 1/3 of the new students are low income. It isn’t.

Yes FCPS’s press release looks good this year (to anyone who does not know about the self reporting) but it will look really bad next year when that number is WAY below 1/3 - or likely even next school year when the FARMS rate of TJ gets published using the normal way of reporting that.

The % will be more than 0.6% so I’ll still call it a win.

Too bad there are so many unethical families in FCPS who would take a spot from a kid from an low-income family.

[Anonymous]

is there any parent contacted the admission office to ask whether they verified the free lunch information?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe TJ admissions had the MS counselors verify ED. They’d have better access to info.

🙄
Maybe they petted unicorns while they did the applications. Just stop. No. No one verified this. How do we know? Simply because it is not at all plausible period full stop that a whopping 1/3 of the new students are low income. It isn’t.

Yes FCPS’s press release looks good this year (to anyone who does not know about the self reporting) but it will look really bad next year when that number is WAY below 1/3 - or likely even next school year when the FARMS rate of TJ gets published using the normal way of reporting that.

Or maybe not. Maybe they won’t even bother to check next when free meals go away. They’ll want to keep the 1/3 number so they don’t look bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe TJ admissions had the MS counselors verify ED. They’d have better access to info.

🙄
Maybe they petted unicorns while they did the applications. Just stop. No. No one verified this. How do we know? Simply because it is not at all plausible period full stop that a whopping 1/3 of the new students are low income. It isn’t.

Yes FCPS’s press release looks good this year (to anyone who does not know about the self reporting) but it will look really bad next year when that number is WAY below 1/3 - or likely even next school year when the FARMS rate of TJ gets published using the normal way of reporting that.

Or maybe not. Maybe they won’t even bother to check next when free meals go away. They’ll want to keep the 1/3 number so they don’t look bad.

You are right. They will need something to hang their hat on.

Asians are already creeping up in admission stats. 54% last year to 60% this year. They will be back to 70% in 2 years time as families spread out to maximize likelihood of securing admission. The whole premise of the reform to boost racial diversity will be under water. The only claim then will be the 1/3 (sic) of low-income students admitted.

[Anonymous]

Wealthy families spreading out is a good thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wealthy families spreading out is a good thing.

Renting for 2 years is not spreading out.