APS: Think the "no move" campaign is going to work?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dumb question, because I just started paying attention after that thread blew up on AEM -- why can the Latinx families living near Key not send their kids to a neighborhood school at Key if a walkable school with aftercare is important? Wouldn't Key still be there? Why is the immersion part so important? Plenty of other Latinx kids in Arlington don't go to immersion schools/would have one closer if it moved somewhere else. What am I missing?

The achievement gap is much lower for immersion and studies show that Hispanic kids do better over their school career if they do immersion In elementary (just the messenger here)

Regardless of the research, not all native-Spanish-speaking families want their kids in immersion. Some want them in an English-dominant school thinking it will get them up to speed faster. This was referenced in some meeting where staff mentioned they'd had conversations w/ Spanish-speaking families about why they don't apply to immersion (presumably they did that outreach because they can't fill the 50% native-Spanish quota) and the main answers were not believing it's better for their kids and wanting a school closer to home. Moving Key closer to the concentration of Spanish-speakers at least helps address the 2nd reason.

The Key pop's concern is that they will lose too many students if it moves because of families for whom proximity is more important than immersion. The concern seems overblown. Yes, they will likely lose some but will ideally pull in more in the lower grades so it would just be a few years of smaller upper grades. At the school board meeting, it sounded like staff was aware of the concern about retaining the immersion faculty and perhaps they could allow for smaller classes in order to keep staff on board during that adjustment period. They do need to be clearer about that.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dumb question, because I just started paying attention after that thread blew up on AEM -- why can the Latinx families living near Key not send their kids to a neighborhood school at Key if a walkable school with aftercare is important? Wouldn't Key still be there? Why is the immersion part so important? Plenty of other Latinx kids in Arlington don't go to immersion schools/would have one closer if it moved somewhere else. What am I missing?

The achievement gap is much lower for immersion and studies show that Hispanic kids do better over their school career if they do immersion In elementary (just the messenger here)

Well, looking at the data now, there are six APS schools with the same or higher percentage of Hispanic kids than Key, several of which have higher free lunch percentages than Key. It seems like a tough argument to make -- I get that the kids at Key now may be disadvantaged relative to the status quo, but the people who are against the move are talking like they are being singled out because they are disadvantaged, which is hardly the case (there are plenty of other disadvantaged kids in Arlington, some of whom might benefit from this move....for example kids living near Barrett, which is close to ATS). I don't get how this is considered racist.

It isn't racist. They're just playing the race card and using the Spanish-speaking families in their community as pawns in their advocacy to stay put. When it's time for the boundary decisions, let's see how much they talk about demographics and how they talk about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dumb question, because I just started paying attention after that thread blew up on AEM -- why can the Latinx families living near Key not send their kids to a neighborhood school at Key if a walkable school with aftercare is important? Wouldn't Key still be there? Why is the immersion part so important? Plenty of other Latinx kids in Arlington don't go to immersion schools/would have one closer if it moved somewhere else. What am I missing?

The achievement gap is much lower for immersion and studies show that Hispanic kids do better over their school career if they do immersion In elementary (just the messenger here)

OK, thanks

APS does know that once a student is sufficiently proficient in English (regardless of their native language), they begin to catch-up and do well relative to their non-ELL classmates. So, it makes sense that kids in immersion are becoming more proficient in English AND learning content in their native tongue -- thereby not being so far behind the whole way through.

Immersion is still a choice and therefore a "self-selected" program like people keep pointing out about ATS. It's the language acquisition that makes immersion beneficial in regard to the achievement gap. The Key community is arguing that all of its instruction and supportive services and its "welcoming environment for immigrants" will be denied to all of the families who cannot or do not want to make the move. The immersion instruction will be gone if they don't move with the program; but the welcoming environment already exists in our neighborhood schools in this County and the supportive services and food pantry and whatever else can be implemented at Key as a neighborhood school, too. Key acts like no other community provides for its minority students or for its poor families. That's not true in the least.

So, the answer to your question is: They CAN go to a neighborhood school at Key. There is absolutely NO reason they CAN'T.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If a family lives in an affordable housing complex it will be managed by AHC or APAH and have its own after school set up. I need to dig up the data on % use of extended day. The bus per am and pm usage alone shows the argument about walkers is either non existent or very very small.

Really? How does that work?

There are after school programs run in the building— people volunteer to help the kids with homework, etc. I’m not sure, but I think it’s free, but only open to residents of the building. Volunteers or the program coordinators pick the kids up from their bus stop.
I know this is the case for Woodbury park and at least one other building run by ahc.

Since English proficiency is the key to addressing the achievement gap, these programs should be focusing on that. There are many ELL students who are not in immersion for many reasons (don't want it, prefer to go to a closer school, are not native SPanish speakers but still ELL, etc.) and they need and deserve the English language instruction they need to catch-up to their peers. It isn't a lack of intelligence, it's a language barrier.

[Anonymous]

Not a parent who will be impacted, but I keep wondering WHY APS doesn't know how many Key families would move if it moved to the ATS location. It seems pretty darn easy to survey the current K-4 families and ask. They aren't committed to whatever they choose, but APS could at least have a ballpark number. That's one piece of data that makes me feel like they are being a bit sloppy and have just dug into this position, regardless of whether this whole cascade is the right one.

ASFS is vastly overcrowded, and I agree a building is needed, but APS is claiming not to know how many kids will stay behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not a parent who will be impacted, but I keep wondering WHY APS doesn't know how many Key families would move if it moved to the ATS location. It seems pretty darn easy to survey the current K-4 families and ask. They aren't committed to whatever they choose, but APS could at least have a ballpark number. That's one piece of data that makes me feel like they are being a bit sloppy and have just dug into this position, regardless of whether this whole cascade is the right one.

ASFS is vastly overcrowded, and I agree a building is needed, but APS is claiming not to know how many kids will stay behind.

They could survey the current Key families- but there is good reason to think they won't get very accurate information. Right now the Key families have an incentive to say they won't move. When they realize that their choice is actually to move or to go to their neighborhood school I suspect there will be different answers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not a parent who will be impacted, but I keep wondering WHY APS doesn't know how many Key families would move if it moved to the ATS location. It seems pretty darn easy to survey the current K-4 families and ask. They aren't committed to whatever they choose, but APS could at least have a ballpark number. That's one piece of data that makes me feel like they are being a bit sloppy and have just dug into this position, regardless of whether this whole cascade is the right one.

ASFS is vastly overcrowded, and I agree a building is needed, but APS is claiming not to know how many kids will stay behind.

The problem with doing a survey now is that you will get parents saying what they think will get them the best result vs. a real picture. If you want to keep Key on Key and they ask if you will move with the program, you say no, right? That doesn't mean that you won't move when the time comes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not a parent who will be impacted, but I keep wondering WHY APS doesn't know how many Key families would move if it moved to the ATS location. It seems pretty darn easy to survey the current K-4 families and ask. They aren't committed to whatever they choose, but APS could at least have a ballpark number. That's one piece of data that makes me feel like they are being a bit sloppy and have just dug into this position, regardless of whether this whole cascade is the right one.

ASFS is vastly overcrowded, and I agree a building is needed, but APS is claiming not to know how many kids will stay behind.

That is more important for the boundary discussion. Maybe they will...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not a parent who will be impacted, but I keep wondering WHY APS doesn't know how many Key families would move if it moved to the ATS location. It seems pretty darn easy to survey the current K-4 families and ask. They aren't committed to whatever they choose, but APS could at least have a ballpark number. That's one piece of data that makes me feel like they are being a bit sloppy and have just dug into this position, regardless of whether this whole cascade is the right one.

ASFS is vastly overcrowded, and I agree a building is needed, but APS is claiming not to know how many kids will stay behind.

They could survey the current Key families- but there is good reason to think they won't get very accurate information. Right now the Key families have an incentive to say they won't move. When they realize that their choice is actually to move or to go to their neighborhood school I suspect there will be different answers.

But they also have an incentive to say they will move, because they want to look committed to the program. But then in actual, day-to-day practice, going to a school so far away will turn out to be a problem.

[Anonymous]

Key parents don’t need to look committed to the program. The key argument is that the immersion program is going to be irreparably harmed by moving the school. For that argument to be true, parents need to look more committed to the location than the program itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not a parent who will be impacted, but I keep wondering WHY APS doesn't know how many Key families would move if it moved to the ATS location. It seems pretty darn easy to survey the current K-4 families and ask. They aren't committed to whatever they choose, but APS could at least have a ballpark number. That's one piece of data that makes me feel like they are being a bit sloppy and have just dug into this position, regardless of whether this whole cascade is the right one.

ASFS is vastly overcrowded, and I agree a building is needed, but APS is claiming not to know how many kids will stay behind.

The problem with doing a survey now is that you will get parents saying what they think will get them the best result vs. a real picture. If you want to keep Key on Key and they ask if you will move with the program, you say no, right? That doesn't mean that you won't move when the time comes.

Also, some parents apparently don't understand the move, that there will be transportation and that the students currently at ATS are moving out. I know it sounds ridiculous; but some parents do not realize their kids will get a bus to school and think they are being added to the students at ATS. The strong AEM Key advocates keep talking ABOUT and TO these families to garner support and petition signatures; but apparently aren't doing much talking WITH them to make sure they know what really will happen.

So, if you ask parents now, they may say "no" but when they realize these other things, they may say "yes."

What APS DOES know is that for every student outside the Key/ASFS attendance zone transferred into Key, one neighborhood seat opens regardless of how many current students opt to stay at a neighborhood Key. I don't know the exact numbers; but 260 students currently attend Key from outside what the neighborhood attendance zone is, then a minimum of 260 seats open up when those students relocate with immersion to ATS. Even if they drop out, they go back to their own neighborhood schools and do not keep occupying a seat in the new Key neighborhood school. It is most unlikely that nobody within the attendance zone will move with the program; so a lot more seats than just those 260 become available for neighborhood seats. Compare that to not moving the program: zero neighborhood seats open up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not a parent who will be impacted, but I keep wondering WHY APS doesn't know how many Key families would move if it moved to the ATS location. It seems pretty darn easy to survey the current K-4 families and ask. They aren't committed to whatever they choose, but APS could at least have a ballpark number. That's one piece of data that makes me feel like they are being a bit sloppy and have just dug into this position, regardless of whether this whole cascade is the right one.

ASFS is vastly overcrowded, and I agree a building is needed, but APS is claiming not to know how many kids will stay behind.

The problem with doing a survey now is that you will get parents saying what they think will get them the best result vs. a real picture. If you want to keep Key on Key and they ask if you will move with the program, you say no, right? That doesn't mean that you won't move when the time comes.

Also, some parents apparently don't understand the move, that there will be transportation and that the students currently at ATS are moving out. I know it sounds ridiculous; but some parents do not realize their kids will get a bus to school and think they are being added to the students at ATS. The strong AEM Key advocates keep talking ABOUT and TO these families to garner support and petition signatures; but apparently aren't doing much talking WITH them to make sure they know what really will happen.

So, if you ask parents now, they may say "no" but when they realize these other things, they may say "yes."

What APS DOES know is that for every student outside the Key/ASFS attendance zone transferred into Key, one neighborhood seat opens regardless of how many current students opt to stay at a neighborhood Key. I don't know the exact numbers; but 260 students currently attend Key from outside what the neighborhood attendance zone is, then a minimum of 260 seats open up when those students relocate with immersion to ATS. Even if they drop out, they go back to their own neighborhood schools and do not keep occupying a seat in the new Key neighborhood school. It is most unlikely that nobody within the attendance zone will move with the program; so a lot more seats than just those 260 become available for neighborhood seats. Compare that to not moving the program: zero neighborhood seats open up.

Last year's transfer report had 271 kids at Key from the ASFS zone. If every single one of those kids drops immersion and goes to neighborhood Key, there are still 382 additional seats for neighborhood before the permanent capacity is full. If you use the existing trailers it's more like 430.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not a parent who will be impacted, but I keep wondering WHY APS doesn't know how many Key families would move if it moved to the ATS location. It seems pretty darn easy to survey the current K-4 families and ask. They aren't committed to whatever they choose, but APS could at least have a ballpark number. That's one piece of data that makes me feel like they are being a bit sloppy and have just dug into this position, regardless of whether this whole cascade is the right one.

ASFS is vastly overcrowded, and I agree a building is needed, but APS is claiming not to know how many kids will stay behind.

The problem with doing a survey now is that you will get parents saying what they think will get them the best result vs. a real picture. If you want to keep Key on Key and they ask if you will move with the program, you say no, right? That doesn't mean that you won't move when the time comes.

Also, some parents apparently don't understand the move, that there will be transportation and that the students currently at ATS are moving out. I know it sounds ridiculous; but some parents do not realize their kids will get a bus to school and think they are being added to the students at ATS. The strong AEM Key advocates keep talking ABOUT and TO these families to garner support and petition signatures; but apparently aren't doing much talking WITH them to make sure they know what really will happen.

So, if you ask parents now, they may say "no" but when they realize these other things, they may say "yes."

What APS DOES know is that for every student outside the Key/ASFS attendance zone transferred into Key, one neighborhood seat opens regardless of how many current students opt to stay at a neighborhood Key. I don't know the exact numbers; but 260 students currently attend Key from outside what the neighborhood attendance zone is, then a minimum of 260 seats open up when those students relocate with immersion to ATS. Even if they drop out, they go back to their own neighborhood schools and do not keep occupying a seat in the new Key neighborhood school. It is most unlikely that nobody within the attendance zone will move with the program; so a lot more seats than just those 260 become available for neighborhood seats. Compare that to not moving the program: zero neighborhood seats open up.

There is a lot of misinformation that those who oppose it are using to advance their arguments. One person fighting the McKinley move because it would move them to Ashlawn objected because they didn't want their child going from one overcrowded school to another, citing the % over capacity numbers of current Ashlawn. Completely missing that there is a step in-between -- redoing boundaries so the school WON'T be overcrowded.

[Anonymous]

Someone is promising to post pictures of the superior maps on AEM shortly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Someone is promising to post pictures of the superior maps on AEM shortly.

Thanks! That will be worth a look.