Affirmative Action should be income-based, not race-based

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What makes you people so sure your kid would have been next on the list? At the cut line, there are hundreds of applicants who are very close in qualifications. None of them are undeserving but none of them are entitled to a spot either. There are other schools and if your kid is all you think he/she is, he/she will do well with a degree from any of them. It’s only the parents who can’t imagine life without Harvard or Yale or Princeton or Stanford.

Exactly.

Nobody ever said they were entitled. But in many cases their grades and scores would have taken them in that direction, but AA policies instead favored lower-scoring blacks. So why are black kids with lower grades ENTITLED? Any why can't the poorer-scoring black kids go to some other school? You people seem to be saying that 3rd tier universities are good enough for poor white Billy from the housing projects, even with his A- average, and yet Daeshanda should go to Ivy with her B+. Why not just turn it around: Let the better student go to the better school, and the so-so student go to the lesser university?

As soon as we have a level playing field that'd be fine. But today in 2019 we still have white supremacists proudly marching the streets. We have a POTUS who hesitates to disavow them. We have harsh backlash to BLM. We have people still worshipping Confederate war heros and the flag. We have systematic racism / implicit bias.

We are not ready for that. If a handful of white people have a slightly less optimal outcome? That's a price I'm willing to pay. Sorry, Billy.

I'm not going to argue with you about the POTUS disavowing the fringe element of white supremacists, since he clearly did that and you in your liberal fog refuse to acknowledge it.

But, to get this straight, you say that you are willing to send all the Billys (poor white kids from the housing projects who, despite their hardships, managed to get all As) to community college or a lesser school because that is a price YOU are willing to pay? Such a liberal. You guys are willing to pay for anything as long as it is not you personally paying the price. So generous.

All I can say is thank god that my parents went to college before AA was in effect. They both had after-school jobs that got that home at MIDNIGHT to help pay the family's bills, and still managed to ace their college admissions tests. I shudder to think how different their lives would have been if they had been shut out of college because Dashanda, who did much worse academically, was seen as deserving a chance - and the whites weren't.

I said he HESITATED to disavow. Which was 100% accurate.

Why do you think that every.single.poor.white.kid won't go to college because they are "losing their spots" to URMs? How many Billys do you think there are? How many kids are actually affecting by AA? What is the real-life impact? Not another hypothetical med student that doesn't exist. You'll need to account for all of the rich white kids who scored a tiny bit higher than Billy but also didn't get in. And all of the URMs who did score higher than him.

I am perfectly fine if my kids go to a "lesser" school (even community college) if that means more URMs can go to an elite college. They will be fine.

I'm SO SURE you will be fine if you kids, who earned all As, are relegated to community college (you should walk around there.....kids are carrying remedial English books and Alegebra I books), so that Dashanda with her Bs can go to a good university.

P.S Maybe you should ask your kids if they'd be willing to go community college instead of a good four-year university so Dashanda can take their slots. Maybe they feel differently about your being so willing to sacrifice their futures for your liberal ideals that punish whites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The vast majority of spots at competitive colleges will go to white kids. They will continue on their easy path of upward mobility. Why are you so focused on the handful of spots that go to URMs? What about other spots at those colleges that go to other kids with lesser grades? Don't hear you complaining once about them.

+1 I recently talked to a white acquaintance who said her 13 year old daughter is interested in going to medical school, but "she probably won't get in because affirmative action will give all the spots to blacks". She has her excuses ready 10 years in advance! <sarcasm> After all, affirmative action is the only possible reason why she couldn't get in medical school <\sarcasm>

No, your acquaintance probably read the AAMC charts that showed how difficult it is for whites to get in. (And if she's Asian, it's even worse.) It's actually quite discouraging to see how blacks with a B average get into medical school and whites with an A- average have to kiss their dream of becoming a doctor goodbye - unless they go to some crap Caribbean school.

When I meet a white doctor who recently graduated, I know how smart he must be. He had all the odds stacked against him, and still he made it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The vast majority of spots at competitive colleges will go to white kids. They will continue on their easy path of upward mobility. Why are you so focused on the handful of spots that go to URMs? What about other spots at those colleges that go to other kids with lesser grades? Don't hear you complaining once about them.

+1 I recently talked to a white acquaintance who said her 13 year old daughter is interested in going to medical school, but "she probably won't get in because affirmative action will give all the spots to blacks". She has her excuses ready 10 years in advance! <sarcasm> After all, affirmative action is the only possible reason why she couldn't get in medical school <\sarcasm>

No, your acquaintance probably read the AAMC charts that showed how difficult it is for whites to get in. (And if she's Asian, it's even worse.) It's actually quite discouraging to see how blacks with a B average get into medical school and whites with an A- average have to kiss their dream of becoming a doctor goodbye - unless they go to some crap Caribbean school.

When I meet a white doctor who recently graduated, I know how smart he must be. He had all the odds stacked against him, and still he made it.

No my acquaintance is an idiot. There are 3% fewer slots for white applicants because of AA.

[Anonymous]

For those who think that black doctors don't face discrimination, check this article out.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-care-news/articles/2018-04-11/report-despite-physician-salary-increases-wage-gaps-still-exist

with the key quote:

"Among black physicians, black male doctors make an average of $50,000 less per year than white male doctors. And black female doctors make almost $100,000 less than black male doctors. "

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those who think that black doctors don't face discrimination, check this article out.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-care-news/articles/2018-04-11/report-despite-physician-salary-increases-wage-gaps-still-exist

with the key quote:

"Among black physicians, black male doctors make an average of $50,000 less per year than white male doctors. And black female doctors make almost $100,000 less than black male doctors. "

Wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What makes you people so sure your kid would have been next on the list? At the cut line, there are hundreds of applicants who are very close in qualifications. None of them are undeserving but none of them are entitled to a spot either. There are other schools and if your kid is all you think he/she is, he/she will do well with a degree from any of them. It’s only the parents who can’t imagine life without Harvard or Yale or Princeton or Stanford.

Exactly.

Nobody ever said they were entitled. But in many cases their grades and scores would have taken them in that direction, but AA policies instead favored lower-scoring blacks. So why are black kids with lower grades ENTITLED? Any why can't the poorer-scoring black kids go to some other school? You people seem to be saying that 3rd tier universities are good enough for poor white Billy from the housing projects, even with his A- average, and yet Daeshanda should go to Ivy with her B+. Why not just turn it around: Let the better student go to the better school, and the so-so student go to the lesser university?

As soon as we have a level playing field that'd be fine. But today in 2019 we still have white supremacists proudly marching the streets. We have a POTUS who hesitates to disavow them. We have harsh backlash to BLM. We have people still worshipping Confederate war heros and the flag. We have systematic racism / implicit bias.

We are not ready for that. If a handful of white people have a slightly less optimal outcome? That's a price I'm willing to pay. Sorry, Billy.

I'm not going to argue with you about the POTUS disavowing the fringe element of white supremacists, since he clearly did that and you in your liberal fog refuse to acknowledge it.

But, to get this straight, you say that you are willing to send all the Billys (poor white kids from the housing projects who, despite their hardships, managed to get all As) to community college or a lesser school because that is a price YOU are willing to pay? Such a liberal. You guys are willing to pay for anything as long as it is not you personally paying the price. So generous.

All I can say is thank god that my parents went to college before AA was in effect. They both had after-school jobs that got that home at MIDNIGHT to help pay the family's bills, and still managed to ace their college admissions tests. I shudder to think how different their lives would have been if they had been shut out of college because Dashanda, who did much worse academically, was seen as deserving a chance - and the whites weren't.

I said he HESITATED to disavow. Which was 100% accurate.

Why do you think that every.single.poor.white.kid won't go to college because they are "losing their spots" to URMs? How many Billys do you think there are? How many kids are actually affecting by AA? What is the real-life impact? Not another hypothetical med student that doesn't exist. You'll need to account for all of the rich white kids who scored a tiny bit higher than Billy but also didn't get in. And all of the URMs who did score higher than him.

I am perfectly fine if my kids go to a "lesser" school (even community college) if that means more URMs can go to an elite college. They will be fine.

I'm SO SURE you will be fine if you kids, who earned all As, are relegated to community college (you should walk around there.....kids are carrying remedial English books and Alegebra I books), so that Dashanda with her Bs can go to a good university.

P.S Maybe you should ask your kids if they'd be willing to go community college instead of a good four-year university so Dashanda can take their slots. Maybe they feel differently about your being so willing to sacrifice their futures for your liberal ideals that punish whites.

IMO the only downside of community college is not having the quintessential college experience (dorms, parties, etc.), but for jobs, etc. my kids would be fine. In fact, two very successful people in my family (from poor families) both started in community college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who think that black doctors don't face discrimination, check this article out.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-care-news/articles/2018-04-11/report-despite-physician-salary-increases-wage-gaps-still-exist

with the key quote:

"Among black physicians, black male doctors make an average of $50,000 less per year than white male doctors. And black female doctors make almost $100,000 less than black male doctors. "

Wow.

Now, do doctor's income by medical schools. See if there is a correlation, I suspect that white male doctors who graduate from Harvard make more than those who graduate from a state medical school. And, a doctor who graduates from a more prestigious state medical school will make more than one from a less so one.
I'm guessing that Secretary Ben Carson made far more than average at Johns Hopkins. He was a pediatric neurosurgeon.

As for black female doctors, could it be the same reason that women make less than men across the board? Because they take more time off for their families? Wonder if this is changing for younger women?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
As for black female doctors, could it be the same reason that women make less than men across the board? Because they take more time off for their families? Wonder if this is changing for younger women?

But why would black female doctors make *much* less than white female doctors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What makes you people so sure your kid would have been next on the list? At the cut line, there are hundreds of applicants who are very close in qualifications. None of them are undeserving but none of them are entitled to a spot either. There are other schools and if your kid is all you think he/she is, he/she will do well with a degree from any of them. It’s only the parents who can’t imagine life without Harvard or Yale or Princeton or Stanford.

Exactly.

Nobody ever said they were entitled. But in many cases their grades and scores would have taken them in that direction, but AA policies instead favored lower-scoring blacks. So why are black kids with lower grades ENTITLED? Any why can't the poorer-scoring black kids go to some other school? You people seem to be saying that 3rd tier universities are good enough for poor white Billy from the housing projects, even with his A- average, and yet Daeshanda should go to Ivy with her B+. Why not just turn it around: Let the better student go to the better school, and the so-so student go to the lesser university?

As soon as we have a level playing field that'd be fine. But today in 2019 we still have white supremacists proudly marching the streets. We have a POTUS who hesitates to disavow them. We have harsh backlash to BLM. We have people still worshipping Confederate war heros and the flag. We have systematic racism / implicit bias.

We are not ready for that. If a handful of white people have a slightly less optimal outcome? That's a price I'm willing to pay. Sorry, Billy.

I'm not going to argue with you about the POTUS disavowing the fringe element of white supremacists, since he clearly did that and you in your liberal fog refuse to acknowledge it.

But, to get this straight, you say that you are willing to send all the Billys (poor white kids from the housing projects who, despite their hardships, managed to get all As) to community college or a lesser school because that is a price YOU are willing to pay? Such a liberal. You guys are willing to pay for anything as long as it is not you personally paying the price. So generous.

All I can say is thank god that my parents went to college before AA was in effect. They both had after-school jobs that got that home at MIDNIGHT to help pay the family's bills, and still managed to ace their college admissions tests. I shudder to think how different their lives would have been if they had been shut out of college because Dashanda, who did much worse academically, was seen as deserving a chance - and the whites weren't.

I said he HESITATED to disavow. Which was 100% accurate.

Why do you think that every.single.poor.white.kid won't go to college because they are "losing their spots" to URMs? How many Billys do you think there are? How many kids are actually affecting by AA? What is the real-life impact? Not another hypothetical med student that doesn't exist. You'll need to account for all of the rich white kids who scored a tiny bit higher than Billy but also didn't get in. And all of the URMs who did score higher than him.

I am perfectly fine if my kids go to a "lesser" school (even community college) if that means more URMs can go to an elite college. They will be fine.

I'm SO SURE you will be fine if you kids, who earned all As, are relegated to community college (you should walk around there.....kids are carrying remedial English books and Alegebra I books), so that Dashanda with her Bs can go to a good university.

P.S Maybe you should ask your kids if they'd be willing to go community college instead of a good four-year university so Dashanda can take their slots. Maybe they feel differently about your being so willing to sacrifice their futures for your liberal ideals that punish whites.

IMO the only downside of community college is not having the quintessential college experience (dorms, parties, etc.), but for jobs, etc. my kids would be fine. In fact, two very successful people in my family (from poor families) both started in community college.

^^
Plus...still waiting for a reply to this....

"How many Billys do you think there are? How many kids are actually affecting by AA? What is the real-life impact? Not another hypothetical med student that doesn't exist. You'll need to account for all of the rich white kids who scored a tiny bit higher than Billy but also didn't get in. And all of the URMs who did score higher than him. "

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daeshanda is going to be discriminated against by white people all her life because of her name. Some of them will see her name, go straight to their stereotype and trash her resume without giving her education or qualifications any consideration. Nobody is ever going to do that to Billy.

Give me a break. Daeshanda has the almost-sure option of a federal job where hiring is clearly based on racial preferences.

And they make up how many jobs? What % of all jobs?

DP: you are exaggerating a bit too much...if the name Daeshanda is such an obstacle, she could just change it. Millions of immigrants do it, and they do very well despite the even more pronounced biases and obstacles.

Yeah. My uncle had to change his name because companies weren't hiring Jews. (It was well known. This was post-WWII and antisemitism was rampant in this country.) He went on to become the VP of his company.

Yup.

Race-obsessed Americans are quite a group, always looking for excuse after excuse instead of stating the obvious: current admission policies are racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those who think that black doctors don't face discrimination, check this article out.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-care-news/articles/2018-04-11/report-despite-physician-salary-increases-wage-gaps-still-exist

with the key quote:

"Among black physicians, black male doctors make an average of $50,000 less per year than white male doctors. And black female doctors make almost $100,000 less than black male doctors. "

This is another good argument for affirmative action. Because black physicians earn so much less, we can cut the cost of medical care by having more black doctors

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The vast majority of spots at competitive colleges will go to white kids. They will continue on their easy path of upward mobility. Why are you so focused on the handful of spots that go to URMs? What about other spots at those colleges that go to other kids with lesser grades? Don't hear you complaining once about them.

+1 I recently talked to a white acquaintance who said her 13 year old daughter is interested in going to medical school, but "she probably won't get in because affirmative action will give all the spots to blacks". She has her excuses ready 10 years in advance! <sarcasm> After all, affirmative action is the only possible reason why she couldn't get in medical school <\sarcasm>

No, your acquaintance probably read the AAMC charts that showed how difficult it is for whites to get in. (And if she's Asian, it's even worse.) It's actually quite discouraging to see how blacks with a B average get into medical school and whites with an A- average have to kiss their dream of becoming a doctor goodbye - unless they go to some crap Caribbean school.

When I meet a white doctor who recently graduated, I know how smart he must be. He had all the odds stacked against him, and still he made it.

No my acquaintance is an idiot. There are 3% fewer slots for white applicants because of AA.

Link to your nonsense?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The vast majority of spots at competitive colleges will go to white kids. They will continue on their easy path of upward mobility. Why are you so focused on the handful of spots that go to URMs? What about other spots at those colleges that go to other kids with lesser grades? Don't hear you complaining once about them.

+1 I recently talked to a white acquaintance who said her 13 year old daughter is interested in going to medical school, but "she probably won't get in because affirmative action will give all the spots to blacks". She has her excuses ready 10 years in advance! <sarcasm> After all, affirmative action is the only possible reason why she couldn't get in medical school <\sarcasm>

No, your acquaintance probably read the AAMC charts that showed how difficult it is for whites to get in. (And if she's Asian, it's even worse.) It's actually quite discouraging to see how blacks with a B average get into medical school and whites with an A- average have to kiss their dream of becoming a doctor goodbye - unless they go to some crap Caribbean school.

When I meet a white doctor who recently graduated, I know how smart he must be. He had all the odds stacked against him, and still he made it.

No my acquaintance is an idiot. There are 3% fewer slots for white applicants because of AA.

I got news for you. Unless your acquaintance's kid can get all As and garner a top score on the MCAT, she will lose her place to a black kid with a B+ average and a score slightly above average on the MCAT. Data don't lie; liberals do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What makes you people so sure your kid would have been next on the list? At the cut line, there are hundreds of applicants who are very close in qualifications. None of them are undeserving but none of them are entitled to a spot either. There are other schools and if your kid is all you think he/she is, he/she will do well with a degree from any of them. It’s only the parents who can’t imagine life without Harvard or Yale or Princeton or Stanford.

Exactly.

Nobody ever said they were entitled. But in many cases their grades and scores would have taken them in that direction, but AA policies instead favored lower-scoring blacks. So why are black kids with lower grades ENTITLED? Any why can't the poorer-scoring black kids go to some other school? You people seem to be saying that 3rd tier universities are good enough for poor white Billy from the housing projects, even with his A- average, and yet Daeshanda should go to Ivy with her B+. Why not just turn it around: Let the better student go to the better school, and the so-so student go to the lesser university?

As soon as we have a level playing field that'd be fine. But today in 2019 we still have white supremacists proudly marching the streets. We have a POTUS who hesitates to disavow them. We have harsh backlash to BLM. We have people still worshipping Confederate war heros and the flag. We have systematic racism / implicit bias.

We are not ready for that. If a handful of white people have a slightly less optimal outcome? That's a price I'm willing to pay. Sorry, Billy.

I'm not going to argue with you about the POTUS disavowing the fringe element of white supremacists, since he clearly did that and you in your liberal fog refuse to acknowledge it.

But, to get this straight, you say that you are willing to send all the Billys (poor white kids from the housing projects who, despite their hardships, managed to get all As) to community college or a lesser school because that is a price YOU are willing to pay? Such a liberal. You guys are willing to pay for anything as long as it is not you personally paying the price. So generous.

All I can say is thank god that my parents went to college before AA was in effect. They both had after-school jobs that got that home at MIDNIGHT to help pay the family's bills, and still managed to ace their college admissions tests. I shudder to think how different their lives would have been if they had been shut out of college because Dashanda, who did much worse academically, was seen as deserving a chance - and the whites weren't.

I said he HESITATED to disavow. Which was 100% accurate.

Why do you think that every.single.poor.white.kid won't go to college because they are "losing their spots" to URMs? How many Billys do you think there are? How many kids are actually affecting by AA? What is the real-life impact? Not another hypothetical med student that doesn't exist. You'll need to account for all of the rich white kids who scored a tiny bit higher than Billy but also didn't get in. And all of the URMs who did score higher than him.

I am perfectly fine if my kids go to a "lesser" school (even community college) if that means more URMs can go to an elite college. They will be fine.

I'm SO SURE you will be fine if you kids, who earned all As, are relegated to community college (you should walk around there.....kids are carrying remedial English books and Alegebra I books), so that Dashanda with her Bs can go to a good university.

P.S Maybe you should ask your kids if they'd be willing to go community college instead of a good four-year university so Dashanda can take their slots. Maybe they feel differently about your being so willing to sacrifice their futures for your liberal ideals that punish whites.

IMO the only downside of community college is not having the quintessential college experience (dorms, parties, etc.), but for jobs, etc. my kids would be fine. In fact, two very successful people in my family (from poor families) both started in community college.

^^
Plus...still waiting for a reply to this....

"How many Billys do you think there are? How many kids are actually affecting by AA? What is the real-life impact? Not another hypothetical med student that doesn't exist. You'll need to account for all of the rich white kids who scored a tiny bit higher than Billy but also didn't get in. And all of the URMs who did score higher than him. "

1) I think you should ask your kids if they are willing to miss the quintessential college experience so that black kids who are much worse students than they can go to a much better school.

2) Stop with the rich kids talk. This is about POOR whites who lose out on a chance for a good life because the Dashandas are favored, despite their superior academic records.

3) As for how many kids are actually affected by AA, about 2/3 of black kids would NOT be admitted if standards were applied equally. So you'd have to know how many black kids are currently in college (maybe close to 2 million), meaning that close to 700,000 whites with superior academics are impacted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The vast majority of spots at competitive colleges will go to white kids. They will continue on their easy path of upward mobility. Why are you so focused on the handful of spots that go to URMs? What about other spots at those colleges that go to other kids with lesser grades? Don't hear you complaining once about them.

+1 I recently talked to a white acquaintance who said her 13 year old daughter is interested in going to medical school, but "she probably won't get in because affirmative action will give all the spots to blacks". She has her excuses ready 10 years in advance! <sarcasm> After all, affirmative action is the only possible reason why she couldn't get in medical school <\sarcasm>

No, your acquaintance probably read the AAMC charts that showed how difficult it is for whites to get in. (And if she's Asian, it's even worse.) It's actually quite discouraging to see how blacks with a B average get into medical school and whites with an A- average have to kiss their dream of becoming a doctor goodbye - unless they go to some crap Caribbean school.

When I meet a white doctor who recently graduated, I know how smart he must be. He had all the odds stacked against him, and still he made it.

No my acquaintance is an idiot. There are 3% fewer slots for white applicants because of AA.

I got news for you. Unless your acquaintance's kid can get all As and garner a top score on the MCAT, she will lose her place to a black kid with a B+ average and a score slightly above average on the MCAT. Data don't lie; liberals do.

Nope - the kid is much more likely to lose the spot to a white or asian kid with slightly better scores.