Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas headed to divorce

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah. There is an easy legal answer here. Kids stay in US. Absent agreement or absent some reason Joe cannot parent, that is just the way it will go even if they have joint custody. Could the kids visit UK? yes all the time. But law is clear that they are US residents.

Once the kids visit the UK, it's very possible that a UK court presented with the same facts decides the kids belong in the UK

[Anonymous]

Some relevant info from Turner's filing:

The petition stated that Jonas was in possession of the children's passports — but refused to hand them over and send them with Turner back to England.

The petition was filed after Jonas allegedly refused to let the children go with their mother, which " is a breach of the Mother’s rights of custody under English law, England being the children’s habitual residence."

The petition stated that the children, who have dual citizenship, are “fully involved and integrated” in daily life in England with the older child attending school and both involved in playdates and cultural activities.

Turner has requested the return of her children to England, has submitted her application for return with the Central Authority for England and Wales, and says that she “never consented or acquiesced to the removal of the children from England,” the court documents said.

The children are currently with Turner in New York, the filing said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/sophie-turner-sues-joe-jonas-return-2-children-england-rcna111359#

So she is arguing the kids were living in the UK with her and that she didn't consent to them being removed. Would like a few more details on that but it raises the question of whether Joe left the UK with them without Sophie's consent, or perhaps on false pretenses (like Sophie thought he was taking them for a visit with family or to attend a few of his tour dates, but then he just... stayed).

This is not an easy custody case and it's different from others that people are citing in this thread. Sophie's filing states that the children have dual citizenship. This is different, for instance, from Kelly Rutherford's kids who were US citizens only and never citizens of Monaco. It's also VERY relevant that the children were living in the UK for a sustained period as recently as spring/summer 2023. If the elder daughter was enrolled in school, this is evidence of a more permanent residence than simply "visiting" Sophie on set. Also the fact of the home rental there -- if Sophie can show a long-term lease and that she and Joe both signed that paperwork, that will go some way to establishing residency there.

I don't think it's obvious that Joe is going to get the kids to stay in the US. Which I actually think Joe is aware of and may be why he has engaged in a number of desperate-looking measures to both trash Sophie in the press or make himself appear more family oriented and invested. I think he is aware that Sophie has a strong case for getting primary custody in the UK, and that many of his decisions since deciding to file have been desperate efforts to undermine that case, knowing he doesn't have similarly strong arguments on his behalf (no home base in the US, the kids likely don't have strong ties in terms of school, childcare, or family ties to any particular spot in the US).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah. There is an easy legal answer here. Kids stay in US. Absent agreement or absent some reason Joe cannot parent, that is just the way it will go even if they have joint custody. Could the kids visit UK? yes all the time. But law is clear that they are US residents.

Once the kids visit the UK, it's very possible that a UK court presented with the same facts decides the kids belong in the UK

This one might wind up involving diplomatic intervention because Sophie is making a very strong claim under UK law and if she and the kids are all UK citizens (even if the kids area also US citizens) that will be persuasive in a UK court.

There is actually a decent likelihood here that a US court will award 50/50 joint custody but order that the kids remain in the US, but that a UK court will award Sophie primary custody (UK is more heavily tilted in favor of the mother and will likely be more persuaded by Sophie having a home base and supportive family in the UK) with visitation rights to Joe.

I have no idea who that would be reconciled.

[Anonymous]

Dude should have worked on his marriage rather than surprising her with a divorce.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like Joe didn't want to live in the UK after all and wants to bring his kids back with him, which is why he was trashing her as a mom in the press.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dude should have worked on his marriage rather than surprising her with a divorce.

If her filing is accurate, seems he had a change of heart about moving to England. Egged on by his family, no doubt. Of course he should have worked on his marriage. School year in the UK, summers and alternating holidays in the US would have been a reasonable solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dude should have worked on his marriage rather than surprising her with a divorce.

If her filing is accurate, seems he had a change of heart about moving to England. Egged on by his family, no doubt. Of course he should have worked on his marriage. School year in the UK, summers and alternating holidays in the US would have been a reasonable solution.

I’m sorry but how is that reasonable? They hadn’t lived in the UK at all for most of their 4 years of their marriage, save for short visits last Christmas and in the spring while Sophie was filming. Their marriage was crumbling. Why would anyone in their right mind concede that it was then reasonable to establish the kids residence in the UK in perpetuity and resign ones self to seeing their kids in the summer and vacations?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dude should have worked on his marriage rather than surprising her with a divorce.

If her filing is accurate, seems he had a change of heart about moving to England. Egged on by his family, no doubt. Of course he should have worked on his marriage. School year in the UK, summers and alternating holidays in the US would have been a reasonable solution.

I’m sorry but how is that reasonable? They hadn’t lived in the UK at all for most of their 4 years of their marriage, save for short visits last Christmas and in the spring while Sophie was filming. Their marriage was crumbling. Why would anyone in their right mind concede that it was then reasonable to establish the kids residence in the UK in perpetuity and resign ones self to seeing their kids in the summer and vacations?

I agree it is not an ideal situation for him but he didn't handle it well at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dude should have worked on his marriage rather than surprising her with a divorce.

If her filing is accurate, seems he had a change of heart about moving to England. Egged on by his family, no doubt. Of course he should have worked on his marriage. School year in the UK, summers and alternating holidays in the US would have been a reasonable solution.

I’m sorry but how is that reasonable? They hadn’t lived in the UK at all for most of their 4 years of their marriage, save for short visits last Christmas and in the spring while Sophie was filming. Their marriage was crumbling. Why would anyone in their right mind concede that it was then reasonable to establish the kids residence in the UK in perpetuity and resign ones self to seeing their kids in the summer and vacations?

No, my point is this is what they should have done as a family. Seems they had agreed and he changed his mind. I know she wanted a UK education for them, which I can also appreciate. Now looks like they'll have to homeschool the kids, who will end up going back and forth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dude should have worked on his marriage rather than surprising her with a divorce.

If her filing is accurate, seems he had a change of heart about moving to England. Egged on by his family, no doubt. Of course he should have worked on his marriage. School year in the UK, summers and alternating holidays in the US would have been a reasonable solution.

I’m sorry but how is that reasonable? They hadn’t lived in the UK at all for most of their 4 years of their marriage, save for short visits last Christmas and in the spring while Sophie was filming. Their marriage was crumbling. Why would anyone in their right mind concede that it was then reasonable to establish the kids residence in the UK in perpetuity and resign ones self to seeing their kids in the summer and vacations?

No, my point is this is what they should have done as a family. Seems they had agreed and he changed his mind. I know she wanted a UK education for them, which I can also appreciate. Now looks like they'll have to homeschool the kids, who will end up going back and forth.

It would equally if not more reasonable, as a family, to have the kids go to school in the US.

I don’t think he changed his mind about living in the UK. I think their marriage was failing and he became nervous that any time spent in the UK would establish his kids residence there. I completely understand his weariness of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dude should have worked on his marriage rather than surprising her with a divorce.

If her filing is accurate, seems he had a change of heart about moving to England. Egged on by his family, no doubt. Of course he should have worked on his marriage. School year in the UK, summers and alternating holidays in the US would have been a reasonable solution.

I’m sorry but how is that reasonable? They hadn’t lived in the UK at all for most of their 4 years of their marriage, save for short visits last Christmas and in the spring while Sophie was filming. Their marriage was crumbling. Why would anyone in their right mind concede that it was then reasonable to establish the kids residence in the UK in perpetuity and resign ones self to seeing their kids in the summer and vacations?

No, my point is this is what they should have done as a family. Seems they had agreed and he changed his mind. I know she wanted a UK education for them, which I can also appreciate. Now looks like they'll have to homeschool the kids, who will end up going back and forth.

It would equally if not more reasonable, as a family, to have the kids go to school in the US.

I don’t think he changed his mind about living in the UK. I think their marriage was failing and he became nervous that any time spent in the UK would establish his kids residence there. I completely understand his weariness of that.

Except if her filing was accurate that the older daughter had enrolled in and attended school in the UK, then it looks very much like he changed his mind. Do you enroll your kids in school when you go on a temporary trip?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dude should have worked on his marriage rather than surprising her with a divorce.

If her filing is accurate, seems he had a change of heart about moving to England. Egged on by his family, no doubt. Of course he should have worked on his marriage. School year in the UK, summers and alternating holidays in the US would have been a reasonable solution.

I’m sorry but how is that reasonable? They hadn’t lived in the UK at all for most of their 4 years of their marriage, save for short visits last Christmas and in the spring while Sophie was filming. Their marriage was crumbling. Why would anyone in their right mind concede that it was then reasonable to establish the kids residence in the UK in perpetuity and resign ones self to seeing their kids in the summer and vacations?

No, my point is this is what they should have done as a family. Seems they had agreed and he changed his mind. I know she wanted a UK education for them, which I can also appreciate. Now looks like they'll have to homeschool the kids, who will end up going back and forth.

It would equally if not more reasonable, as a family, to have the kids go to school in the US.

I don’t think he changed his mind about living in the UK. I think their marriage was failing and he became nervous that any time spent in the UK would establish his kids residence there. I completely understand his weariness of that.

Except if her filing was accurate that the older daughter had enrolled in and attended school in the UK, then it looks very much like he changed his mind. Do you enroll your kids in school when you go on a temporary trip?

some do. 🥒. FYP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dude should have worked on his marriage rather than surprising her with a divorce.

If her filing is accurate, seems he had a change of heart about moving to England. Egged on by his family, no doubt. Of course he should have worked on his marriage. School year in the UK, summers and alternating holidays in the US would have been a reasonable solution.

I’m sorry but how is that reasonable? They hadn’t lived in the UK at all for most of their 4 years of their marriage, save for short visits last Christmas and in the spring while Sophie was filming. Their marriage was crumbling. Why would anyone in their right mind concede that it was then reasonable to establish the kids residence in the UK in perpetuity and resign ones self to seeing their kids in the summer and vacations?

If those were short visits how did the 3 yr old wind up enrolled in school? I think they were in the UK for several months this year, starting in April. And they were living in the house they rented in December. It's not like the popped over for a couple weeks, stayed in a hotel, visited Stonehenge and Big Ben, and then went back to their "normal" life in the states. It really sounds like the moved to the UK. They may have done so with the intention of it being just a year or two and then moving back to the US, but it doesn't sound like a vacation. They were living there and now Joe is trying to pretend otherwise even though he can't specify exactly where they live OTHER than the UK. They don't have another home.

If Joe didn't want to split time with his kids in the UK, he should not have married a UK citizen and had dual citizen kids with her. Sophie has also already shown a great deal of willingness to spend time in the US, and as an actor she'd likely be in the US with some frequency for work anyway. This really looks like Joe just not wanting to meet her halfway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dude should have worked on his marriage rather than surprising her with a divorce.

If her filing is accurate, seems he had a change of heart about moving to England. Egged on by his family, no doubt. Of course he should have worked on his marriage. School year in the UK, summers and alternating holidays in the US would have been a reasonable solution.

I’m sorry but how is that reasonable? They hadn’t lived in the UK at all for most of their 4 years of their marriage, save for short visits last Christmas and in the spring while Sophie was filming. Their marriage was crumbling. Why would anyone in their right mind concede that it was then reasonable to establish the kids residence in the UK in perpetuity and resign ones self to seeing their kids in the summer and vacations?

No, my point is this is what they should have done as a family. Seems they had agreed and he changed his mind. I know she wanted a UK education for them, which I can also appreciate. Now looks like they'll have to homeschool the kids, who will end up going back and forth.

It would equally if not more reasonable, as a family, to have the kids go to school in the US.

I don’t think he changed his mind about living in the UK. I think their marriage was failing and he became nervous that any time spent in the UK would establish his kids residence there. I completely understand his weariness of that.

Except if her filing was accurate that the older daughter had enrolled in and attended school in the UK, then it looks very much like he changed his mind. Do you enroll your kids in school when you go on a temporary trip?

some do. 🥒. FYP

Not rich people who can afford tutors to travel with them for continuity. If they went to the trouble of enrolling in a school, it indicates some degree of permanence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dude should have worked on his marriage rather than surprising her with a divorce.

If her filing is accurate, seems he had a change of heart about moving to England. Egged on by his family, no doubt. Of course he should have worked on his marriage. School year in the UK, summers and alternating holidays in the US would have been a reasonable solution.

I’m sorry but how is that reasonable? They hadn’t lived in the UK at all for most of their 4 years of their marriage, save for short visits last Christmas and in the spring while Sophie was filming. Their marriage was crumbling. Why would anyone in their right mind concede that it was then reasonable to establish the kids residence in the UK in perpetuity and resign ones self to seeing their kids in the summer and vacations?

No, my point is this is what they should have done as a family. Seems they had agreed and he changed his mind. I know she wanted a UK education for them, which I can also appreciate. Now looks like they'll have to homeschool the kids, who will end up going back and forth.

It would equally if not more reasonable, as a family, to have the kids go to school in the US.

I don’t think he changed his mind about living in the UK. I think their marriage was failing and he became nervous that any time spent in the UK would establish his kids residence there. I completely understand his weariness of that.

Except if her filing was accurate that the older daughter had enrolled in and attended school in the UK, then it looks very much like he changed his mind. Do you enroll your kids in school when you go on a temporary trip?

some do. 🥒. FYP

I'm fluent in Gen Z social media and this one still has me flummoxed. We're talking about sending kids to school... what?