Drag Queen Story Hours

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

I think if I want to take my kids to a book reading, I should be able to. If you don't want me to, that's not your prerogative.

Sure. And we can point out how you are taking your kids to a book reading that relies on the vast systemic and historic oppression of women for “entertainment.”

I am going to keep asking this until someone answers with more than just saying "I feel this way.":


No one has explained how drag shows where performers dance to Cher, Beyonce, and Dolly is misogyny. Saying it is isn't evidence or an argument.

Keep in mine drag queens love these performers because they are naturally over the top feminine. Does that mean Dolly, Cher, and Bey are also misogynists and unworthy of feminist consideration? ETA; and they are propagating systemic and historic oppression of women?
Or--is it maybe just people using feminism in the most venal way possible as a cloak for their bigotry?

Appropriating and performing "female" is different than being a female who is a performer. In the case of the female performers, female is their identity. But drag queen isn't actually an identity, it is a performance. Can you not see the difference?

Harry stiles, boy george, queen, prince, mick haggard, David Bowie, all Scottish men,

Oh yes...PP here who asked about Cher, Dolly etc. Is it appropriation for these men to take on so much of the stereotypical female attributes? Or for Annie Lennox to have worn typically male short hair, suits, and leathers?

Annie Lennox was androgynous in that era.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

Pervert. This is not sexualized.

He/she wasn't saying that the story time is secualized but rather how it all started certainly was. Reading comprehension!

+1000

If it’s not sexualized then why are so many panties in a bunch?

Because of homophobia/transphobia? Anti-LGBT people think of the LGBT community and only think sex.

I have no dog in this fight and wouldn't necessarily not take my kid to a DGSH. But can we please stop with calling people homophobes and transphobes when they disagree with you and/or have a different view or comfort level. I certainly don't think everything in the gay or trans community is sexualized, but have you been to a drag show? I have many times. It was a great time and would go again, but to say it is not sexualized is just stupid. Not saying that a kid story hour would be, but I can hear other's opinions without assuming the worst about them.

This is about story time though and not an adult drag performance. Think more Donna Reed. That’s the sizzle factor. None at all. It’s like nana coming to be the mystery reader at school, except maybe more liner and bigger hair (maybe- don’t know your nana).

I was responding to the person who jumps to calling everyone who disagrees a homophobe or a transphobe. It's not productive.

Yes, and you also shared why you thought drag was inherently sexual based on going to drag shows.

Your reading comprehension is lacking. Please do better. I said drag shows are sexualized which they are. I never said story time was.

You trod the line. Perhaps your writing is less lucid externally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

I think if I want to take my kids to a book reading, I should be able to. If you don't want me to, that's not your prerogative.

Sure. And we can point out how you are taking your kids to a book reading that relies on the vast systemic and historic oppression of women for “entertainment.”

I am going to keep asking this until someone answers with more than just saying "I feel this way.":


No one has explained how drag shows where performers dance to Cher, Beyonce, and Dolly is misogyny. Saying it is isn't evidence or an argument.

Keep in mine drag queens love these performers because they are naturally over the top feminine. Does that mean Dolly, Cher, and Bey are also misogynists and unworthy of feminist consideration? ETA; and they are propagating systemic and historic oppression of women?
Or--is it maybe just people using feminism in the most venal way possible as a cloak for their bigotry?

Links were provided pages ago. You just don’t want to even do the tiniest bit of work to understand the feminist issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

I think if I want to take my kids to a book reading, I should be able to. If you don't want me to, that's not your prerogative.

Sure. And we can point out how you are taking your kids to a book reading that relies on the vast systemic and historic oppression of women for “entertainment.”

I am going to keep asking this until someone answers with more than just saying "I feel this way.":


No one has explained how drag shows where performers dance to Cher, Beyonce, and Dolly is misogyny. Saying it is isn't evidence or an argument.

Keep in mine drag queens love these performers because they are naturally over the top feminine. Does that mean Dolly, Cher, and Bey are also misogynists and unworthy of feminist consideration? ETA; and they are propagating systemic and historic oppression of women?
Or--is it maybe just people using feminism in the most venal way possible as a cloak for their bigotry?

Appropriating and performing "female" is different than being a female who is a performer. In the case of the female performers, female is their identity. But drag queen isn't actually an identity, it is a performance. Can you not see the difference?

So when gay actors perform straight stereotypical, but exaggerated straight roles, like say, Neil Patrick Harris playing womanizing Barney Stinson, is that appropriation? After all, being straight isn't NPH's identity?

How about Dustin Hoffman playing Tootsie, or Robin Williams playing Mrs. Doubtfire, both of them playing men playing to stereotypes of uptight, straight-laced women?

Or how about black actors playing roles in Hamilton, or white-as Mel Gibson playing Christ, or etc etc?

If it is okay for Dolly and Bey and Cher to be Dolly and Bey and Cher, why can't men perform as them as performers have been doing for forever--by playing NOT their identities.

What about straight actors playing over-the-top gay characters? Is that okay? What about white actors pretending to be black people with exaggerated, stereotypical tropes? Isn't everything okay because acting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

Pervert. This is not sexualized.

He/she wasn't saying that the story time is secualized but rather how it all started certainly was. Reading comprehension!

+1000

If it’s not sexualized then why are so many panties in a bunch?

Because of homophobia/transphobia? Anti-LGBT people think of the LGBT community and only think sex.

I have no dog in this fight and wouldn't necessarily not take my kid to a DGSH. But can we please stop with calling people homophobes and transphobes when they disagree with you and/or have a different view or comfort level. I certainly don't think everything in the gay or trans community is sexualized, but have you been to a drag show? I have many times. It was a great time and would go again, but to say it is not sexualized is just stupid. Not saying that a kid story hour would be, but I can hear other's opinions without assuming the worst about them.

Except the people who have ginned up all of this stuff about drag queen story hour are not, and have not been, acting in good faith. They've just decided that today, they target the drag queens = and they've built a frothing mob as they've done it. None of them are dumb enough or sheltered enough to believe the things they're saying - and that now they've got other people parroting. They are political opportunists who think that this is the issue that'll win them power - who cares how stupid and craven.

Typical that you assume all people who disagree with you are incapable of reaching their own conclusions.

I thought drag was misogynist and was reading feminist literature about sexism in drag in the mid-2000s. There is a long history of feminist discussion on this topic, but I suspect you don’t actually care what women think.

Oh for gd's sake. I read Dworkin like every other feminist in the 90s. Of course I care what women think.

The thing is that the people harping on the allegely feminist critique of drag queen story hour - and just fk all of this nonsense for even making me write these words - may believe what they're saying, but it sure sounds like they're just looking for what they believe to be the left wing gotcha point here. And it's just stupid. It's just stupid.

The right wingers are craven opportunists. The people pretending to be left wingers should pick better company.

Shorter version: “Women, just shut up.”

[Anonymous]

If the adults here are struggling to understand, can you imagine how confused these young children are about what they are seeing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

I think if I want to take my kids to a book reading, I should be able to. If you don't want me to, that's not your prerogative.

Sure. And we can point out how you are taking your kids to a book reading that relies on the vast systemic and historic oppression of women for “entertainment.”

I am going to keep asking this until someone answers with more than just saying "I feel this way.":


No one has explained how drag shows where performers dance to Cher, Beyonce, and Dolly is misogyny. Saying it is isn't evidence or an argument.

Keep in mine drag queens love these performers because they are naturally over the top feminine. Does that mean Dolly, Cher, and Bey are also misogynists and unworthy of feminist consideration? ETA; and they are propagating systemic and historic oppression of women?
Or--is it maybe just people using feminism in the most venal way possible as a cloak for their bigotry?

Appropriating and performing "female" is different than being a female who is a performer. In the case of the female performers, female is their identity. But drag queen isn't actually an identity, it is a performance. Can you not see the difference?

So when gay actors perform straight stereotypical, but exaggerated straight roles, like say, Neil Patrick Harris playing womanizing Barney Stinson, is that appropriation? After all, being straight isn't NPH's identity?

How about Dustin Hoffman playing Tootsie, or Robin Williams playing Mrs. Doubtfire, both of them playing men playing to stereotypes of uptight, straight-laced women?

Or how about black actors playing roles in Hamilton, or white-as Mel Gibson playing Christ, or etc etc?

If it is okay for Dolly and Bey and Cher to be Dolly and Bey and Cher, why can't men perform as them as performers have been doing for forever--by playing NOT their identities.

What about straight actors playing over-the-top gay characters? Is that okay? What about white actors pretending to be black people with exaggerated, stereotypical tropes? Isn't everything okay because acting?

There are a lot of disability rights activists who do not think able-bodied actors should mimic the disabled for entertainment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

Pervert. This is not sexualized.

He/she wasn't saying that the story time is secualized but rather how it all started certainly was. Reading comprehension!

+1000

If it’s not sexualized then why are so many panties in a bunch?

Because of homophobia/transphobia? Anti-LGBT people think of the LGBT community and only think sex.

I have no dog in this fight and wouldn't necessarily not take my kid to a DGSH. But can we please stop with calling people homophobes and transphobes when they disagree with you and/or have a different view or comfort level. I certainly don't think everything in the gay or trans community is sexualized, but have you been to a drag show? I have many times. It was a great time and would go again, but to say it is not sexualized is just stupid. Not saying that a kid story hour would be, but I can hear other's opinions without assuming the worst about them.

Except the people who have ginned up all of this stuff about drag queen story hour are not, and have not been, acting in good faith. They've just decided that today, they target the drag queens = and they've built a frothing mob as they've done it. None of them are dumb enough or sheltered enough to believe the things they're saying - and that now they've got other people parroting. They are political opportunists who think that this is the issue that'll win them power - who cares how stupid and craven.

Typical that you assume all people who disagree with you are incapable of reaching their own conclusions.

I thought drag was misogynist and was reading feminist literature about sexism in drag in the mid-2000s. There is a long history of feminist discussion on this topic, but I suspect you don’t actually care what women think.

Oh for gd's sake. I read Dworkin like every other feminist in the 90s. Of course I care what women think.

The thing is that the people harping on the allegely feminist critique of drag queen story hour - and just fk all of this nonsense for even making me write these words - may believe what they're saying, but it sure sounds like they're just looking for what they believe to be the left wing gotcha point here. And it's just stupid. It's just stupid.

The right wingers are craven opportunists. The people pretending to be left wingers should pick better company.

Shorter version: “Women, just shut up.”

NP. No. Your interpretation of that perhaps. You are set on an agenda. That’s fine. But it’s exactly your opinion. It doesn’t not belong to this feminist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

I think if I want to take my kids to a book reading, I should be able to. If you don't want me to, that's not your prerogative.

Sure. And we can point out how you are taking your kids to a book reading that relies on the vast systemic and historic oppression of women for “entertainment.”

I am going to keep asking this until someone answers with more than just saying "I feel this way.":


No one has explained how drag shows where performers dance to Cher, Beyonce, and Dolly is misogyny. Saying it is isn't evidence or an argument.

Keep in mine drag queens love these performers because they are naturally over the top feminine. Does that mean Dolly, Cher, and Bey are also misogynists and unworthy of feminist consideration? ETA; and they are propagating systemic and historic oppression of women?
Or--is it maybe just people using feminism in the most venal way possible as a cloak for their bigotry?

Appropriating and performing "female" is different than being a female who is a performer. In the case of the female performers, female is their identity. But drag queen isn't actually an identity, it is a performance. Can you not see the difference?

So when gay actors perform straight stereotypical, but exaggerated straight roles, like say, Neil Patrick Harris playing womanizing Barney Stinson, is that appropriation? After all, being straight isn't NPH's identity?

How about Dustin Hoffman playing Tootsie, or Robin Williams playing Mrs. Doubtfire, both of them playing men playing to stereotypes of uptight, straight-laced women?

Or how about black actors playing roles in Hamilton, or white-as Mel Gibson playing Christ, or etc etc?

If it is okay for Dolly and Bey and Cher to be Dolly and Bey and Cher, why can't men perform as them as performers have been doing for forever--by playing NOT their identities.

What about straight actors playing over-the-top gay characters? Is that okay? What about white actors pretending to be black people with exaggerated, stereotypical tropes? Isn't everything okay because acting?

False analogies. Take a logic class. But I'll try to spell it out for you.

If BEING Bey, Cher, and Dolly, or overtly feminine isn't offensive, as a couple of anti-drag posters said, playing those characters isn't offensive.
If you are playing an offensive gay or black characters in a club, that would be uncool. Playing them in a movie as a thoughtful role--not offensive.
But don't deflect--answer the questions above and the PP's examples of harry styles et al.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

Pervert. This is not sexualized.

He/she wasn't saying that the story time is secualized but rather how it all started certainly was. Reading comprehension!

+1000

If it’s not sexualized then why are so many panties in a bunch?

Because of homophobia/transphobia? Anti-LGBT people think of the LGBT community and only think sex.

I have no dog in this fight and wouldn't necessarily not take my kid to a DGSH. But can we please stop with calling people homophobes and transphobes when they disagree with you and/or have a different view or comfort level. I certainly don't think everything in the gay or trans community is sexualized, but have you been to a drag show? I have many times. It was a great time and would go again, but to say it is not sexualized is just stupid. Not saying that a kid story hour would be, but I can hear other's opinions without assuming the worst about them.

Except the people who have ginned up all of this stuff about drag queen story hour are not, and have not been, acting in good faith. They've just decided that today, they target the drag queens = and they've built a frothing mob as they've done it. None of them are dumb enough or sheltered enough to believe the things they're saying - and that now they've got other people parroting. They are political opportunists who think that this is the issue that'll win them power - who cares how stupid and craven.

Typical that you assume all people who disagree with you are incapable of reaching their own conclusions.

I thought drag was misogynist and was reading feminist literature about sexism in drag in the mid-2000s. There is a long history of feminist discussion on this topic, but I suspect you don’t actually care what women think.

Oh for gd's sake. I read Dworkin like every other feminist in the 90s. Of course I care what women think.

The thing is that the people harping on the allegely feminist critique of drag queen story hour - and just fk all of this nonsense for even making me write these words - may believe what they're saying, but it sure sounds like they're just looking for what they believe to be the left wing gotcha point here. And it's just stupid. It's just stupid.

The right wingers are craven opportunists. The people pretending to be left wingers should pick better company.

Shorter version: “Women, just shut up.”

NP. No. Your interpretation of that perhaps. You are set on an agenda. That’s fine. But it’s exactly your opinion. It doesn’t not belong to this feminist.

Grrrr the double negative was unintentional.

I do not find drag misogynistic. - a feminist (with a uterus)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

I think if I want to take my kids to a book reading, I should be able to. If you don't want me to, that's not your prerogative.

Sure. And we can point out how you are taking your kids to a book reading that relies on the vast systemic and historic oppression of women for “entertainment.”

I am going to keep asking this until someone answers with more than just saying "I feel this way.":


No one has explained how drag shows where performers dance to Cher, Beyonce, and Dolly is misogyny. Saying it is isn't evidence or an argument.

Keep in mine drag queens love these performers because they are naturally over the top feminine. Does that mean Dolly, Cher, and Bey are also misogynists and unworthy of feminist consideration? ETA; and they are propagating systemic and historic oppression of women?
Or--is it maybe just people using feminism in the most venal way possible as a cloak for their bigotry?

Appropriating and performing "female" is different than being a female who is a performer. In the case of the female performers, female is their identity. But drag queen isn't actually an identity, it is a performance. Can you not see the difference?

So when gay actors perform straight stereotypical, but exaggerated straight roles, like say, Neil Patrick Harris playing womanizing Barney Stinson, is that appropriation? After all, being straight isn't NPH's identity?

How about Dustin Hoffman playing Tootsie, or Robin Williams playing Mrs. Doubtfire, both of them playing men playing to stereotypes of uptight, straight-laced women?

Or how about black actors playing roles in Hamilton, or white-as Mel Gibson playing Christ, or etc etc?

If it is okay for Dolly and Bey and Cher to be Dolly and Bey and Cher, why can't men perform as them as performers have been doing for forever--by playing NOT their identities.

What about straight actors playing over-the-top gay characters? Is that okay? What about white actors pretending to be black people with exaggerated, stereotypical tropes? Isn't everything okay because acting?

There are a lot of disability rights activists who do not think able-bodied actors should mimic the disabled for entertainment.

Correction: there are a lot of disability rights activists believe who believe the roles should go to people who have that disability if an actor is available, largely because disabled actors have not been given roles historically. There are plenty of autistic and wheelchair bound actors who could play those roles. But if acting, say, profoundly mentally disabled, hard to find someone who can act that.

Don't want to confuse any of you with nuance, though.

But the p

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

Pervert. This is not sexualized.

He/she wasn't saying that the story time is secualized but rather how it all started certainly was. Reading comprehension!

+1000

If it’s not sexualized then why are so many panties in a bunch?

Because of homophobia/transphobia? Anti-LGBT people think of the LGBT community and only think sex.

I have no dog in this fight and wouldn't necessarily not take my kid to a DGSH. But can we please stop with calling people homophobes and transphobes when they disagree with you and/or have a different view or comfort level. I certainly don't think everything in the gay or trans community is sexualized, but have you been to a drag show? I have many times. It was a great time and would go again, but to say it is not sexualized is just stupid. Not saying that a kid story hour would be, but I can hear other's opinions without assuming the worst about them.

Except the people who have ginned up all of this stuff about drag queen story hour are not, and have not been, acting in good faith. They've just decided that today, they target the drag queens = and they've built a frothing mob as they've done it. None of them are dumb enough or sheltered enough to believe the things they're saying - and that now they've got other people parroting. They are political opportunists who think that this is the issue that'll win them power - who cares how stupid and craven.

Typical that you assume all people who disagree with you are incapable of reaching their own conclusions.

I thought drag was misogynist and was reading feminist literature about sexism in drag in the mid-2000s. There is a long history of feminist discussion on this topic, but I suspect you don’t actually care what women think.

Oh for gd's sake. I read Dworkin like every other feminist in the 90s. Of course I care what women think.

The thing is that the people harping on the allegely feminist critique of drag queen story hour - and just fk all of this nonsense for even making me write these words - may believe what they're saying, but it sure sounds like they're just looking for what they believe to be the left wing gotcha point here. And it's just stupid. It's just stupid.

The right wingers are craven opportunists. The people pretending to be left wingers should pick better company.

Shorter version: “Women, just shut up.”

NP. No. Your interpretation of that perhaps. You are set on an agenda. That’s fine. But it’s exactly your opinion. It doesn’t not belong to this feminist.

Then that PP should have no problem with people disagreeing with her, but she seems to have serious problems accepting that people disagree with her.

Let’s face it: she wants people who think DQSH is misogynist and sexist to shut up. If she didn’t, she would be okay with disagreement. But she obviously isn’t okay with disagreements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is pretty interesting that in this thread, posters have respectfully and (largely) without name-calling, discussed their thoughts on misogyny and sexism in drag, but the responses to those posts have (largely) just been people name-calling and unwilling to address the substance.

It isn’t very persuasive to sound like you are having a temper tantrum when a member of a historically deeply oppressed group says “hey, I perceive this as entertainment based in deep and historic oppression.”

There were blistering articles written about the right to blackface back in the day. There is nothing like the entitlement of the powerful to provoke rage when questioned.

Why do you think we're trying to "persuade" you of anything? You make disgusting comments then people will call you out for it.

Saying that drag is rooted in a history of misogyny and sexism is “disgusting”?

In fifty years, articles about the history of sexism will be written about people like you, and drag will have entered the history books for the sexist minstrelry that it is at heart. But keep having your temper tantrum in the mean time.

Manufacturing "history" to support your bigoted narrative is disgusting.

It’s too bad you are clearly incapable of rational discussion.

You are being left behind.

Who do you think I am?

A person who thinks sexism and misogyny is the pinnacle of entertainment.

Drag will be regarded years from now the way that blackface is rightly regarded now. It is sexist minstrelry based on harmful stereotypes.

I mean I think we can agree to disagree on this. To me it helps deconstruct those harmful stereotypes. I don’t think it’s the same as a blackface performance at all.

Curious, how and why are exagerating skin tone of different races different than appropriating the body parts of different sexes?

Because people of color are subjugated based on that skin tone and nothing else. I am not subjugated because of the way I dress, or my makeup, or because of having big exaggerated breasts. I am subjugated because I am a woman and none of those things actually make me a woman.

This is some pretty tortured reasoning, speaking as a former middle schooler who endured unending harassment and sexual assault based on my early-developed breasts. The idea that women don’t endure harassment because of large breasts seems deliberately ignorant.

I was just lurking on here and have BOTH dark skin and large breasts. Girls absolutely are made to feel uncomfortable b/c of their "curves" and girls in this area especially are specifically shamed if they enjoy make up, pink frilly clothes and jewelry, nail polish etc.. They are told that means they are a certain type of woman who is there for sexual enjoyment and that women who are serious present like Jen Psaki- barely any make up and no nonsense short hair and short nails. Women absolutely are harassed for dressing in the overtly feminine way that is represented in drag

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is pretty interesting that in this thread, posters have respectfully and (largely) without name-calling, discussed their thoughts on misogyny and sexism in drag, but the responses to those posts have (largely) just been people name-calling and unwilling to address the substance.

It isn’t very persuasive to sound like you are having a temper tantrum when a member of a historically deeply oppressed group says “hey, I perceive this as entertainment based in deep and historic oppression.”

There were blistering articles written about the right to blackface back in the day. There is nothing like the entitlement of the powerful to provoke rage when questioned.

Why do you think we're trying to "persuade" you of anything? You make disgusting comments then people will call you out for it.

Saying that drag is rooted in a history of misogyny and sexism is “disgusting”?

In fifty years, articles about the history of sexism will be written about people like you, and drag will have entered the history books for the sexist minstrelry that it is at heart. But keep having your temper tantrum in the mean time.

Manufacturing "history" to support your bigoted narrative is disgusting.

It’s too bad you are clearly incapable of rational discussion.

You are being left behind.

Who do you think I am?

A person who thinks sexism and misogyny is the pinnacle of entertainment.

Drag will be regarded years from now the way that blackface is rightly regarded now. It is sexist minstrelry based on harmful stereotypes.

I mean I think we can agree to disagree on this. To me it helps deconstruct those harmful stereotypes. I don’t think it’s the same as a blackface performance at all.

Curious, how and why are exagerating skin tone of different races different than appropriating the body parts of different sexes?

Because people of color are subjugated based on that skin tone and nothing else. I am not subjugated because of the way I dress, or my makeup, or because of having big exaggerated breasts. I am subjugated because I am a woman and none of those things actually make me a woman.

This is some pretty tortured reasoning, speaking as a former middle schooler who endured unending harassment and sexual assault based on my early-developed breasts. The idea that women don’t endure harassment because of large breasts seems deliberately ignorant.

I was just lurking on here and have BOTH dark skin and large breasts. Girls absolutely are made to feel uncomfortable b/c of their "curves" and girls in this area especially are specifically shamed if they enjoy make up, pink frilly clothes and jewelry, nail polish etc.. They are told that means they are a certain type of woman who is there for sexual enjoyment and that women who are serious present like Jen Psaki- barely any make up and no nonsense short hair and short nails. Women absolutely are harassed for dressing in the overtly feminine way that is represented in drag

Women are harassed for being women, no matter what they look like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

Pervert. This is not sexualized.

He/she wasn't saying that the story time is secualized but rather how it all started certainly was. Reading comprehension!

+1000

If it’s not sexualized then why are so many panties in a bunch?

Because of homophobia/transphobia? Anti-LGBT people think of the LGBT community and only think sex.

I have no dog in this fight and wouldn't necessarily not take my kid to a DGSH. But can we please stop with calling people homophobes and transphobes when they disagree with you and/or have a different view or comfort level. I certainly don't think everything in the gay or trans community is sexualized, but have you been to a drag show? I have many times. It was a great time and would go again, but to say it is not sexualized is just stupid. Not saying that a kid story hour would be, but I can hear other's opinions without assuming the worst about them.

Except the people who have ginned up all of this stuff about drag queen story hour are not, and have not been, acting in good faith. They've just decided that today, they target the drag queens = and they've built a frothing mob as they've done it. None of them are dumb enough or sheltered enough to believe the things they're saying - and that now they've got other people parroting. They are political opportunists who think that this is the issue that'll win them power - who cares how stupid and craven.

Typical that you assume all people who disagree with you are incapable of reaching their own conclusions.

I thought drag was misogynist and was reading feminist literature about sexism in drag in the mid-2000s. There is a long history of feminist discussion on this topic, but I suspect you don’t actually care what women think.

Oh for gd's sake. I read Dworkin like every other feminist in the 90s. Of course I care what women think.

The thing is that the people harping on the allegely feminist critique of drag queen story hour - and just fk all of this nonsense for even making me write these words - may believe what they're saying, but it sure sounds like they're just looking for what they believe to be the left wing gotcha point here. And it's just stupid. It's just stupid.

The right wingers are craven opportunists. The people pretending to be left wingers should pick better company.

Shorter version: “Women, just shut up.”

NP. No. Your interpretation of that perhaps. You are set on an agenda. That’s fine. But it’s exactly your opinion. It doesn’t not belong to this feminist.

Then that PP should have no problem with people disagreeing with her, but she seems to have serious problems accepting that people disagree with her.

Let’s face it: she wants people who think DQSH is misogynist and sexist to shut up. If she didn’t, she would be okay with disagreement. But she obviously isn’t okay with disagreements.

The misogynist poster wants to run this conversation. They really aren’t leaving space for any other viewpoint. Including parents who are responding to the original post. This is off the rails.