Drag Queen Story Hours

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

Pervert. This is not sexualized.

He/she wasn't saying that the story time is secualized but rather how it all started certainly was. Reading comprehension!

+1000

If it’s not sexualized then why are so many panties in a bunch?

Because of homophobia/transphobia? Anti-LGBT people think of the LGBT community and only think sex.

I have no dog in this fight and wouldn't necessarily not take my kid to a DGSH. But can we please stop with calling people homophobes and transphobes when they disagree with you and/or have a different view or comfort level. I certainly don't think everything in the gay or trans community is sexualized, but have you been to a drag show? I have many times. It was a great time and would go again, but to say it is not sexualized is just stupid. Not saying that a kid story hour would be, but I can hear other's opinions without assuming the worst about them.

This is about story time though and not an adult drag performance. Think more Donna Reed. That’s the sizzle factor. None at all. It’s like nana coming to be the mystery reader at school, except maybe more liner and bigger hair (maybe- don’t know your nana).

I was responding to the person who jumps to calling everyone who disagrees a homophobe or a transphobe. It's not productive.

So homophobia and transphobia having NOTHING to do with militia group thugs showing up at a kid's story time? OK!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

Pervert. This is not sexualized.

He/she wasn't saying that the story time is secualized but rather how it all started certainly was. Reading comprehension!

+1000

If it’s not sexualized then why are so many panties in a bunch?

Because of homophobia/transphobia? Anti-LGBT people think of the LGBT community and only think sex.

I have no dog in this fight and wouldn't necessarily not take my kid to a DGSH. But can we please stop with calling people homophobes and transphobes when they disagree with you and/or have a different view or comfort level. I certainly don't think everything in the gay or trans community is sexualized, but have you been to a drag show? I have many times. It was a great time and would go again, but to say it is not sexualized is just stupid. Not saying that a kid story hour would be, but I can hear other's opinions without assuming the worst about them.

This is about story time though and not an adult drag performance. Think more Donna Reed. That’s the sizzle factor. None at all. It’s like nana coming to be the mystery reader at school, except maybe more liner and bigger hair (maybe- don’t know your nana).

I was responding to the person who jumps to calling everyone who disagrees a homophobe or a transphobe. It's not productive.

So homophobia and transphobia having NOTHING to do with militia group thugs showing up at a kid's story time? OK!

That is not what was discussed when I (or you) responded and you know it. Own your comments. You have more integrity that way.

[Anonymous]

Are we really losing it because men dress in drag to read stories to kids? What about having kids sit on the lap of a stranger in a Santa Claus costume to take pics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

I think if I want to take my kids to a book reading, I should be able to. If you don't want me to, that's not your prerogative.

Sure. And we can point out how you are taking your kids to a book reading that relies on the vast systemic and historic oppression of women for “entertainment.”

I am going to keep asking this until someone answers with more than just saying "I feel this way.":


No one has explained how drag shows where performers dance to Cher, Beyonce, and Dolly is misogyny. Saying it is isn't evidence or an argument.

Keep in mine drag queens love these performers because they are naturally over the top feminine. Does that mean Dolly, Cher, and Bey are also misogynists and unworthy of feminist consideration? ETA; and they are propagating systemic and historic oppression of women?
Or--is it maybe just people using feminism in the most venal way possible as a cloak for their bigotry?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

Pervert. This is not sexualized.

He/she wasn't saying that the story time is secualized but rather how it all started certainly was. Reading comprehension!

+1000

If it’s not sexualized then why are so many panties in a bunch?

Because of homophobia/transphobia? Anti-LGBT people think of the LGBT community and only think sex.

I have no dog in this fight and wouldn't necessarily not take my kid to a DGSH. But can we please stop with calling people homophobes and transphobes when they disagree with you and/or have a different view or comfort level. I certainly don't think everything in the gay or trans community is sexualized, but have you been to a drag show? I have many times. It was a great time and would go again, but to say it is not sexualized is just stupid. Not saying that a kid story hour would be, but I can hear other's opinions without assuming the worst about them.

This is about story time though and not an adult drag performance. Think more Donna Reed. That’s the sizzle factor. None at all. It’s like nana coming to be the mystery reader at school, except maybe more liner and bigger hair (maybe- don’t know your nana).

I was responding to the person who jumps to calling everyone who disagrees a homophobe or a transphobe. It's not productive.

Yes, and you also shared why you thought drag was inherently sexual based on going to drag shows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

Pervert. This is not sexualized.

He/she wasn't saying that the story time is secualized but rather how it all started certainly was. Reading comprehension!

+1000

If it’s not sexualized then why are so many panties in a bunch?

Because of homophobia/transphobia? Anti-LGBT people think of the LGBT community and only think sex.

I have no dog in this fight and wouldn't necessarily not take my kid to a DGSH. But can we please stop with calling people homophobes and transphobes when they disagree with you and/or have a different view or comfort level. I certainly don't think everything in the gay or trans community is sexualized, but have you been to a drag show? I have many times. It was a great time and would go again, but to say it is not sexualized is just stupid. Not saying that a kid story hour would be, but I can hear other's opinions without assuming the worst about them.

Except the people who have ginned up all of this stuff about drag queen story hour are not, and have not been, acting in good faith. They've just decided that today, they target the drag queens = and they've built a frothing mob as they've done it. None of them are dumb enough or sheltered enough to believe the things they're saying - and that now they've got other people parroting. They are political opportunists who think that this is the issue that'll win them power - who cares how stupid and craven.

Typical that you assume all people who disagree with you are incapable of reaching their own conclusions.

I thought drag was misogynist and was reading feminist literature about sexism in drag in the mid-2000s. There is a long history of feminist discussion on this topic, but I suspect you don’t actually care what women think.

Oh for gd's sake. I read Dworkin like every other feminist in the 90s. Of course I care what women think.

The thing is that the people harping on the allegely feminist critique of drag queen story hour - and just fk all of this nonsense for even making me write these words - may believe what they're saying, but it sure sounds like they're just looking for what they believe to be the left wing gotcha point here. And it's just stupid. It's just stupid.

The right wingers are craven opportunists. The people pretending to be left wingers should pick better company.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

Pervert. This is not sexualized.

This wig is amazing. I love it so much.

omg she is fabulous, that's amazing

And what would you say to an actual older woman who showed up to kids story hour dressed like that, with that hair and makeup? Still just fine? You’d happily hand your kids to her?

I would love to have Dolly Parton come read to kids at our library!

She’s wonderful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

I think if I want to take my kids to a book reading, I should be able to. If you don't want me to, that's not your prerogative.

Sure. And we can point out how you are taking your kids to a book reading that relies on the vast systemic and historic oppression of women for “entertainment.”

I am going to keep asking this until someone answers with more than just saying "I feel this way.":


No one has explained how drag shows where performers dance to Cher, Beyonce, and Dolly is misogyny. Saying it is isn't evidence or an argument.

Keep in mine drag queens love these performers because they are naturally over the top feminine. Does that mean Dolly, Cher, and Bey are also misogynists and unworthy of feminist consideration? ETA; and they are propagating systemic and historic oppression of women?
Or--is it maybe just people using feminism in the most venal way possible as a cloak for their bigotry?

Appropriating and performing "female" is different than being a female who is a performer. In the case of the female performers, female is their identity. But drag queen isn't actually an identity, it is a performance. Can you not see the difference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

I think if I want to take my kids to a book reading, I should be able to. If you don't want me to, that's not your prerogative.

Sure. And we can point out how you are taking your kids to a book reading that relies on the vast systemic and historic oppression of women for “entertainment.”

I am going to keep asking this until someone answers with more than just saying "I feel this way.":


No one has explained how drag shows where performers dance to Cher, Beyonce, and Dolly is misogyny. Saying it is isn't evidence or an argument.

Keep in mine drag queens love these performers because they are naturally over the top feminine. Does that mean Dolly, Cher, and Bey are also misogynists and unworthy of feminist consideration? ETA; and they are propagating systemic and historic oppression of women?
Or--is it maybe just people using feminism in the most venal way possible as a cloak for their bigotry?

Appropriating and performing "female" is different than being a female who is a performer. In the case of the female performers, female is their identity. But drag queen isn't actually an identity, it is a performance. Can you not see the difference?

TJ Hooker isn’t a real cop. So? If Shatner wants to wear a police costume and tell my kid say no to drugs I’m not going to protest.

(That is the level of your argument.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

Pervert. This is not sexualized.

He/she wasn't saying that the story time is secualized but rather how it all started certainly was. Reading comprehension!

+1000

If it’s not sexualized then why are so many panties in a bunch?

Because of homophobia/transphobia? Anti-LGBT people think of the LGBT community and only think sex.

I have no dog in this fight and wouldn't necessarily not take my kid to a DGSH. But can we please stop with calling people homophobes and transphobes when they disagree with you and/or have a different view or comfort level. I certainly don't think everything in the gay or trans community is sexualized, but have you been to a drag show? I have many times. It was a great time and would go again, but to say it is not sexualized is just stupid. Not saying that a kid story hour would be, but I can hear other's opinions without assuming the worst about them.

This is about story time though and not an adult drag performance. Think more Donna Reed. That’s the sizzle factor. None at all. It’s like nana coming to be the mystery reader at school, except maybe more liner and bigger hair (maybe- don’t know your nana).

I was responding to the person who jumps to calling everyone who disagrees a homophobe or a transphobe. It's not productive.

So homophobia and transphobia having NOTHING to do with militia group thugs showing up at a kid's story time? OK!

That is not what was discussed when I (or you) responded and you know it. Own your comments. You have more integrity that way.

I said I thought the huge freakout over DQSH is largely due to homophobia/transphobia, not because DQSH has sexual content. I'm actually also one of the PPs who's personally iffy on DQSH. But there are a ton of things that parents can take their kids to that have sexual content and I don't see street fighting militia thugs trying to stop those. That leads me to think homophobia/transphobia probably plays a big role here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

I think if I want to take my kids to a book reading, I should be able to. If you don't want me to, that's not your prerogative.

Sure. And we can point out how you are taking your kids to a book reading that relies on the vast systemic and historic oppression of women for “entertainment.”

I am going to keep asking this until someone answers with more than just saying "I feel this way.":


No one has explained how drag shows where performers dance to Cher, Beyonce, and Dolly is misogyny. Saying it is isn't evidence or an argument.

Keep in mine drag queens love these performers because they are naturally over the top feminine. Does that mean Dolly, Cher, and Bey are also misogynists and unworthy of feminist consideration? ETA; and they are propagating systemic and historic oppression of women?
Or--is it maybe just people using feminism in the most venal way possible as a cloak for their bigotry?

Appropriating and performing "female" is different than being a female who is a performer. In the case of the female performers, female is their identity. But drag queen isn't actually an identity, it is a performance. Can you not see the difference?

Harry stiles, boy george, queen, prince, mick haggard, David Bowie, all Scottish men,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

Pervert. This is not sexualized.

He/she wasn't saying that the story time is secualized but rather how it all started certainly was. Reading comprehension!

+1000

If it’s not sexualized then why are so many panties in a bunch?

Because of homophobia/transphobia? Anti-LGBT people think of the LGBT community and only think sex.

I have no dog in this fight and wouldn't necessarily not take my kid to a DGSH. But can we please stop with calling people homophobes and transphobes when they disagree with you and/or have a different view or comfort level. I certainly don't think everything in the gay or trans community is sexualized, but have you been to a drag show? I have many times. It was a great time and would go again, but to say it is not sexualized is just stupid. Not saying that a kid story hour would be, but I can hear other's opinions without assuming the worst about them.

Except the people who have ginned up all of this stuff about drag queen story hour are not, and have not been, acting in good faith. They've just decided that today, they target the drag queens = and they've built a frothing mob as they've done it. None of them are dumb enough or sheltered enough to believe the things they're saying - and that now they've got other people parroting. They are political opportunists who think that this is the issue that'll win them power - who cares how stupid and craven.

Typical that you assume all people who disagree with you are incapable of reaching their own conclusions.

I thought drag was misogynist and was reading feminist literature about sexism in drag in the mid-2000s. There is a long history of feminist discussion on this topic, but I suspect you don’t actually care what women think.

Oh for gd's sake. I read Dworkin like every other feminist in the 90s. Of course I care what women think.

The thing is that the people harping on the allegely feminist critique of drag queen story hour - and just fk all of this nonsense for even making me write these words - may believe what they're saying, but it sure sounds like they're just looking for what they believe to be the left wing gotcha point here. And it's just stupid. It's just stupid.

The right wingers are craven opportunists. The people pretending to be left wingers should pick better company.

Thank you. I can’t believe I’ve wasted part of today on this bait. Ffs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

Pervert. This is not sexualized.

He/she wasn't saying that the story time is secualized but rather how it all started certainly was. Reading comprehension!

+1000

If it’s not sexualized then why are so many panties in a bunch?

Because of homophobia/transphobia? Anti-LGBT people think of the LGBT community and only think sex.

I have no dog in this fight and wouldn't necessarily not take my kid to a DGSH. But can we please stop with calling people homophobes and transphobes when they disagree with you and/or have a different view or comfort level. I certainly don't think everything in the gay or trans community is sexualized, but have you been to a drag show? I have many times. It was a great time and would go again, but to say it is not sexualized is just stupid. Not saying that a kid story hour would be, but I can hear other's opinions without assuming the worst about them.

This is about story time though and not an adult drag performance. Think more Donna Reed. That’s the sizzle factor. None at all. It’s like nana coming to be the mystery reader at school, except maybe more liner and bigger hair (maybe- don’t know your nana).

I was responding to the person who jumps to calling everyone who disagrees a homophobe or a transphobe. It's not productive.

Yes, and you also shared why you thought drag was inherently sexual based on going to drag shows.

Your reading comprehension is lacking. Please do better. I said drag shows are sexualized which they are. I never said story time was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

I think if I want to take my kids to a book reading, I should be able to. If you don't want me to, that's not your prerogative.

Sure. And we can point out how you are taking your kids to a book reading that relies on the vast systemic and historic oppression of women for “entertainment.”

I am going to keep asking this until someone answers with more than just saying "I feel this way.":


No one has explained how drag shows where performers dance to Cher, Beyonce, and Dolly is misogyny. Saying it is isn't evidence or an argument.

Keep in mine drag queens love these performers because they are naturally over the top feminine. Does that mean Dolly, Cher, and Bey are also misogynists and unworthy of feminist consideration? ETA; and they are propagating systemic and historic oppression of women?
Or--is it maybe just people using feminism in the most venal way possible as a cloak for their bigotry?

Appropriating and performing "female" is different than being a female who is a performer. In the case of the female performers, female is their identity. But drag queen isn't actually an identity, it is a performance. Can you not see the difference?

So when gay actors perform straight stereotypical, but exaggerated straight roles, like say, Neil Patrick Harris playing womanizing Barney Stinson, is that appropriation? After all, being straight isn't NPH's identity?

How about Dustin Hoffman playing Tootsie, or Robin Williams playing Mrs. Doubtfire, both of them playing men playing to stereotypes of uptight, straight-laced women?

Or how about black actors playing roles in Hamilton, or white-as Mel Gibson playing Christ, or etc etc?

If it is okay for Dolly and Bey and Cher to be Dolly and Bey and Cher, why can't men perform as them as performers have been doing for forever--by playing NOT their identities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As long as it is all voluntary and appropriately advertised, then I don’t see the problem.

If people want to take their kids to this, that’s okay. If people don’t want to take their kids, that’s okay too. What is not okay is if people are not provided options to decide for themselves.

So I would not be a fan of the public library just advertising a “story hour” and you would not be able to know if it was or was not a “drag queen story hour”.

It is important to distinguish this from just a trans person reading stories, which is different because a “drag queen” is a specific persona and in effect a costume.

That's an interesting point. But the library wouldn't need to disclose in advance that Elsa or Alice in Wonderland might show up at story time. Why is that, do you think? What is it about the persona of a Drag Queen that differentiates it from just any fictional female character? Could it be that they are males who are pantomiming female sexuality, and those personas exist to entertain adult patrons in adult spaces regarding sexual themes?

A drag performer is traditionally a cisgender gay man. Some trans people as well as cisgender women do drag now as well. The thing that some people that aren't familiar with drag don't seem to understand is that a drag queen is a character putting on a performance.

A trans woman normally takes hormones which changes the shape of her body/face and make her grow breasts as well as a host of other things that happen on estrogen. There are a lot of possible surgeries that trans women can get. Some get all, some get none. Trans women live their entire lives as women. Sometimes you'll see a really cringy looking trans woman but that's usually early in transition. After a few years, most have the goal of just blending in as best as they can because they just want to live a normal life like they did before. But now as a woman because that matches how they felt inside.

When a drag queen takes off the costume, he's a man under it. A trans woman looks like (or does her best to look like) and lives as a woman all the time.

If you are a cisgender man portraying a caricature of women to children, this is helpful exactly…how? These story times are being branded as a way to promote acceptance. The proponents of drag queen story time can’t seem to agree on who exactly the drag queens are and what are their purpose at a story time is. You all might want to tighten up your story.

I'm not a cisgender man that does drag. I'm a trans woman. I've never once done a drag performance nor do I have any desire to do so. I have no problem watching drag or taking my children to a DQ Story Hour though. It's literally just a man in a dress reading a kid's book.

It's more than that though. You can't just divorce drag from its history and context as a sexualized performative caricature of females by and for adult males, and claim it's for kids now. Just like you can't host a minstrel story hour and claim it's just a guy in a costume reading a book.

I think if I want to take my kids to a book reading, I should be able to. If you don't want me to, that's not your prerogative.

Sure. And we can point out how you are taking your kids to a book reading that relies on the vast systemic and historic oppression of women for “entertainment.”

I am going to keep asking this until someone answers with more than just saying "I feel this way.":


No one has explained how drag shows where performers dance to Cher, Beyonce, and Dolly is misogyny. Saying it is isn't evidence or an argument.

Keep in mine drag queens love these performers because they are naturally over the top feminine. Does that mean Dolly, Cher, and Bey are also misogynists and unworthy of feminist consideration? ETA; and they are propagating systemic and historic oppression of women?
Or--is it maybe just people using feminism in the most venal way possible as a cloak for their bigotry?

Appropriating and performing "female" is different than being a female who is a performer. In the case of the female performers, female is their identity. But drag queen isn't actually an identity, it is a performance. Can you not see the difference?

Harry stiles, boy george, queen, prince, mick haggard, David Bowie, all Scottish men,

Oh yes...PP here who asked about Cher, Dolly etc. Is it appropriation for these men to take on so much of the stereotypical female attributes? Or for Annie Lennox to have worn typically male short hair, suits, and leathers?