FCPS comprehensive boundary review

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Little did we know that when Reid kept repeating “imagine the possibilities” that none of the possibilities she wants us to imagine will improve our kids’ education.

I thought everybody, both left and right, thought Reid was the wrong candidate for the SB to hire? I remember both #OpenFCPS types and the NAACP freaking out about her (for different reasons).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Instead of putting in new boundaries, spend the money on extra staff at the struggling schools.

TEACH THE KIDS. IF THEY ARE DISCIPLINE PROBLEMS, TAKE ACTION. ADDRESS THE PROBLEM INSTEAD OF COVERING IT UP AND SPREADING IT AROUND.

There are lots of educational studies that by having a mix of high, mid, and low performers tends to raise the overall performance of the school. Some of these schools are unbalanced.

I

Please feel free to post links to these studies. Most schools in FCPS have a mix of all of these kinds of students. If our SB would eliminate IB and the pupil placement it enables, more of the schools would have this. And, those that do not are not going to be helped with this boundary study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

So, you think that McLean should pony up kids to help Justice? Do you hear yourself?

I've said it repeatedly: The Superintendent and School Board need to address and fix the problem The problem is not solved by pouring in more affluent kids. The problem is solved by addressing the needs of the current students and admitting what the problem is. I don't know anything about Glasgow, but if there is a serious problem there it should be addressed THERE. Spreading the problem around will not fix it.

I own property in the area. The issue with Glasgow is that it was rebuilt from scratch to accommodate almost 1700 kids, including AAP kids, but a lot of the student body is undisciplined and unruly. The community just wants to reduce the enrollment, even if it leaves the school technically under-enrolled, so the administration has fewer kids to supervise.

Both Holmes and Poe, which are nearby, have spare capacity and they are also 6-8 middle schools like Glasgow. The challenge is that Holmes and Poe are already split feeders (Holmes to Annandale and Edison and Poe to Annandale and Falls Church) and moving Glasgow kids there would turn them into three-way split feeders unless the Justice boundaries also change. In addition, the Glasgow neighborhoods closest to Holmes and Poe are mostly single-family areas, so they could end up reducing the number of kids at Glasgow but increasing the concentration of poverty. But I gather some would support that as long as the enrollment is smaller.

Reid wants to make this school the model for all FCPS middle schools.

Giant, unmanageable 6th through 8th grade monstrosities with around 2000 students each.

The 7th-8th middle schools are barely holding the discipline together, and the three 6th-7th-8th middle schools are out of control.

Yet Reid wants that model to go county wide.

It makes no sense fot the school board to expand all the middle schools to 2000 students.

APS has 6-8 middle schools and most of them have enrollments smaller than many FCPS 7-8 middle schools.

But they have the buildings they have, and we have the buildings we have. I don’t know how we possibly have 6-8 middle schools in FCPS without massive upheaval and in some cases monster-size schools.

If they move 6th grade to middle schools, most of the middle schools will go from around 1100-1400 students, to 1600-2100 students. Discipline issues will skyrocket with middle schools of that size enrollment.

APS is a tiny district compared to FCPS and has far fewer households with school aged children.

You cannot compare the 2 districts on this one, because their student composition is so different from FCPS.

However, we can compare the middle schools in FCPS. In general, the 6th-8th middle schools on average are far less successful than most of the 7th-8th middle schools, with far more discipline issues.

The only reason to add 6th to middle school is if Reid wants to pull the quality of all FCPS middle schools downward to the lowest common denominator.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From the follow up email to people who attended the in person meeting at Madison:

What We Heard from You

During the meeting, you emphasized several key priorities, including:

Minimizing Student Disruption: Minimizing disruption for currently-enrolled students.

Identifying Alternative Solutions: Identifying solutions to improve distribution of resources and educational programs as an alternative to simply adjusting boundaries.

Transportation and Proximity: Minimizing travel times and promoting walkable communities.

Sounds like a repeat drumbeat of what FCPS residents want across the board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

So, you think that McLean should pony up kids to help Justice? Do you hear yourself?

I've said it repeatedly: The Superintendent and School Board need to address and fix the problem The problem is not solved by pouring in more affluent kids. The problem is solved by addressing the needs of the current students and admitting what the problem is. I don't know anything about Glasgow, but if there is a serious problem there it should be addressed THERE. Spreading the problem around will not fix it.

I own property in the area. The issue with Glasgow is that it was rebuilt from scratch to accommodate almost 1700 kids, including AAP kids, but a lot of the student body is undisciplined and unruly. The community just wants to reduce the enrollment, even if it leaves the school technically under-enrolled, so the administration has fewer kids to supervise.

Both Holmes and Poe, which are nearby, have spare capacity and they are also 6-8 middle schools like Glasgow. The challenge is that Holmes and Poe are already split feeders (Holmes to Annandale and Edison and Poe to Annandale and Falls Church) and moving Glasgow kids there would turn them into three-way split feeders unless the Justice boundaries also change. In addition, the Glasgow neighborhoods closest to Holmes and Poe are mostly single-family areas, so they could end up reducing the number of kids at Glasgow but increasing the concentration of poverty. But I gather some would support that as long as the enrollment is smaller.

Reid wants to make this school the model for all FCPS middle schools.

Giant, unmanageable 6th through 8th grade monstrosities with around 2000 students each.

The 7th-8th middle schools are barely holding the discipline together, and the three 6th-7th-8th middle schools are out of control.

Yet Reid wants that model to go county wide.

It makes no sense fot the school board to expand all the middle schools to 2000 students.

APS has 6-8 middle schools and most of them have enrollments smaller than many FCPS 7-8 middle schools.

But they have the buildings they have, and we have the buildings we have. I don’t know how we possibly have 6-8 middle schools in FCPS without massive upheaval and in some cases monster-size schools.

If they move 6th grade to middle schools, most of the middle schools will go from around 1100-1400 students, to 1600-2100 students. Discipline issues will skyrocket with middle schools of that size enrollment.

APS is a tiny district compared to FCPS and has far fewer households with school aged children.

You cannot compare the 2 districts on this one, because their student composition is so different from FCPS.

However, we can compare the middle schools in FCPS. In general, the 6th-8th middle schools on average are far less successful than most of the 7th-8th middle schools, with far more discipline issues.

The only reason to add 6th to middle school is if Reid wants to pull the quality of all FCPS middle schools downward to the lowest common denominator.

So you agree that Glasgow is too big and needs to be fixed.

And the MS that are currently 6th-8th have, as you say, a very different composition than most of the rest of FCPS MS.

The lack of reasoning skills on display in this thread is astounding. I get that re-boundarying is an emotional issue, but it’s clear many of you cannot put together coherent arguments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

So, you think that McLean should pony up kids to help Justice? Do you hear yourself?

I've said it repeatedly: The Superintendent and School Board need to address and fix the problem The problem is not solved by pouring in more affluent kids. The problem is solved by addressing the needs of the current students and admitting what the problem is. I don't know anything about Glasgow, but if there is a serious problem there it should be addressed THERE. Spreading the problem around will not fix it.

I own property in the area. The issue with Glasgow is that it was rebuilt from scratch to accommodate almost 1700 kids, including AAP kids, but a lot of the student body is undisciplined and unruly. The community just wants to reduce the enrollment, even if it leaves the school technically under-enrolled, so the administration has fewer kids to supervise.

Both Holmes and Poe, which are nearby, have spare capacity and they are also 6-8 middle schools like Glasgow. The challenge is that Holmes and Poe are already split feeders (Holmes to Annandale and Edison and Poe to Annandale and Falls Church) and moving Glasgow kids there would turn them into three-way split feeders unless the Justice boundaries also change. In addition, the Glasgow neighborhoods closest to Holmes and Poe are mostly single-family areas, so they could end up reducing the number of kids at Glasgow but increasing the concentration of poverty. But I gather some would support that as long as the enrollment is smaller.

Reid wants to make this school the model for all FCPS middle schools.

Giant, unmanageable 6th through 8th grade monstrosities with around 2000 students each.

The 7th-8th middle schools are barely holding the discipline together, and the three 6th-7th-8th middle schools are out of control.

Yet Reid wants that model to go county wide.

It makes no sense fot the school board to expand all the middle schools to 2000 students.

APS has 6-8 middle schools and most of them have enrollments smaller than many FCPS 7-8 middle schools.

But they have the buildings they have, and we have the buildings we have. I don’t know how we possibly have 6-8 middle schools in FCPS without massive upheaval and in some cases monster-size schools.

If they move 6th grade to middle schools, most of the middle schools will go from around 1100-1400 students, to 1600-2100 students. Discipline issues will skyrocket with middle schools of that size enrollment.

APS is a tiny district compared to FCPS and has far fewer households with school aged children.

You cannot compare the 2 districts on this one, because their student composition is so different from FCPS.

However, we can compare the middle schools in FCPS. In general, the 6th-8th middle schools on average are far less successful than most of the 7th-8th middle schools, with far more discipline issues.

The only reason to add 6th to middle school is if Reid wants to pull the quality of all FCPS middle schools downward to the lowest common denominator.

This. They should look for ways to get the three 6-8 schools to be 7-8th like the rest of the County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

So, you think that McLean should pony up kids to help Justice? Do you hear yourself?

I've said it repeatedly: The Superintendent and School Board need to address and fix the problem The problem is not solved by pouring in more affluent kids. The problem is solved by addressing the needs of the current students and admitting what the problem is. I don't know anything about Glasgow, but if there is a serious problem there it should be addressed THERE. Spreading the problem around will not fix it.

I own property in the area. The issue with Glasgow is that it was rebuilt from scratch to accommodate almost 1700 kids, including AAP kids, but a lot of the student body is undisciplined and unruly. The community just wants to reduce the enrollment, even if it leaves the school technically under-enrolled, so the administration has fewer kids to supervise.

Both Holmes and Poe, which are nearby, have spare capacity and they are also 6-8 middle schools like Glasgow. The challenge is that Holmes and Poe are already split feeders (Holmes to Annandale and Edison and Poe to Annandale and Falls Church) and moving Glasgow kids there would turn them into three-way split feeders unless the Justice boundaries also change. In addition, the Glasgow neighborhoods closest to Holmes and Poe are mostly single-family areas, so they could end up reducing the number of kids at Glasgow but increasing the concentration of poverty. But I gather some would support that as long as the enrollment is smaller.

Reid wants to make this school the model for all FCPS middle schools.

Giant, unmanageable 6th through 8th grade monstrosities with around 2000 students each.

The 7th-8th middle schools are barely holding the discipline together, and the three 6th-7th-8th middle schools are out of control.

Yet Reid wants that model to go county wide.

It makes no sense fot the school board to expand all the middle schools to 2000 students.

APS has 6-8 middle schools and most of them have enrollments smaller than many FCPS 7-8 middle schools.

But they have the buildings they have, and we have the buildings we have. I don’t know how we possibly have 6-8 middle schools in FCPS without massive upheaval and in some cases monster-size schools.

If they move 6th grade to middle schools, most of the middle schools will go from around 1100-1400 students, to 1600-2100 students. Discipline issues will skyrocket with middle schools of that size enrollment.

APS is a tiny district compared to FCPS and has far fewer households with school aged children.

You cannot compare the 2 districts on this one, because their student composition is so different from FCPS.

However, we can compare the middle schools in FCPS. In general, the 6th-8th middle schools on average are far less successful than most of the 7th-8th middle schools, with far more discipline issues.

The only reason to add 6th to middle school is if Reid wants to pull the quality of all FCPS middle schools downward to the lowest common denominator.

So you agree that Glasgow is too big and needs to be fixed.

And the MS that are currently 6th-8th have, as you say, a very different composition than most of the rest of FCPS MS.

The lack of reasoning skills on display in this thread is astounding. I get that re-boundarying is an emotional issue, but it’s clear many of you cannot put together coherent arguments.

Is Jackson middle school of similar composition? I am sure there are 7-8th in FCPS that are similar in composition to Glasgow. I am not even sure if Poe or Holmes is similar in composition to Glasgow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

So, you think that McLean should pony up kids to help Justice? Do you hear yourself?

I've said it repeatedly: The Superintendent and School Board need to address and fix the problem The problem is not solved by pouring in more affluent kids. The problem is solved by addressing the needs of the current students and admitting what the problem is. I don't know anything about Glasgow, but if there is a serious problem there it should be addressed THERE. Spreading the problem around will not fix it.

I own property in the area. The issue with Glasgow is that it was rebuilt from scratch to accommodate almost 1700 kids, including AAP kids, but a lot of the student body is undisciplined and unruly. The community just wants to reduce the enrollment, even if it leaves the school technically under-enrolled, so the administration has fewer kids to supervise.

Both Holmes and Poe, which are nearby, have spare capacity and they are also 6-8 middle schools like Glasgow. The challenge is that Holmes and Poe are already split feeders (Holmes to Annandale and Edison and Poe to Annandale and Falls Church) and moving Glasgow kids there would turn them into three-way split feeders unless the Justice boundaries also change. In addition, the Glasgow neighborhoods closest to Holmes and Poe are mostly single-family areas, so they could end up reducing the number of kids at Glasgow but increasing the concentration of poverty. But I gather some would support that as long as the enrollment is smaller.

Reid wants to make this school the model for all FCPS middle schools.

Giant, unmanageable 6th through 8th grade monstrosities with around 2000 students each.

The 7th-8th middle schools are barely holding the discipline together, and the three 6th-7th-8th middle schools are out of control.

Yet Reid wants that model to go county wide.

It makes no sense fot the school board to expand all the middle schools to 2000 students.

APS has 6-8 middle schools and most of them have enrollments smaller than many FCPS 7-8 middle schools.

But they have the buildings they have, and we have the buildings we have. I don’t know how we possibly have 6-8 middle schools in FCPS without massive upheaval and in some cases monster-size schools.

If they move 6th grade to middle schools, most of the middle schools will go from around 1100-1400 students, to 1600-2100 students. Discipline issues will skyrocket with middle schools of that size enrollment.

APS is a tiny district compared to FCPS and has far fewer households with school aged children.

You cannot compare the 2 districts on this one, because their student composition is so different from FCPS.

However, we can compare the middle schools in FCPS. In general, the 6th-8th middle schools on average are far less successful than most of the 7th-8th middle schools, with far more discipline issues.

The only reason to add 6th to middle school is if Reid wants to pull the quality of all FCPS middle schools downward to the lowest common denominator.

So you agree that Glasgow is too big and needs to be fixed.

And the MS that are currently 6th-8th have, as you say, a very different composition than most of the rest of FCPS MS.

The lack of reasoning skills on display in this thread is astounding. I get that re-boundarying is an emotional issue, but it’s clear many of you cannot put together coherent arguments.

Is Jackson middle school of similar composition? I am sure there are 7-8th in FCPS that are similar in composition to Glasgow. I am not even sure if Poe or Holmes is similar in composition to Glasgow.

If you are looking at race, they are similar in demographics for all those schools. Holmes and Poe (3 grades) have about 900 kids and Glasgow 1800 kids. Jackson is two grades with 1000 kids.

The big difference is that Glasgow's population is 94% economically disadvantaged and Poe is 91%. Jackson is 59% and Holmes 67%.

The economically disadvantaged is the issue (besides learning a new language). My friend taught at Glasgow, and besides the MS13 gangs and violence they have to educate kids that have never had a single book in their home. Parents and PTOs put a lot into schools, time and money. You are talking about a school that completely lacks even that resource by its population makeup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

So, you think that McLean should pony up kids to help Justice? Do you hear yourself?

I've said it repeatedly: The Superintendent and School Board need to address and fix the problem The problem is not solved by pouring in more affluent kids. The problem is solved by addressing the needs of the current students and admitting what the problem is. I don't know anything about Glasgow, but if there is a serious problem there it should be addressed THERE. Spreading the problem around will not fix it.

I own property in the area. The issue with Glasgow is that it was rebuilt from scratch to accommodate almost 1700 kids, including AAP kids, but a lot of the student body is undisciplined and unruly. The community just wants to reduce the enrollment, even if it leaves the school technically under-enrolled, so the administration has fewer kids to supervise.

Both Holmes and Poe, which are nearby, have spare capacity and they are also 6-8 middle schools like Glasgow. The challenge is that Holmes and Poe are already split feeders (Holmes to Annandale and Edison and Poe to Annandale and Falls Church) and moving Glasgow kids there would turn them into three-way split feeders unless the Justice boundaries also change. In addition, the Glasgow neighborhoods closest to Holmes and Poe are mostly single-family areas, so they could end up reducing the number of kids at Glasgow but increasing the concentration of poverty. But I gather some would support that as long as the enrollment is smaller.

Reid wants to make this school the model for all FCPS middle schools.

Giant, unmanageable 6th through 8th grade monstrosities with around 2000 students each.

The 7th-8th middle schools are barely holding the discipline together, and the three 6th-7th-8th middle schools are out of control.

Yet Reid wants that model to go county wide.

It makes no sense fot the school board to expand all the middle schools to 2000 students.

APS has 6-8 middle schools and most of them have enrollments smaller than many FCPS 7-8 middle schools.

But they have the buildings they have, and we have the buildings we have. I don’t know how we possibly have 6-8 middle schools in FCPS without massive upheaval and in some cases monster-size schools.

If they move 6th grade to middle schools, most of the middle schools will go from around 1100-1400 students, to 1600-2100 students. Discipline issues will skyrocket with middle schools of that size enrollment.

APS is a tiny district compared to FCPS and has far fewer households with school aged children.

You cannot compare the 2 districts on this one, because their student composition is so different from FCPS.

However, we can compare the middle schools in FCPS. In general, the 6th-8th middle schools on average are far less successful than most of the 7th-8th middle schools, with far more discipline issues.

The only reason to add 6th to middle school is if Reid wants to pull the quality of all FCPS middle schools downward to the lowest common denominator.

So you agree that Glasgow is too big and needs to be fixed.

And the MS that are currently 6th-8th have, as you say, a very different composition than most of the rest of FCPS MS.

The lack of reasoning skills on display in this thread is astounding. I get that re-boundarying is an emotional issue, but it’s clear many of you cannot put together coherent arguments.

I’m an earlier poster but not the poster to whom you’re responding. If they move the AAP kids from Holmes and Poe back to those schools, Glasgow’s enrollment would go down immediately. Holmes, in particular, sends a lot of kids to Glasgow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They just changed the boundaries for McLean HS in 2021 and for the elementary school feeders last year. If there's any area that deserves a pass from additional boundary changes, and instead needs a real plan to deal with the growth in and near Tysons, it's that pyramid. We're not falling for the line about how no one has looked at boundaries in 40 years, because that's not the case where our pyramid is concerned.

How do you plan to deal with growth in and near Tysons without considering boundary changes for McLean and Langley?

McLean has already had a boundary change in 2021. It's past time to start planning for a renovation and addition, given that it serves a growth area. Other schools that haven't had boundary changes can take their turn with boundary adjustments if they want.

Why build an addition when Langley and Fall Church High Schools have space to accommodate McLean’s overage? Seems like a waste of resources.

If there was any waste of resources, it was expanding Langley and Falls Church when the growth is in the Tysons/McLean area. Those schools may well see more kids over time, but McLean - which serves a growing area but has or will have the smallest number of permanent seats of any FCPS high school - fully deserves an addition.

Here's what the now-Chair of the School Board said in writing back in 2019:

"Though it may take years to complete, we should begin scoping for a permanent addition/expansion to McLean High School to further address capacity issues. That may require adjusting the Capital Improvement Program (CIP) renovation calendar and including additional funding for planning and construction in the next school bond referendum. There has been some chatter about a modular trailer being relocated to McLean High School using funds from the 2019 school bond referendum. This would be a welcome alternative to a traditional classroom trailer, but it is important that this capacity stopgap be tied directly to plans for a physical expansion of McLean High School – and that it not be used as a permanent solution."

​

The McLean islands can be moved. Boundaries can be changed to take from McLean and shift more towards Langley and Falls Church. Hence "comprehensive" boundary change.

Agree. If McLean is over capacity using trailers, then students should be shifted to nearby schools with capacity. If Tyson’s does generate more HS students, then more neighborhoods should be shifted so that we take advantage of existing capacity before considering expansions or new schools. Surely, DCUM won’t have qualms sending McLean kids to nearby Langley.

No objection, and Langley can take the attendance island without going overcapacity.

Longer term, McLean will need an expansion. Borderline criminal that it’s been neglected for so long, while they expand schools with declining populations.

Longer term? It’s needed an expansion for years, and certainly more so than Justice and Madison, each of which was recently expanded outside the queue.

Someone talked earlier about not threading a needle. That’s exactly what you’re doing here by suggesting FCPS is going to move more McLean kids to Langley without also moving part of Langley to Herndon. Some would argue they deliberately under-invest in McLean (which will have the smallest permanent capacity of any FCPS high school despite serving growing areas in Tysons, West Falls Church, and downtown McLean) precisely because they want to move Langley kids into Herndon and need more McLean kids at Langley to justify that.

I’m trying to thread zero needles. McLean should’ve had a renovation a long time ago. I thought I made that clear when I said it was borderline criminal that they haven’t gotten one yet.

I’ve always supported that. Since I don’t have a Time Machine and it takes a while to build an expansion, then the alternatives are keeping the current boundaries, which I support, or moving the attendance island to Langley.

I’m not interested in anyone moving. I think they’re being foolish, but I was just pointing out that Langley can absorb the entire western island and not be overcapacity.

McLean did have a renovation in the 2000’s. That may qualify for “a long time ago”.

I think under the previous consultant’s metric, McLean wouldn’t get another renovation until roughly 2045 at the earliest. But didn’t FCPS just hire a brand new consultant to come up with an updated renovation/replacement queue?

My guess is that for the high schools, McLean, Annandale, etc will be near the front of the this new queue. So a renovation or rebuild within the next ten years. And maybe the Wilston School could become another middle school to relieve Glasgow. That building is preserved in its original state and well maintained, so an upgrade there shouldn’t be too expensive.

I do hope the boundary consultant and committee and the new facilities consultant are coordinating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

So, you think that McLean should pony up kids to help Justice? Do you hear yourself?

I've said it repeatedly: The Superintendent and School Board need to address and fix the problem The problem is not solved by pouring in more affluent kids. The problem is solved by addressing the needs of the current students and admitting what the problem is. I don't know anything about Glasgow, but if there is a serious problem there it should be addressed THERE. Spreading the problem around will not fix it.

I own property in the area. The issue with Glasgow is that it was rebuilt from scratch to accommodate almost 1700 kids, including AAP kids, but a lot of the student body is undisciplined and unruly. The community just wants to reduce the enrollment, even if it leaves the school technically under-enrolled, so the administration has fewer kids to supervise.

Both Holmes and Poe, which are nearby, have spare capacity and they are also 6-8 middle schools like Glasgow. The challenge is that Holmes and Poe are already split feeders (Holmes to Annandale and Edison and Poe to Annandale and Falls Church) and moving Glasgow kids there would turn them into three-way split feeders unless the Justice boundaries also change. In addition, the Glasgow neighborhoods closest to Holmes and Poe are mostly single-family areas, so they could end up reducing the number of kids at Glasgow but increasing the concentration of poverty. But I gather some would support that as long as the enrollment is smaller.

Reid wants to make this school the model for all FCPS middle schools.

Giant, unmanageable 6th through 8th grade monstrosities with around 2000 students each.

The 7th-8th middle schools are barely holding the discipline together, and the three 6th-7th-8th middle schools are out of control.

Yet Reid wants that model to go county wide.

It makes no sense fot the school board to expand all the middle schools to 2000 students.

APS has 6-8 middle schools and most of them have enrollments smaller than many FCPS 7-8 middle schools.

But they have the buildings they have, and we have the buildings we have. I don’t know how we possibly have 6-8 middle schools in FCPS without massive upheaval and in some cases monster-size schools.

If they move 6th grade to middle schools, most of the middle schools will go from around 1100-1400 students, to 1600-2100 students. Discipline issues will skyrocket with middle schools of that size enrollment.

APS is a tiny district compared to FCPS and has far fewer households with school aged children.

You cannot compare the 2 districts on this one, because their student composition is so different from FCPS.

However, we can compare the middle schools in FCPS. In general, the 6th-8th middle schools on average are far less successful than most of the 7th-8th middle schools, with far more discipline issues.

The only reason to add 6th to middle school is if Reid wants to pull the quality of all FCPS middle schools downward to the lowest common denominator.

So you agree that Glasgow is too big and needs to be fixed.

And the MS that are currently 6th-8th have, as you say, a very different composition than most of the rest of FCPS MS.

The lack of reasoning skills on display in this thread is astounding. I get that re-boundarying is an emotional issue, but it’s clear many of you cannot put together coherent arguments.

It sounds like you did not read the post you are responding to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They just changed the boundaries for McLean HS in 2021 and for the elementary school feeders last year. If there's any area that deserves a pass from additional boundary changes, and instead needs a real plan to deal with the growth in and near Tysons, it's that pyramid. We're not falling for the line about how no one has looked at boundaries in 40 years, because that's not the case where our pyramid is concerned.

How do you plan to deal with growth in and near Tysons without considering boundary changes for McLean and Langley?

McLean has already had a boundary change in 2021. It's past time to start planning for a renovation and addition, given that it serves a growth area. Other schools that haven't had boundary changes can take their turn with boundary adjustments if they want.

Why build an addition when Langley and Fall Church High Schools have space to accommodate McLean’s overage? Seems like a waste of resources.

If there was any waste of resources, it was expanding Langley and Falls Church when the growth is in the Tysons/McLean area. Those schools may well see more kids over time, but McLean - which serves a growing area but has or will have the smallest number of permanent seats of any FCPS high school - fully deserves an addition.

Here's what the now-Chair of the School Board said in writing back in 2019:

"Though it may take years to complete, we should begin scoping for a permanent addition/expansion to McLean High School to further address capacity issues. That may require adjusting the Capital Improvement Program (CIP) renovation calendar and including additional funding for planning and construction in the next school bond referendum. There has been some chatter about a modular trailer being relocated to McLean High School using funds from the 2019 school bond referendum. This would be a welcome alternative to a traditional classroom trailer, but it is important that this capacity stopgap be tied directly to plans for a physical expansion of McLean High School – and that it not be used as a permanent solution."

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The McLean islands can be moved. Boundaries can be changed to take from McLean and shift more towards Langley and Falls Church. Hence "comprehensive" boundary change.

Agree. If McLean is over capacity using trailers, then students should be shifted to nearby schools with capacity. If Tyson’s does generate more HS students, then more neighborhoods should be shifted so that we take advantage of existing capacity before considering expansions or new schools. Surely, DCUM won’t have qualms sending McLean kids to nearby Langley.

No objection, and Langley can take the attendance island without going overcapacity.

Longer term, McLean will need an expansion. Borderline criminal that it’s been neglected for so long, while they expand schools with declining populations.

Longer term? It’s needed an expansion for years, and certainly more so than Justice and Madison, each of which was recently expanded outside the queue.

Someone talked earlier about not threading a needle. That’s exactly what you’re doing here by suggesting FCPS is going to move more McLean kids to Langley without also moving part of Langley to Herndon. Some would argue they deliberately under-invest in McLean (which will have the smallest permanent capacity of any FCPS high school despite serving growing areas in Tysons, West Falls Church, and downtown McLean) precisely because they want to move Langley kids into Herndon and need more McLean kids at Langley to justify that.

I’m trying to thread zero needles. McLean should’ve had a renovation a long time ago. I thought I made that clear when I said it was borderline criminal that they haven’t gotten one yet.

I’ve always supported that. Since I don’t have a Time Machine and it takes a while to build an expansion, then the alternatives are keeping the current boundaries, which I support, or moving the attendance island to Langley.

I’m not interested in anyone moving. I think they’re being foolish, but I was just pointing out that Langley can absorb the entire western island and not be overcapacity.

McLean did have a renovation in the 2000’s. That may qualify for “a long time ago”.

I think under the previous consultant’s metric, McLean wouldn’t get another renovation until roughly 2045 at the earliest. But didn’t FCPS just hire a brand new consultant to come up with an updated renovation/replacement queue?

My guess is that for the high schools, McLean, Annandale, etc will be near the front of the this new queue. So a renovation or rebuild within the next ten years. And maybe the Wilston School could become another middle school to relieve Glasgow. That building is preserved in its original state and well maintained, so an upgrade there shouldn’t be too expensive.

I do hope the boundary consultant and committee and the new facilities consultant are coordinating.

I can almost guarantee that they are not coordinating. That would make way too much sense for this circus.

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Anonymous wrote:They just changed the boundaries for McLean HS in 2021 and for the elementary school feeders last year. If there's any area that deserves a pass from additional boundary changes, and instead needs a real plan to deal with the growth in and near Tysons, it's that pyramid. We're not falling for the line about how no one has looked at boundaries in 40 years, because that's not the case where our pyramid is concerned.

How do you plan to deal with growth in and near Tysons without considering boundary changes for McLean and Langley?

McLean has already had a boundary change in 2021. It's past time to start planning for a renovation and addition, given that it serves a growth area. Other schools that haven't had boundary changes can take their turn with boundary adjustments if they want.

Why build an addition when Langley and Fall Church High Schools have space to accommodate McLean’s overage? Seems like a waste of resources.

If there was any waste of resources, it was expanding Langley and Falls Church when the growth is in the Tysons/McLean area. Those schools may well see more kids over time, but McLean - which serves a growing area but has or will have the smallest number of permanent seats of any FCPS high school - fully deserves an addition.

Here's what the now-Chair of the School Board said in writing back in 2019:

"Though it may take years to complete, we should begin scoping for a permanent addition/expansion to McLean High School to further address capacity issues. That may require adjusting the Capital Improvement Program (CIP) renovation calendar and including additional funding for planning and construction in the next school bond referendum. There has been some chatter about a modular trailer being relocated to McLean High School using funds from the 2019 school bond referendum. This would be a welcome alternative to a traditional classroom trailer, but it is important that this capacity stopgap be tied directly to plans for a physical expansion of McLean High School – and that it not be used as a permanent solution."

​

The McLean islands can be moved. Boundaries can be changed to take from McLean and shift more towards Langley and Falls Church. Hence "comprehensive" boundary change.

Agree. If McLean is over capacity using trailers, then students should be shifted to nearby schools with capacity. If Tyson’s does generate more HS students, then more neighborhoods should be shifted so that we take advantage of existing capacity before considering expansions or new schools. Surely, DCUM won’t have qualms sending McLean kids to nearby Langley.

No objection, and Langley can take the attendance island without going overcapacity.

Longer term, McLean will need an expansion. Borderline criminal that it’s been neglected for so long, while they expand schools with declining populations.

Longer term? It’s needed an expansion for years, and certainly more so than Justice and Madison, each of which was recently expanded outside the queue.

Someone talked earlier about not threading a needle. That’s exactly what you’re doing here by suggesting FCPS is going to move more McLean kids to Langley without also moving part of Langley to Herndon. Some would argue they deliberately under-invest in McLean (which will have the smallest permanent capacity of any FCPS high school despite serving growing areas in Tysons, West Falls Church, and downtown McLean) precisely because they want to move Langley kids into Herndon and need more McLean kids at Langley to justify that.

I’m trying to thread zero needles. McLean should’ve had a renovation a long time ago. I thought I made that clear when I said it was borderline criminal that they haven’t gotten one yet.

I’ve always supported that. Since I don’t have a Time Machine and it takes a while to build an expansion, then the alternatives are keeping the current boundaries, which I support, or moving the attendance island to Langley.

I’m not interested in anyone moving. I think they’re being foolish, but I was just pointing out that Langley can absorb the entire western island and not be overcapacity.

McLean did have a renovation in the 2000’s. That may qualify for “a long time ago”.

I think under the previous consultant’s metric, McLean wouldn’t get another renovation until roughly 2045 at the earliest. But didn’t FCPS just hire a brand new consultant to come up with an updated renovation/replacement queue?

My guess is that for the high schools, McLean, Annandale, etc will be near the front of the this new queue. So a renovation or rebuild within the next ten years. And maybe the Wilston School could become another middle school to relieve Glasgow. That building is preserved in its original state and well maintained, so an upgrade there shouldn’t be too expensive.

I do hope the boundary consultant and committee and the new facilities consultant are coordinating.

Why does FCPS keep $500,000 consultants for this stuff?

Isn't there anyone at Gatehouse that can drive to each of the schools, look at them and say "Yep, McLean is exploding at the seams and Lewis has infestations with things falling apart and decrepit sports fields, so let's take care of those two schools first?"

Why are we paying Gatehouse staff if they cannot figure out the obvious, to the point of having to hire expensive consultants for every single basic district function?

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I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

So, you think that McLean should pony up kids to help Justice? Do you hear yourself?

I've said it repeatedly: The Superintendent and School Board need to address and fix the problem The problem is not solved by pouring in more affluent kids. The problem is solved by addressing the needs of the current students and admitting what the problem is. I don't know anything about Glasgow, but if there is a serious problem there it should be addressed THERE. Spreading the problem around will not fix it.

I own property in the area. The issue with Glasgow is that it was rebuilt from scratch to accommodate almost 1700 kids, including AAP kids, but a lot of the student body is undisciplined and unruly. The community just wants to reduce the enrollment, even if it leaves the school technically under-enrolled, so the administration has fewer kids to supervise.

Both Holmes and Poe, which are nearby, have spare capacity and they are also 6-8 middle schools like Glasgow. The challenge is that Holmes and Poe are already split feeders (Holmes to Annandale and Edison and Poe to Annandale and Falls Church) and moving Glasgow kids there would turn them into three-way split feeders unless the Justice boundaries also change. In addition, the Glasgow neighborhoods closest to Holmes and Poe are mostly single-family areas, so they could end up reducing the number of kids at Glasgow but increasing the concentration of poverty. But I gather some would support that as long as the enrollment is smaller.

Reid wants to make this school the model for all FCPS middle schools.

Giant, unmanageable 6th through 8th grade monstrosities with around 2000 students each.

The 7th-8th middle schools are barely holding the discipline together, and the three 6th-7th-8th middle schools are out of control.

Yet Reid wants that model to go county wide.

It makes no sense fot the school board to expand all the middle schools to 2000 students.

APS has 6-8 middle schools and most of them have enrollments smaller than many FCPS 7-8 middle schools.

But they have the buildings they have, and we have the buildings we have. I don’t know how we possibly have 6-8 middle schools in FCPS without massive upheaval and in some cases monster-size schools.

If they move 6th grade to middle schools, most of the middle schools will go from around 1100-1400 students, to 1600-2100 students. Discipline issues will skyrocket with middle schools of that size enrollment.

APS is a tiny district compared to FCPS and has far fewer households with school aged children.

You cannot compare the 2 districts on this one, because their student composition is so different from FCPS.

However, we can compare the middle schools in FCPS. In general, the 6th-8th middle schools on average are far less successful than most of the 7th-8th middle schools, with far more discipline issues.

The only reason to add 6th to middle school is if Reid wants to pull the quality of all FCPS middle schools downward to the lowest common denominator.

So you agree that Glasgow is too big and needs to be fixed.

And the MS that are currently 6th-8th have, as you say, a very different composition than most of the rest of FCPS MS.

The lack of reasoning skills on display in this thread is astounding. I get that re-boundarying is an emotional issue, but it’s clear many of you cannot put together coherent arguments.

Is Jackson middle school of similar composition? I am sure there are 7-8th in FCPS that are similar in composition to Glasgow. I am not even sure if Poe or Holmes is similar in composition to Glasgow.

If you are looking at race, they are similar in demographics for all those schools. Holmes and Poe (3 grades) have about 900 kids and Glasgow 1800 kids. Jackson is two grades with 1000 kids.

The big difference is that Glasgow's population is 94% economically disadvantaged and Poe is 91%. Jackson is 59% and Holmes 67%.

The economically disadvantaged is the issue (besides learning a new language). My friend taught at Glasgow, and besides the MS13 gangs and violence they have to educate kids that have never had a single book in their home. Parents and PTOs put a lot into schools, time and money. You are talking about a school that completely lacks even that resource by its population makeup.

These statistics are off. I can assure you that nowhere near 94% of Glasgow’s kids are economically disadvantaged. They may roll up kids at feeder ES that are deemed 100% disadvantaged for convenience but there are a lot of kids from affluent families in Lake Barcroft and Sleepy Hollow at Glasgow and Justice.

Poe is not truly 91% disadvantaged, either.

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I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

So, you think that McLean should pony up kids to help Justice? Do you hear yourself?

I've said it repeatedly: The Superintendent and School Board need to address and fix the problem The problem is not solved by pouring in more affluent kids. The problem is solved by addressing the needs of the current students and admitting what the problem is. I don't know anything about Glasgow, but if there is a serious problem there it should be addressed THERE. Spreading the problem around will not fix it.

I own property in the area. The issue with Glasgow is that it was rebuilt from scratch to accommodate almost 1700 kids, including AAP kids, but a lot of the student body is undisciplined and unruly. The community just wants to reduce the enrollment, even if it leaves the school technically under-enrolled, so the administration has fewer kids to supervise.

Both Holmes and Poe, which are nearby, have spare capacity and they are also 6-8 middle schools like Glasgow. The challenge is that Holmes and Poe are already split feeders (Holmes to Annandale and Edison and Poe to Annandale and Falls Church) and moving Glasgow kids there would turn them into three-way split feeders unless the Justice boundaries also change. In addition, the Glasgow neighborhoods closest to Holmes and Poe are mostly single-family areas, so they could end up reducing the number of kids at Glasgow but increasing the concentration of poverty. But I gather some would support that as long as the enrollment is smaller.

Reid wants to make this school the model for all FCPS middle schools.

Giant, unmanageable 6th through 8th grade monstrosities with around 2000 students each.

The 7th-8th middle schools are barely holding the discipline together, and the three 6th-7th-8th middle schools are out of control.

Yet Reid wants that model to go county wide.

It makes no sense fot the school board to expand all the middle schools to 2000 students.

APS has 6-8 middle schools and most of them have enrollments smaller than many FCPS 7-8 middle schools.

But they have the buildings they have, and we have the buildings we have. I don’t know how we possibly have 6-8 middle schools in FCPS without massive upheaval and in some cases monster-size schools.

If they move 6th grade to middle schools, most of the middle schools will go from around 1100-1400 students, to 1600-2100 students. Discipline issues will skyrocket with middle schools of that size enrollment.

APS is a tiny district compared to FCPS and has far fewer households with school aged children.

You cannot compare the 2 districts on this one, because their student composition is so different from FCPS.

However, we can compare the middle schools in FCPS. In general, the 6th-8th middle schools on average are far less successful than most of the 7th-8th middle schools, with far more discipline issues.

The only reason to add 6th to middle school is if Reid wants to pull the quality of all FCPS middle schools downward to the lowest common denominator.

So you agree that Glasgow is too big and needs to be fixed.

And the MS that are currently 6th-8th have, as you say, a very different composition than most of the rest of FCPS MS.

The lack of reasoning skills on display in this thread is astounding. I get that re-boundarying is an emotional issue, but it’s clear many of you cannot put together coherent arguments.

I’m an earlier poster but not the poster to whom you’re responding. If they move the AAP kids from Holmes and Poe back to those schools, Glasgow’s enrollment would go down immediately. Holmes, in particular, sends a lot of kids to Glasgow.

If you do this to the AAP students from Holmes and Poe then you’d have to send all AAP kids back to their base MS. And it’s not clear that Holmes and Poe would have a big enough cohort to keep AAP functional for them, so then you’d have to discontinue AAP for all MS.

Obviously, the better solution would be to move AAP from Glasgow to Poe or Holmes.