FCPS comprehensive boundary review

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They just changed the boundaries for McLean HS in 2021 and for the elementary school feeders last year. If there's any area that deserves a pass from additional boundary changes, and instead needs a real plan to deal with the growth in and near Tysons, it's that pyramid. We're not falling for the line about how no one has looked at boundaries in 40 years, because that's not the case where our pyramid is concerned.

How do you plan to deal with growth in and near Tysons without considering boundary changes for McLean and Langley?

McLean has already had a boundary change in 2021. It's past time to start planning for a renovation and addition, given that it serves a growth area. Other schools that haven't had boundary changes can take their turn with boundary adjustments if they want.

Why build an addition when Langley and Fall Church High Schools have space to accommodate McLean’s overage? Seems like a waste of resources.

If there was any waste of resources, it was expanding Langley and Falls Church when the growth is in the Tysons/McLean area. Those schools may well see more kids over time, but McLean - which serves a growing area but has or will have the smallest number of permanent seats of any FCPS high school - fully deserves an addition.

Here's what the now-Chair of the School Board said in writing back in 2019:

"Though it may take years to complete, we should begin scoping for a permanent addition/expansion to McLean High School to further address capacity issues. That may require adjusting the Capital Improvement Program (CIP) renovation calendar and including additional funding for planning and construction in the next school bond referendum. There has been some chatter about a modular trailer being relocated to McLean High School using funds from the 2019 school bond referendum. This would be a welcome alternative to a traditional classroom trailer, but it is important that this capacity stopgap be tied directly to plans for a physical expansion of McLean High School – and that it not be used as a permanent solution."

​

The McLean islands can be moved. Boundaries can be changed to take from McLean and shift more towards Langley and Falls Church. Hence "comprehensive" boundary change.

Agree. If McLean is over capacity using trailers, then students should be shifted to nearby schools with capacity. If Tyson’s does generate more HS students, then more neighborhoods should be shifted so that we take advantage of existing capacity before considering expansions or new schools. Surely, DCUM won’t have qualms sending McLean kids to nearby Langley.

No objection, and Langley can take the attendance island without going overcapacity.

Longer term, McLean will need an expansion. Borderline criminal that it’s been neglected for so long, while they expand schools with declining populations.

Longer term? It’s needed an expansion for years, and certainly more so than Justice and Madison, each of which was recently expanded outside the queue.

Someone talked earlier about not threading a needle. That’s exactly what you’re doing here by suggesting FCPS is going to move more McLean kids to Langley without also moving part of Langley to Herndon. Some would argue they deliberately under-invest in McLean (which will have the smallest permanent capacity of any FCPS high school despite serving growing areas in Tysons, West Falls Church, and downtown McLean) precisely because they want to move Langley kids into Herndon and need more McLean kids at Langley to justify that.

I’m trying to thread zero needles. McLean should’ve had a renovation a long time ago. I thought I made that clear when I said it was borderline criminal that they haven’t gotten one yet.

I’ve always supported that. Since I don’t have a Time Machine and it takes a while to build an expansion, then the alternatives are keeping the current boundaries, which I support, or moving the attendance island to Langley.

I’m not interested in anyone moving. I think they’re being foolish, but I was just pointing out that Langley can absorb the entire western island and not be overcapacity.

You’re still threading a needle because you’re focusing entirely on whether Langley would be overcapacity with a second Langley/McLean boundary change in five years. They may blow right past that and reassign kids to Herndon because it now has even more extra capacity and is closer.

Keep in mind your community (through the GFCA) fought hard in 2021 to keep the very McLean kids you’re now saying won’t overcrowd Langley out of the school because you were worried they’d bump you into Herndon. Now it’s coming up again and it may be the final straw.

It’s a shame they haven’t invested in the areas experiencing the most growth and now want to move kids around like widgets. They are slowly destroying McLean HS through neglect and boundary changes, and some of Langley stands to feel some pain, too.

Really don’t know what to say here. I’m no expert in the definition of threading needles, but I’ve never heard it articulated as you do.

Just kinda weird to rabidly go after people who generally agree with you.

I’m not going after you. I’m helping you see the writing on the wall. I think you see it already as well, but can’t quite bring yourself to articulate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious- will it be changes for all schools? I’m guessing if part of HV moves to SC then they go to SC middle too? No split feeder middle schools anymore?

Or key/lewis.

I would have to assume that since they want to get rid of split feeders, that they would move kids out of HVES entirely and draw a boundary to get them into a South County or Lewis-feeding elementary. For SC they could pretty easily go to Newington Forest, not sure how to get kids to I guess Saratoga(?) without drawing a massive gerrymander. South County can accept more students and is under enrolled at the moment, but I’m not sure the status of the various elementary schools.

Not sure that all split feeders will be eliminated. I don't think that is possible.

I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

McLean and Justice are not contiguous. The closest part of McLean, next to Fall Church is where a significant portion of McLean’s poor students live. You would not be changing any dynamics.

+1. PP is just trying to intimidate McLean families by suggesting FCPS would replace one attendance island with another by zoning them to Justice (you have to cross through the Falls Church HS and FCC boundaries to get there). And, as you say, the part of McLean closest to Justice has similar demographics in any event.

The sad thing is that this person could well be on the boundary review advisory committee as they’ve stacked it with people who deeply resent Langley and McLean.

McLean’s Principal is on the committee.

She’s spoken about the need for an addition for many years and been totally ignored by Gatehouse.

Just as the Advisory committee will be ignored by Gatehouse, is past is prologue. People are getting unnecessarily riled up over the committee make up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious- will it be changes for all schools? I’m guessing if part of HV moves to SC then they go to SC middle too? No split feeder middle schools anymore?

Or key/lewis.

I would have to assume that since they want to get rid of split feeders, that they would move kids out of HVES entirely and draw a boundary to get them into a South County or Lewis-feeding elementary. For SC they could pretty easily go to Newington Forest, not sure how to get kids to I guess Saratoga(?) without drawing a massive gerrymander. South County can accept more students and is under enrolled at the moment, but I’m not sure the status of the various elementary schools.

Not sure that all split feeders will be eliminated. I don't think that is possible.

I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

McLean and Justice are not contiguous. The closest part of McLean, next to Fall Church is where a significant portion of McLean’s poor students live. You would not be changing any dynamics.

+1. PP is just trying to intimidate McLean families by suggesting FCPS would replace one attendance island with another by zoning them to Justice (you have to cross through the Falls Church HS and FCC boundaries to get there). And, as you say, the part of McLean closest to Justice has similar demographics in any event.

The sad thing is that this person could well be on the boundary review advisory committee as they’ve stacked it with people who deeply resent Langley and McLean.

McLean’s Principal is on the committee.

She’s spoken about the need for an addition for many years and been totally ignored by Gatehouse.

Just as the Advisory committee will be ignored by Gatehouse, is past is prologue. People are getting unnecessarily riled up over the committee make up.

I get your point, but just want to point out that the handouts at all of the meetings indicated that the committee will be drawing up recommendations for the superintendent. So there is an official role for the committee, which is one of the reasons that the number of hand picked special interest members is so alarming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am curious- will it be changes for all schools? I’m guessing if part of HV moves to SC then they go to SC middle too? No split feeder middle schools anymore?

Or key/lewis.

I would have to assume that since they want to get rid of split feeders, that they would move kids out of HVES entirely and draw a boundary to get them into a South County or Lewis-feeding elementary. For SC they could pretty easily go to Newington Forest, not sure how to get kids to I guess Saratoga(?) without drawing a massive gerrymander. South County can accept more students and is under enrolled at the moment, but I’m not sure the status of the various elementary schools.

Not sure that all split feeders will be eliminated. I don't think that is possible.

I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

McLean and Justice are not contiguous. The closest part of McLean, next to Fall Church is where a significant portion of McLean’s poor students live. You would not be changing any dynamics.

+1. PP is just trying to intimidate McLean families by suggesting FCPS would replace one attendance island with another by zoning them to Justice (you have to cross through the Falls Church HS and FCC boundaries to get there). And, as you say, the part of McLean closest to Justice has similar demographics in any event.

The sad thing is that this person could well be on the boundary review advisory committee as they’ve stacked it with people who deeply resent Langley and McLean.

McLean’s Principal is on the committee.

She’s spoken about the need for an addition for many years and been totally ignored by Gatehouse.

Just as the Advisory committee will be ignored by Gatehouse, is past is prologue. People are getting unnecessarily riled up over the committee make up.

I get your point, but just want to point out that the handouts at all of the meetings indicated that the committee will be drawing up recommendations for the superintendent. So there is an official role for the committee, which is one of the reasons that the number of hand picked special interest members is so alarming.

Over the years, I have participated in several Advisory Committees with previous Superintendents and they all send recommendations to the Superintendents as well as the School Board. Rarely, did anything change. I expect this one to be similar. When someone asks if I would recommend serving one one, I generally say no, it is a waste of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They just changed the boundaries for McLean HS in 2021 and for the elementary school feeders last year. If there's any area that deserves a pass from additional boundary changes, and instead needs a real plan to deal with the growth in and near Tysons, it's that pyramid. We're not falling for the line about how no one has looked at boundaries in 40 years, because that's not the case where our pyramid is concerned.

How do you plan to deal with growth in and near Tysons without considering boundary changes for McLean and Langley?

McLean has already had a boundary change in 2021. It's past time to start planning for a renovation and addition, given that it serves a growth area. Other schools that haven't had boundary changes can take their turn with boundary adjustments if they want.

Why build an addition when Langley and Fall Church High Schools have space to accommodate McLean’s overage? Seems like a waste of resources.

If there was any waste of resources, it was expanding Langley and Falls Church when the growth is in the Tysons/McLean area. Those schools may well see more kids over time, but McLean - which serves a growing area but has or will have the smallest number of permanent seats of any FCPS high school - fully deserves an addition.

Here's what the now-Chair of the School Board said in writing back in 2019:

"Though it may take years to complete, we should begin scoping for a permanent addition/expansion to McLean High School to further address capacity issues. That may require adjusting the Capital Improvement Program (CIP) renovation calendar and including additional funding for planning and construction in the next school bond referendum. There has been some chatter about a modular trailer being relocated to McLean High School using funds from the 2019 school bond referendum. This would be a welcome alternative to a traditional classroom trailer, but it is important that this capacity stopgap be tied directly to plans for a physical expansion of McLean High School – and that it not be used as a permanent solution."

​

The McLean islands can be moved. Boundaries can be changed to take from McLean and shift more towards Langley and Falls Church. Hence "comprehensive" boundary change.

Agree. If McLean is over capacity using trailers, then students should be shifted to nearby schools with capacity. If Tyson’s does generate more HS students, then more neighborhoods should be shifted so that we take advantage of existing capacity before considering expansions or new schools. Surely, DCUM won’t have qualms sending McLean kids to nearby Langley.

No objection, and Langley can take the attendance island without going overcapacity.

Longer term, McLean will need an expansion. Borderline criminal that it’s been neglected for so long, while they expand schools with declining populations.

Longer term? It’s needed an expansion for years, and certainly more so than Justice and Madison, each of which was recently expanded outside the queue.

Someone talked earlier about not threading a needle. That’s exactly what you’re doing here by suggesting FCPS is going to move more McLean kids to Langley without also moving part of Langley to Herndon. Some would argue they deliberately under-invest in McLean (which will have the smallest permanent capacity of any FCPS high school despite serving growing areas in Tysons, West Falls Church, and downtown McLean) precisely because they want to move Langley kids into Herndon and need more McLean kids at Langley to justify that.

I’m trying to thread zero needles. McLean should’ve had a renovation a long time ago. I thought I made that clear when I said it was borderline criminal that they haven’t gotten one yet.

I’ve always supported that. Since I don’t have a Time Machine and it takes a while to build an expansion, then the alternatives are keeping the current boundaries, which I support, or moving the attendance island to Langley.

I’m not interested in anyone moving. I think they’re being foolish, but I was just pointing out that Langley can absorb the entire western island and not be overcapacity.

McLean did have a renovation in the 2000’s. That may qualify for “a long time ago”.

You should ask FCPS for the budgets for the school renovations starting in the early 2000s. You’d see the budgets for the schools “renovated” in the early 2000s (Annandale, Justice, Lewis, McLean, Madison) were a small fraction of the later renovations. That’s not due primarily to inflation or cost increases, but instead to the fact that the “renovations” were much more limited in scale. So the schools built later actually ended up getting nicer renovations - and then FCPS selectively deviated from the later “renovation queue” to do things like expand West Potomac to 3000 permanent seats while leaving McLean with under 2000.

They won’t make amends for this, of course. They’ll just kick more kids out of McLean and call it a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

So, you think that McLean should pony up kids to help Justice? Do you hear yourself?

I've said it repeatedly: The Superintendent and School Board need to address and fix the problem The problem is not solved by pouring in more affluent kids. The problem is solved by addressing the needs of the current students and admitting what the problem is. I don't know anything about Glasgow, but if there is a serious problem there it should be addressed THERE. Spreading the problem around will not fix it.

I own property in the area. The issue with Glasgow is that it was rebuilt from scratch to accommodate almost 1700 kids, including AAP kids, but a lot of the student body is undisciplined and unruly. The community just wants to reduce the enrollment, even if it leaves the school technically under-enrolled, so the administration has fewer kids to supervise.

Both Holmes and Poe, which are nearby, have spare capacity and they are also 6-8 middle schools like Glasgow. The challenge is that Holmes and Poe are already split feeders (Holmes to Annandale and Edison and Poe to Annandale and Falls Church) and moving Glasgow kids there would turn them into three-way split feeders unless the Justice boundaries also change. In addition, the Glasgow neighborhoods closest to Holmes and Poe are mostly single-family areas, so they could end up reducing the number of kids at Glasgow but increasing the concentration of poverty. But I gather some would support that as long as the enrollment is smaller.

Reid wants to make this school the model for all FCPS middle schools.

Giant, unmanageable 6th through 8th grade monstrosities with around 2000 students each.

The 7th-8th middle schools are barely holding the discipline together, and the three 6th-7th-8th middle schools are out of control.

Yet Reid wants that model to go county wide.

It makes no sense fot the school board to expand all the middle schools to 2000 students.

APS has 6-8 middle schools and most of them have enrollments smaller than many FCPS 7-8 middle schools.

But they have the buildings they have, and we have the buildings we have. I don’t know how we possibly have 6-8 middle schools in FCPS without massive upheaval and in some cases monster-size schools.

[Anonymous]

But they have the buildings they have, and we have the buildings we have. I don’t know how we possibly have 6-8 middle schools in FCPS without massive upheaval and in some cases monster-size schools.

And, don't forget about the staffing, too. Moving 6th grade to middle school will not be desired by many.

[Anonymous]

Little did we know that when Reid kept repeating “imagine the possibilities” that none of the possibilities she wants us to imagine will improve our kids’ education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Little did we know that when Reid kept repeating “imagine the possibilities” that none of the possibilities she wants us to imagine will improve our kids’ education.

+1. Time to throw these school board bums out. They don’t listen to constituents.

[Anonymous]

LBSS middle school enrollment is around 1500 and that's only 7th and 8th. It's actually denser per grade than Glasgow because Glasgow has 1700 split among three grades, and yet LBSS is specifically sought after because of its size. Big school, big selection of classes, big opportunity. So the plan to make middle schools larger in and of itself is not bad when there is clear evidence that large schools are generally preferred by parents.
Obviously, the difference is that Glasgow concentrates a large percentage of ELL kids, making it harder for them to assimilate and adapt.

[Anonymous]

I didn’t realize the Loudoun schools have significantly lower enrollment. That system seems significantly better in many ways than the FCPS clown show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LBSS middle school enrollment is around 1500 and that's only 7th and 8th. It's actually denser per grade than Glasgow because Glasgow has 1700 split among three grades, and yet LBSS is specifically sought after because of its size. Big school, big selection of classes, big opportunity. So the plan to make middle schools larger in and of itself is not bad when there is clear evidence that large schools are generally preferred by parents.
Obviously, the difference is that Glasgow concentrates a large percentage of ELL kids, making it harder for them to assimilate and adapt.

I’m not sure there is clear evidence that parents prefer larger schools. There is clear evidence parents prefer stability and not to be redistricted, and larger schools reduce that risk.

Middle school kids in general aren’t the best behaved so adding more kids to existing buildings doesn’t sound like a great idea. LBSS may function well but some prefer Irving because they don’t want their kids at a school as big as LBSS in middle school.

[Anonymous]

From the follow up email to people who attended the in person meeting at Madison:

What We Heard from You

During the meeting, you emphasized several key priorities, including:

Minimizing Student Disruption: Minimizing disruption for currently-enrolled students.

Identifying Alternative Solutions: Identifying solutions to improve distribution of resources and educational programs as an alternative to simply adjusting boundaries.

Transportation and Proximity: Minimizing travel times and promoting walkable communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From the follow up email to people who attended the in person meeting at Madison:

What We Heard from You

During the meeting, you emphasized several key priorities, including:

Minimizing Student Disruption: Minimizing disruption for currently-enrolled students.

Identifying Alternative Solutions: Identifying solutions to improve distribution of resources and educational programs as an alternative to simply adjusting boundaries.

Transportation and Proximity: Minimizing travel times and promoting walkable communities.

What else we heard from almost all of you but are ignoring: nobody wants these boundary changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Instead of putting in new boundaries, spend the money on extra staff at the struggling schools.

TEACH THE KIDS. IF THEY ARE DISCIPLINE PROBLEMS, TAKE ACTION. ADDRESS THE PROBLEM INSTEAD OF COVERING IT UP AND SPREADING IT AROUND.

There are lots of educational studies that by having a mix of high, mid, and low performers tends to raise the overall performance of the school. Some of these schools are unbalanced.