FCPS comprehensive boundary review

[Anonymous]

AAP is going away at the middle school level. Transportation savings alone. Local will be at all schools soon for the elementary kids. When that occurs, it will be local only.

[Anonymous]

If you do this to the AAP students from Holmes and Poe then you’d have to send all AAP kids back to their base MS. And it’s not clear that Holmes and Poe would have a big enough cohort to keep AAP functional for them, so then you’d have to discontinue AAP for all MS.

You don't need AAP in Middle School. Glo back to real Honors classes. That worked for years before they went from GT to AAP. And, FWIW, some of those kids were more successful than their GT friends in high school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They just changed the boundaries for McLean HS in 2021 and for the elementary school feeders last year. If there's any area that deserves a pass from additional boundary changes, and instead needs a real plan to deal with the growth in and near Tysons, it's that pyramid. We're not falling for the line about how no one has looked at boundaries in 40 years, because that's not the case where our pyramid is concerned.

How do you plan to deal with growth in and near Tysons without considering boundary changes for McLean and Langley?

McLean has already had a boundary change in 2021. It's past time to start planning for a renovation and addition, given that it serves a growth area. Other schools that haven't had boundary changes can take their turn with boundary adjustments if they want.

Why build an addition when Langley and Fall Church High Schools have space to accommodate McLean’s overage? Seems like a waste of resources.

If there was any waste of resources, it was expanding Langley and Falls Church when the growth is in the Tysons/McLean area. Those schools may well see more kids over time, but McLean - which serves a growing area but has or will have the smallest number of permanent seats of any FCPS high school - fully deserves an addition.

Here's what the now-Chair of the School Board said in writing back in 2019:

"Though it may take years to complete, we should begin scoping for a permanent addition/expansion to McLean High School to further address capacity issues. That may require adjusting the Capital Improvement Program (CIP) renovation calendar and including additional funding for planning and construction in the next school bond referendum. There has been some chatter about a modular trailer being relocated to McLean High School using funds from the 2019 school bond referendum. This would be a welcome alternative to a traditional classroom trailer, but it is important that this capacity stopgap be tied directly to plans for a physical expansion of McLean High School – and that it not be used as a permanent solution."

​

The McLean islands can be moved. Boundaries can be changed to take from McLean and shift more towards Langley and Falls Church. Hence "comprehensive" boundary change.

Agree. If McLean is over capacity using trailers, then students should be shifted to nearby schools with capacity. If Tyson’s does generate more HS students, then more neighborhoods should be shifted so that we take advantage of existing capacity before considering expansions or new schools. Surely, DCUM won’t have qualms sending McLean kids to nearby Langley.

No objection, and Langley can take the attendance island without going overcapacity.

Longer term, McLean will need an expansion. Borderline criminal that it’s been neglected for so long, while they expand schools with declining populations.

Longer term? It’s needed an expansion for years, and certainly more so than Justice and Madison, each of which was recently expanded outside the queue.

Someone talked earlier about not threading a needle. That’s exactly what you’re doing here by suggesting FCPS is going to move more McLean kids to Langley without also moving part of Langley to Herndon. Some would argue they deliberately under-invest in McLean (which will have the smallest permanent capacity of any FCPS high school despite serving growing areas in Tysons, West Falls Church, and downtown McLean) precisely because they want to move Langley kids into Herndon and need more McLean kids at Langley to justify that.

I’m trying to thread zero needles. McLean should’ve had a renovation a long time ago. I thought I made that clear when I said it was borderline criminal that they haven’t gotten one yet.

I’ve always supported that. Since I don’t have a Time Machine and it takes a while to build an expansion, then the alternatives are keeping the current boundaries, which I support, or moving the attendance island to Langley.

I’m not interested in anyone moving. I think they’re being foolish, but I was just pointing out that Langley can absorb the entire western island and not be overcapacity.

McLean did have a renovation in the 2000’s. That may qualify for “a long time ago”.

I think under the previous consultant’s metric, McLean wouldn’t get another renovation until roughly 2045 at the earliest. But didn’t FCPS just hire a brand new consultant to come up with an updated renovation/replacement queue?

My guess is that for the high schools, McLean, Annandale, etc will be near the front of the this new queue. So a renovation or rebuild within the next ten years. And maybe the Wilston School could become another middle school to relieve Glasgow. That building is preserved in its original state and well maintained, so an upgrade there shouldn’t be too expensive.

I do hope the boundary consultant and committee and the new facilities consultant are coordinating.

Why does FCPS keep $500,000 consultants for this stuff?

Isn't there anyone at Gatehouse that can drive to each of the schools, look at them and say "Yep, McLean is exploding at the seams and Lewis has infestations with things falling apart and decrepit sports fields, so let's take care of those two schools first?"

Why are we paying Gatehouse staff if they cannot figure out the obvious, to the point of having to hire expensive consultants for every single basic district function?

Agreed!! Or the consultant who was paid to give us five unusable school start time matrixes to try to fix middle school starts times and provide affordable transportation (and enough drivers) at the same time. NO KIDDING!!

Next they'll hire a consultant to tell us that we can't fit 6th graders in our already overcrowded middle schools. SHOCKING!

Or that providing all local level IV instead of centers will mean the current center schools will end up way under enrolled and the home schools will be way over-enrolled and all the teachers will be in the wrong schools too. UNBELIEVABLE!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They just changed the boundaries for McLean HS in 2021 and for the elementary school feeders last year. If there's any area that deserves a pass from additional boundary changes, and instead needs a real plan to deal with the growth in and near Tysons, it's that pyramid. We're not falling for the line about how no one has looked at boundaries in 40 years, because that's not the case where our pyramid is concerned.

How do you plan to deal with growth in and near Tysons without considering boundary changes for McLean and Langley?

McLean has already had a boundary change in 2021. It's past time to start planning for a renovation and addition, given that it serves a growth area. Other schools that haven't had boundary changes can take their turn with boundary adjustments if they want.

Why build an addition when Langley and Fall Church High Schools have space to accommodate McLean’s overage? Seems like a waste of resources.

If there was any waste of resources, it was expanding Langley and Falls Church when the growth is in the Tysons/McLean area. Those schools may well see more kids over time, but McLean - which serves a growing area but has or will have the smallest number of permanent seats of any FCPS high school - fully deserves an addition.

Here's what the now-Chair of the School Board said in writing back in 2019:

"Though it may take years to complete, we should begin scoping for a permanent addition/expansion to McLean High School to further address capacity issues. That may require adjusting the Capital Improvement Program (CIP) renovation calendar and including additional funding for planning and construction in the next school bond referendum. There has been some chatter about a modular trailer being relocated to McLean High School using funds from the 2019 school bond referendum. This would be a welcome alternative to a traditional classroom trailer, but it is important that this capacity stopgap be tied directly to plans for a physical expansion of McLean High School – and that it not be used as a permanent solution."

​

The McLean islands can be moved. Boundaries can be changed to take from McLean and shift more towards Langley and Falls Church. Hence "comprehensive" boundary change.

Agree. If McLean is over capacity using trailers, then students should be shifted to nearby schools with capacity. If Tyson’s does generate more HS students, then more neighborhoods should be shifted so that we take advantage of existing capacity before considering expansions or new schools. Surely, DCUM won’t have qualms sending McLean kids to nearby Langley.

No objection, and Langley can take the attendance island without going overcapacity.

Longer term, McLean will need an expansion. Borderline criminal that it’s been neglected for so long, while they expand schools with declining populations.

Longer term? It’s needed an expansion for years, and certainly more so than Justice and Madison, each of which was recently expanded outside the queue.

Someone talked earlier about not threading a needle. That’s exactly what you’re doing here by suggesting FCPS is going to move more McLean kids to Langley without also moving part of Langley to Herndon. Some would argue they deliberately under-invest in McLean (which will have the smallest permanent capacity of any FCPS high school despite serving growing areas in Tysons, West Falls Church, and downtown McLean) precisely because they want to move Langley kids into Herndon and need more McLean kids at Langley to justify that.

I’m trying to thread zero needles. McLean should’ve had a renovation a long time ago. I thought I made that clear when I said it was borderline criminal that they haven’t gotten one yet.

I’ve always supported that. Since I don’t have a Time Machine and it takes a while to build an expansion, then the alternatives are keeping the current boundaries, which I support, or moving the attendance island to Langley.

I’m not interested in anyone moving. I think they’re being foolish, but I was just pointing out that Langley can absorb the entire western island and not be overcapacity.

McLean did have a renovation in the 2000’s. That may qualify for “a long time ago”.

I think under the previous consultant’s metric, McLean wouldn’t get another renovation until roughly 2045 at the earliest. But didn’t FCPS just hire a brand new consultant to come up with an updated renovation/replacement queue?

My guess is that for the high schools, McLean, Annandale, etc will be near the front of the this new queue. So a renovation or rebuild within the next ten years. And maybe the Wilston School could become another middle school to relieve Glasgow. That building is preserved in its original state and well maintained, so an upgrade there shouldn’t be too expensive.

I do hope the boundary consultant and committee and the new facilities consultant are coordinating.

Why does FCPS keep $500,000 consultants for this stuff?

Isn't there anyone at Gatehouse that can drive to each of the schools, look at them and say "Yep, McLean is exploding at the seams and Lewis has infestations with things falling apart and decrepit sports fields, so let's take care of those two schools first?"

Why are we paying Gatehouse staff if they cannot figure out the obvious, to the point of having to hire expensive consultants for every single basic district function?

Agreed!! Or the consultant who was paid to give us five unusable school start time matrixes to try to fix middle school starts times and provide affordable transportation (and enough drivers) at the same time. NO KIDDING!!

Next they'll hire a consultant to tell us that we can't fit 6th graders in our already overcrowded middle schools. SHOCKING!

Or that providing all local level IV instead of centers will mean the current center schools will end up way under enrolled and the home schools will be way over-enrolled and all the teachers will be in the wrong schools too. UNBELIEVABLE!

It is happening. You can't have everything. If they decide no boundary changes except, but AAP changes, parents will still complain. But I bet all the parents with high school kids would be thrilled. Everyone has their own fight.

We have a transportation issue more than a boundary issue. Get rid of AAP in middle, starting 2026.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone ever check into the interchanges between the contractors and the contracting officers? Or the School Board?

Most people would be amazed at the lobbying that goes on --in any government entity.

1. Who thought hiring a consultant to do a boundary study was a really good idea?
2. Who selected this particular consultant? Was there a prior relationship with any of the employees of this consultant?

[Anonymous]

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I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

So, you think that McLean should pony up kids to help Justice? Do you hear yourself?

I've said it repeatedly: The Superintendent and School Board need to address and fix the problem The problem is not solved by pouring in more affluent kids. The problem is solved by addressing the needs of the current students and admitting what the problem is. I don't know anything about Glasgow, but if there is a serious problem there it should be addressed THERE. Spreading the problem around will not fix it.

I own property in the area. The issue with Glasgow is that it was rebuilt from scratch to accommodate almost 1700 kids, including AAP kids, but a lot of the student body is undisciplined and unruly. The community just wants to reduce the enrollment, even if it leaves the school technically under-enrolled, so the administration has fewer kids to supervise.

Both Holmes and Poe, which are nearby, have spare capacity and they are also 6-8 middle schools like Glasgow. The challenge is that Holmes and Poe are already split feeders (Holmes to Annandale and Edison and Poe to Annandale and Falls Church) and moving Glasgow kids there would turn them into three-way split feeders unless the Justice boundaries also change. In addition, the Glasgow neighborhoods closest to Holmes and Poe are mostly single-family areas, so they could end up reducing the number of kids at Glasgow but increasing the concentration of poverty. But I gather some would support that as long as the enrollment is smaller.

Reid wants to make this school the model for all FCPS middle schools.

Giant, unmanageable 6th through 8th grade monstrosities with around 2000 students each.

The 7th-8th middle schools are barely holding the discipline together, and the three 6th-7th-8th middle schools are out of control.

Yet Reid wants that model to go county wide.

It makes no sense fot the school board to expand all the middle schools to 2000 students.

APS has 6-8 middle schools and most of them have enrollments smaller than many FCPS 7-8 middle schools.

But they have the buildings they have, and we have the buildings we have. I don’t know how we possibly have 6-8 middle schools in FCPS without massive upheaval and in some cases monster-size schools.

If they move 6th grade to middle schools, most of the middle schools will go from around 1100-1400 students, to 1600-2100 students. Discipline issues will skyrocket with middle schools of that size enrollment.

APS is a tiny district compared to FCPS and has far fewer households with school aged children.

You cannot compare the 2 districts on this one, because their student composition is so different from FCPS.

However, we can compare the middle schools in FCPS. In general, the 6th-8th middle schools on average are far less successful than most of the 7th-8th middle schools, with far more discipline issues.

The only reason to add 6th to middle school is if Reid wants to pull the quality of all FCPS middle schools downward to the lowest common denominator.

So you agree that Glasgow is too big and needs to be fixed.

And the MS that are currently 6th-8th have, as you say, a very different composition than most of the rest of FCPS MS.

The lack of reasoning skills on display in this thread is astounding. I get that re-boundarying is an emotional issue, but it’s clear many of you cannot put together coherent arguments.

Is Jackson middle school of similar composition? I am sure there are 7-8th in FCPS that are similar in composition to Glasgow. I am not even sure if Poe or Holmes is similar in composition to Glasgow.

If you are looking at race, they are similar in demographics for all those schools. Holmes and Poe (3 grades) have about 900 kids and Glasgow 1800 kids. Jackson is two grades with 1000 kids.

The big difference is that Glasgow's population is 94% economically disadvantaged and Poe is 91%. Jackson is 59% and Holmes 67%.

The economically disadvantaged is the issue (besides learning a new language). My friend taught at Glasgow, and besides the MS13 gangs and violence they have to educate kids that have never had a single book in their home. Parents and PTOs put a lot into schools, time and money. You are talking about a school that completely lacks even that resource by its population makeup.

These statistics are off. I can assure you that nowhere near 94% of Glasgow’s kids are economically disadvantaged. They may roll up kids at feeder ES that are deemed 100% disadvantaged for convenience but there are a lot of kids from affluent families in Lake Barcroft and Sleepy Hollow at Glasgow and Justice.

Poe is not truly 91% disadvantaged, either.

This is what the State is saying on their site.
https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/

[Anonymous]

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I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

So, you think that McLean should pony up kids to help Justice? Do you hear yourself?

I've said it repeatedly: The Superintendent and School Board need to address and fix the problem The problem is not solved by pouring in more affluent kids. The problem is solved by addressing the needs of the current students and admitting what the problem is. I don't know anything about Glasgow, but if there is a serious problem there it should be addressed THERE. Spreading the problem around will not fix it.

I own property in the area. The issue with Glasgow is that it was rebuilt from scratch to accommodate almost 1700 kids, including AAP kids, but a lot of the student body is undisciplined and unruly. The community just wants to reduce the enrollment, even if it leaves the school technically under-enrolled, so the administration has fewer kids to supervise.

Both Holmes and Poe, which are nearby, have spare capacity and they are also 6-8 middle schools like Glasgow. The challenge is that Holmes and Poe are already split feeders (Holmes to Annandale and Edison and Poe to Annandale and Falls Church) and moving Glasgow kids there would turn them into three-way split feeders unless the Justice boundaries also change. In addition, the Glasgow neighborhoods closest to Holmes and Poe are mostly single-family areas, so they could end up reducing the number of kids at Glasgow but increasing the concentration of poverty. But I gather some would support that as long as the enrollment is smaller.

Reid wants to make this school the model for all FCPS middle schools.

Giant, unmanageable 6th through 8th grade monstrosities with around 2000 students each.

The 7th-8th middle schools are barely holding the discipline together, and the three 6th-7th-8th middle schools are out of control.

Yet Reid wants that model to go county wide.

It makes no sense fot the school board to expand all the middle schools to 2000 students.

APS has 6-8 middle schools and most of them have enrollments smaller than many FCPS 7-8 middle schools.

But they have the buildings they have, and we have the buildings we have. I don’t know how we possibly have 6-8 middle schools in FCPS without massive upheaval and in some cases monster-size schools.

If they move 6th grade to middle schools, most of the middle schools will go from around 1100-1400 students, to 1600-2100 students. Discipline issues will skyrocket with middle schools of that size enrollment.

APS is a tiny district compared to FCPS and has far fewer households with school aged children.

You cannot compare the 2 districts on this one, because their student composition is so different from FCPS.

However, we can compare the middle schools in FCPS. In general, the 6th-8th middle schools on average are far less successful than most of the 7th-8th middle schools, with far more discipline issues.

The only reason to add 6th to middle school is if Reid wants to pull the quality of all FCPS middle schools downward to the lowest common denominator.

So you agree that Glasgow is too big and needs to be fixed.

And the MS that are currently 6th-8th have, as you say, a very different composition than most of the rest of FCPS MS.

The lack of reasoning skills on display in this thread is astounding. I get that re-boundarying is an emotional issue, but it’s clear many of you cannot put together coherent arguments.

Is Jackson middle school of similar composition? I am sure there are 7-8th in FCPS that are similar in composition to Glasgow. I am not even sure if Poe or Holmes is similar in composition to Glasgow.

If you are looking at race, they are similar in demographics for all those schools. Holmes and Poe (3 grades) have about 900 kids and Glasgow 1800 kids. Jackson is two grades with 1000 kids.

The big difference is that Glasgow's population is 94% economically disadvantaged and Poe is 91%. Jackson is 59% and Holmes 67%.

The economically disadvantaged is the issue (besides learning a new language). My friend taught at Glasgow, and besides the MS13 gangs and violence they have to educate kids that have never had a single book in their home. Parents and PTOs put a lot into schools, time and money. You are talking about a school that completely lacks even that resource by its population makeup.

These statistics are off. I can assure you that nowhere near 94% of Glasgow’s kids are economically disadvantaged. They may roll up kids at feeder ES that are deemed 100% disadvantaged for convenience but there are a lot of kids from affluent families in Lake Barcroft and Sleepy Hollow at Glasgow and Justice.

Poe is not truly 91% disadvantaged, either.

This is what the State is saying on their site.
https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/

That says Poe is 77% farms not 91

[Anonymous]

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I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

So, you think that McLean should pony up kids to help Justice? Do you hear yourself?

I've said it repeatedly: The Superintendent and School Board need to address and fix the problem The problem is not solved by pouring in more affluent kids. The problem is solved by addressing the needs of the current students and admitting what the problem is. I don't know anything about Glasgow, but if there is a serious problem there it should be addressed THERE. Spreading the problem around will not fix it.

I own property in the area. The issue with Glasgow is that it was rebuilt from scratch to accommodate almost 1700 kids, including AAP kids, but a lot of the student body is undisciplined and unruly. The community just wants to reduce the enrollment, even if it leaves the school technically under-enrolled, so the administration has fewer kids to supervise.

Both Holmes and Poe, which are nearby, have spare capacity and they are also 6-8 middle schools like Glasgow. The challenge is that Holmes and Poe are already split feeders (Holmes to Annandale and Edison and Poe to Annandale and Falls Church) and moving Glasgow kids there would turn them into three-way split feeders unless the Justice boundaries also change. In addition, the Glasgow neighborhoods closest to Holmes and Poe are mostly single-family areas, so they could end up reducing the number of kids at Glasgow but increasing the concentration of poverty. But I gather some would support that as long as the enrollment is smaller.

Reid wants to make this school the model for all FCPS middle schools.

Giant, unmanageable 6th through 8th grade monstrosities with around 2000 students each.

The 7th-8th middle schools are barely holding the discipline together, and the three 6th-7th-8th middle schools are out of control.

Yet Reid wants that model to go county wide.

It makes no sense fot the school board to expand all the middle schools to 2000 students.

APS has 6-8 middle schools and most of them have enrollments smaller than many FCPS 7-8 middle schools.

But they have the buildings they have, and we have the buildings we have. I don’t know how we possibly have 6-8 middle schools in FCPS without massive upheaval and in some cases monster-size schools.

If they move 6th grade to middle schools, most of the middle schools will go from around 1100-1400 students, to 1600-2100 students. Discipline issues will skyrocket with middle schools of that size enrollment.

APS is a tiny district compared to FCPS and has far fewer households with school aged children.

You cannot compare the 2 districts on this one, because their student composition is so different from FCPS.

However, we can compare the middle schools in FCPS. In general, the 6th-8th middle schools on average are far less successful than most of the 7th-8th middle schools, with far more discipline issues.

The only reason to add 6th to middle school is if Reid wants to pull the quality of all FCPS middle schools downward to the lowest common denominator.

So you agree that Glasgow is too big and needs to be fixed.

And the MS that are currently 6th-8th have, as you say, a very different composition than most of the rest of FCPS MS.

The lack of reasoning skills on display in this thread is astounding. I get that re-boundarying is an emotional issue, but it’s clear many of you cannot put together coherent arguments.

I’m an earlier poster but not the poster to whom you’re responding. If they move the AAP kids from Holmes and Poe back to those schools, Glasgow’s enrollment would go down immediately. Holmes, in particular, sends a lot of kids to Glasgow.

If you do this to the AAP students from Holmes and Poe then you’d have to send all AAP kids back to their base MS. And it’s not clear that Holmes and Poe would have a big enough cohort to keep AAP functional for them, so then you’d have to discontinue AAP for all MS.

Obviously, the better solution would be to move AAP from Glasgow to Poe or Holmes.

Irving did L4 AAP with around 50 students the first year.

Since Math is mixed with the general school population, it can definitely be done at every middle school. You are only talking about English, science and history.

Even a pyramid with low levels of AAP can support the classes at the middle school level. They just need enough kids to fill 1-2 classes in each of the 3 subjects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone ever check into the interchanges between the contractors and the contracting officers? Or the School Board?

Most people would be amazed at the lobbying that goes on --in any government entity.

1. Who thought hiring a consultant to do a boundary study was a really good idea?
2. Who selected this particular consultant? Was there a prior relationship with any of the employees of this consultant?

This is the 2nd $500,000 no bid boundary consultant in 5 years.

The school board hired and paid for a consultant to look at rezoning right before the pandemic.

They only got through the first community meetings and feedback before the pandemic hit.

They determined that rezoning was not wanted by the citizens, and should be a very last resort, only to fix severe over crowding that cannot be fixed with trailers or expansions.

We really did not need to hire another boundary consultant when we just paid for one in 2019.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

So, you think that McLean should pony up kids to help Justice? Do you hear yourself?

I've said it repeatedly: The Superintendent and School Board need to address and fix the problem The problem is not solved by pouring in more affluent kids. The problem is solved by addressing the needs of the current students and admitting what the problem is. I don't know anything about Glasgow, but if there is a serious problem there it should be addressed THERE. Spreading the problem around will not fix it.

I own property in the area. The issue with Glasgow is that it was rebuilt from scratch to accommodate almost 1700 kids, including AAP kids, but a lot of the student body is undisciplined and unruly. The community just wants to reduce the enrollment, even if it leaves the school technically under-enrolled, so the administration has fewer kids to supervise.

Both Holmes and Poe, which are nearby, have spare capacity and they are also 6-8 middle schools like Glasgow. The challenge is that Holmes and Poe are already split feeders (Holmes to Annandale and Edison and Poe to Annandale and Falls Church) and moving Glasgow kids there would turn them into three-way split feeders unless the Justice boundaries also change. In addition, the Glasgow neighborhoods closest to Holmes and Poe are mostly single-family areas, so they could end up reducing the number of kids at Glasgow but increasing the concentration of poverty. But I gather some would support that as long as the enrollment is smaller.

Reid wants to make this school the model for all FCPS middle schools.

Giant, unmanageable 6th through 8th grade monstrosities with around 2000 students each.

The 7th-8th middle schools are barely holding the discipline together, and the three 6th-7th-8th middle schools are out of control.

Yet Reid wants that model to go county wide.

It makes no sense fot the school board to expand all the middle schools to 2000 students.

APS has 6-8 middle schools and most of them have enrollments smaller than many FCPS 7-8 middle schools.

But they have the buildings they have, and we have the buildings we have. I don’t know how we possibly have 6-8 middle schools in FCPS without massive upheaval and in some cases monster-size schools.

If they move 6th grade to middle schools, most of the middle schools will go from around 1100-1400 students, to 1600-2100 students. Discipline issues will skyrocket with middle schools of that size enrollment.

APS is a tiny district compared to FCPS and has far fewer households with school aged children.

You cannot compare the 2 districts on this one, because their student composition is so different from FCPS.

However, we can compare the middle schools in FCPS. In general, the 6th-8th middle schools on average are far less successful than most of the 7th-8th middle schools, with far more discipline issues.

The only reason to add 6th to middle school is if Reid wants to pull the quality of all FCPS middle schools downward to the lowest common denominator.

So you agree that Glasgow is too big and needs to be fixed.

And the MS that are currently 6th-8th have, as you say, a very different composition than most of the rest of FCPS MS.

The lack of reasoning skills on display in this thread is astounding. I get that re-boundarying is an emotional issue, but it’s clear many of you cannot put together coherent arguments.

Is Jackson middle school of similar composition? I am sure there are 7-8th in FCPS that are similar in composition to Glasgow. I am not even sure if Poe or Holmes is similar in composition to Glasgow.

If you are looking at race, they are similar in demographics for all those schools. Holmes and Poe (3 grades) have about 900 kids and Glasgow 1800 kids. Jackson is two grades with 1000 kids.

The big difference is that Glasgow's population is 94% economically disadvantaged and Poe is 91%. Jackson is 59% and Holmes 67%.

The economically disadvantaged is the issue (besides learning a new language). My friend taught at Glasgow, and besides the MS13 gangs and violence they have to educate kids that have never had a single book in their home. Parents and PTOs put a lot into schools, time and money. You are talking about a school that completely lacks even that resource by its population makeup.

These statistics are off. I can assure you that nowhere near 94% of Glasgow’s kids are economically disadvantaged. They may roll up kids at feeder ES that are deemed 100% disadvantaged for convenience but there are a lot of kids from affluent families in Lake Barcroft and Sleepy Hollow at Glasgow and Justice.

Poe is not truly 91% disadvantaged, either.

+1 Glasgow reported 61% FARMS per the FCPS web site last year. Poe reported 62%, Holmes 57%, and Jackson 55%.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

So, you think that McLean should pony up kids to help Justice? Do you hear yourself?

I've said it repeatedly: The Superintendent and School Board need to address and fix the problem The problem is not solved by pouring in more affluent kids. The problem is solved by addressing the needs of the current students and admitting what the problem is. I don't know anything about Glasgow, but if there is a serious problem there it should be addressed THERE. Spreading the problem around will not fix it.

I own property in the area. The issue with Glasgow is that it was rebuilt from scratch to accommodate almost 1700 kids, including AAP kids, but a lot of the student body is undisciplined and unruly. The community just wants to reduce the enrollment, even if it leaves the school technically under-enrolled, so the administration has fewer kids to supervise.

Both Holmes and Poe, which are nearby, have spare capacity and they are also 6-8 middle schools like Glasgow. The challenge is that Holmes and Poe are already split feeders (Holmes to Annandale and Edison and Poe to Annandale and Falls Church) and moving Glasgow kids there would turn them into three-way split feeders unless the Justice boundaries also change. In addition, the Glasgow neighborhoods closest to Holmes and Poe are mostly single-family areas, so they could end up reducing the number of kids at Glasgow but increasing the concentration of poverty. But I gather some would support that as long as the enrollment is smaller.

Reid wants to make this school the model for all FCPS middle schools.

Giant, unmanageable 6th through 8th grade monstrosities with around 2000 students each.

The 7th-8th middle schools are barely holding the discipline together, and the three 6th-7th-8th middle schools are out of control.

Yet Reid wants that model to go county wide.

It makes no sense fot the school board to expand all the middle schools to 2000 students.

APS has 6-8 middle schools and most of them have enrollments smaller than many FCPS 7-8 middle schools.

But they have the buildings they have, and we have the buildings we have. I don’t know how we possibly have 6-8 middle schools in FCPS without massive upheaval and in some cases monster-size schools.

If they move 6th grade to middle schools, most of the middle schools will go from around 1100-1400 students, to 1600-2100 students. Discipline issues will skyrocket with middle schools of that size enrollment.

APS is a tiny district compared to FCPS and has far fewer households with school aged children.

You cannot compare the 2 districts on this one, because their student composition is so different from FCPS.

However, we can compare the middle schools in FCPS. In general, the 6th-8th middle schools on average are far less successful than most of the 7th-8th middle schools, with far more discipline issues.

The only reason to add 6th to middle school is if Reid wants to pull the quality of all FCPS middle schools downward to the lowest common denominator.

So you agree that Glasgow is too big and needs to be fixed.

And the MS that are currently 6th-8th have, as you say, a very different composition than most of the rest of FCPS MS.

The lack of reasoning skills on display in this thread is astounding. I get that re-boundarying is an emotional issue, but it’s clear many of you cannot put together coherent arguments.

Is Jackson middle school of similar composition? I am sure there are 7-8th in FCPS that are similar in composition to Glasgow. I am not even sure if Poe or Holmes is similar in composition to Glasgow.

If you are looking at race, they are similar in demographics for all those schools. Holmes and Poe (3 grades) have about 900 kids and Glasgow 1800 kids. Jackson is two grades with 1000 kids.

The big difference is that Glasgow's population is 94% economically disadvantaged and Poe is 91%. Jackson is 59% and Holmes 67%.

The economically disadvantaged is the issue (besides learning a new language). My friend taught at Glasgow, and besides the MS13 gangs and violence they have to educate kids that have never had a single book in their home. Parents and PTOs put a lot into schools, time and money. You are talking about a school that completely lacks even that resource by its population makeup.

These statistics are off. I can assure you that nowhere near 94% of Glasgow’s kids are economically disadvantaged. They may roll up kids at feeder ES that are deemed 100% disadvantaged for convenience but there are a lot of kids from affluent families in Lake Barcroft and Sleepy Hollow at Glasgow and Justice.

Poe is not truly 91% disadvantaged, either.

This is what the State is saying on their site.
https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/

The VDOE data, particularly under Youngkin, is often inaccurate. And as previously noted there are instances where an entire school is treated as FARMS-eligible if the percentage of low-income kids exceeds a certain threshold. They just make free lunches available to all the students in those cases. That doesn't mean all the kids are actually economically disadvantaged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

So, you think that McLean should pony up kids to help Justice? Do you hear yourself?

I've said it repeatedly: The Superintendent and School Board need to address and fix the problem The problem is not solved by pouring in more affluent kids. The problem is solved by addressing the needs of the current students and admitting what the problem is. I don't know anything about Glasgow, but if there is a serious problem there it should be addressed THERE. Spreading the problem around will not fix it.

I own property in the area. The issue with Glasgow is that it was rebuilt from scratch to accommodate almost 1700 kids, including AAP kids, but a lot of the student body is undisciplined and unruly. The community just wants to reduce the enrollment, even if it leaves the school technically under-enrolled, so the administration has fewer kids to supervise.

Both Holmes and Poe, which are nearby, have spare capacity and they are also 6-8 middle schools like Glasgow. The challenge is that Holmes and Poe are already split feeders (Holmes to Annandale and Edison and Poe to Annandale and Falls Church) and moving Glasgow kids there would turn them into three-way split feeders unless the Justice boundaries also change. In addition, the Glasgow neighborhoods closest to Holmes and Poe are mostly single-family areas, so they could end up reducing the number of kids at Glasgow but increasing the concentration of poverty. But I gather some would support that as long as the enrollment is smaller.

Reid wants to make this school the model for all FCPS middle schools.

Giant, unmanageable 6th through 8th grade monstrosities with around 2000 students each.

The 7th-8th middle schools are barely holding the discipline together, and the three 6th-7th-8th middle schools are out of control.

Yet Reid wants that model to go county wide.

It makes no sense fot the school board to expand all the middle schools to 2000 students.

APS has 6-8 middle schools and most of them have enrollments smaller than many FCPS 7-8 middle schools.

But they have the buildings they have, and we have the buildings we have. I don’t know how we possibly have 6-8 middle schools in FCPS without massive upheaval and in some cases monster-size schools.

If they move 6th grade to middle schools, most of the middle schools will go from around 1100-1400 students, to 1600-2100 students. Discipline issues will skyrocket with middle schools of that size enrollment.

APS is a tiny district compared to FCPS and has far fewer households with school aged children.

You cannot compare the 2 districts on this one, because their student composition is so different from FCPS.

However, we can compare the middle schools in FCPS. In general, the 6th-8th middle schools on average are far less successful than most of the 7th-8th middle schools, with far more discipline issues.

The only reason to add 6th to middle school is if Reid wants to pull the quality of all FCPS middle schools downward to the lowest common denominator.

So you agree that Glasgow is too big and needs to be fixed.

And the MS that are currently 6th-8th have, as you say, a very different composition than most of the rest of FCPS MS.

The lack of reasoning skills on display in this thread is astounding. I get that re-boundarying is an emotional issue, but it’s clear many of you cannot put together coherent arguments.

Is Jackson middle school of similar composition? I am sure there are 7-8th in FCPS that are similar in composition to Glasgow. I am not even sure if Poe or Holmes is similar in composition to Glasgow.

If you are looking at race, they are similar in demographics for all those schools. Holmes and Poe (3 grades) have about 900 kids and Glasgow 1800 kids. Jackson is two grades with 1000 kids.

The big difference is that Glasgow's population is 94% economically disadvantaged and Poe is 91%. Jackson is 59% and Holmes 67%.

The economically disadvantaged is the issue (besides learning a new language). My friend taught at Glasgow, and besides the MS13 gangs and violence they have to educate kids that have never had a single book in their home. Parents and PTOs put a lot into schools, time and money. You are talking about a school that completely lacks even that resource by its population makeup.

These statistics are off. I can assure you that nowhere near 94% of Glasgow’s kids are economically disadvantaged. They may roll up kids at feeder ES that are deemed 100% disadvantaged for convenience but there are a lot of kids from affluent families in Lake Barcroft and Sleepy Hollow at Glasgow and Justice.

Poe is not truly 91% disadvantaged, either.

This is what the State is saying on their site.
https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/

The VDOE data, particularly under Youngkin, is often inaccurate. And as previously noted there are instances where an entire school is treated as FARMS-eligible if the percentage of low-income kids exceeds a certain threshold. They just make free lunches available to all the students in those cases. That doesn't mean all the kids are actually economically disadvantaged.

Is FCPS misreporting data to the state?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

So, you think that McLean should pony up kids to help Justice? Do you hear yourself?

I've said it repeatedly: The Superintendent and School Board need to address and fix the problem The problem is not solved by pouring in more affluent kids. The problem is solved by addressing the needs of the current students and admitting what the problem is. I don't know anything about Glasgow, but if there is a serious problem there it should be addressed THERE. Spreading the problem around will not fix it.

I own property in the area. The issue with Glasgow is that it was rebuilt from scratch to accommodate almost 1700 kids, including AAP kids, but a lot of the student body is undisciplined and unruly. The community just wants to reduce the enrollment, even if it leaves the school technically under-enrolled, so the administration has fewer kids to supervise.

Both Holmes and Poe, which are nearby, have spare capacity and they are also 6-8 middle schools like Glasgow. The challenge is that Holmes and Poe are already split feeders (Holmes to Annandale and Edison and Poe to Annandale and Falls Church) and moving Glasgow kids there would turn them into three-way split feeders unless the Justice boundaries also change. In addition, the Glasgow neighborhoods closest to Holmes and Poe are mostly single-family areas, so they could end up reducing the number of kids at Glasgow but increasing the concentration of poverty. But I gather some would support that as long as the enrollment is smaller.

Reid wants to make this school the model for all FCPS middle schools.

Giant, unmanageable 6th through 8th grade monstrosities with around 2000 students each.

The 7th-8th middle schools are barely holding the discipline together, and the three 6th-7th-8th middle schools are out of control.

Yet Reid wants that model to go county wide.

It makes no sense fot the school board to expand all the middle schools to 2000 students.

APS has 6-8 middle schools and most of them have enrollments smaller than many FCPS 7-8 middle schools.

But they have the buildings they have, and we have the buildings we have. I don’t know how we possibly have 6-8 middle schools in FCPS without massive upheaval and in some cases monster-size schools.

If they move 6th grade to middle schools, most of the middle schools will go from around 1100-1400 students, to 1600-2100 students. Discipline issues will skyrocket with middle schools of that size enrollment.

APS is a tiny district compared to FCPS and has far fewer households with school aged children.

You cannot compare the 2 districts on this one, because their student composition is so different from FCPS.

However, we can compare the middle schools in FCPS. In general, the 6th-8th middle schools on average are far less successful than most of the 7th-8th middle schools, with far more discipline issues.

The only reason to add 6th to middle school is if Reid wants to pull the quality of all FCPS middle schools downward to the lowest common denominator.

So you agree that Glasgow is too big and needs to be fixed.

And the MS that are currently 6th-8th have, as you say, a very different composition than most of the rest of FCPS MS.

The lack of reasoning skills on display in this thread is astounding. I get that re-boundarying is an emotional issue, but it’s clear many of you cannot put together coherent arguments.

Is Jackson middle school of similar composition? I am sure there are 7-8th in FCPS that are similar in composition to Glasgow. I am not even sure if Poe or Holmes is similar in composition to Glasgow.

If you are looking at race, they are similar in demographics for all those schools. Holmes and Poe (3 grades) have about 900 kids and Glasgow 1800 kids. Jackson is two grades with 1000 kids.

The big difference is that Glasgow's population is 94% economically disadvantaged and Poe is 91%. Jackson is 59% and Holmes 67%.

The economically disadvantaged is the issue (besides learning a new language). My friend taught at Glasgow, and besides the MS13 gangs and violence they have to educate kids that have never had a single book in their home. Parents and PTOs put a lot into schools, time and money. You are talking about a school that completely lacks even that resource by its population makeup.

These statistics are off. I can assure you that nowhere near 94% of Glasgow’s kids are economically disadvantaged. They may roll up kids at feeder ES that are deemed 100% disadvantaged for convenience but there are a lot of kids from affluent families in Lake Barcroft and Sleepy Hollow at Glasgow and Justice.

Poe is not truly 91% disadvantaged, either.

This is what the State is saying on their site.
https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/

The VDOE data, particularly under Youngkin, is often inaccurate. And as previously noted there are instances where an entire school is treated as FARMS-eligible if the percentage of low-income kids exceeds a certain threshold. They just make free lunches available to all the students in those cases. [b] That doesn't mean all the kids are actually economically disadvantaged.

That is common. Once you hit a certain threshold, it is easier/cheaper to provide free lunches to everyone than to do all the paperwork and keep track of all the students who qualify.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think that they need to look at Justice (for a lot of reasons) but Justice right now only has one middle school that feeds it and that is Glasgow. That is a huge problem. Because there is nothing to break up the bad middle school culture and it carries to Justice. They should move some of the Glasgow population to Falls Church or another HS and take from McLean pyramid. Justice needs help.

So, you think that McLean should pony up kids to help Justice? Do you hear yourself?

I've said it repeatedly: The Superintendent and School Board need to address and fix the problem The problem is not solved by pouring in more affluent kids. The problem is solved by addressing the needs of the current students and admitting what the problem is. I don't know anything about Glasgow, but if there is a serious problem there it should be addressed THERE. Spreading the problem around will not fix it.

I own property in the area. The issue with Glasgow is that it was rebuilt from scratch to accommodate almost 1700 kids, including AAP kids, but a lot of the student body is undisciplined and unruly. The community just wants to reduce the enrollment, even if it leaves the school technically under-enrolled, so the administration has fewer kids to supervise.

Both Holmes and Poe, which are nearby, have spare capacity and they are also 6-8 middle schools like Glasgow. The challenge is that Holmes and Poe are already split feeders (Holmes to Annandale and Edison and Poe to Annandale and Falls Church) and moving Glasgow kids there would turn them into three-way split feeders unless the Justice boundaries also change. In addition, the Glasgow neighborhoods closest to Holmes and Poe are mostly single-family areas, so they could end up reducing the number of kids at Glasgow but increasing the concentration of poverty. But I gather some would support that as long as the enrollment is smaller.

Reid wants to make this school the model for all FCPS middle schools.

Giant, unmanageable 6th through 8th grade monstrosities with around 2000 students each.

The 7th-8th middle schools are barely holding the discipline together, and the three 6th-7th-8th middle schools are out of control.

Yet Reid wants that model to go county wide.

It makes no sense fot the school board to expand all the middle schools to 2000 students.

APS has 6-8 middle schools and most of them have enrollments smaller than many FCPS 7-8 middle schools.

But they have the buildings they have, and we have the buildings we have. I don’t know how we possibly have 6-8 middle schools in FCPS without massive upheaval and in some cases monster-size schools.

If they move 6th grade to middle schools, most of the middle schools will go from around 1100-1400 students, to 1600-2100 students. Discipline issues will skyrocket with middle schools of that size enrollment.

APS is a tiny district compared to FCPS and has far fewer households with school aged children.

You cannot compare the 2 districts on this one, because their student composition is so different from FCPS.

However, we can compare the middle schools in FCPS. In general, the 6th-8th middle schools on average are far less successful than most of the 7th-8th middle schools, with far more discipline issues.

The only reason to add 6th to middle school is if Reid wants to pull the quality of all FCPS middle schools downward to the lowest common denominator.

So you agree that Glasgow is too big and needs to be fixed.

And the MS that are currently 6th-8th have, as you say, a very different composition than most of the rest of FCPS MS.

The lack of reasoning skills on display in this thread is astounding. I get that re-boundarying is an emotional issue, but it’s clear many of you cannot put together coherent arguments.

Is Jackson middle school of similar composition? I am sure there are 7-8th in FCPS that are similar in composition to Glasgow. I am not even sure if Poe or Holmes is similar in composition to Glasgow.

If you are looking at race, they are similar in demographics for all those schools. Holmes and Poe (3 grades) have about 900 kids and Glasgow 1800 kids. Jackson is two grades with 1000 kids.

The big difference is that Glasgow's population is 94% economically disadvantaged and Poe is 91%. Jackson is 59% and Holmes 67%.

The economically disadvantaged is the issue (besides learning a new language). My friend taught at Glasgow, and besides the MS13 gangs and violence they have to educate kids that have never had a single book in their home. Parents and PTOs put a lot into schools, time and money. You are talking about a school that completely lacks even that resource by its population makeup.

These statistics are off. I can assure you that nowhere near 94% of Glasgow’s kids are economically disadvantaged. They may roll up kids at feeder ES that are deemed 100% disadvantaged for convenience but there are a lot of kids from affluent families in Lake Barcroft and Sleepy Hollow at Glasgow and Justice.

Poe is not truly 91% disadvantaged, either.

This is what the State is saying on their site.
https://schoolquality.virginia.gov/

The VDOE data, particularly under Youngkin, is often inaccurate. And as previously noted there are instances where an entire school is treated as FARMS-eligible if the percentage of low-income kids exceeds a certain threshold. They just make free lunches available to all the students in those cases. That doesn't mean all the kids are actually economically disadvantaged.

Is FCPS misreporting data to the state?

I don't know if that's the case. I have seen some VDOE statistical reports in recent years that contained obvious errors with respect to individual school enrollment. The fault could lie with FCPS or with VDOE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I could have a grandfathered senior- WSHS and grandfathered 8th grader- Irving but 10th grade SOCO.

Or WSHS+Irving + one at Lewis.

Talk about a disparity in education quality within a single family.

Shame on the school board for using kids as political pawns.

I’m naively hoping our end of HV gets sent to SOCO and not Lewis. But you’re right. I’m more worried about the transportation and high school events for the 2 locations.