When no one else will admit they can't afford something

[Anonymous]

I recently posted the following thread in Family Relationships: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/353702.page

So if you want the whole background, go read that. I'm going to try to make this as concise as possible for anyone who doesn't want to go read the OP on that thread. My DH's family (his parents, his sister and her family, and his brother and his family) places a high value on getting together once a year. Since none of us live close to each other, that involves air travel for some or all of us. While I also place a high value on spending time with family, our financial situation precludes us from travel for at least the next two years (and it won't be peachy keen after that, but I am willing to divert money that Suze Orman would say we should use for something else to do this family get together because it is so important to them). This has actually been a struggle for us for several years and the group dynamic around this makes it very difficult.

I know that we are in the most dire financial situation of the four households, but I'm not at all sure that anyone/everyone else can really afford to do this yearly trip either (depending on your definition of afford, I suppose). I think that the dynamic within the family is that you never admit you can't afford something, you just find a way to do it (i.e. go into debt) and worry about paying for it later. I spoke to my MIL the other day and she admitted to me that when my SIL (her daughter) was getting married, they were in a really perilous financial situation and instead of being upfront with her about their inability to pay for her wedding, they took out loans and just paid it off over the course of several years. I think that was a really stupid decision, but I think she was telling me that because she thinks that's how things should be done.

Do we have enough lines of credit in our names to charge $2-3k a year for this family gathering? Yes. Given the rest of our finances, would it be the most incredibly f-ing stupid decision ever to charge up those credit cards when we can't afford to pay them off? Yes. I guess I'm just looking for some validation from the hawks on the financial forum because my in-laws live in an alternate universe. We are doing the right thing by not charging a trip we can't afford, yes?

[Anonymous]

I believe that you are doing the right thing, and would cheer you on if you decided to be the first to frankly state that you cannot afford the trip this year (or next). There is no shame in that, and you get to decide that "can't afford" means "aren't willing to go (further) into debt to make this happen."

[Anonymous]

No, you should never borrow for a vacation but that was not the issue you raised in the last thread. Perhaps I read it wrong, but I thought your ILs want to pay for your trip-or at least they have in the past- so the whole family can get together. If you have the vacation time and this is a priority for your ILs I'm not sure why you are stressing about it so much. It also sounds like you accept financial assistance from your family without an issue. It sounds like something else is going on here.

[Anonymous]

No you shouldn't borrow for it.

I do think though that if your IL's want to see you bad enough to help you get there.. that's okay. I can understand not wanting to accept charity. They could also fly to see you and you wouldn't have the feelings of guilt, right? However, this way you get to see everyone at once.

[Anonymous]

If you cannot pay cash and have enough in savings for at least 6 months to a year, absolutely no way would I go. Just by posting this tells me it is not in your interest to go.

[Anonymous]

quote=Anonymous]I believe that you are doing the right thing, and would cheer you on if you decided to be the first to frankly state that you cannot afford the trip this year (or next). There is no shame in that, and you get to decide that "can't afford" means "aren't willing to go (further) into debt to make this happen."

I'm this pp. I had not read your previous post when I read this because you indicated that this was a summary of that one, which it is not. You are clearly looking for support in rejecting your in-laws' offers of financial assistance, which is fine, but people reading this thread alone aren't getting the full picture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, you should never borrow for a vacation but that was not the issue you raised in the last thread. Perhaps I read it wrong, but I thought your ILs want to pay for your trip-or at least they have in the past- so the whole family can get together. If you have the vacation time and this is a priority for your ILs I'm not sure why you are stressing about it so much. It also sounds like you accept financial assistance from your family without an issue. It sounds like something else is going on here.

OP here. What connects the two threads is that we (read: I -- DH would probably just charge the credit card if I wasn't the one to put the kibosh on it) are the only family who will admit to not being able to afford the trip. If anyone else couldn't, they would never say so and just quietly go into debt ... so we look tacky and cheap by admitting our situation and trying to do the right thing for the good of our family. This is one of a few aspects of this situation that I find frustrating.

If they would just take "we can't come this year" for an answer I would be so much less stressed. We tried promising to come every other year (so we could save up) and that wasn't good enough for them. DH has suggested waiting until the last minute to tell them we can't come next year so they won't have time to force it, but I doubt that will work because my MIL will be hounding us about it six months in advance.

Money is the biggest source of stress in my life, no doubt. I am embarrassed about our situation and feel a lot of regret about decisions I made years ago that are having repercussions now. This trip causes stress because it is the only major instance where we are asked (demanded) by others to spend money we don't have. There are other things like fundraisers where we may be asked for smaller amounts, but we can elect not to participate without being called out. We can forgo family vacations, decline birthday invitations, sell belongings or pull a child out of preschool if need be and that is all our business. The expectation that we will spend $2-3k per year on this trip forces us into a Hobson's choice of poor mouthing to the whole family or going into (more) debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:quote=Anonymous]I believe that you are doing the right thing, and would cheer you on if you decided to be the first to frankly state that you cannot afford the trip this year (or next). There is no shame in that, and you get to decide that "can't afford" means "aren't willing to go (further) into debt to make this happen."

I'm this pp. I had not read your previous post when I read this because you indicated that this was a summary of that one, which it is not. You are clearly looking for support in rejecting your in-laws' offers of financial assistance, which is fine, but people reading this thread alone aren't getting the full picture.

Since I posted that thread, everyone decided to come to Virginia this year so my children could spend time with their cousins ... but an hour away so we will just have to drop the older ones off there for a few days rather than all of us being together. I don't know what will happen next year, but I don't expect to have our plane tickets paid for again. Based on my conversation with my MIL the other day, I think the pressure is going to be ratcheted up rather than them swooping in to save the day again. Her perspective is that we can't wait for finances to improve because the kids are growing up and these years will be gone too soon so we have to just make it happen regardless. I sympathize with that -- it's how I always justified to myself spending money I didn't have -- but I'm experiencing the folly of that way of thinking and am trying to change and not getting any support. Everyone in this forum is so frugal and conservative about money -- brutally so -- I figured it was the place to have my perspective validated.

[Anonymous]

I'm 16.23. I think you have to be honest with your husband's family and tell them it is not financially in the cards w/ the expenses of young kids. That is an issue that a lot of families have and it is what it is. You shouldn't put it on a credit card or go further in debt. I think the question is what do you do if they offer to pay and most people have recommended you go. If you can't bring yourself to go at least let your husband and kids go. If you don't accept this gift from your inlaws I am not sure how you accept any gifts from your family.

[Anonymous]

I would be fine saying we can't afford to go, and I have said that in the past to our families. However, if that is not the only issue, we say something else, because MIL will insist on paying for the whole trip (and we've accepted in the past when money was the only barrier) and my father will offer some illogical portion of the cost but it will still cost us too much to be worth it.

[Anonymous]

Pp- just saw your earlier post. It is great that they are making the effort and coming to you. Given how everyone is trying really hard to keep the tradition of a yearly vacation work you should scrub your budget and see if you can make it work for '15. If you can't then you politely decline and hold firm. When asked say it isn't possible and repeat as necessary.

[Anonymous]

Can't you just say you are coming and then claim a major issue at work is preventing you? That's what I'd do. You "sve face", and the excuse is at least reasonable (even if untrue).

[Anonymous]

I suppose I have a dissenting opinion. Clearly, seeing your family is important for your in-laws. It seems to be important for your husband as well. It is a pretty reasonable position. Kids grow and change tremendously in a year. In this particular case, I think FAMILY TRUMPS MONEY.

Now, you can be financially responsible about visiting. If you feel so uncomfortable about accepting help, or embarrassed to air your financial circumstances, then the onus is on you to find a way to make visiting happen WITHOUT GOING INTO DEBT. Cut cable, stop eating out/ordering in, only shop at thrift stores, sell a car, etc.

YOU were the one who made the poor financial decisions earlier. Don't punish your in-laws for your mistakes. Find a way to save that money. Your choices are not just to accept a handout or go into debt. Where there's a will, there's a way. Sounds like you just don't want to find a way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can't you just say you are coming and then claim a major issue at work is preventing you? That's what I'd do. You "sve face", and the excuse is at least reasonable (even if untrue).

Passive aggressive alert!

[Anonymous]

You are in a tough spot. Here's the thing though, you can't control MIL and FIL actions but you can control your actions. Don't go into debt for the family get togethers. You would still be trying to keep up with the Joneses but in this case the Joneses share your last name! I think your compromise of every other year was more than reasonable. DH has to be the one to talk to his parents but they have to realize that this is driving a wedge rather than bringing the relationship closer. I think it important to you to stand on your own and they are putting pressure to spend what you don't have or feel shamed. Would they prefer you lie, back out at the last minute, make your financial situation worse by going into more debt, or constantly feel dependent on someone else? Could you challenge them to think of other options in the off year you don't fly out that would still keep them involved with the grandkids? Could they come out to visit you guys one week in the summer and do activities with the kids? Can you skpe every week with the family? Would they do word with friends, mince craft, fb etc with the grandkids to take an interest in things they are interested in? From my childhood I don't remember spending a lot of time with my grandparents at big family gatherings, the kids play with cousins and adults want to talk to the other adults so I think you try to balance the get together with individual time/interactions with the grandkids.

The only thing I would add is that you mention that you have gotten help from your family in the past. I am assuming it has either been not at the same level i.e. let me take the kids back to school shopping not $1500 plane tickets and less frequent (not the every year pressure to travel). If my assumption is wrong then you do need to make sure you aren't holding your husband's family to a different standard.