Trapped/Re-aging Families, How are you having the conversation?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Hahahaha maybe you should read the papers so its not so easy to make you look stupid.

"So, while the US also uses the calendar year to determine age groups for youth players, the inevitably smaller pool of children willing/able to pay for youth soccer may cause the more balanced distribution we have witnessed above"

the above sentence is why the paper needed to be peer reviewed, because it suggests the author was unaware of the age registration change.

Im surprised you didnt slip rae into that excuse somehow.

It's a fascinating set of data but more needs to be done to understand why the numbers are they way they are. The author provides a theory BUT at best he doesn't address the SY/BY switch. That's a potential flaw in his reasoning and he should have at least discussed it, especially if aware, like he did with other possible reasons for the numbers.

In his defense, he is a data scientist, his goal is to use a few charts to show lines going up and down to show what is happening. He isn't pupporting to understand why something is happening, he is merely speculating which he freely admits. Causation isn't in his occupation.

More than fair. We're lucky he looked at it and it showed some interesting trends that confirmed a lot of other studies but raised new questions. and in a way, we're crowdsourcing some review, although I'm not sure I could say I'm a peer.

I'm sure the dude who find incredibly fascinating that a group of randos is parsing his chart like it is the map to a treasure chest.

Most scientists appreciate questions and a shared desire to seek knowledge regardless of result. You create a hypothesis and test it and then see if others can repeat it. That's the peer review process and science in general.

I agree, I'm sure he would enjoy talking about it. He only had a few other unrelated data type papers so he is into the subject expert stuff except of course data presentation.

So this is your new angle? Pathetic.

Don't like the results attack the author

I know for a fact that he has 2 more published articles than you do. Such a loser.

So much here in such a short response. Yes, academics like talking about their work, it's a main reason why they did the work, so they can talk about it and carve it out as their space. 2nd, you don't seem to know what a published article is. And finally, you don't know me so making any assumptions about my CV or h-index would be ridiculous.

I'm 99% sure that you're a pompous know it all. Leaning back on a degree for validation. would go hand in hand.

Degrees aren't for leaning on, like a stool while working at the mall, there for waving like a flag at a victory day parade, baby!

You got the stool part right.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'm getting lost on what the argument is?

Is one side saying there is no way to play college if not playing on grade? Or is that argument that you can get recruited but exposure will be significantly limited?

And is the other side saying there is absolutely no negative impact to playing with the lower grade? Or is that argument that you can do that when young and then adjust later?

We'll be changing from BY to SY this fall. In SY 8/1-7/31 because different school districts start at different times there is a potential for the youngest in the grade (August September birthdays) to play on a club team thats a grade down from them I. school. As an example they would be the only 6th grade player on a team of 5th grade players.

This causes issues when players are looking to get recruited and play in college because 90% of recruiting occurs in players Sophmore year (official offers occur Junior year). If you're and Aug birthday Sophmore playing on a team with freshman you will get ignored / immediately discounted by college recruiters. To address the issue Aug/Sept birthdays just need to play up on a team with players their grade in school.

Theres several other issues playing down a grade creates. But college recruitment is the big one.

If the Aug or Sept birthday player isn’t good enough to play up with their grade year, then he isn’t good enough to get recruited with his grade year. Not that hard to understand!

Clubs mostly said no playing up, college coaches said they don't need you to play up. Case by case. No hard and fast rules. No judgement.

I agree with this, however, would a player playing on age end up being at a disadvantage when they end up having to mix with their grade at showcases or when they play on grade/year their freshman year in college? Is there any literature/research that addresses this point?

The relative age effect literature shows the advantages of being the oldest in an age group when young and it decreasing as the kids get older but overall having a cumulative effect so in theory if you switch age groups after the bulk of puberty it wouldn't matter because at that point there isn't as much difference between the age groups as when the kids are really young. But every kid is different and you know yours best, best of luck with yours.

This makes sense in terms of comparing physical abilities between players. I do wonder about the influence of the level of competition of a player playing with a lower grade and have to then start mixing with higher grades during their later years. Although one can argue a player playing with a lower grade could get more touches on the ball which would also have a positive impact on their development.

Hopefully kids can play on teams at some point where they are dominate to gain confidence, and other times where they are average to below average to humble them into working to get better, regardless of grade. Switching teams and trying out are skills to be learned regardless of playing on age or up.

Nope, you're not going to steal some other kids opportunity by playing down.

Of course you can't play down but it is an interesting point. Technically everybody is taking someone else's spot whatever age group they play. But there would have to be a point where because that one kid is playing, the club can put together another team. So sometimes one kid playing lets 9 or so other kids play that wouldn't have been able to. Keep playing to save those 9 or so kids.

Not to be a jerk because it seems like you're just starting to figure this stuff out.

But, there literally are parents and club owners that want Aug/Sept players to play down. It makes the parents with lower level players feel like winners and club owners make more money from an extra year of club.

When you call it out they get crazy just like you see here. They hate when parents take control and say enough of the nonsense.

Teams on their FAQ were very clear that you can't play down, and that they are trying to get the clubs to SY by playing everyone on age. And the whole point of RAE, the older part of the age group feels like winners, gets motivated and doubles down on playing soccer. Sports teams are always musical chairs.

There is no point in rae. No matter how you slice the bread there will always be winners and losers.

The problem with rae is it gives the losers something to grab onto and potentially use to leverage hurt feelings onto an A team roster spot.

If the clubs evaluated players more on skill and less on size and speed for wins, RAE wouldn't be an issue. RAE is caused by coaches gunning for wins. RAE is huge.

Rae is a figment of loser parents imagination. Its the perfect excuse that can be used for anthing.

Do you have any research indicating that RAE is a myth and the academics that have spent their lives studying it are wrong and you are right?

Yes I do

https://medium.com/@giacorada/the-fascinating-birth-trend-among-professional-soccer-players-b2a48d015e7d

I really like this chart because shows that if you want you boy to play soccer professionally, you want them to be born in the oldest months of the age group when they were kids, Aug for SY and Jan for BY and you don't want them to be the youngest, Jun/July for SY and Dec for BY.

Thank you.

Meme guy should re-read your response. It's a good theory.

Its your theory and not what the author indicated or relayed.

Just you trying to manipulate reality.

No, I'm not the dude who said this: "I really like this chart because shows that if you want you boy to play soccer professionally, you want them to be born in the oldest months of the age group when they were kids, Aug for SY and Jan for BY and you don't want them to be the youngest, Jun/July for SY and Dec for BY."

I just think that's a plausible interpretation. I don't think the author's is completely off base about pay-to-play. I think he might adjust this theory to address the SY/BY change.

Sorry you think you are jousting with 1 person. You are not.

Im not jousting with anyone.

The author showed using data that other countries were front end loaded with BY.

They also showed that America isnt front end loaded with birthdays evenly distributed (mostly) the entire year. They extrapolated that the reason for this was P2P clubs prioritizing $$$ over talent. Which allowed younger players to hang around longer and eventually evenly distribute across the entire year.

If you want to play a guessing game its interesting that America is distributed evenly across the whole year with all the pro players from other countries participating in MLS..

They didn't extrapolate reasons. A data scientist would take offense at that suggestion.

read the article

"back to our hypothesis of a strong influence from youth development programs, I’d like to offer an ulterior explanation: financial impact.

Unlike most European and South American countries, the US youth development structure is based on a “Pay-to-Play” model, which relies heavily on financial compensation from the players. In other words, it is a LOT more expensive to play for a youth team in the US than most other countries. The large yearly financial costs can deter many children from joining youth teams. "

Keep reading

Unlike most European and South American countries, the US youth development structure is based on a “Pay-to-Play” model, which relies heavily on financial compensation from the players. In other words, it is a LOT more expensive to play for a youth team in the US than most other countries. The large yearly financial costs can deter many children from joining youth teams. So, while the US also uses the calendar year to determine age groups for youth players, the inevitably smaller pool of children willing/able to pay for youth soccer may cause the more balanced distribution we have witnessed above"

No clue what. you're trying to relay

This might be more helpful ... He said "may"

So, while the US also uses the calendar year to determine age groups for youth players, the inevitably smaller pool of children willing/able to pay for youth soccer may cause the more balanced distribution we have witnessed above"

He also called for more research on this specifically.

Financial Impact: Investigate the impact of financial stability, particularly in the US, on becoming a professional soccer player. Utilize features such as income of families, location, etc. to determine if financial limitations contribute to the observed birth trends.

This guy was super earnest -- which is why I believe he'd gladly add the SY to BY to now SY dynamic to his analysis if he wrote another paper and if someone raised that question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hahahaha maybe you should read the papers so its not so easy to make you look stupid.

"So, while the US also uses the calendar year to determine age groups for youth players, the inevitably smaller pool of children willing/able to pay for youth soccer may cause the more balanced distribution we have witnessed above"

the above sentence is why the paper needed to be peer reviewed, because it suggests the author was unaware of the age registration change.

Im surprised you didnt slip rae into that excuse somehow.

It's a fascinating set of data but more needs to be done to understand why the numbers are they way they are. The author provides a theory BUT at best he doesn't address the SY/BY switch. That's a potential flaw in his reasoning and he should have at least discussed it, especially if aware, like he did with other possible reasons for the numbers.

In his defense, he is a data scientist, his goal is to use a few charts to show lines going up and down to show what is happening. He isn't pupporting to understand why something is happening, he is merely speculating which he freely admits. Causation isn't in his occupation.

More than fair. We're lucky he looked at it and it showed some interesting trends that confirmed a lot of other studies but raised new questions. and in a way, we're crowdsourcing some review, although I'm not sure I could say I'm a peer.

I'm sure the dude who find incredibly fascinating that a group of randos is parsing his chart like it is the map to a treasure chest.

Most scientists appreciate questions and a shared desire to seek knowledge regardless of result. You create a hypothesis and test it and then see if others can repeat it. That's the peer review process and science in general.

I agree, I'm sure he would enjoy talking about it. He only had a few other unrelated data type papers so he is into the subject expert stuff except of course data presentation.

So this is your new angle? Pathetic.

Don't like the results attack the author

I know for a fact that he has 2 more published articles than you do. Such a loser.

So much here in such a short response. Yes, academics like talking about their work, it's a main reason why they did the work, so they can talk about it and carve it out as their space. 2nd, you don't seem to know what a published article is. And finally, you don't know me so making any assumptions about my CV or h-index would be ridiculous.

I'm 99% sure that you're a pompous know it all. Leaning back on a degree for validation. would go hand in hand.

Degrees aren't for leaning on, like a stool while working at the mall, there for waving like a flag at a victory day parade, baby!

You got the stool part right.

Sorry, of course I didn't know you work at a mall. My bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm getting lost on what the argument is?

Is one side saying there is no way to play college if not playing on grade? Or is that argument that you can get recruited but exposure will be significantly limited?

And is the other side saying there is absolutely no negative impact to playing with the lower grade? Or is that argument that you can do that when young and then adjust later?

We'll be changing from BY to SY this fall. In SY 8/1-7/31 because different school districts start at different times there is a potential for the youngest in the grade (August September birthdays) to play on a club team thats a grade down from them I. school. As an example they would be the only 6th grade player on a team of 5th grade players.

This causes issues when players are looking to get recruited and play in college because 90% of recruiting occurs in players Sophmore year (official offers occur Junior year). If you're and Aug birthday Sophmore playing on a team with freshman you will get ignored / immediately discounted by college recruiters. To address the issue Aug/Sept birthdays just need to play up on a team with players their grade in school.

Theres several other issues playing down a grade creates. But college recruitment is the big one.

If the Aug or Sept birthday player isn’t good enough to play up with their grade year, then he isn’t good enough to get recruited with his grade year. Not that hard to understand!

Clubs mostly said no playing up, college coaches said they don't need you to play up. Case by case. No hard and fast rules. No judgement.

I agree with this, however, would a player playing on age end up being at a disadvantage when they end up having to mix with their grade at showcases or when they play on grade/year their freshman year in college? Is there any literature/research that addresses this point?

The relative age effect literature shows the advantages of being the oldest in an age group when young and it decreasing as the kids get older but overall having a cumulative effect so in theory if you switch age groups after the bulk of puberty it wouldn't matter because at that point there isn't as much difference between the age groups as when the kids are really young. But every kid is different and you know yours best, best of luck with yours.

This makes sense in terms of comparing physical abilities between players. I do wonder about the influence of the level of competition of a player playing with a lower grade and have to then start mixing with higher grades during their later years. Although one can argue a player playing with a lower grade could get more touches on the ball which would also have a positive impact on their development.

Hopefully kids can play on teams at some point where they are dominate to gain confidence, and other times where they are average to below average to humble them into working to get better, regardless of grade. Switching teams and trying out are skills to be learned regardless of playing on age or up.

Nope, you're not going to steal some other kids opportunity by playing down.

I have yet not seen one club that allows players to play down. Kids who have a misaligned age and grade did not choose this reality and you should be more considerate before making someone on the team feel bad about being there. Furthermore, you shouldn't force people to play up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm getting lost on what the argument is?

Is one side saying there is no way to play college if not playing on grade? Or is that argument that you can get recruited but exposure will be significantly limited?

And is the other side saying there is absolutely no negative impact to playing with the lower grade? Or is that argument that you can do that when young and then adjust later?

We'll be changing from BY to SY this fall. In SY 8/1-7/31 because different school districts start at different times there is a potential for the youngest in the grade (August September birthdays) to play on a club team thats a grade down from them I. school. As an example they would be the only 6th grade player on a team of 5th grade players.

This causes issues when players are looking to get recruited and play in college because 90% of recruiting occurs in players Sophmore year (official offers occur Junior year). If you're and Aug birthday Sophmore playing on a team with freshman you will get ignored / immediately discounted by college recruiters. To address the issue Aug/Sept birthdays just need to play up on a team with players their grade in school.

Theres several other issues playing down a grade creates. But college recruitment is the big one.

If the Aug or Sept birthday player isn’t good enough to play up with their grade year, then he isn’t good enough to get recruited with his grade year. Not that hard to understand!

Clubs mostly said no playing up, college coaches said they don't need you to play up. Case by case. No hard and fast rules. No judgement.

I agree with this, however, would a player playing on age end up being at a disadvantage when they end up having to mix with their grade at showcases or when they play on grade/year their freshman year in college? Is there any literature/research that addresses this point?

The relative age effect literature shows the advantages of being the oldest in an age group when young and it decreasing as the kids get older but overall having a cumulative effect so in theory if you switch age groups after the bulk of puberty it wouldn't matter because at that point there isn't as much difference between the age groups as when the kids are really young. But every kid is different and you know yours best, best of luck with yours.

This makes sense in terms of comparing physical abilities between players. I do wonder about the influence of the level of competition of a player playing with a lower grade and have to then start mixing with higher grades during their later years. Although one can argue a player playing with a lower grade could get more touches on the ball which would also have a positive impact on their development.

It also depends what level the lower grade is. Say MLSN/ECNL/GA vs. ECNL RL/GA-Aspire. I also think it depends on the player's trajectory. What team level are they coming from? Everyone's journey is different and the goal should be a combination of these best team/playing time/level/coach/culture.

Where RAE is most significant is before any of these teams exist. Try again.

Rae is a bunch of garbage that losers use to try and justify being unable to compete.

Oh, you thought your January 2nd born kid was just superior to December 18th born kid because of his skills, and not the fact he's biologically a year older?

[Anonymous]

Arlington is grouping Aug and Sept birthdays by grade during tryouts.

"For Arlington it appears at the younger age groups they are separating based on date of birth (Aug-July) and for the HS age groups they are also taking into consideration Grade. So August and Sept kids who didn't "reclassify" are going to scrimmage with the older age group at least for the first scrimmage."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Arlington is grouping Aug and Sept birthdays by grade during tryouts.

"For Arlington it appears at the younger age groups they are separating based on date of birth (Aug-July) and for the HS age groups they are also taking into consideration Grade. So August and Sept kids who didn't "reclassify" are going to scrimmage with the older age group at least for the first scrimmage."

Does the league Arlington belong to bracket by school grade or calendar age?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Arlington is grouping Aug and Sept birthdays by grade during tryouts.

"For Arlington it appears at the younger age groups they are separating based on date of birth (Aug-July) and for the HS age groups they are also taking into consideration Grade. So August and Sept kids who didn't "reclassify" are going to scrimmage with the older age group at least for the first scrimmage."

Does the league Arlington belong to bracket by school grade or calendar age?

They are grouped like everyone else. You did not get the link?

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

"Arlington did not do this for all older kids. August birthdays who are grade level were with the younger kids. They went strictly by the August 1 cutoff for my child's age group"

[Anonymous]

"and for the HS age groups they are also taking into consideration Grade. So August and Sept kids who didn't "reclassify" are going to scrimmage with the older age group"

[Anonymous]

And the crazy season has begun….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"and for the HS age groups they are also taking into consideration Grade. So August and Sept kids who didn't "reclassify" are going to scrimmage with the older age group"

Arlington didn't do this for all older kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"and for the HS age groups they are also taking into consideration Grade. So August and Sept kids who didn't "reclassify" are going to scrimmage with the older age group"

Arlington didn't do this for all older kids.

Just the ones that matter. Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"and for the HS age groups they are also taking into consideration Grade. So August and Sept kids who didn't "reclassify" are going to scrimmage with the older age group"

Arlington didn't do this for all older kids.

Just the ones that matter. Got it.

Well, yeah they said only the best get to play up regardless of grade.