Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Maybe the second ATC who left early (because of staff shortages) would have been more specific re where the plane was. Some pilots say absolutely should be been more specific in that air space. Anyone know what is actually required?

How much more specific could they have been? I’m sure the helicopter team would’ve been offended by being talked down to as if they didn’t know what they were doing. That happens all the time across all career paths. Additional instruction is taken as an insult to your abilities.

True. There have been plane crashes because a subordinate didn’t want to be “disrespectful” of a boss.

This is ATC. they’re not anyone’s boss

I replied to the person who referenced the helicopter team—not ATC.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Who is the person obsessed with the names of the VIP and people on the plane(s) for the last 50 pages? You don't have any decent points to contribute and you just post the same pointless, irrelevant question over and over.

You think its just one person? Everyone I know IRL wants to know who the "VIP" was. If you are from here, you know how much abuse there is with these VIP flights. It was probably Elon's kid, or someone's dog.

Get out of your petty obsessed echo chamber then. Your comments and harping are dumber than rocks.

Let’s say your wet dream comes true and Elon Musk forced a Black Hawk to come up to drive him to Langley at 7pm and then they went back.

They went back to base and flew incompetently and dangerously. Why is TBD, if we ever find out.

Nothing to do with Trump or musk.

NP. I am not sure why this is so confusing to people. If it was someone from the Senate Committee on Intelligence and the news had reported that the helo was flying back from dropping off the senator at Langley, I don't think anyone would have blinked. Everyone understands that VIPs take helicopters. We may think it's a waste of tax payer money but no one would have thought twice about it. But if it was Elon Musk, yes, I personally would be livid. And it would be a sign of government corruption.

Exactly. If the trip to Langley had a legitimate purpose no one would have blinked. Which is why withholding it makes it seem illegitimate.

I have an idea.

Let's tell China, Iran, N Korea and Russia how many times we do BH practice runs with high security VIPs, and exactly what routes, what days/times, and publish that all asap!

Why? Because some fixated anonymous internet fool thinks that's the key to a Black Hawk helicopter ramming a commercial airliner and killing everyone later that evening.

Yeah, makes sense.

LOL at your trying to pretend like the current administration gives a crap about national security. They are selling all our secrets to the highest bidder.

Sorry but the administration has nothing to do with a Blackhawk flying at the wrong altitude and position over the river, near an airport.

We see you changing the topic because you know you’re wrong.

Lol

Does some loon here think the helo was off course and off altitude b/c of the Trump administration?

1. FAA director for Ed to resign January 20 because Musk doesn’t want to follow safety guidelines.

2. FAA safety advisory board fired.

3. ATCs asked to resign by email by Musk. Meanwhile, they continue to receive daily and numerous abusive emails saying they are not productive and should resign.

4. Trump rescinds job offers to ATCs.

[Anonymous]

5. Airline passenger count in and out of National plummets. Overall decline in air travel as public becomes wary, decides not to fly for random trips.
6. NavCanada takes over FAA ATC after airlines and.
airports raise hell with DumpMusk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the person obsessed with the names of the VIP and people on the plane(s) for the last 50 pages? You don't have any decent points to contribute and you just post the same pointless, irrelevant question over and over.

You think its just one person? Everyone I know IRL wants to know who the "VIP" was. If you are from here, you know how much abuse there is with these VIP flights. It was probably Elon's kid, or someone's dog.

Get out of your petty obsessed echo chamber then. Your comments and harping are dumber than rocks.

Let’s say your wet dream comes true and Elon Musk forced a Black Hawk to come up to drive him to Langley at 7pm and then they went back.

They went back to base and flew incompetently and dangerously. Why is TBD, if we ever find out.

Nothing to do with Trump or musk.

NP. I am not sure why this is so confusing to people. If it was someone from the Senate Committee on Intelligence and the news had reported that the helo was flying back from dropping off the senator at Langley, I don't think anyone would have blinked. Everyone understands that VIPs take helicopters. We may think it's a waste of tax payer money but no one would have thought twice about it. But if it was Elon Musk, yes, I personally would be livid. And it would be a sign of government corruption.

Exactly. If the trip to Langley had a legitimate purpose no one would have blinked. Which is why withholding it makes it seem illegitimate.

I have an idea.

Let's tell China, Iran, N Korea and Russia how many times we do BH practice runs with high security VIPs, and exactly what routes, what days/times, and publish that all asap!

Why? Because some fixated anonymous internet fool thinks that's the key to a Black Hawk helicopter ramming a commercial airliner and killing everyone later that evening.

Yeah, makes sense.

LOL at your trying to pretend like the current administration gives a crap about national security. They are selling all our secrets to the highest bidder.

Sorry but the administration has nothing to do with a Blackhawk flying at the wrong altitude and position over the river, near an airport.

We see you changing the topic because you know you’re wrong.

Lol

Does some loon here think the helo was off course and off altitude b/c of the Trump administration?

1. FAA director for Ed to resign January 20 because Musk doesn’t want to follow safety guidelines.

2. FAA safety advisory board fired.

3. ATCs asked to resign by email by Musk. Meanwhile, they continue to receive daily and numerous abusive emails saying they are not productive and should resign.

4. Trump rescinds job offers to ATCs.

Was the safety advisory board considering closing the helicopter routes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NTSB report confirmed heli was flying too high, why are we still discussing this?

I agree. To me the only question that remains is are we looking at malicious intent or gross incompetence. My money is on the latter.

Or something mechanical. These are really the only three viable possibilities at this time- but agree it looks like gross incompetence. Blaming Trump, Musk, some VIP, FAA is all wild and delusional

[Anonymous]

He wanted to be like that guy in N Korea. Trying to keep everyone in is that what the germaphobe is doing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm starting to think most of the fault lies with FAA approving the helicopter flight path. Only 100 feet of vertical clearance with a landing plane is insane (and this is with everyone following directions exactly). And I didn't realize until I watched an expert video just how many blind spots there are on the BH and the fact that helicopters fly slightly tilted down, so that inhibits pilots ability to see upwards. This was really a disaster waiting to happen.

Yup. Plus, I’d like to know more about the individual who had their hands on the BH controls.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Who was the ATC who left their shift early? Who was the supervisor who let them?

Maybe they had explosive diarrhea. You have no idea the circumstances.

Shouldn't they have a backup?

They'd just received an email asking them to resign. They are already understaffed. But maybe you can ask the Peter Thiel boy toys helping Elon Musk break into the government computer systems.

They have access to classified info already, so maybe the 19 yo who goes by "bigballs" can help you or maybe Luke Farritor can let you know why they didn't have backup.

After all, they are in charge at OPM now!

ATC is not allowed to resign. They aren't part of that deal that's being offered.

As someone else pointed out, they received an email suggesting they resign.

This crash is Trump’s fault.

The crash was not due to an ATC staffing issue (which has been short for YEARS). We already know several of the multiple errors that have led to the crash, and none of them are a problem with ATC. But you know that..

Not the PP to whom you're responding, but: An ATC in the DCA tower was handling both plane and helicopter traffic, earlier in the evening than was standard practice, apparently because another controller left work early. The two types of aircraft were supposed to be handled by separate ATCs until 9:30 p.m. But on that night, a solo ATC was handling both about an hour earlier than normal. This is according to reporting in the Post and many other outlets.

No one is saying yet whether this change caused or even affected the crash at all; that is for the investigators to decide. But it is foolish and extremely premature of you to insist at this time that ATC staffing and/or actions had nothing to do with events that night.

It can be done by two, but combining the roles to one person is also within the current safety standards of FAA. No safety protocols were broken

NP. Yet dozens of people were broken into pieces and scattered in the Potomac. Go to hell.

I’ve been avoiding this discussion and other real news out of a sense of powerlessness. We know exactly what can happen when government is deliberately hobbled from operating correctly. This is exactly the kind of cost when Republicans get what they want. This is exactly the goal ultimately of the Reagan Revolution and shrinking the dependent baby of government until you drown it in a bathtub. People die in hideously unnecessary ways. I hate every soul who voted for this. It’s your fault along with the fascistic drug-addicted sht stains running things now.

The crash was in no way Trump or his administration’s fault. You have a lot of misplaced anger

You don't know that. The helicopter was a critical part of this accident. What were they doing? Who were they transporting? Why were they flying in that place at that time where they hit the plane? Would they have been doing that if Trump had not won the election?

This. And this is why the VIP prior flight info is not publicly known. There’s a reason for it. What I wrote was g.d.’d accurate.

There’s a bigger picture, and it’s not a conspiracy. The current government is the crudely presented logical extension of the smaller better government the architects of Reaganism have been pushing for since 1980. God I wish this site encouraged people to see the forest some times. There is a cost to “lean staffing” and “efficiency.”

Lol

You’re such a broken, broken record.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe the second ATC who left early (because of staff shortages) would have been more specific re where the plane was. Some pilots say absolutely should be been more specific in that air space. Anyone know what is actually required?

How much more specific could they have been? I’m sure the helicopter team would’ve been offended by being talked down to as if they didn’t know what they were doing. That happens all the time across all career paths. Additional instruction is taken as an insult to your abilities.

Agree, not casting any blame, but appears the helo crew was quick to respond both times along the lines of "yeah yeah we got it, visual sep pls, thank you".

Some kind of a malfunction, maybe the altimeter will likely be the proximal cause.
We need to invest in finding ways to fail safely.

If you look on Reddit aviation, someone called this situation the most common ‘lie’ in flying. That a pilot is typically focused on their instruments and just reflexively says ‘plane in view’ or whatever and then gives themselves a second to adjust their view and get the object in site. I guess this time it didn’t work.

If the ATC had been more specific, it might have helped. If the airport wasn’t so busy, it might have helped. And most of all, clearly the rules about helo flying under heavy jet traffic with only visual separation has to be re thought. Hopefully the rules will change. This was an accident waiting to happen.

This was one of the less busy “zones of time” Reagan experiences FWIW.

Probably. 4-7pm and 6-9am looks way busier. Oh well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m starting to feel like instead of figuring out how much we can pinpoint blame on any specific pilot, passenger, or VIP, everything really needs to be reassessed at a systemic level: the congestion at DCA, working conditions/staffing for ATCs, approved flight paths and protocols.

The bigger picture that this could happen at all has some troubling implications for a real continuity-of-govt evacuation situation (in which something so dire could occur requiring this evacuation route, but traffic at DCA could not be diverted/grounded in time)

Altitude requirement was clear.

East bank river requirement was clear.

You shakeup a bunch of deflections and excuses but those two facts remain, and are the mean reason for he collision and fatalities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NTSB report confirmed heli was flying too high, why are we still discussing this?

Politics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the person obsessed with the names of the VIP and people on the plane(s) for the last 50 pages? You don't have any decent points to contribute and you just post the same pointless, irrelevant question over and over.

You think its just one person? Everyone I know IRL wants to know who the "VIP" was. If you are from here, you know how much abuse there is with these VIP flights. It was probably Elon's kid, or someone's dog.

Get out of your petty obsessed echo chamber then. Your comments and harping are dumber than rocks.

Let’s say your wet dream comes true and Elon Musk forced a Black Hawk to come up to drive him to Langley at 7pm and then they went back.

They went back to base and flew incompetently and dangerously. Why is TBD, if we ever find out.

Nothing to do with Trump or musk.

NP. I am not sure why this is so confusing to people. If it was someone from the Senate Committee on Intelligence and the news had reported that the helo was flying back from dropping off the senator at Langley, I don't think anyone would have blinked. Everyone understands that VIPs take helicopters. We may think it's a waste of tax payer money but no one would have thought twice about it. But if it was Elon Musk, yes, I personally would be livid. And it would be a sign of government corruption.

Exactly. If the trip to Langley had a legitimate purpose no one would have blinked. Which is why withholding it makes it seem illegitimate.

I have an idea.

Let's tell China, Iran, N Korea and Russia how many times we do BH practice runs with high security VIPs, and exactly what routes, what days/times, and publish that all asap!

Why? Because some fixated anonymous internet fool thinks that's the key to a Black Hawk helicopter ramming a commercial airliner and killing everyone later that evening.

Yeah, makes sense.

LOL at your trying to pretend like the current administration gives a crap about national security. They are selling all our secrets to the highest bidder.

Sorry but the administration has nothing to do with a Blackhawk flying at the wrong altitude and position over the river, near an airport.

We see you changing the topic because you know you’re wrong.

Lol

Does some loon here think the helo was off course and off altitude b/c of the Trump administration?

1. FAA director for Ed to resign January 20 because Musk doesn’t want to follow safety guidelines.

2. FAA safety advisory board fired.

3. ATCs asked to resign by email by Musk. Meanwhile, they continue to receive daily and numerous abusive emails saying they are not productive and should resign.

4. Trump rescinds job offers to ATCs.

Lol

[Anonymous]

Considering that the WTOP and other news sources are reporting that the CIA employees received buy out offers, my guess is the "VIP" that was flown to Langley was Musk. Hence even the almost immediate reaction by the WH to blame DEI for the crash.

https://wtop.com/politics/2025/02/cia-sends-buyout-offers-to-entire-workforce/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NTSB report confirmed heli was flying too high, why are we still discussing this?

I agree. To me the only question that remains is are we looking at malicious intent or gross incompetence. My money is on the latter.

Or something mechanical. These are really the only three viable possibilities at this time- but agree it looks like gross incompetence. Blaming Trump, Musk, some VIP, FAA is all wild and delusional

Or something medical with the BH pilots. Hence waiting for the reports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm starting to think most of the fault lies with FAA approving the helicopter flight path. Only 100 feet of vertical clearance with a landing plane is insane (and this is with everyone following directions exactly). And I didn't realize until I watched an expert video just how many blind spots there are on the BH and the fact that helicopters fly slightly tilted down, so that inhibits pilots ability to see upwards. This was really a disaster waiting to happen.

Yup. Plus, I’d like to know more about the individual who had their hands on the BH controls.

Because...you're an expert?