Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read an article that said it was the fault of the air traffic control man who was doing two jobs and did not confirm things with the helicopter pilot. Why isn't anyone talking about that? Is it because he is a white male? He admitted it.

Good for you, now read the nTSB report recently released in full. To get real facts and the whole picture. This was a nightmare unskilled pilot and error-riddled ride.

It’s really mystifying why after so many mistakes he left her in control in probably the most dangerous air space in the country. I don’t know if the rank thing makes a difference…is it more awkward to do that to someone that outranks you? There were lots of things that went wrong that day but his failure to take controls for the DCA cross over seems like one of them.
But no one should have ever allowed such an insanely dangerous aviation intersection.

Have you ever told a woman, "No."?

Of course, yes.

This is clearly misogynistic, narcissistic, instructor, who literally guided his helicopter into a plane.

Was he under the influence of anything? Sleep deprived? Which is just as bad as under an influence. Were either of them suicidal? Did he think of Lobach as more than his colleague? What was the third pilot doing if on that heli?

His wife said he slept well, did not take drugs, and only drank on special occasions. She said she didn't keep alcohol in the house and there's no way he was drunk. The third pilot was observing I believe.

Did they gather any evidence from the phone or belongings of the third pilot who was on the helicopter observing? Was he higher ranked? Trying to understand if Eaves was guiding her incorrectly, or she was not understanding, or he tried to make advances for all we know, or she was under stress from something, and if that third person observed could have intervened. We won't know now I guess.

That’s all in the NYTimes summary and nTSB report.
He had to verbally correct her poor decisions multiple times before they got to the DCA area. Then there he told her several times to correct her location and altitude.

Her responses each time were immature and unprofessional: I’m dizzy, the chair is in the way, oh I’m dyslexic at flying.

W T F.

Are you talking about Eaves?
Asking about O'Hara the chief crew who was on with Eaves and Lobach. Did, or did it seem O'Hara could have done "something"?? if he sensed friction between Eaves and Lobach (was this in the report and Times article too?)

What, specifically, do you think O’Hara (the crew chief) should have done?

Do you read? The question was were there any details in report or box to indicate O'Hara could have assisted in the BH to avoid what happened?

Of course I read. My point is, there is nothing O’Hara could have done. He was not a pilot.
So what exactly do you think could have been in the report?

Is that all you think? Have you ever been in or known a situation where someone outside the two parties (de)escalated whatever may have been taking place? as a poster said, we probably won't know now, but the question was was there any details in report or news write-up indicating O'Hara played any role or tried to help or not help, or give clues as to the situation inside on that BH flight.

They have the voice recorder. I assume that powers that be know if he spoke and if so what he said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read an article that said it was the fault of the air traffic control man who was doing two jobs and did not confirm things with the helicopter pilot. Why isn't anyone talking about that? Is it because he is a white male? He admitted it.

Good for you, now read the nTSB report recently released in full. To get real facts and the whole picture. This was a nightmare unskilled pilot and error-riddled ride.

It’s really mystifying why after so many mistakes he left her in control in probably the most dangerous air space in the country. I don’t know if the rank thing makes a difference…is it more awkward to do that to someone that outranks you? There were lots of things that went wrong that day but his failure to take controls for the DCA cross over seems like one of them.
But no one should have ever allowed such an insanely dangerous aviation intersection.

Have you ever told a woman, "No."?

Of course, yes.

This is clearly misogynistic, narcissistic, instructor, who literally guided his helicopter into a plane.

Was he under the influence of anything? Sleep deprived? Which is just as bad as under an influence. Were either of them suicidal? Did he think of Lobach as more than his colleague? What was the third pilot doing if on that heli?

His wife said he slept well, did not take drugs, and only drank on special occasions. She said she didn't keep alcohol in the house and there's no way he was drunk. The third pilot was observing I believe.

Did they gather any evidence from the phone or belongings of the third pilot who was on the helicopter observing? Was he higher ranked? Trying to understand if Eaves was guiding her incorrectly, or she was not understanding, or he tried to make advances for all we know, or she was under stress from something, and if that third person observed could have intervened. We won't know now I guess.

That’s all in the NYTimes summary and nTSB report.
He had to verbally correct her poor decisions multiple times before they got to the DCA area. Then there he told her several times to correct her location and altitude.

Her responses each time were immature and unprofessional: I’m dizzy, the chair is in the way, oh I’m dyslexic at flying.

W T F.

Are you talking about Eaves?
Asking about O'Hara the chief crew who was on with Eaves and Lobach. Did, or did it seem O'Hara could have done "something"?? if he sensed friction between Eaves and Lobach (was this in the report and Times article too?)

What, specifically, do you think O’Hara (the crew chief) should have done?

Do you read? The question was were there any details in report or box to indicate O'Hara could have assisted in the BH to avoid what happened?

Of course I read. My point is, there is nothing O’Hara could have done. He was not a pilot.
So what exactly do you think could have been in the report?

Is that all you think? Have you ever been in or known a situation where someone outside the two parties (de)escalated whatever may have been taking place? as a poster said, we probably won't know now, but the question was was there any details in report or news write-up indicating O'Hara played any role or tried to help or not help, or give clues as to the situation inside on that BH flight.

How would he have helped? Do you think that the two pilots were engaged in a physical altercation (I know one poster has tried to suggest that Eaves was actively raping the female pilot mid flight) and O’Hara was breaking it up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read an article that said it was the fault of the air traffic control man who was doing two jobs and did not confirm things with the helicopter pilot. Why isn't anyone talking about that? Is it because he is a white male? He admitted it.

Good for you, now read the nTSB report recently released in full. To get real facts and the whole picture. This was a nightmare unskilled pilot and error-riddled ride.

It’s really mystifying why after so many mistakes he left her in control in probably the most dangerous air space in the country. I don’t know if the rank thing makes a difference…is it more awkward to do that to someone that outranks you? There were lots of things that went wrong that day but his failure to take controls for the DCA cross over seems like one of them.
But no one should have ever allowed such an insanely dangerous aviation intersection.

Have you ever told a woman, "No."?

Of course, yes.

This is clearly misogynistic, narcissistic, instructor, who literally guided his helicopter into a plane.

Was he under the influence of anything? Sleep deprived? Which is just as bad as under an influence. Were either of them suicidal? Did he think of Lobach as more than his colleague? What was the third pilot doing if on that heli?

His wife said he slept well, did not take drugs, and only drank on special occasions. She said she didn't keep alcohol in the house and there's no way he was drunk. The third pilot was observing I believe.

Did they gather any evidence from the phone or belongings of the third pilot who was on the helicopter observing? Was he higher ranked? Trying to understand if Eaves was guiding her incorrectly, or she was not understanding, or he tried to make advances for all we know, or she was under stress from something, and if that third person observed could have intervened. We won't know now I guess.

That’s all in the NYTimes summary and nTSB report.
He had to verbally correct her poor decisions multiple times before they got to the DCA area. Then there he told her several times to correct her location and altitude.

Her responses each time were immature and unprofessional: I’m dizzy, the chair is in the way, oh I’m dyslexic at flying.

W T F.

Are you talking about Eaves?
Asking about O'Hara the chief crew who was on with Eaves and Lobach. Did, or did it seem O'Hara could have done "something"?? if he sensed friction between Eaves and Lobach (was this in the report and Times article too?)

What, specifically, do you think O’Hara (the crew chief) should have done?

Do you read? The question was were there any details in report or box to indicate O'Hara could have assisted in the BH to avoid what happened?

Of course I read. My point is, there is nothing O’Hara could have done. He was not a pilot.
So what exactly do you think could have been in the report?

Is that all you think? Have you ever been in or known a situation where someone outside the two parties (de)escalated whatever may have been taking place? as a poster said, we probably won't know now, but the question was was there any details in report or news write-up indicating O'Hara played any role or tried to help or not help, or give clues as to the situation inside on that BH flight.

How would he have helped? Do you think that the two pilots were engaged in a physical altercation (I know one poster has tried to suggest that Eaves was actively raping the female pilot mid flight) and O’Hara was breaking it up?

You or if it's a different poster keep repeating the original poster of this question's question. How would he have, what could he have done?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read an article that said it was the fault of the air traffic control man who was doing two jobs and did not confirm things with the helicopter pilot. Why isn't anyone talking about that? Is it because he is a white male? He admitted it.

Good for you, now read the nTSB report recently released in full. To get real facts and the whole picture. This was a nightmare unskilled pilot and error-riddled ride.

It’s really mystifying why after so many mistakes he left her in control in probably the most dangerous air space in the country. I don’t know if the rank thing makes a difference…is it more awkward to do that to someone that outranks you? There were lots of things that went wrong that day but his failure to take controls for the DCA cross over seems like one of them.
But no one should have ever allowed such an insanely dangerous aviation intersection.

Have you ever told a woman, "No."?

Of course, yes.

This is clearly misogynistic, narcissistic, instructor, who literally guided his helicopter into a plane.

Was he under the influence of anything? Sleep deprived? Which is just as bad as under an influence. Were either of them suicidal? Did he think of Lobach as more than his colleague? What was the third pilot doing if on that heli?

His wife said he slept well, did not take drugs, and only drank on special occasions. She said she didn't keep alcohol in the house and there's no way he was drunk. The third pilot was observing I believe.

Did they gather any evidence from the phone or belongings of the third pilot who was on the helicopter observing? Was he higher ranked? Trying to understand if Eaves was guiding her incorrectly, or she was not understanding, or he tried to make advances for all we know, or she was under stress from something, and if that third person observed could have intervened. We won't know now I guess.

That’s all in the NYTimes summary and nTSB report.
He had to verbally correct her poor decisions multiple times before they got to the DCA area. Then there he told her several times to correct her location and altitude.

Her responses each time were immature and unprofessional: I’m dizzy, the chair is in the way, oh I’m dyslexic at flying.

W T F.

Are you talking about Eaves?
Asking about O'Hara the chief crew who was on with Eaves and Lobach. Did, or did it seem O'Hara could have done "something"?? if he sensed friction between Eaves and Lobach (was this in the report and Times article too?)

What, specifically, do you think O’Hara (the crew chief) should have done?

Do you read? The question was were there any details in report or box to indicate O'Hara could have assisted in the BH to avoid what happened?

Of course I read. My point is, there is nothing O’Hara could have done. He was not a pilot.
So what exactly do you think could have been in the report?

Is that all you think? Have you ever been in or known a situation where someone outside the two parties (de)escalated whatever may have been taking place? as a poster said, we probably won't know now, but the question was was there any details in report or news write-up indicating O'Hara played any role or tried to help or not help, or give clues as to the situation inside on that BH flight.

How would he have helped? Do you think that the two pilots were engaged in a physical altercation (I know one poster has tried to suggest that Eaves was actively raping the female pilot mid flight) and O’Hara was breaking it up?

You or if it's a different poster keep repeating the original poster of this question's question. How would he have, what could he have done?

Well, you or if it’s a different poster jeep suggesting that there was something O’Hara could have/should have done, but haven’t explained exactly what. I can’t think of anything that was a possibility—but apparently you or if it’s a different poster have something in mind. So please, share.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s pretty clear that this entire “investigation” has been structured in such a way to put all the blame on the female pilot.

Not on the two men flying the more maneuverable jet.

Not on the man sitting next to Lobach, either.



They’re trying to put the blame on her.




So predictable.

The jet cannot move out of the way easily. The helicopter can. What are you missing? There is zero to suggest that the airline guys did anything at all wrong. The blame seems to be on her to a major degree. Just the way it is.

The jet was also exactly where ATC told it to be and was following procedure. Neither is true of the Helo. But I agree the Helo instructor has equal if not more responsibility as the more experienced pilot.

So? If I’m driving down the road and you pull out 10 feet in front of me, I’m still expected to be able to stop or avoid you. I can’t just crash into you and then throw my hands up and say it’s YOUR fault. I’ll still be charged with failure to avoid a collision.

The pilots didn’t even try to avoid the chopper.

Pretty sure it was more like I'm driving through a green light and someone comes barreling through the red light and hits me. I guess to stretch the analogy even more perhaps WTOP came on and said there was someone driving erratically on the crossroad so to be careful coming through that intersection?

ADSB was disabled on the 60.

Pilot was a btch who didn’t like being told what to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read an article that said it was the fault of the air traffic control man who was doing two jobs and did not confirm things with the helicopter pilot. Why isn't anyone talking about that? Is it because he is a white male? He admitted it.

Good for you, now read the nTSB report recently released in full. To get real facts and the whole picture. This was a nightmare unskilled pilot and error-riddled ride.

It’s really mystifying why after so many mistakes he left her in control in probably the most dangerous air space in the country. I don’t know if the rank thing makes a difference…is it more awkward to do that to someone that outranks you? There were lots of things that went wrong that day but his failure to take controls for the DCA cross over seems like one of them.
But no one should have ever allowed such an insanely dangerous aviation intersection.

Have you ever told a woman, "No."?

Of course, yes.

This is clearly misogynistic, narcissistic, instructor, who literally guided his helicopter into a plane.

Was he under the influence of anything? Sleep deprived? Which is just as bad as under an influence. Were either of them suicidal? Did he think of Lobach as more than his colleague? What was the third pilot doing if on that heli?

His wife said he slept well, did not take drugs, and only drank on special occasions. She said she didn't keep alcohol in the house and there's no way he was drunk. The third pilot was observing I believe.

Did they gather any evidence from the phone or belongings of the third pilot who was on the helicopter observing? Was he higher ranked? Trying to understand if Eaves was guiding her incorrectly, or she was not understanding, or he tried to make advances for all we know, or she was under stress from something, and if that third person observed could have intervened. We won't know now I guess.

That’s all in the NYTimes summary and nTSB report.
He had to verbally correct her poor decisions multiple times before they got to the DCA area. Then there he told her several times to correct her location and altitude.

Her responses each time were immature and unprofessional: I’m dizzy, the chair is in the way, oh I’m dyslexic at flying.

W T F.

Are you talking about Eaves?
Asking about O'Hara the chief crew who was on with Eaves and Lobach. Did, or did it seem O'Hara could have done "something"?? if he sensed friction between Eaves and Lobach (was this in the report and Times article too?)

What, specifically, do you think O’Hara (the crew chief) should have done?

Do you read? The question was were there any details in report or box to indicate O'Hara could have assisted in the BH to avoid what happened?

Of course I read. My point is, there is nothing O’Hara could have done. He was not a pilot.
So what exactly do you think could have been in the report?

Is that all you think? Have you ever been in or known a situation where someone outside the two parties (de)escalated whatever may have been taking place? as a poster said, we probably won't know now, but the question was was there any details in report or news write-up indicating O'Hara played any role or tried to help or not help, or give clues as to the situation inside on that BH flight.

The news article someone linked to suggests there was nothing really happening in the cockpit that required deescalating? Lobach and Eaves seemed to have a collegial tone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read an article that said it was the fault of the air traffic control man who was doing two jobs and did not confirm things with the helicopter pilot. Why isn't anyone talking about that? Is it because he is a white male? He admitted it.

Good for you, now read the nTSB report recently released in full. To get real facts and the whole picture. This was a nightmare unskilled pilot and error-riddled ride.

It’s really mystifying why after so many mistakes he left her in control in probably the most dangerous air space in the country. I don’t know if the rank thing makes a difference…is it more awkward to do that to someone that outranks you? There were lots of things that went wrong that day but his failure to take controls for the DCA cross over seems like one of them.
But no one should have ever allowed such an insanely dangerous aviation intersection.

Have you ever told a woman, "No."?

Of course, yes.

This is clearly misogynistic, narcissistic, instructor, who literally guided his helicopter into a plane.

Was he under the influence of anything? Sleep deprived? Which is just as bad as under an influence. Were either of them suicidal? Did he think of Lobach as more than his colleague? What was the third pilot doing if on that heli?

His wife said he slept well, did not take drugs, and only drank on special occasions. She said she didn't keep alcohol in the house and there's no way he was drunk. The third pilot was observing I believe.

Did they gather any evidence from the phone or belongings of the third pilot who was on the helicopter observing? Was he higher ranked? Trying to understand if Eaves was guiding her incorrectly, or she was not understanding, or he tried to make advances for all we know, or she was under stress from something, and if that third person observed could have intervened. We won't know now I guess.

That’s all in the NYTimes summary and nTSB report.
He had to verbally correct her poor decisions multiple times before they got to the DCA area. Then there he told her several times to correct her location and altitude.

Her responses each time were immature and unprofessional: I’m dizzy, the chair is in the way, oh I’m dyslexic at flying.

W T F.

Are you talking about Eaves?
Asking about O'Hara the chief crew who was on with Eaves and Lobach. Did, or did it seem O'Hara could have done "something"?? if he sensed friction between Eaves and Lobach (was this in the report and Times article too?)

What, specifically, do you think O’Hara (the crew chief) should have done?

Do you read? The question was were there any details in report or box to indicate O'Hara could have assisted in the BH to avoid what happened?

Of course I read. My point is, there is nothing O’Hara could have done. He was not a pilot.
So what exactly do you think could have been in the report?

Is that all you think? Have you ever been in or known a situation where someone outside the two parties (de)escalated whatever may have been taking place? as a poster said, we probably won't know now, but the question was was there any details in report or news write-up indicating O'Hara played any role or tried to help or not help, or give clues as to the situation inside on that BH flight.

The news article someone linked to suggests there was nothing really happening in the cockpit that required deescalating? Lobach and Eaves seemed to have a collegial tone.

He screwed up by not taking control immediately after she ignored his request the first time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s pretty clear that this entire “investigation” has been structured in such a way to put all the blame on the female pilot.

Not on the two men flying the more maneuverable jet.

Not on the man sitting next to Lobach, either.



They’re trying to put the blame on her.




So predictable.

The jet cannot move out of the way easily. The helicopter can. What are you missing? There is zero to suggest that the airline guys did anything at all wrong. The blame seems to be on her to a major degree. Just the way it is.

The jet was also exactly where ATC told it to be and was following procedure. Neither is true of the Helo. But I agree the Helo instructor has equal if not more responsibility as the more experienced pilot.

So? If I’m driving down the road and you pull out 10 feet in front of me, I’m still expected to be able to stop or avoid you. I can’t just crash into you and then throw my hands up and say it’s YOUR fault. I’ll still be charged with failure to avoid a collision.

The pilots didn’t even try to avoid the chopper.

Pretty sure it was more like I'm driving through a green light and someone comes barreling through the red light and hits me. I guess to stretch the analogy even more perhaps WTOP came on and said there was someone driving erratically on the crossroad so to be careful coming through that intersection?

ADSB was disabled on the 60.

Pilot was a btch who didn’t like being told what to do.

Oh goodie, the incels have arrived!

Ignoring that this is a completely inappropriate way to talk about a woman, you're flat out wrong? She clearly had no idea what to do lol. It's not that she knew and just didn't like being corrected.

She was a student. He should've grabbed the controls from her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s pretty clear that this entire “investigation” has been structured in such a way to put all the blame on the female pilot.

Not on the two men flying the more maneuverable jet.

Not on the man sitting next to Lobach, either.

They’re trying to put the blame on her.

So predictable.

The jet cannot move out of the way easily. The helicopter can. What are you missing? There is zero to suggest that the airline guys did anything at all wrong. The blame seems to be on her to a major degree. Just the way it is.

The jet was also exactly where ATC told it to be and was following procedure. Neither is true of the Helo. But I agree the Helo instructor has equal if not more responsibility as the more experienced pilot.

So? If I’m driving down the road and you pull out 10 feet in front of me, I’m still expected to be able to stop or avoid you. I can’t just crash into you and then throw my hands up and say it’s YOUR fault. I’ll still be charged with failure to avoid a collision.

The pilots didn’t even try to avoid the chopper.

Pretty sure it was more like I'm driving through a green light and someone comes barreling through the red light and hits me. I guess to stretch the analogy even more perhaps WTOP came on and said there was someone driving erratically on the crossroad so to be careful coming through that intersection?

ADSB was disabled on the 60.

Pilot was a btch who didn’t like being told what to do.

Oh goodie, the incels have arrived!

Ignoring that this is a completely inappropriate way to talk about a woman, you're flat out wrong? She clearly had no idea what to do lol. It's not that she knew and just didn't like being corrected.

She was a student. He should've grabbed the controls from her.

So, can they rule out suicide attempt for him? Why didn't he take control if she wasn't doing what she was supposed to? She wanted him to, but he didn't? Both knew it was DC near DCA skies. Forgot what type of weather conditions they were flying in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s pretty clear that this entire “investigation” has been structured in such a way to put all the blame on the female pilot.

Not on the two men flying the more maneuverable jet.

Not on the man sitting next to Lobach, either.



They’re trying to put the blame on her.




So predictable.

The jet cannot move out of the way easily. The helicopter can. What are you missing? There is zero to suggest that the airline guys did anything at all wrong. The blame seems to be on her to a major degree. Just the way it is.

The jet was also exactly where ATC told it to be and was following procedure. Neither is true of the Helo. But I agree the Helo instructor has equal if not more responsibility as the more experienced pilot.

So? If I’m driving down the road and you pull out 10 feet in front of me, I’m still expected to be able to stop or avoid you. I can’t just crash into you and then throw my hands up and say it’s YOUR fault. I’ll still be charged with failure to avoid a collision.

The pilots didn’t even try to avoid the chopper.

Pretty sure it was more like I'm driving through a green light and someone comes barreling through the red light and hits me. I guess to stretch the analogy even more perhaps WTOP came on and said there was someone driving erratically on the crossroad so to be careful coming through that intersection?

ADSB was disabled on the 60.

Pilot was a btch who didn’t like being told what to do.

Oh goodie, the incels have arrived!

Ignoring that this is a completely inappropriate way to talk about a woman, you're flat out wrong? She clearly had no idea what to do lol. It's not that she knew and just didn't like being corrected.

She was a student. He should've grabbed the controls from her.

Why does everyone continue to say she was a student? She was taking her annual night evaluation that all pilots do each year? She had been a pilot for several years.

[Anonymous]

Ultimately, this was a systemic failure - with air traffic control, with norms and procedures. People are fixating about a 100 feet. A 100 feet is nothing in a busy air traffic corridor. Imagine landing at Reagan and seeing a helicopter 100 feet away - that was deemed acceptable by air traffic control. These aircraft should never have been that close to begin with. This is an Air Traffic Control dereliction, combined with the awful normalization of some very risky flying. Runway 33 at DCA is used often enough that this shouldn't have been an issue when people are professional. It was an accident waiting to happen. The cowboy routes used by the military shouldn't have been allowed to begin with. But it is ATC not being on top of aircraft in an incredibly busy landing and takeoff space that is the biggest problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read an article that said it was the fault of the air traffic control man who was doing two jobs and did not confirm things with the helicopter pilot. Why isn't anyone talking about that? Is it because he is a white male? He admitted it.

Good for you, now read the nTSB report recently released in full. To get real facts and the whole picture. This was a nightmare unskilled pilot and error-riddled ride.

It’s really mystifying why after so many mistakes he left her in control in probably the most dangerous air space in the country. I don’t know if the rank thing makes a difference…is it more awkward to do that to someone that outranks you? There were lots of things that went wrong that day but his failure to take controls for the DCA cross over seems like one of them.
But no one should have ever allowed such an insanely dangerous aviation intersection.

Have you ever told a woman, "No."?

Of course, yes.

This is clearly misogynistic, narcissistic, instructor, who literally guided his helicopter into a plane.

Was he under the influence of anything? Sleep deprived? Which is just as bad as under an influence. Were either of them suicidal? Did he think of Lobach as more than his colleague? What was the third pilot doing if on that heli?

I think you’re underestimating the effects of being a narcissist.

I mean...he was almost assuredly not a "nice guy" in the sense he felt okay cheating on his wife and lying to both women about their future. But I don't think he guided the helicopter into the plane, no.

He clearly did. He let her fly the wrong height. He didn’t correct her when she was in the wrong path.

Our traffic control messages didn’t make it through and he didn’t instructor on what to do.

He was the guide and they hit a plane.

He guided her into the plane. She just followed instructions, which is what you do when you’re in the military no matter how stupid they are.

Did you read it? He told her to “come down” and also to move left. Both of which would have saved their lives had she actually done them.

She said okay and was following the order. But he didn't hear "go behind" and he wasn't smart enough to tell her to go behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ultimately, this was a systemic failure - with air traffic control, with norms and procedures. People are fixating about a 100 feet. A 100 feet is nothing in a busy air traffic corridor. Imagine landing at Reagan and seeing a helicopter 100 feet away - that was deemed acceptable by air traffic control. These aircraft should never have been that close to begin with. This is an Air Traffic Control dereliction, combined with the awful normalization of some very risky flying. Runway 33 at DCA is used often enough that this shouldn't have been an issue when people are professional. It was an accident waiting to happen. The cowboy routes used by the military shouldn't have been allowed to begin with. But it is ATC not being on top of aircraft in an incredibly busy landing and takeoff space that is the biggest problem.

All failures in complex systems are systemic. Complex systems almost always operate in a failed state, relying on multiple redundancies for safety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ultimately, this was a systemic failure - with air traffic control, with norms and procedures. People are fixating about a 100 feet. A 100 feet is nothing in a busy air traffic corridor. Imagine landing at Reagan and seeing a helicopter 100 feet away - that was deemed acceptable by air traffic control. These aircraft should never have been that close to begin with. This is an Air Traffic Control dereliction, combined with the awful normalization of some very risky flying. Runway 33 at DCA is used often enough that this shouldn't have been an issue when people are professional. It was an accident waiting to happen. The cowboy routes used by the military shouldn't have been allowed to begin with. But it is ATC not being on top of aircraft in an incredibly busy landing and takeoff space that is the biggest problem.

All failures in complex systems are systemic. Complex systems almost always operate in a failed state, relying on multiple redundancies for safety.

They require less than 7 systemic errors to avoid a disaster. This had more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ultimately, this was a systemic failure - with air traffic control, with norms and procedures. People are fixating about a 100 feet. A 100 feet is nothing in a busy air traffic corridor. Imagine landing at Reagan and seeing a helicopter 100 feet away - that was deemed acceptable by air traffic control. These aircraft should never have been that close to begin with. This is an Air Traffic Control dereliction, combined with the awful normalization of some very risky flying. Runway 33 at DCA is used often enough that this shouldn't have been an issue when people are professional. It was an accident waiting to happen. The cowboy routes used by the military shouldn't have been allowed to begin with. But it is ATC not being on top of aircraft in an incredibly busy landing and takeoff space that is the biggest problem.

All failures in complex systems are systemic. Complex systems almost always operate in a failed state, relying on multiple redundancies for safety.

They require less than 7 systemic errors to avoid a disaster. This had more.

https://how.complexsystems.fail/