US has no good options in Ukraine

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Last I checked my MC and VISA cards still worked and I could get cash at the ATM. All the stores are still open and I'm not worried that one of my "conscripted" relatives in another country and might be dead. I have plenty of food in the house and can protest downtown in DC anytime I want with no prison time. So I'd say the average Russian is hurting a lot more. I am an average American and COVID hurt me a lot worse than this.

Average Russian doesn't have a Master Card. He can't be hurting bcs he of something he never missed in the first place.

Well, you could be right, but many MC and UMC Russians are now leaving the country. Maybe you saw the article in the WaPo about this. They are getting on trains to Helsinki (and they are going to add more trains because the demand is so great). This is the creative class. This is the class that creates $$ that pays for a military. I also read an article in the NYT about scientists there. Apparently 8,000 of them signed a letter calling it an "invasion". Uh oh. But guess what? They have not been arrested. The government took their letter off the internet and let them be (so far). Imagine if that sector of the economy leaves as well. Russians will really be living off that lard and butter out in the hinterlands and so how will they feel about occupying a territory that they are forced to rebuild? Maybe they'd rather have internet and an I phone and more than some lard. ?? Maybe they would rather improve their own area?

Russia purges its creative and intellectual class every 30 years or so. That’s why it implodes every 50 years, it keeps the low intellect sycophants who can keep it going for a couple more decades before running the country to the ditch and the cycle begins anew.

[Anonymous]

More desperate threats from russia
Russia's space program threatens to leave astronaut aboard ISS
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10608023/Video-posted-Russias-space-program-threatens-leave-astronaut-55-aboard-space-station.html

[Anonymous]

The sanctions will have a brutal impact on the middle class and the poor. With the ruble crashing and the country defaulting, any little saving they may have had is gone, the price of everything will increase drastically. There are already limits on how much food can be purchased at supermarkets, soon shelves will become barer.

The sad thing is that even if the sanctions were to be lifted tomorrow, the damage is already done. No investor will lend to Russia and no foreign business will step foot in it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
At this point, sanctions are hurting us more, than the average Russian.


Last I checked my MC and VISA cards still worked and I could get cash at the ATM. All the stores are still open and I'm not worried that one of my "conscripted" relatives in another country and might be dead. I have plenty of food in the house and can protest downtown in DC anytime I want with no prison time. So I'd say the average Russian is hurting a lot more. I am an average American and COVID hurt me a lot worse than this.

I just can't. It is like talking to dumb and dumber here. For all the boasting in other threads that you are all so high IQ and so smart, you are all so short-sighted, it is hard to imagine how people who claim to be so smart on dcum, are in actuality beyond stupid.
Yay, you Master Card works, that is all that matters in your world!


Huh? The poster did not say that was all that mattered. Just pointed out the financial system is working.

No, she didn't. She flippantly answered as a rich entitled something who only cares about her own well-being and her own Master card. She has no capacity to think about anyone else's welfare but her own. An infliction common on dcum.
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[Post New]03/13/2022 15:34 Subject: Re:US has no good options in Ukraine [Up]
Anonymous



Anonymous wrote:

No, she didn't. She flippantly answered as a rich entitled something who only cares about her own well-being and her own Master card. She has no capacity to think about anyone else's welfare but her own. An infliction common on dcum.


Try re reading it along with the post to which it was in response.

I'm am the PP who is being called "rich entitled something". News flash: you don't have to be rich to get a Master card. I'm a teacher. I have never made even 90K a year and I'm over 60 years old. But I "have no capacity to think about anyone else's welfare but my own". I'll bet the person who called me this makes and has more money than I do and uses a Master card.

I understood your perfectly valid reply. You were responding to the ridiculous assertion by a troll that Americans have it worse than Russians. Their Ruble is now worth less than ten cents and their ATM and Mastercards no longer work. The troll then hysterically twisted your words. This is what they do.

[Anonymous]

If China gets involved, it will be WW3. The US will simply say, those trillions we supposedly owe you? Forgetaboutit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If China gets involved, it will be WW3. The US will simply say, those trillions we supposedly owe you? Forgetaboutit.

When did China ever get involved in such things? China did not even sanction Russia. China is the Empire that lives on, by not getting involved in something it does not serve it.
The U.S. on the other hand will get involved and then yes, WW3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

At this point, sanctions are hurting us more, than the average Russian.

Last I checked my MC and VISA cards still worked and I could get cash at the ATM. All the stores are still open and I'm not worried that one of my "conscripted" relatives in another country and might be dead. I have plenty of food in the house and can protest downtown in DC anytime I want with no prison time. So I'd say the average Russian is hurting a lot more. I am an average American and COVID hurt me a lot worse than this.

Average Russian doesn't have a Master Card. He can't be hurting bcs he of something he never missed in the first place.

?? Most Russians have bank accounts. Many of them cannot access those accounts right now.

Nor can they make online purchases except with whatever flaky Chinese Sberbank card Russia is desperately trying to roll out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If China gets involved, it will be WW3. The US will simply say, those trillions we supposedly owe you? Forgetaboutit.

China’s weakness is international policy in crisis situations. Response is very slow. Multiple groups of people need to make up their minds. Multiple people’s influences need to be considered. Consensus is hard to reach in such a huge country with such complex domestic affairs. It’s a very powerful country, that already owns large portions of Africa, but it has very little experience as a political broker on the world stage.

China will NOT engage in war or war by proxy.

It does not want to *support* Russia. China has no friends and no loyalty. It may end up *owning* Russia if sanctions push Russia into desperate measures to prevent financial implosion.

China does not want to confront the West. It depends on the West to enrich itself so it wants Western economies thrumming and buying its products.

There is also the delicate issue of Taiwan. It is trying to position Taiwan as different than Ukraine.

Sadly WWIII can happen if Putin provokes NATO badly enough. This is China’s worst nightmare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Russian troops are deliberately shooting and killing civilians - women, children as well as journalists.

[Anonymous]

She is truly an embarrassment.

What she said:

What was transcribed in the official WH transcript:

"So I will say what I know we all say, and I will say over and over again: The United States stands firmly with the Ukrainian people [and] in defense of the NATO Alliance. (Applause.)"

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2022/03/12/remarks-by-vice-president-harris-at-the-dnc-winter-meeting/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If China gets involved, it will be WW3. The US will simply say, those trillions we supposedly owe you? Forgetaboutit.

When did China ever get involved in such things? China did not even sanction Russia. China is the Empire that lives on, by not getting involved in something it does not serve it.
The U.S. on the other hand will get involved and then yes, WW3.

Didn't China supply weapons to the North Koreans and/or the North Vietnamese?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Azov Battalion is real. Doesn’t mean Putin isn’t a crazy dictator, but it isn’t true that Ukraine has no neo Nazis.

Russia has them too.

Armed battalions with names and all?

Putin has private Nazi-run death squads. Look up Wagner PMC. It's led by Putin's friend Dmitri Utkin, a former Spetznaz officer and known neo-Nazi. Check out Utkin's tattoos - Nazi Reichsadler and SS insignia. He named his company "Wagner" after Hitler's favorite composer. Wagner is Russia's dirty work and private "plausible deniability" military operating in Syria, Central African Republic, Mali and many other hot spots. Wagner currently has hundreds of assassins in Ukraine trying to assassinate the Jewish president of Ukraine, who is the grandson of Holocaust survivors and who was popularly elected by the supposedly Nazi Ukrainians with solid 73% majority.

Zelensky is a grandson of a communist, a Red Army colonel.

Does that make his grandfather not Jewish? Does it change the fact that his grandfather’s father and brothers perished in the Holocaust? What’s your point?

Communists tend to be pointedly unreligious, which is exactly why many Jews fled from communist countries. Religion was forbidden in the USSR. The October Revolution predated WWII.

PP, I am not sure why you are making this point. Zelensky’s grandfather, who was Jewish, fought in World War II with the Soviet army and rose to the level of colonel. He survived - his three brothers and father were killed in the Holocaust. This is a very common WE2 story - Jewish men often joined the only available opposition to Nazis in some areas - The Red Army. Do you think it says something negative about Zelensky’s grandfather or Zelensky that he did that?

Yes, religion was forbidden in the Soviet Union. Yes, many Jews sought to leave Soviet countries. But, since Ukraine voted overwhelmingly in 1991 to leave the Soviet Union, religion has been an accepted part of Ukrainian life. Particularly since the Maidan, there is broad acceptance of all religions even Islam - among the people and between religious leaders. Ukrainians who elected Zelensky knew he was Jewish. Since Zelensky became president he has openly spoken about his family’s Jewish background and commemorated Ukraine’s victory over Naziism.

Ukraine, broadly speaking does not have a lot of neo-Nazis, but because of the war in the Donbas early groups like Azov battalion and Right Sector, received support because they were the early groups to use force to resist Russian efforts to keep control of Ukraine by manipulating Ukrainian politicians. Ukrainians, who were opposed to Russia, saw Right Sector and Azov as the only groups available to support. As the Ukrainian Army got more organized itself and created a Territorial Defense, it folded Azov into the command structure. At the time this was seen as a way to moderate neo-Nazi support and control and eventually weed neo-Nazis out. I think that’s been somewhat successful, and today’s Ukrainian army has no greater a Nazi problem than any other country in Europe. And certainly not such a Nazi problem that justifies a Russian invasion.

Just bumping your excellent explanation, PP. Thank you for taking the time to inform any posters that were unconvinced there are trolls here and on other threads, who wish to derail the conversation and fracture US unity during this conflict.

Also a reminder that you can use the report button any time you suspect that posts are created with the specific goal of spreading lies to confuse readers and deflect blame on the wrong people.

While technically correct, I'm not quite sure why you're using this particular thread of conversation to make that point. It's completely normal for politicians to overstate their sense belonging to certain groups or causes if they think it will draw in international support. In this case, the Ukrainian political establishment is motivated to disassociate themselves with the perception of Nazism, wants to associate itself with oppressed group, and would probably love to have Israel more strongly supportive of its cause. Yes, PP notes that the Zelensky's story is completely reconcilable, but PP's PP was also completely correct in noting that there's an objective reason to question whether he's "very" Jewish or that the Russian army would be targeting him on religious grounds.

Also, please spare the melodrama. Just because we're supposed to side with a leader doesn't mean that there's a societal expectation to consider them a sincere or likeable leader.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She is truly an embarrassment.

What she said:

What was transcribed in the official WH transcript:

"So I will say what I know we all say, and I will say over and over again: The United States stands firmly with the Ukrainian people [and] in defense of the NATO Alliance. (Applause.)"

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2022/03/12/remarks-by-vice-president-harris-at-the-dnc-winter-meeting/

Lol. It’s Kamala. What do you expect?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If China gets involved, it will be WW3. The US will simply say, those trillions we supposedly owe you? Forgetaboutit.

When did China ever get involved in such things? China did not even sanction Russia. China is the Empire that lives on, by not getting involved in something it does not serve it.
The U.S. on the other hand will get involved and then yes, WW3.

Didn't China supply weapons to the North Koreans and/or the North Vietnamese?

Maybe, but that is the same involvement the U.S. is doing in China, it is not a proclamation of war or some significant action.

[Anonymous]

^^ I meant in Ukraine.