Wilson honors for all - how has it worked?

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The fact that PARCC scores at Deal and Hardy range from 1 to 5 shows that there are significant grade-level disparities among the students.


+1

How does the administrator address these data in the context of honors for all?


9 8th grade students at Hardy scored a 1.
22 8th grade students at Deal scored a 1.

You don't know anything else about these students, or even if they went to Wilson. Some may be very bright but ELLs, some maybe have significant learning or developmental disabilities which account for a low score.

But 31 students out of about 600 9th grade students are not going to ruin or hurt your child's experience in those same classes.



How will these 31 students be supported in a way they will be successful in an honors course with students who scored 5 on the PARCC?


That's a good specific question for the principal. It would depend on the student but Wilson has special educators who work with those with IEPs in or outside of the regular classroom and the same with students learning English.

But without knowing how many of these students would qualify for or need these supports, how many are capable but decided not to answer or try on the PARCC for whatever reasons, and how many are just not capable of performing the work.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:

Absolutely. Economist here from a few pages back.

Re: “science”: forty years ago, “studies” said that fat was terrible and carbs were good for you.
[i][u] Turned out that nutrition is very difficult to nail down (like education), and a bunch of corporate sugar interests were able to influence nutrition studies. If forty years ago you had used common sense and rejected those crappy sugar studies, you would have been better off.

Cars and medicine are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT scientific fields than education (and nutrition).* Be really really careful you’re using a high-quality study before you cite an education study.





* also, note that literally *hundreds of billions of dollars* have gone into funding for medical research, just in the past 5 years. Same with automotive research, development, and testing. Nutrition and education spend way way way less on research.


How great was that pyramid with the huge carb section down the bottom? Make sure to eat all that yummy bread and pasta every day! Sigh...
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The fact that PARCC scores at Deal and Hardy range from 1 to 5 shows that there are significant grade-level disparities among the students.


+1

How does the administrator address these data in the context of honors for all?


9 8th grade students at Hardy scored a 1.
22 8th grade students at Deal scored a 1.

You don't know anything else about these students, or even if they went to Wilson. Some may be very bright but ELLs, some maybe have significant learning or developmental disabilities which account for a low score.

But 31 students out of about 600 9th grade students are not going to ruin or hurt your child's experience in those same classes.



For the most recent PARCC (2017-2018), 18% of Wilson High School students scored a 1 on the ELA portion. In a school with 1,829 students that translates to 329 students.

Data: http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/scorecard/Woodrow+Wilson+High+School
http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/scorecard/Woodrow+Wilson+High+School
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The fact that PARCC scores at Deal and Hardy range from 1 to 5 shows that there are significant grade-level disparities among the students.


+1

How does the administrator address these data in the context of honors for all?


9 8th grade students at Hardy scored a 1.
22 8th grade students at Deal scored a 1.

You don't know anything else about these students, or even if they went to Wilson. Some may be very bright but ELLs, some maybe have significant learning or developmental disabilities which account for a low score.

But 31 students out of about 600 9th grade students are not going to ruin or hurt your child's experience in those same classes.



For the most recent PARCC (2017-2018), 18% of Wilson High School students scored a 1 on the ELA portion. In a school with 1,829 students that translates to 329 students.

Data: http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/scorecard/Woodrow+Wilson+High+School
http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/scorecard/Woodrow+Wilson+High+School


Do HFA isn’t magically bringing everyone up to grade level?

What’s more, there is a meaningful difference between a 2 (below grade level) and a 4 (at grade level), even aside from the blatant gap between 1s and 5s.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The fact that PARCC scores at Deal and Hardy range from 1 to 5 shows that there are significant grade-level disparities among the students.


+1

How does the administrator address these data in the context of honors for all?


9 8th grade students at Hardy scored a 1.
22 8th grade students at Deal scored a 1.

You don't know anything else about these students, or even if they went to Wilson. Some may be very bright but ELLs, some maybe have significant learning or developmental disabilities which account for a low score.

But 31 students out of about 600 9th grade students are not going to ruin or hurt your child's experience in those same classes.



For the most recent PARCC (2017-2018), 18% of Wilson High School students scored a 1 on the ELA portion. In a school with 1,829 students that translates to 329 students.

Data: http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/scorecard/Woodrow+Wilson+High+School
http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/scorecard/Woodrow+Wilson+High+School


Do HFA isn’t magically bringing everyone up to grade level?

What’s more, there is a meaningful difference between a 2 (below grade level) and a 4 (at grade level), even aside from the blatant gap between 1s and 5s.


yes well all know this. Again, the purpose of this is purely political/optics to try and give traditionally URM and poorer folks a shot at being ready for AP type work. Because as everyone know the people in the advanced classes are overwhelmingly higher SES levels and since this DC and Ward 3 they also tend to be whiter as a result
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The fact that PARCC scores at Deal and Hardy range from 1 to 5 shows that there are significant grade-level disparities among the students.


+1

How does the administrator address these data in the context of honors for all?


9 8th grade students at Hardy scored a 1.
22 8th grade students at Deal scored a 1.

You don't know anything else about these students, or even if they went to Wilson. Some may be very bright but ELLs, some maybe have significant learning or developmental disabilities which account for a low score.

But 31 students out of about 600 9th grade students are not going to ruin or hurt your child's experience in those same classes.



For the most recent PARCC (2017-2018), 18% of Wilson High School students scored a 1 on the ELA portion. In a school with 1,829 students that translates to 329 students.

Data: http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/scorecard/Woodrow+Wilson+High+School
http://profiles.dcps.dc.gov/scorecard/Woodrow+Wilson+High+School


Those were 10th graders (not 9th) who did not have HFA when they were in 9th. The percentage of students with 1s in the 2019 PARCC will be more telling as they were the first class to experience this in 9th grade.

There is a big caveat, however. The number of at-risk students at Wilson is rapidly declining. That alone will reduce the number of students scoring 1s on PARCC.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Sorry that happened to your kid's friend - that is shitty. As a thought experiment, what if your kid's friend had been Asian or Hispanic. Would the driver had left? I think not. So is it accurate to label it "white privilege"? The problem is not that the driver would pick up your kid or his/her Asian friend but that the driver would not pickup a black child. That is the shitty thing we need to fix. Calling it "white privilege" is generally unhelpful, inaccurate, and alienates people of goodwill.


As a white person, there are literally a thousand daily worries that I don't have to deal with because of my race. I also don't have to worry that my young son will be perceived by members of the majority culture as, on average 4 years older than he is. I also don't have to worry that my preschooler is three times as likely to be suspended as his classmates for the exact same discipline issues (https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/crdc-discipline-snapshot.pdf). If my kid was convicted of a crime, I don't have to worry that he would be 18 times as likely as a white kid to be sentenced as an adult (http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/psp-a0035663.pdf). When I'm shopping for a home, I don't have to worry about being routinely guided to sub-prime loans regardless of my income (http://www.demos.org/blog/new-hud-report-shows-continued-discrimination-against-people-color). Unlike black people, I'm not 30% more likely to be pulled over by police (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/09/you-really-can-get-pulled-over-for-driving-while-black-federal-statistics-show/). I also don't have to worry about being killed while crossing the street at a crosswalk because white drivers simply refuse to stop for people of my race (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2015/10/26/walking-while-black-can-be-deadly-too-study-finds/). Denying that life is easier for white people (and to a lesser extent for Asians and Latinos) is unhelpful, inaccurate, and alienates people of goodwill.

The need that I sometimes feel to try to explain away statistics like those above or to try to explain away experiences like the Uber experience you commented on is what I mean when I say "white fragility." I can't look into your heart and know what you are thinking, but I can see that discomfort and defensiveness in myself (and, as a man, similar defensiveness that I feel in the face of some MeToo discussions) and name it, and I think that's useful. I'm not aware of white fragility being used in any of the communications about HFA at Wilson (or anywhere in this discussion, until you combed the consultant's Web site to find that term), so I'm not sure how it's being used to shut down discussion.


You did not answer my question. In fact, you seem to have gone way out your way not to answer it. And your emotional need to attach an inflammatory name ("white fragility") to the banal notion that people get defensive does not speak well of you.

I asked you before to "please be more careful with your accusations". You clearly ignored that reasonable request. First, I did not "to try to explain away experiences like the Uber experience" which I specifically described as a "shitty" thing to happen to a kid. I simply tried to dig deeper into the issue using a "thought experiment" so that we could properly characterize it. Somehow this went over your head. Second, you accused me of "denying that life is easier for white people" which I never did. In fact, I explicitly stated that "I don't deny racism or its history." Of course life is easier when, for example, you are discriminated against less often as in the case with white people. Duh!

And finally, the principal of Wilson HS herself used the term "white fragility" as part of her discussion of implementing HFA. She used and embraced the term, not me.
Anonymous
first it was racism/that's racist now it's white fragility

terms used by people who can't win arguments and use made up words to shut down debate

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Sorry that happened to your kid's friend - that is shitty. As a thought experiment, what if your kid's friend had been Asian or Hispanic. Would the driver had left? I think not. So is it accurate to label it "white privilege"? The problem is not that the driver would pick up your kid or his/her Asian friend but that the driver would not pickup a black child. That is the shitty thing we need to fix. Calling it "white privilege" is generally unhelpful, inaccurate, and alienates people of goodwill.


As a white person, there are literally a thousand daily worries that I don't have to deal with because of my race. I also don't have to worry that my young son will be perceived by members of the majority culture as, on average 4 years older than he is. I also don't have to worry that my preschooler is three times as likely to be suspended as his classmates for the exact same discipline issues (https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/crdc-discipline-snapshot.pdf). If my kid was convicted of a crime, I don't have to worry that he would be 18 times as likely as a white kid to be sentenced as an adult (http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/psp-a0035663.pdf). When I'm shopping for a home, I don't have to worry about being routinely guided to sub-prime loans regardless of my income (http://www.demos.org/blog/new-hud-report-shows-continued-discrimination-against-people-color). Unlike black people, I'm not 30% more likely to be pulled over by police (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/09/you-really-can-get-pulled-over-for-driving-while-black-federal-statistics-show/). I also don't have to worry about being killed while crossing the street at a crosswalk because white drivers simply refuse to stop for people of my race (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2015/10/26/walking-while-black-can-be-deadly-too-study-finds/). Denying that life is easier for white people (and to a lesser extent for Asians and Latinos) is unhelpful, inaccurate, and alienates people of goodwill.

The need that I sometimes feel to try to explain away statistics like those above or to try to explain away experiences like the Uber experience you commented on is what I mean when I say "white fragility." I can't look into your heart and know what you are thinking, but I can see that discomfort and defensiveness in myself (and, as a man, similar defensiveness that I feel in the face of some MeToo discussions) and name it, and I think that's useful. I'm not aware of white fragility being used in any of the communications about HFA at Wilson (or anywhere in this discussion, until you combed the consultant's Web site to find that term), so I'm not sure how it's being used to shut down discussion.


You did not answer my question. In fact, you seem to have gone way out your way not to answer it. And your emotional need to attach an inflammatory name ("white fragility") to the banal notion that people get defensive does not speak well of you.

I asked you before to "please be more careful with your accusations". You clearly ignored that reasonable request. First, I did not "to try to explain away experiences like the Uber experience" which I specifically described as a "shitty" thing to happen to a kid. I simply tried to dig deeper into the issue using a "thought experiment" so that we could properly characterize it. Somehow this went over your head. Second, you accused me of "denying that life is easier for white people" which I never did. In fact, I explicitly stated that "I don't deny racism or its history." Of course life is easier when, for example, you are discriminated against less often as in the case with white people. Duh!

And finally, the principal of Wilson HS herself used the term "white fragility" as part of her discussion of implementing HFA. She used and embraced the term, not me.


Calm down --- no one is accusing you of anything. If you take a breath an re-read my post, you will see that I was talking about MY experience and saying that I can't look into your heart. You may want to take a second to figure out why this topic is so upsetting to you and why me talking about my feelings sounds like I am accusing you of something.

Sorry if I missed a question in your post. Was it the question about white privilege? That's kinda what the first paragraph of my post was about. You realize that it's easier to be white in our culture and, to a lesser extent Asian, and to a much lesser extent Latino. You object to calling that white privilege for some reason, but you don't deny the reality. That's fine, but I wonder why you are so sensitive about the semantics?

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:first it was racism/that's racist now it's white fragility

terms used by people who can't win arguments and use made up words to shut down debate



So you believe that racism is just a made up word made up to shut down debate? How breathtakingly ignorant of you. Apparently you have never heard of slavery, 10,000 people killed by lynching, sundown towns, the dozens of massacres of blacks during reconstruction, redlining, housing discrimination, employment discrimination, Jim Crow, poll tests, grandfather clauses, ongoing wage, school discipline, policing and employment discrimination as well as all of the other facets of institutionalized racism I linked to above.

Congrats. You win the prize for stupidest post ever on DCUM.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Sorry that happened to your kid's friend - that is shitty. As a thought experiment, what if your kid's friend had been Asian or Hispanic. Would the driver had left? I think not. So is it accurate to label it "white privilege"? The problem is not that the driver would pick up your kid or his/her Asian friend but that the driver would not pickup a black child. That is the shitty thing we need to fix. Calling it "white privilege" is generally unhelpful, inaccurate, and alienates people of goodwill.


As a white person, there are literally a thousand daily worries that I don't have to deal with because of my race. I also don't have to worry that my young son will be perceived by members of the majority culture as, on average 4 years older than he is. I also don't have to worry that my preschooler is three times as likely to be suspended as his classmates for the exact same discipline issues (https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/crdc-discipline-snapshot.pdf). If my kid was convicted of a crime, I don't have to worry that he would be 18 times as likely as a white kid to be sentenced as an adult (http://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/psp-a0035663.pdf). When I'm shopping for a home, I don't have to worry about being routinely guided to sub-prime loans regardless of my income (http://www.demos.org/blog/new-hud-report-shows-continued-discrimination-against-people-color). Unlike black people, I'm not 30% more likely to be pulled over by police (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/09/you-really-can-get-pulled-over-for-driving-while-black-federal-statistics-show/). I also don't have to worry about being killed while crossing the street at a crosswalk because white drivers simply refuse to stop for people of my race (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2015/10/26/walking-while-black-can-be-deadly-too-study-finds/). Denying that life is easier for white people (and to a lesser extent for Asians and Latinos) is unhelpful, inaccurate, and alienates people of goodwill.

The need that I sometimes feel to try to explain away statistics like those above or to try to explain away experiences like the Uber experience you commented on is what I mean when I say "white fragility." I can't look into your heart and know what you are thinking, but I can see that discomfort and defensiveness in myself (and, as a man, similar defensiveness that I feel in the face of some MeToo discussions) and name it, and I think that's useful. I'm not aware of white fragility being used in any of the communications about HFA at Wilson (or anywhere in this discussion, until you combed the consultant's Web site to find that term), so I'm not sure how it's being used to shut down discussion.


You did not answer my question. In fact, you seem to have gone way out your way not to answer it. And your emotional need to attach an inflammatory name ("white fragility") to the banal notion that people get defensive does not speak well of you.

I asked you before to "please be more careful with your accusations". You clearly ignored that reasonable request. First, I did not "to try to explain away experiences like the Uber experience" which I specifically described as a "shitty" thing to happen to a kid. I simply tried to dig deeper into the issue using a "thought experiment" so that we could properly characterize it. Somehow this went over your head. Second, you accused me of "denying that life is easier for white people" which I never did. In fact, I explicitly stated that "I don't deny racism or its history." Of course life is easier when, for example, you are discriminated against less often as in the case with white people. Duh!

And finally, the principal of Wilson HS herself used the term "white fragility" as part of her discussion of implementing HFA. She used and embraced the term, not me.


Calm down --- no one is accusing you of anything. If you take a breath an re-read my post, you will see that I was talking about MY experience and saying that I can't look into your heart. You may want to take a second to figure out why this topic is so upsetting to you and why me talking about my feelings sounds like I am accusing you of something.

Sorry if I missed a question in your post. Was it the question about white privilege? That's kinda what the first paragraph of my post was about. You realize that it's easier to be white in our culture and, to a lesser extent Asian, and to a much lesser extent Latino. You object to calling that white privilege for some reason, but you don't deny the reality. That's fine, but I wonder why you are so sensitive about the semantics?



DP: PP made a perfectly reasonable reply. Your telling her to “calm down” and “take a breath” — appropriately enough — is another rude approach to trying to diminish someone you are debating rather than responding to the substance that of what she said.

And what foes this have to do with HFA anyway?
Anonymous
One other note about "white privilege" for the poster above. PP proposed a "thought experiment" about Latinx and Asian folks, which is fine but kinda misses the point. There lots of experiences that Latinx people have that white Anglos don't (e.g. I've heard nasty comments when speaking Spanish with friends in "worldly" NW DC, but never when speaking German). In other parts of the country, Latinx parents live in fear of their US citizen kids being picked up by police and detained. What do these things have in common? They are problems that white people don't have. You can argue that blacks don't worry about deportation or that Latinos will be picked up by Uber, but the bottom line is the commonality of all of these problems is that they are not white people's problems. This is white privilege.

Interestingly, in my experience, if black people mention an actual incidence of racism that happened to them to a group of white people, in my experience, there are ALWAYS people who have to say "yes, that's a shitty experience you had, but..." "But it was an isolated incident" (despite mountains of evidence that it's an utterly commonplace incident). "But one bad apple cop doesn't represent all white people" (despite the horrible statistics about disparate rates of arrests, convictions and sentencing for whites and blacks for the same crimes). "But Latinos experience prejudice too" (as if that was somehow better?). But, but, but. That need to argue against, deny (or create "thought experiments" about) the complete ubiquity of unfortunate experiences that non whites have regularly that we don't --- that's white fragility.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
You did not answer my question. In fact, you seem to have gone way out your way not to answer it. And your emotional need to attach an inflammatory name ("white fragility") to the banal notion that people get defensive does not speak well of you.

I asked you before to "please be more careful with your accusations". You clearly ignored that reasonable request. First, I did not "to try to explain away experiences like the Uber experience" which I specifically described as a "shitty" thing to happen to a kid. I simply tried to dig deeper into the issue using a "thought experiment" so that we could properly characterize it. Somehow this went over your head. Second, you accused me of "denying that life is easier for white people" which I never did. In fact, I explicitly stated that "I don't deny racism or its history." Of course life is easier when, for example, you are discriminated against less often as in the case with white people. Duh!



DP: PP made a perfectly reasonable reply. Your telling her to “calm down” and “take a breath” — appropriately enough — is another rude approach to trying to diminish someone you are debating rather than responding to the substance that of what she said.

And what foes this have to do with HFA anyway?


The bolded above strikes you as perfectly reasonable? Really? It seems out of control rude and aggressive to me. Hence my sincere suggestion to calm down. Guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:first it was racism/that's racist now it's white fragility

terms used by people who can't win arguments and use made up words to shut down debate



So you believe that racism is just a made up word made up to shut down debate? How breathtakingly ignorant of you. Apparently you have never heard of slavery, 10,000 people killed by lynching, sundown towns, the dozens of massacres of blacks during reconstruction, redlining, housing discrimination, employment discrimination, Jim Crow, poll tests, grandfather clauses, ongoing wage, school discipline, policing and employment discrimination as well as all of the other facets of institutionalized racism I linked to above.

Congrats. You win the prize for stupidest post ever on DCUM.


congrats you play the victim card extremely well. Here's a tip instead of waiting for your reparations check try and make something of your life. It's 2019

my original point if someone uses racisim white privilege white fragility it is just a tactic to shut down debate and avoid having an actual logical conversation
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
You did not answer my question. In fact, you seem to have gone way out your way not to answer it. And your emotional need to attach an inflammatory name ("white fragility") to the banal notion that people get defensive does not speak well of you.

I asked you before to "please be more careful with your accusations". You clearly ignored that reasonable request. First, I did not "to try to explain away experiences like the Uber experience" which I specifically described as a "shitty" thing to happen to a kid. I simply tried to dig deeper into the issue using a "thought experiment" so that we could properly characterize it. Somehow this went over your head. Second, you accused me of "denying that life is easier for white people" which I never did. In fact, I explicitly stated that "I don't deny racism or its history." Of course life is easier when, for example, you are discriminated against less often as in the case with white people. Duh!



DP: PP made a perfectly reasonable reply. Your telling her to “calm down” and “take a breath” — appropriately enough — is another rude approach to trying to diminish someone you are debating rather than responding to the substance that of what she said.

And what foes this have to do with HFA anyway?


The bolded above strikes you as perfectly reasonable? Really? It seems out of control rude and aggressive to me. Hence my sincere suggestion to calm down. Guess we're going to have to agree to disagree.


You twice falsely accused me, and yeah I am a bit pissed about it. Let's recap:

In your original post you said: The fact that you deny it exists suggests to me that you haven't engaged in many honest conversations about race... How is that not an accusation? I responded by carefully refuting it and asking you to "please be more careful with your accusations."

In your next post, you stated: Denying that life is easier for white people (and to a lesser extent for Asians and Latinos) is unhelpful, inaccurate, and alienates people of goodwill. You copied the bolded text verbatim from my earlier post in some lame attempt at a gotcha. And what, now you are saying that denial accusation was not aimed at me? Yeah right.

I will not respond to any more of your posts.
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