Two spouses: a play

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

Some data for you OP

https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-myth-of-the-lazy-father

That’s Bs methodology. The work addict dad who avoids family responsibilities gets to count his 40-70 hours a week hiding out at the office, home office and iPhone as “household help?”

Yeah, we all know what that means. And what would happen if both parents behaved like that.

Right?
I mean, the fact that men spend more time at work and less time doing childcare is the exact issue.
It’s kind of upsetting that the author of this article doesn’t seem to get it.

If he's making more money for the family then it's time well spent. Making less money to have more time to make cookies for the old folks is a bad tradeoff and doesn't help the family.

Why is that a bad trade off?
As long as we have enough money for the things we need and a lot of the things we want, then why is it so awful for a man to bake cookies with his daughter instead of making more money?

If you want an underemployed man who has lots of free time to make dr appointments and cookies, then have at it. I'm sure those types of men are a dime a dozen but I wouldn't know because I wouldn't be interested. But very few well paying jobs offer lots of flexibility and free time for the nonsense schools push on parents.

If you read the linked article, you will see that these men are not a dime a dozen, and in fact they don’t exist at all. Underemployed men don’t tend to spend their time doing things for their families.

Since you seem to be part of the problem here, saying that you would never date a man who is “underemployed” and seem to think that men have no value to their families outside of paid work, I would just like to hear your reasoning.

If the guy won't help around the house then he better be making a lot of of money to pick up the slack and afford outsourcing. IF your husband doesn't make much money and also doesn't help, then you have a bad picker and should have aimed higher.

Exactly.

Let him be a deadweight tag along.

To be clear, the guy making loads of money is the deadweight? Or the underemployed husband who doesn't help?

They are both deadweights within the household. The former is too lazy and selfish to spend time knowing his family members or self-direct the money towards correct resources, and the latter is a selfish leech.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Keeping track of everything that needs to happen and making sure it does is real work. Actually doing it is also real work. Earning money to fund your life is real work. All these kinds of work contribute to your family’s smooth functioning. How you want to split it up and what you want to outsource is so individual. But IMO putting one person wholly in charge of the mental load at home works best.

Team approach and tag teaming wins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

Some data for you OP

https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-myth-of-the-lazy-father

That’s Bs methodology. The work addict dad who avoids family responsibilities gets to count his 40-70 hours a week hiding out at the office, home office and iPhone as “household help?”

Yeah, we all know what that means. And what would happen if both parents behaved like that.

Right?
I mean, the fact that men spend more time at work and less time doing childcare is the exact issue.
It’s kind of upsetting that the author of this article doesn’t seem to get it.

If he's making more money for the family then it's time well spent. Making less money to have more time to make cookies for the old folks is a bad tradeoff and doesn't help the family.

Why is that a bad trade off?
As long as we have enough money for the things we need and a lot of the things we want, then why is it so awful for a man to bake cookies with his daughter instead of making more money?

If you want an underemployed man who has lots of free time to make dr appointments and cookies, then have at it. I'm sure those types of men are a dime a dozen but I wouldn't know because I wouldn't be interested. But very few well paying jobs offer lots of flexibility and free time for the nonsense schools push on parents.

If you read the linked article, you will see that these men are not a dime a dozen, and in fact they don’t exist at all. Underemployed men don’t tend to spend their time doing things for their families.

Since you seem to be part of the problem here, saying that you would never date a man who is “underemployed” and seem to think that men have no value to their families outside of paid work, I would just like to hear your reasoning.

If the guy won't help around the house then he better be making a lot of of money to pick up the slack and afford outsourcing. IF your husband doesn't make much money and also doesn't help, then you have a bad picker and should have aimed higher.

Exactly.

Let him be a deadweight tag along.

To be clear, the guy making loads of money is the deadweight? Or the underemployed husband who doesn't help?

They are both deadweights within the household. The former is too lazy and selfish to spend time knowing his family members or self-direct the money towards correct resources, and the latter is a selfish leech.

So the guy funding the whole thing is deadweight? Interesting definition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

Some data for you OP

https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-myth-of-the-lazy-father

That’s Bs methodology. The work addict dad who avoids family responsibilities gets to count his 40-70 hours a week hiding out at the office, home office and iPhone as “household help?”

Yeah, we all know what that means. And what would happen if both parents behaved like that.

Right?
I mean, the fact that men spend more time at work and less time doing childcare is the exact issue.
It’s kind of upsetting that the author of this article doesn’t seem to get it.

If he's making more money for the family then it's time well spent. Making less money to have more time to make cookies for the old folks is a bad tradeoff and doesn't help the family.

Why is that a bad trade off?
As long as we have enough money for the things we need and a lot of the things we want, then why is it so awful for a man to bake cookies with his daughter instead of making more money?

If you want an underemployed man who has lots of free time to make dr appointments and cookies, then have at it. I'm sure those types of men are a dime a dozen but I wouldn't know because I wouldn't be interested. But very few well paying jobs offer lots of flexibility and free time for the nonsense schools push on parents.

And the reality is those PP's are imposing their judgment of what is "good for the family". Suppose the husbands said, I wish my wife would cut out all of the unnecessary crap and pick up some extra hours at work for the family. The kids don't need all of these extras; they'll be fine. They would be apoplectic. Yet somehow their judgments of how their husbands should "better" use their time "for the family" supersedes his. And, of course, you know that they would complain nonstop if husband was underemployed and funds to underwrite their dream lifestyle were lacking. These are just the sort of people who would complain no matter what.

My husband makes plenty of money and has decided his time is better spent at work rather than trying to DIY a leaky toilet or repairing dry wall. He's more than happy to pay someone who can do it right and not waste his time on it. That's the tradeoff we make. I handle the bulk of the kid stuff although he reads the school emails and will ask if I'm aware of this or that. He also does a lot of chauffeuring kids around. But he will never shop for the red dress or drop everything to get cookies. It works for us.

Can he tell when a toilet needs fixing?
Does he tell someone or call the repairman?
Does he arrange the repair time and let them in?
Does he pay the repair and look over the work?

Or does he see a leaky toilet or clogged drain in his very own home, and say nothing and do nothing?
Thats what I’m dealing with- and he “works” 5am-6pm at home and then drinks and watches TV from 6-9pm before crashing on the sofa. He has a 10pm alarm set on his phone to wake up and go upstairs to bed.

Is he underemployed or not? The tradeoff has to be a lot of money to make up the difference. Yours doesn't sound like he's bringing home the bacon at a high powered well paying job. Big difference.

You are missing the point.

If a high income but uninvolved dad can’t tell something or someone is broken or in need, and thus does nothing, then problem(s) will snowball.

Nothing to do with underemployed or not.
Has to do with paying attention, giving a damn and effort when at home.

For a high income i am willing to call the plumber myself. It’s not actually that hard and the family greatly benefits much more from the high income. Your husband is not making that much if you are this petty.

Why would you call the plumber? Did someone tell you to?
Or are you the only responsible adult in your family who has to find issues and do the right thing about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

Some data for you OP

https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-myth-of-the-lazy-father

That’s Bs methodology. The work addict dad who avoids family responsibilities gets to count his 40-70 hours a week hiding out at the office, home office and iPhone as “household help?”

Yeah, we all know what that means. And what would happen if both parents behaved like that.

Right?
I mean, the fact that men spend more time at work and less time doing childcare is the exact issue.
It’s kind of upsetting that the author of this article doesn’t seem to get it.

If he's making more money for the family then it's time well spent. Making less money to have more time to make cookies for the old folks is a bad tradeoff and doesn't help the family.

Why is that a bad trade off?
As long as we have enough money for the things we need and a lot of the things we want, then why is it so awful for a man to bake cookies with his daughter instead of making more money?

If you want an underemployed man who has lots of free time to make dr appointments and cookies, then have at it. I'm sure those types of men are a dime a dozen but I wouldn't know because I wouldn't be interested. But very few well paying jobs offer lots of flexibility and free time for the nonsense schools push on parents.

And the reality is those PP's are imposing their judgment of what is "good for the family". Suppose the husbands said, I wish my wife would cut out all of the unnecessary crap and pick up some extra hours at work for the family. The kids don't need all of these extras; they'll be fine. They would be apoplectic. Yet somehow their judgments of how their husbands should "better" use their time "for the family" supersedes his. And, of course, you know that they would complain nonstop if husband was underemployed and funds to underwrite their dream lifestyle were lacking. These are just the sort of people who would complain no matter what.

My husband makes plenty of money and has decided his time is better spent at work rather than trying to DIY a leaky toilet or repairing dry wall. He's more than happy to pay someone who can do it right and not waste his time on it. That's the tradeoff we make. I handle the bulk of the kid stuff although he reads the school emails and will ask if I'm aware of this or that. He also does a lot of chauffeuring kids around. But he will never shop for the red dress or drop everything to get cookies. It works for us.

Can he tell when a toilet needs fixing?
Does he tell someone or call the repairman?
Does he arrange the repair time and let them in?
Does he pay the repair and look over the work?

Or does he see a leaky toilet or clogged drain in his very own home, and say nothing and do nothing?
Thats what I’m dealing with- and he “works” 5am-6pm at home and then drinks and watches TV from 6-9pm before crashing on the sofa. He has a 10pm alarm set on his phone to wake up and go upstairs to bed.

Is he underemployed or not? The tradeoff has to be a lot of money to make up the difference. Yours doesn't sound like he's bringing home the bacon at a high powered well paying job. Big difference.

You are missing the point.

If a high income but uninvolved dad can’t tell something or someone is broken or in need, and thus does nothing, then problem(s) will snowball.

Nothing to do with underemployed or not.
Has to do with paying attention, giving a damn and effort when at home.

For a high income i am willing to call the plumber myself. It’s not actually that hard and the family greatly benefits much more from the high income. Your husband is not making that much if you are this petty.

I don't believe it is common for a high earning, long hours working dad not to even call a plumber when needed. I'm one, and I called a plumber when our heat went out. It was so easy. I even went down with my wife where we both pretended to have a clue about how to fix it for about 20 minutes before I called the plumber. I don't think I'm a hero or outlier. Now, if I'd fixed it myself, I might be a hero or outlier.

Agree. At some point of your adult life as a homeowner with kids, both parents have a Rolodex of repairmen and doctors in each of their phones. So when one of them sees an issue, they themselves call the appropriate repairman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

All of these things being … picking out some clothing, getting some cookies and a birthday present? That … sounds … exhausting? Is that what my takeaway is here?

At any point was there some discussion in the family? “Larla, find a green shirt. Marla, get your read dress. Darla, pick out a present on Amazon. Honey, can you pick up some snickerdoodles on the way home?”

I don’t think you actually have elementary schoolers. Or that you are responsible for them anyway.
The only thing most elementary schoolers could do on the OP’s list without any help is make the cookies. And that’s the only thing you outsourced.

Maybe your elementary schoolers are a little slow? Mine know their colors. If I asked my daughter to get her green shirt, she would do so. If I remind my 4th grader to get her red dress, she'd go get it.

You're missing the point entirely. The husband isn't the issue here. The OP's inability to communicate and play the martyr is.

Are you really this dumb or are you being purposefully obtuse? The point is that not everyone already has a green shirt or a red dress. Neither of my daughters has either of those things - they aren't colors they like to wear. So yeah, my kids can pick out the green shirt from the closet if it's there, but they can't drive themselves to the mall to purchase one if it's not.

Why is a red dress necessary for caroling?

How would wearing an existing article of clothing prevent the caroling?

And does this child even want to sing to old people?

You're using strawmen here.

That's not what a strawman is.

And the PP raises a good point. OP is all bent out of shape that her DH isn't helping with something that is not all that important. They can teach the kid not to care about stupid stuff like that. Or if it is so important to OP to go along with the dumb thing from the school, she can do it herself. But why should her priorities control?

R u kidding?

Most of life with kids the dad just shows up at the final thing, with no effort or aid or care of any of the steps leading up to it. Vacations, concerts, holidays, training, college apps, therapies, teen relationships, funerals, weddings, games or meets, graduations, parties, update letters, health treatments, big item purchases even.

They literally do nothing but focus on themselves or work, then show up to pretend they were part of something they had nothing to do with.

In OP’s three examples it was some concert, school field trip, and what not. She probably has 100 more examples as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: NP.

Yes those are OPs options.

Coparenting with a loser is just more of the same or worse, especially for the kids and their future. They won’t be ready for school or tests or games, they’ll miss things, and their habits will devolve during his custody time. And Op will still have to be in charge of everything since he doesn’t care about dental appts, correct sports gear, bday parties, being on time, dress code, and so on.

Even for OPs self-described "happy family"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

Some data for you OP

https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-myth-of-the-lazy-father

That’s Bs methodology. The work addict dad who avoids family responsibilities gets to count his 40-70 hours a week hiding out at the office, home office and iPhone as “household help?”

Yeah, we all know what that means. And what would happen if both parents behaved like that.

Right?
I mean, the fact that men spend more time at work and less time doing childcare is the exact issue.
It’s kind of upsetting that the author of this article doesn’t seem to get it.

If he's making more money for the family then it's time well spent. Making less money to have more time to make cookies for the old folks is a bad tradeoff and doesn't help the family.

Why is that a bad trade off?
As long as we have enough money for the things we need and a lot of the things we want, then why is it so awful for a man to bake cookies with his daughter instead of making more money?

If you want an underemployed man who has lots of free time to make dr appointments and cookies, then have at it. I'm sure those types of men are a dime a dozen but I wouldn't know because I wouldn't be interested. But very few well paying jobs offer lots of flexibility and free time for the nonsense schools push on parents.

If you read the linked article, you will see that these men are not a dime a dozen, and in fact they don’t exist at all. Underemployed men don’t tend to spend their time doing things for their families.

Since you seem to be part of the problem here, saying that you would never date a man who is “underemployed” and seem to think that men have no value to their families outside of paid work, I would just like to hear your reasoning.

If the guy won't help around the house then he better be making a lot of of money to pick up the slack and afford outsourcing. IF your husband doesn't make much money and also doesn't help, then you have a bad picker and should have aimed higher.

Exactly.

Let him be a deadweight tag along.

To be clear, the guy making loads of money is the deadweight? Or the underemployed husband who doesn't help?

They are both deadweights within the household. The former is too lazy and selfish to spend time knowing his family members or self-direct the money towards correct resources, and the latter is a selfish leech.

LOL, what? Anyone who manages to make a lot of money for a family is working hard for that family, and is by definition, not deadweight. My guess is that anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't make a lot of money and has no idea how hard that is to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

All of these things being … picking out some clothing, getting some cookies and a birthday present? That … sounds … exhausting? Is that what my takeaway is here?

At any point was there some discussion in the family? “Larla, find a green shirt. Marla, get your read dress. Darla, pick out a present on Amazon. Honey, can you pick up some snickerdoodles on the way home?”

Right. I definitely feel like a child writing and receiving an award for a speech is capable of getting a birthday present and saying dad my show is on x day and time be there.
Alot of this mental load stuff is being a parent and the struggle is created by the need for rigid control, and refusal to delegate

What kid is getting a birthday present? Do you allow your kids to surf your Amazon account and make their own purchases? Because most people don't want their kids to do that.

Lol, right? That person’s kids also buy their own clothes.
They can’t bake cookies though…

By the time they are 13 they are buying their own clothes. They have a budget and if they want to do in store shopping they tell us if they want a ride


Younger kids are capable of being told go to your room and get a red sweater or a green shirt

You just think you have all the answers! But oops! No red dress. Or that green shirt from last year is now 2 sizes too small. What now super mom?

Then either their dad or I buy one or take them to buy it. You do have to do somethings for kids because they are kids. Were you under the impression that you birth them and then magically stuff just happens for 18 years?

Maybe you just have undiagnosed ADHD so basic things are very challenging for you

Nobody says it's hard. But you seem stuck on these very simple tasks. But in a day there are so many very simple tasks. Someone has to do them. And husbands would say they are focused on many other tasks just not the buying shirt tasks. For my house our division of labor is pretty even but no, my husband doesn't have to do the shirt but he is leaving work early today to take the car for an oil change.

I just had AI tally our last five years of Amazon packages and costs. For Share of Mind sake.

Things I ordered, by quantity:
65% for the kids (bday presents, clothes costume, sports stuff, school materials)
30% for the house (snacks, kitchen items, decor, lawn/pest stuff)
5% for me (cosmetics on sale, snakca)

Things my husband ordered, by quantity):
5% for kids (usually returned, wasn’t listening)
90% for himself (clothes/shoes, electronics, 5+ shavers a year & forgets to pack them)
5% for the house (weird electronics or lights sitting in a pile now)

Dollar value and quantity value vastly ordered by me. Tho his random electronics add up big time (roomba, etc).

Ok? Amazon won't quantify for me the mental labor of dealing with the income taxes, car maintenance, investment management, and all the other things in our household division of labor. While shopping for the shirts and bday presents is annoying I don't want to take on the other tasks so it works for us and more or less evens out.

The crux of the problem is ONE parent will not or cannot see the family’s needs and proactively fulfill them — whether it’s the school’s stated concert attire for a kid, or no more cereal left, or a sick child needing medicine, emotional support of a teen.

Then everything falls onto the OTHER more functional parent, who also still works fulltime, can get an oil change every 5k miles or two years, rebalance a PA, fix a leaky toilet, and meal plan, etc.

I mean what good is knowing how to fix a leaky toilet if you’re too lazy to walk by said leaky toilet and do something about it asap or later that day. You need a royal invitation from your wife?

I’m sorry your husband is like that but don’t presume everyone is reading and nodding along.

DP. A lot of women have this issue with their husbands. It's understandable that we would seek to commiserate somewhere. That's what is happening here.

What I don't understand is why there are apparently so many women with husbands who are not like this who need to devote time to this thread and expressing disbelief that any men are like this, or claiming it's just one or something. It's obviously not. It's a trope for a reason.

I'm a woman with a husband who is not like this. I would say that I feel sympathy for people who are married to people (I could say men since it's mostly men but sometimes it's women) like this BUT I also can't stand the posts where people say that ALL men are useless. They're not. I know a ton of great ones. So I have no problem with YOU saying your husband sucks, and I'm sorry for you. But the people who insist it's all men are annoying. I know ONE guy like that, and another that I think is kind of a loser but does a lot more than OP's husband. I know dozens who aren't like that. So it bothers me when people say oh all men suck, welcome to being a woman. If I thought that were true I would tell my daughters to never get married (I hope that's what anyone who says all men are awful is doing, otherwise you're a hypocrite), but instead I tell them to find someone like their grandpa and dad.

How would you know how involved the husband is with anything day to day if all you do is see him at the concert or the meet or the BbQ party talking about work?

Face it, you have no idea how most households function or what goes on behind closed doors. Unless you take a long long vacation with them, or start asking real questions (what do you think of the math teacher or coach or new XYZ) or the wife pulls you aside and tells you the ugly truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it also a further mental load to keep track of all the things to be resentful about? If it’s such a shorter list why not keep track of the things you like about your DH? It would certainly ease your mental burden.

Great idea.

Please everyone start listing what you like about your DH contributing to the day to day household load.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Act 1
A happy family, one husband, one wife and three lovely children. Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions. Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies. Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon. Wife takes care of all of these things noiselessly, on top of regular work. She also lets husband know where to be on performance and award day.
Act 2
Husband: shows up.
Act 3
Society: why do women complain about mental labor? It’s a fiction that only exists in their hysterical imaginations and they invent tasks to do because they are hysterical.

Curtain.

All of these things being … picking out some clothing, getting some cookies and a birthday present? That … sounds … exhausting? Is that what my takeaway is here?

At any point was there some discussion in the family? “Larla, find a green shirt. Marla, get your read dress. Darla, pick out a present on Amazon. Honey, can you pick up some snickerdoodles on the way home?”

Right. I definitely feel like a child writing and receiving an award for a speech is capable of getting a birthday present and saying dad my show is on x day and time be there.
Alot of this mental load stuff is being a parent and the struggle is created by the need for rigid control, and refusal to delegate

What kid is getting a birthday present? Do you allow your kids to surf your Amazon account and make their own purchases? Because most people don't want their kids to do that.

Lol, right? That person’s kids also buy their own clothes.
They can’t bake cookies though…

By the time they are 13 they are buying their own clothes. They have a budget and if they want to do in store shopping they tell us if they want a ride


Younger kids are capable of being told go to your room and get a red sweater or a green shirt

You just think you have all the answers! But oops! No red dress. Or that green shirt from last year is now 2 sizes too small. What now super mom?

Then either their dad or I buy one or take them to buy it. You do have to do somethings for kids because they are kids. Were you under the impression that you birth them and then magically stuff just happens for 18 years?

Maybe you just have undiagnosed ADHD so basic things are very challenging for you

Nobody says it's hard. But you seem stuck on these very simple tasks. But in a day there are so many very simple tasks. Someone has to do them. And husbands would say they are focused on many other tasks just not the buying shirt tasks. For my house our division of labor is pretty even but no, my husband doesn't have to do the shirt but he is leaving work early today to take the car for an oil change.

I just had AI tally our last five years of Amazon packages and costs. For Share of Mind sake.

Things I ordered, by quantity:
65% for the kids (bday presents, clothes costume, sports stuff, school materials)
30% for the house (snacks, kitchen items, decor, lawn/pest stuff)
5% for me (cosmetics on sale, snakca)

Things my husband ordered, by quantity):
5% for kids (usually returned, wasn’t listening)
90% for himself (clothes/shoes, electronics, 5+ shavers a year & forgets to pack them)
5% for the house (weird electronics or lights sitting in a pile now)

Dollar value and quantity value vastly ordered by me. Tho his random electronics add up big time (roomba, etc).

Ok? Amazon won't quantify for me the mental labor of dealing with the income taxes, car maintenance, investment management, and all the other things in our household division of labor. While shopping for the shirts and bday presents is annoying I don't want to take on the other tasks so it works for us and more or less evens out.

The crux of the problem is ONE parent will not or cannot see the family’s needs and proactively fulfill them — whether it’s the school’s stated concert attire for a kid, or no more cereal left, or a sick child needing medicine, emotional support of a teen.

Then everything falls onto the OTHER more functional parent, who also still works fulltime, can get an oil change every 5k miles or two years, rebalance a PA, fix a leaky toilet, and meal plan, etc.

I mean what good is knowing how to fix a leaky toilet if you’re too lazy to walk by said leaky toilet and do something about it asap or later that day. You need a royal invitation from your wife?

I’m sorry your husband is like that but don’t presume everyone is reading and nodding along.

DP. A lot of women have this issue with their husbands. It's understandable that we would seek to commiserate somewhere. That's what is happening here.

What I don't understand is why there are apparently so many women with husbands who are not like this who need to devote time to this thread and expressing disbelief that any men are like this, or claiming it's just one or something. It's obviously not. It's a trope for a reason.

I'm a woman with a husband who is not like this. I would say that I feel sympathy for people who are married to people (I could say men since it's mostly men but sometimes it's women) like this BUT I also can't stand the posts where people say that ALL men are useless. They're not. I know a ton of great ones. So I have no problem with YOU saying your husband sucks, and I'm sorry for you. But the people who insist it's all men are annoying. I know ONE guy like that, and another that I think is kind of a loser but does a lot more than OP's husband. I know dozens who aren't like that. So it bothers me when people say oh all men suck, welcome to being a woman. If I thought that were true I would tell my daughters to never get married (I hope that's what anyone who says all men are awful is doing, otherwise you're a hypocrite), but instead I tell them to find someone like their grandpa and dad.

How would you know how involved the husband is with anything day to day if all you do is see him at the concert or the meet or the BbQ party talking about work?

Face it, you have no idea how most households function or what goes on behind closed doors. Unless you take a long long vacation with them, or start asking real questions (what do you think of the math teacher or coach or new XYZ) or the wife pulls you aside and tells you the ugly truth.

Well then you don't know how involved husbands are either, nor do the other posters complaint that all men are useless. That's what PP is talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems the OP is complaining that she is shouldering more of the burden for kid-related activities (a shock, I know).

However, she does not mention what her DH was doing while she was getting the correct dress for her DD, etc. The answer to this question has a material impact here.

For example, if he is a vascular surgeon earning 90% of the household income, then she has little right to complain since he is earning the lion's share of their household income (HHI). BTW - My opinion would remain the same if the genders were reversed (i.e., she was the surgeon and he was out buying the red dress).

If both are contributing the same amount to their HHI, he should pick up half the kid-related tasks. If one outearns the other, the lower earner should pick up more of the slack. The math is simple: the higher earner in the family should focus more on their job to ensure they (as a unit) earn the most together.

Have you ever seen how many days a month a surgeon or ER doctor works? It’s easy to see as they schedule months ahead of time their day shifts. Take a guess PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
R u kidding?

Most of life with kids the dad just shows up at the final thing, with no effort or aid or care of any of the steps leading up to it. Vacations, concerts, holidays, training, college apps, therapies, teen relationships, funerals, weddings, games or meets, graduations, parties, update letters, health treatments, big item purchases even.

They literally do nothing but focus on themselves or work, then show up to pretend they were part of something they had nothing to do with.

In OP’s three examples it was some concert, school field trip, and what not.

The three examples are:

Child A has a holiday performance on Thursday morning and needs to wear a “green Christmas sweater, blue jeans and white sneakers” per teacher instructions.

Child 2 has Christmas caroling at the old people’s home on Friday and needs a red dress and plate of cookies.

Child 3 is receiving an award for a speech on Friday also, and will be needing a birthday present for friend’s party that same afternoon.

She probably has 100 more examples as well.

And I hope they are as trivial as cookies. If they rise to the severity of what other posters have described, I'd feel worse the the children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think people are being a bit obtuse focusing on the individual tasks and arguing over whether or not they are important. That's not the issue.

The issue is that when one spouse is left to do all the little administrative tasks and the other partner makes no effort to participate, doesn't pay attention to the emails about these things, doesn't participate in any way, not even in deciding "hey this is not important, let's let Carla where what she wants for caroling and if the organizer complains I'll handle it" or whatever, then what you've done is turned one spouse into the family's administrative assistant.

And the stuff they do in this capacity may not be individually important in every instance, but overall the role is a lot and can become very burdensome.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I think people are being a bit obtuse focusing on the individual tasks and arguing over whether or not they are important.

No, it's common sense.

When people assign importance to tasks, they can focus on more important tasks and de-prioritize things that are unnecessary. If your spouse and/or family is not contributing, that's even more reason to de-prioritize the unnecessary.

How can someone who doesn’t read any of their non-work emails or texts prioritize them?