The helicopter parents won - a look back

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But my kids weren't a breath away from an anxiety disorder and are happy people. I think that's worth more than going to a higher-ranked college.

OP here. I don’t think that was the choice. My kids were probably going to be happy either way.

The realization that I have come to is that I traded opportunities to improve my kids chances for easier weekends and less hectic weeknights.

At the time I didn’t realize that’s what I was doing - but that’s what I did.

If we had pushed math more would they have had a better chance at UVA and Michigan- almost certainly.

If we had done travel sports I don’t know if they would have played in college but they would’ve almost certainly made the highschool baseball team.

In the plus side I did have a lot more in the 529s than I would have if I pursued additional opportunities.

What gets me is I thought we were already doing a lot. We sat with them while they did their homework., they were always on a team I even coached a couple of their teams early on.

For the posters, who were saying that life’s a marathon, and not a sprint. I think you’re missing the point. A parent’s strategy is open as many doors as possible. It’s up to them to choose the door. I think the net results of not pushing harder in sports and academically was there fewer doors for them to go through

The doors are not exclusively located on college campuses, is the thing.

But those doors are always available. At what point are those other doors not open?

You are mistaken. Those doors are not always available.

There are finite opportunities to enter service academies, skilled trades programs (alone or as an adjunct to high-test liberal arts education), and particular niche institutions of higher education that may be better fits for a given person than the most elite colleges.

There are finite opportunities to prevent stress-mediated mental health problems that can last a lifetime (or end in death).

There are finite opportunities to be fully present in the life one is leading today, vs simply striving for a specific future outcome. This moment will be gone when that future arrives; it can’t be gotten back.

These are all doors that can and often do close while the focus is single-mindedly on college admissions.

You can't open all the doors all the time but you can't argue that pushing your kids to do their best and fulfill their potential closes any doors. And doing that doesn't close the door to service academies or trade organizations. Explain how after a parent doing their best means a kid can't go to a trade school? This makes zero sense. Sitting on the couch at home vs participating in sports, clubs, music, theater doesn't close any doors. Being a couch potato will certainly limit opportunities.

DP. In this thread, we seem to have lost sight of the difference between participating and being pushed to dominate. I believe we were initially talking about the latter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here I’ve been accused of being a “laid back snow plow parent” and “checking out on my kids” the trolling on this site is ponderous.

My post is part lament and part warning. I thought that we were active parents with well adjusted kids that were doing pretty well. Particularly in early elementary school I thought the parents pushing their kids into ever higher math groups and scheming to get their 2nd graders into the most competitive travel team were slightly unhinged. But now looking at the results I think I was wrong.

The facts are these.

1. Up through middle school I had good and happy kids they did well in schools and standardized tests and participated in rec sports every season. We sat with them while they did thier homework, went to thier games met with their teachers and even coached a few of their teams.


2. In high school- They did well academically and took a few APs. But they were not among the most advanced kids. My eldest never made the highschool baseball team and my youngest seeing his brother ‘s struggles switched to lacrosse. Both participated in varsity sports (cross country, track and lacrosse for our youngest)

3. Both were accepted to good but not elite colleges. Whereas many of the kids we started with are going to elite school and/or recruited athletes.

4. I’m not unhappy with their experience or results but In retrospect I think if we had pushed more in elementary school we would’ve gotten better results. I think they would have certainly played highschool baseball if we had taken it more seriously.

As I wrote before - when they were smaller we didn’t want hectic nights and weekends so we didn’t prioritize travel sports. The kids were happy and doing well in school so we thought there was no need to push them into more advanced classes.

I understand that we are very fortunate that our kids are happy healthy and going to good schools but looking back we missed opportunities. Would pushing have substantially changed the outcome- I don’t know. But the cost for that pushing would not have been that much more than we were already doing.

This is honestly one of the saddest things I have ever read here.

Why is it sad? It sounds honest.

I have a kid who plays basketball. He tried out for 7th grade travel and did not make it. We learned after he was cut that there is this whole world of basketball skills training and coaching. We were naive that DS could just try out and make this team. High school basketball team has all travel and AAU kids so a regular rec kid won’t make it.

I wish people would have told us. We have a friend from preschool whose kid has played basketball since he was like 5. The parents were always taking him to basketball training and I always thought they pushed him too hard. The kid has been playing AAU since he was 8/9 playing up.

I’m not even sure if it is helicopter parenting or pushing. It is time and money. Many parents work and overextended. I don’t work now but I used to work and getting my kid to soccer practice once a week while dragging the younger sibling seemed like a lot in addition to working. There is no way I would have signed up my kid for all these extra clinics and driven him daily. The working parents who do this are truly dedicated.

DP. What’s wrong with just remaining a regular rec league kid? Even if every parent were to be so “dedicated” and do all the clinics and all the extra training, there’s still only so many spots in a high school team. They can’t all have it. But the kids who weren’t pushed and don’t have the elite skills can still get so much joy out of just playing the game. I’d guess they might even get far more out of just being able to play in a low stakes environment. These parents who are buying into the youth sports industrial complex are being taken for a ride.

👏👏👏

Why are you clapping?

My kid wants to make the high school team. He is only in seventh grade but he will be disappointed if he doesn’t make the high school team and his friends do. This will be a different high school experience.

If your kid is of average or below average athleticism and s/he doesn’t care or is not competitive, that is fine for all. Parents are happy. Kids are happy not trying out or getting cut in their sport. There are other kids who want to make the team, like my kid.

I hope you’re putting as much effort into teaching him to deal with disappointment, as that will serve him far greater in the long term than playing on the high school team will.

+1

What will you do in life when there are no more coaches or tutors???

They will cheat, lie, bend the rules in their favor. I think that’s the real endgame of so much intensive parenting—to position your kid high enough in the power structure that they can change the rules in their favor, or escape consequences for outright cheating. The majority of people are just average. So many people who describe themselves as high achievers are just average + money and/or power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Obviously, parental involvement and even pushing is a factor but no one can perform at top tier out of fear of parents. That's not how IQ works.

Cue the cheating in high school/college thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sending my youngest to college next year. He got into a good school early addmission and all of my kids did well. But as I look back on this parenting experience it occurs to me that the kids with the fanaticaly involved parents did the best - academically and athletically.

When the kids were in early elementary school, I remember shaking my head as my fellow parents talked about advanced math tutoring for their kindergartener or plotting to get their second grader on the most competitive travel team. At the time it seemed so silly to chart out the life of a kid who still needed naps. However, looking at those kids now - those are the kids who are going on to play sports at top colleges.

My takeaway is that even if you are a committed free range parent - your kid is in a competitive environment competing for scarce opportunities to go to top schools and play for competitive school teams.

I’m not unhappy about how my kids turned out or their experience in high School. But I don’t think I realized the the decision not to push advanced math in grade school meant a diminished opportunity to go to Tech or UMD. I definitely didn’t realize that only doing town baseball (and not travel) meant that they wouldn’t make the highschool team.

It not like my kids were slouches. They played on at least one rec team every season. Swim team in the summer and got good grades and scores on standardized tests.

But I can’t shake the feeling that I’ve pushed harder our results would’ve been much better.

Yes to the bold. If any of this matters to parents, and the children have the capacity and capability (the latter are super important, critical), there needs to be a plan. If the children do not have the capacity and capability, they no amount of pushing would advance them. They key I think is knowing your kid and understanding their potential, and then lining up the opportunities accordingly.

I haven't gotten far in this thread but it seems sick.
So the two measurements of good parenting are these successful outcomes: 1) college acceptances 2) playing sports at a college (related to 1)

This is DCUM. Those are literally the only 2 things that matter.

Bingo....this area is sick

[Anonymous]

My husband and I were not pushers and my two kids are now older. My daughter was very self-motivated and got into an Ivy. Son also tested well but was more laid back, went to a less selective school. Son took a year or two longer to launch after graduation but they both quickly became very successful. The workplace doesn’t reward the same skills as the school/EC setting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I were not pushers and my two kids are now older. My daughter was very self-motivated and got into an Ivy. Son also tested well but was more laid back, went to a less selective school. Son took a year or two longer to launch after graduation but they both quickly became very successful. The workplace doesn’t reward the same skills as the school/EC setting.

+1

The workplace does not have tutors and coaches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I were not pushers and my two kids are now older. My daughter was very self-motivated and got into an Ivy. Son also tested well but was more laid back, went to a less selective school. Son took a year or two longer to launch after graduation but they both quickly became very successful. The workplace doesn’t reward the same skills as the school/EC setting.

+1

The workplace does not have tutors and coaches.

DP. My org recently created a new position of “staff success coach,” as the young folks increasingly come in and have no idea how to navigate the workplace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But my kids weren't a breath away from an anxiety disorder and are happy people. I think that's worth more than going to a higher-ranked college.

OP here. I don’t think that was the choice. My kids were probably going to be happy either way.

The realization that I have come to is that I traded opportunities to improve my kids chances for easier weekends and less hectic weeknights.

At the time I didn’t realize that’s what I was doing - but that’s what I did.

If we had pushed math more would they have had a better chance at UVA and Michigan- almost certainly.

If we had done travel sports I don’t know if they would have played in college but they would’ve almost certainly made the highschool baseball team.

In the plus side I did have a lot more in the 529s than I would have if I pursued additional opportunities.

What gets me is I thought we were already doing a lot. We sat with them while they did their homework., they were always on a team I even coached a couple of their teams early on.

For the posters, who were saying that life’s a marathon, and not a sprint. I think you’re missing the point. A parent’s strategy is open as many doors as possible. It’s up to them to choose the door. I think the net results of not pushing harder in sports and academically was there fewer doors for them to go through

The doors are not exclusively located on college campuses, is the thing.

But those doors are always available. At what point are those other doors not open?

You are mistaken. Those doors are not always available.

There are finite opportunities to enter service academies, skilled trades programs (alone or as an adjunct to high-test liberal arts education), and particular niche institutions of higher education that may be better fits for a given person than the most elite colleges.

There are finite opportunities to prevent stress-mediated mental health problems that can last a lifetime (or end in death).

There are finite opportunities to be fully present in the life one is leading today, vs simply striving for a specific future outcome. This moment will be gone when that future arrives; it can’t be gotten back.

These are all doors that can and often do close while the focus is single-mindedly on college admissions.

You can't open all the doors all the time but you can't argue that pushing your kids to do their best and fulfill their potential closes any doors. And doing that doesn't close the door to service academies or trade organizations. Explain how after a parent doing their best means a kid can't go to a trade school? This makes zero sense. Sitting on the couch at home vs participating in sports, clubs, music, theater doesn't close any doors. Being a couch potato will certainly limit opportunities.

Such black and white thinking. Why are the options being a couch potato or being in travel sports/being over scheduled? It’s a continuum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here I’ve been accused of being a “laid back snow plow parent” and “checking out on my kids” the trolling on this site is ponderous.

My post is part lament and part warning. I thought that we were active parents with well adjusted kids that were doing pretty well. Particularly in early elementary school I thought the parents pushing their kids into ever higher math groups and scheming to get their 2nd graders into the most competitive travel team were slightly unhinged. But now looking at the results I think I was wrong.

The facts are these.

1. Up through middle school I had good and happy kids they did well in schools and standardized tests and participated in rec sports every season. We sat with them while they did thier homework, went to thier games met with their teachers and even coached a few of their teams.


2. In high school- They did well academically and took a few APs. But they were not among the most advanced kids. My eldest never made the highschool baseball team and my youngest seeing his brother ‘s struggles switched to lacrosse. Both participated in varsity sports (cross country, track and lacrosse for our youngest)

3. Both were accepted to good but not elite colleges. Whereas many of the kids we started with are going to elite school and/or recruited athletes.

4. I’m not unhappy with their experience or results but In retrospect I think if we had pushed more in elementary school we would’ve gotten better results. I think they would have certainly played highschool baseball if we had taken it more seriously.

As I wrote before - when they were smaller we didn’t want hectic nights and weekends so we didn’t prioritize travel sports. The kids were happy and doing well in school so we thought there was no need to push them into more advanced classes.

I understand that we are very fortunate that our kids are happy healthy and going to good schools but looking back we missed opportunities. Would pushing have substantially changed the outcome- I don’t know. But the cost for that pushing would not have been that much more than we were already doing.

This is honestly one of the saddest things I have ever read here.

Why is it sad? It sounds honest.

I have a kid who plays basketball. He tried out for 7th grade travel and did not make it. We learned after he was cut that there is this whole world of basketball skills training and coaching. We were naive that DS could just try out and make this team. High school basketball team has all travel and AAU kids so a regular rec kid won’t make it.

I wish people would have told us. We have a friend from preschool whose kid has played basketball since he was like 5. The parents were always taking him to basketball training and I always thought they pushed him too hard. The kid has been playing AAU since he was 8/9 playing up.

I’m not even sure if it is helicopter parenting or pushing. It is time and money. Many parents work and overextended. I don’t work now but I used to work and getting my kid to soccer practice once a week while dragging the younger sibling seemed like a lot in addition to working. There is no way I would have signed up my kid for all these extra clinics and driven him daily. The working parents who do this are truly dedicated.

DP. What’s wrong with just remaining a regular rec league kid? Even if every parent were to be so “dedicated” and do all the clinics and all the extra training, there’s still only so many spots in a high school team. They can’t all have it. But the kids who weren’t pushed and don’t have the elite skills can still get so much joy out of just playing the game. I’d guess they might even get far more out of just being able to play in a low stakes environment. These parents who are buying into the youth sports industrial complex are being taken for a ride.

👏👏👏

Why are you clapping?

My kid wants to make the high school team. He is only in seventh grade but he will be disappointed if he doesn’t make the high school team and his friends do. This will be a different high school experience.

If your kid is of average or below average athleticism and s/he doesn’t care or is not competitive, that is fine for all. Parents are happy. Kids are happy not trying out or getting cut in their sport. There are other kids who want to make the team, like my kid.

I hope you’re putting as much effort into teaching him to deal with disappointment, as that will serve him far greater in the long term than playing on the high school team will.

+1

What will you do in life when there are no more coaches or tutors???

They will cheat, lie, bend the rules in their favor. I think that’s the real endgame of so much intensive parenting—to position your kid high enough in the power structure that they can change the rules in their favor, or escape consequences for outright cheating. The majority of people are just average. So many people who describe themselves as high achievers are just average + money and/or power.

These kids then freak out in college when professors don’t negotiate grades with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But my kids weren't a breath away from an anxiety disorder and are happy people. I think that's worth more than going to a higher-ranked college.

OP here. I don’t think that was the choice. My kids were probably going to be happy either way.

The realization that I have come to is that I traded opportunities to improve my kids chances for easier weekends and less hectic weeknights.

At the time I didn’t realize that’s what I was doing - but that’s what I did.

If we had pushed math more would they have had a better chance at UVA and Michigan- almost certainly.

If we had done travel sports I don’t know if they would have played in college but they would’ve almost certainly made the highschool baseball team.

In the plus side I did have a lot more in the 529s than I would have if I pursued additional opportunities.

What gets me is I thought we were already doing a lot. We sat with them while they did their homework., they were always on a team I even coached a couple of their teams early on.

For the posters, who were saying that life’s a marathon, and not a sprint. I think you’re missing the point. A parent’s strategy is open as many doors as possible. It’s up to them to choose the door. I think the net results of not pushing harder in sports and academically was there fewer doors for them to go through

The doors are not exclusively located on college campuses, is the thing.

But those doors are always available. At what point are those other doors not open?

You are mistaken. Those doors are not always available.

There are finite opportunities to enter service academies, skilled trades programs (alone or as an adjunct to high-test liberal arts education), and particular niche institutions of higher education that may be better fits for a given person than the most elite colleges.

There are finite opportunities to prevent stress-mediated mental health problems that can last a lifetime (or end in death).

There are finite opportunities to be fully present in the life one is leading today, vs simply striving for a specific future outcome. This moment will be gone when that future arrives; it can’t be gotten back.

These are all doors that can and often do close while the focus is single-mindedly on college admissions.

You can't open all the doors all the time but you can't argue that pushing your kids to do their best and fulfill their potential closes any doors. And doing that doesn't close the door to service academies or trade organizations. Explain how after a parent doing their best means a kid can't go to a trade school? This makes zero sense. Sitting on the couch at home vs participating in sports, clubs, music, theater doesn't close any doors. Being a couch potato will certainly limit opportunities.

We’re having two different conversations, I think. My point is that when parents “doing their best” means optimizing their child for elite college admissions only, they are in fact closing other doors. Service academies require additional kinds of achievements and qualifications that aren’t 100% aligned with elite college admissions. The same, to a larger extent, goes for trades programs that any given person might find a dramatically more satisfying basis for lifelong earning ability—and control over their own time and working conditions—than attendance at HYP.

As anyone living through RTO to an office for no real reason can attest, these are not small issues.

I notice that the mental health issues involved in pushing as hard as OP is proposing don’t fuss you much. Godspeed to you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here I’ve been accused of being a “laid back snow plow parent” and “checking out on my kids” the trolling on this site is ponderous.

My post is part lament and part warning. I thought that we were active parents with well adjusted kids that were doing pretty well. Particularly in early elementary school I thought the parents pushing their kids into ever higher math groups and scheming to get their 2nd graders into the most competitive travel team were slightly unhinged. But now looking at the results I think I was wrong.

The facts are these.

1. Up through middle school I had good and happy kids they did well in schools and standardized tests and participated in rec sports every season. We sat with them while they did thier homework, went to thier games met with their teachers and even coached a few of their teams.


2. In high school- They did well academically and took a few APs. But they were not among the most advanced kids. My eldest never made the highschool baseball team and my youngest seeing his brother ‘s struggles switched to lacrosse. Both participated in varsity sports (cross country, track and lacrosse for our youngest)

3. Both were accepted to good but not elite colleges. Whereas many of the kids we started with are going to elite school and/or recruited athletes.

4. I’m not unhappy with their experience or results but In retrospect I think if we had pushed more in elementary school we would’ve gotten better results. I think they would have certainly played highschool baseball if we had taken it more seriously.

As I wrote before - when they were smaller we didn’t want hectic nights and weekends so we didn’t prioritize travel sports. The kids were happy and doing well in school so we thought there was no need to push them into more advanced classes.

I understand that we are very fortunate that our kids are happy healthy and going to good schools but looking back we missed opportunities. Would pushing have substantially changed the outcome- I don’t know. But the cost for that pushing would not have been that much more than we were already doing.

This is honestly one of the saddest things I have ever read here.

I agree. It's sad because when you step back and look at a lot of the underlying beliefs in this post, you see that many parents see child rearing as a competitive zero sum game, with the end goal being more about status, money and the like, versus a lot of the simpler and more humane goals that most parents start out with when our kids were born – making them well rounded, resilient, joyful, curious and content.

All the helicopter parents are going to say, they are not mutually exclusive ideals! But they are. And you see that many parents abandon these ideals, like the OP, as they succumb to the pressures and human instincts to want to get ahead, at all costs.

Sure OP it's too bad that your kid isn't going to be a law firm partner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here I’ve been accused of being a “laid back snow plow parent” and “checking out on my kids” the trolling on this site is ponderous.

My post is part lament and part warning. I thought that we were active parents with well adjusted kids that were doing pretty well. Particularly in early elementary school I thought the parents pushing their kids into ever higher math groups and scheming to get their 2nd graders into the most competitive travel team were slightly unhinged. But now looking at the results I think I was wrong.

The facts are these.

1. Up through middle school I had good and happy kids they did well in schools and standardized tests and participated in rec sports every season. We sat with them while they did thier homework, went to thier games met with their teachers and even coached a few of their teams.


2. In high school- They did well academically and took a few APs. But they were not among the most advanced kids. My eldest never made the highschool baseball team and my youngest seeing his brother ‘s struggles switched to lacrosse. Both participated in varsity sports (cross country, track and lacrosse for our youngest)

3. Both were accepted to good but not elite colleges. Whereas many of the kids we started with are going to elite school and/or recruited athletes.

4. I’m not unhappy with their experience or results but In retrospect I think if we had pushed more in elementary school we would’ve gotten better results. I think they would have certainly played highschool baseball if we had taken it more seriously.

As I wrote before - when they were smaller we didn’t want hectic nights and weekends so we didn’t prioritize travel sports. The kids were happy and doing well in school so we thought there was no need to push them into more advanced classes.

I understand that we are very fortunate that our kids are happy healthy and going to good schools but looking back we missed opportunities. Would pushing have substantially changed the outcome- I don’t know. But the cost for that pushing would not have been that much more than we were already doing.

This is honestly one of the saddest things I have ever read here.

I agree. It's sad because when you step back and look at a lot of the underlying beliefs in this post, you see that many parents see child rearing as a competitive zero sum game, with the end goal being more about status, money and the like, versus a lot of the simpler and more humane goals that most parents start out with when our kids were born – making them well rounded, resilient, joyful, curious and content.

All the helicopter parents are going to say, they are not mutually exclusive ideals! But they are. And you see that many parents abandon these ideals, like the OP, as they succumb to the pressures and human instincts to want to get ahead, at all costs.

Sure OP it's too bad that your kid isn't going to be a law firm partner.

Agree 100% with one exception. There isn't any reason to think their kid couldn't be a law firm partner. It's still too early to tell in the kids life. Not all law firm partners went to "elite" undergrads. The disappointed OP is writing their kids' stories before they even begin

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here I’ve been accused of being a “laid back snow plow parent” and “checking out on my kids” the trolling on this site is ponderous.




👏👏👏

I hope you’re putting as much effort into teaching him to deal with disappointment, as that will serve him far greater in the long term than playing on the high school team will.

+1

What will you do in life when there are no more coaches or tutors???

We always have coaches and tutors in life. In the workplace they are called mentors - formal or informal. Those who have informal mentors are far more successful in their careers than those who are not. It doesnt stop at high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here I’ve been accused of being a “laid back snow plow parent” and “checking out on my kids” the trolling on this site is ponderous.

My post is part lament and part warning. I thought that we were active parents with well adjusted kids that were doing pretty well. Particularly in early elementary school I thought the parents pushing their kids into ever higher math groups and scheming to get their 2nd graders into the most competitive travel team were slightly unhinged. But now looking at the results I think I was wrong.

The facts are these.

1. Up through middle school I had good and happy kids they did well in schools and standardized tests and participated in rec sports every season. We sat with them while they did thier homework, went to thier games met with their teachers and even coached a few of their teams.


2. In high school- They did well academically and took a few APs. But they were not among the most advanced kids. My eldest never made the highschool baseball team and my youngest seeing his brother ‘s struggles switched to lacrosse. Both participated in varsity sports (cross country, track and lacrosse for our youngest)

3. Both were accepted to good but not elite colleges. Whereas many of the kids we started with are going to elite school and/or recruited athletes.

4. I’m not unhappy with their experience or results but In retrospect I think if we had pushed more in elementary school we would’ve gotten better results. I think they would have certainly played highschool baseball if we had taken it more seriously.

As I wrote before - when they were smaller we didn’t want hectic nights and weekends so we didn’t prioritize travel sports. The kids were happy and doing well in school so we thought there was no need to push them into more advanced classes.

I understand that we are very fortunate that our kids are happy healthy and going to good schools but looking back we missed opportunities. Would pushing have substantially changed the outcome- I don’t know. But the cost for that pushing would not have been that much more than we were already doing.

This is honestly one of the saddest things I have ever read here.

I agree. It's sad because when you step back and look at a lot of the underlying beliefs in this post, you see that many parents see child rearing as a competitive zero sum game, with the end goal being more about status, money and the like, versus a lot of the simpler and more humane goals that most parents start out with when our kids were born – making them well rounded, resilient, joyful, curious and content.

All the helicopter parents are going to say, they are not mutually exclusive ideals! But they are. And you see that many parents abandon these ideals, like the OP, as they succumb to the pressures and human instincts to want to get ahead, at all costs.

Sure OP it's too bad that your kid isn't going to be a law firm partner.

Agree 100% with one exception. There isn't any reason to think their kid couldn't be a law firm partner. It's still too early to tell in the kids life. Not all law firm partners went to "elite" undergrads. The disappointed OP is writing their kids' stories before they even begin

Is being a law firm partner a successful life? I personally don't think so at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But my kids weren't a breath away from an anxiety disorder and are happy people. I think that's worth more than going to a higher-ranked college.

OP here. I don’t think that was the choice. My kids were probably going to be happy either way.

The realization that I have come to is that I traded opportunities to improve my kids chances for easier weekends and less hectic weeknights.

At the time I didn’t realize that’s what I was doing - but that’s what I did.

If we had pushed math more would they have had a better chance at UVA and Michigan- almost certainly.

If we had done travel sports I don’t know if they would have played in college but they would’ve almost certainly made the highschool baseball team.

In the plus side I did have a lot more in the 529s than I would have if I pursued additional opportunities.

What gets me is I thought we were already doing a lot. We sat with them while they did their homework., they were always on a team I even coached a couple of their teams early on.

For the posters, who were saying that life’s a marathon, and not a sprint. I think you’re missing the point. A parent’s strategy is open as many doors as possible. It’s up to them to choose the door. I think the net results of not pushing harder in sports and academically was there fewer doors for them to go through

The doors are not exclusively located on college campuses, is the thing.

But those doors are always available. At what point are those other doors not open?

You are mistaken. Those doors are not always available.

There are finite opportunities to enter service academies, skilled trades programs (alone or as an adjunct to high-test liberal arts education), and particular niche institutions of higher education that may be better fits for a given person than the most elite colleges.

There are finite opportunities to prevent stress-mediated mental health problems that can last a lifetime (or end in death).

There are finite opportunities to be fully present in the life one is leading today, vs simply striving for a specific future outcome. This moment will be gone when that future arrives; it can’t be gotten back.

These are all doors that can and often do close while the focus is single-mindedly on college admissions.

You can't open all the doors all the time but you can't argue that pushing your kids to do their best and fulfill their potential closes any doors. And doing that doesn't close the door to service academies or trade organizations. Explain how after a parent doing their best means a kid can't go to a trade school? This makes zero sense. Sitting on the couch at home vs participating in sports, clubs, music, theater doesn't close any doors. Being a couch potato will certainly limit opportunities.

We’re having two different conversations, I think. My point is that when parents “doing their best” means optimizing their child for elite college admissions only, they are in fact closing other doors. Service academies require additional kinds of achievements and qualifications that aren’t 100% aligned with elite college admissions. The same, to a larger extent, goes for trades programs that any given person might find a dramatically more satisfying basis for lifelong earning ability—and control over their own time and working conditions—than attendance at HYP.

As anyone living through RTO to an office for no real reason can attest, these are not small issues.

I notice that the mental health issues involved in pushing as hard as OP is proposing don’t fuss you much. Godspeed to you!

Yea you are on your own tangent. Nobody is talking only about elite college.