I'm so tired of mom cliques

[Anonymous]

So if your "friends" are not really your "friends", why don't you just organize your own group? This is where all of these complaints lose me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So if your "friends" are not really your "friends", why don't you just organize your own group? This is where all of these complaints lose me.

Yes, if the women in your immediate social circle and area exclude you or seem to treat you like you don’t belong, just go to the friend store and pick up a pack of friends. Easy peasy. I don’t understand why more people don’t try this.

[Anonymous]

How can these cliques possibly be affecting you? My kids go to their schools, not me. I drop them off, I go to work. The other parents are non factors, I do not see them. What are you doing that other kids’ parents are a daily issue in your life?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How can these cliques possibly be affecting you? My kids go to their schools, not me. I drop them off, I go to work. The other parents are non factors, I do not see them. What are you doing that other kids’ parents are a daily issue in your life?

I don’t have an issue with a mom clique but my sense is that it’s an issue for SAHMs (for whom other SAHMs are like colleagues, so this would be like being isolated at work) and people with very young kids who are in the jointly-supervised play date phase.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to be part of a social group where people posted stuff like this a lot. I met them through my job, which had an extremely social culture and there was a lot of pressure to hang out outside work. People were mostly late 20s/early 30s.

Not just girls nights and bbq’s (though also those) but almost any outing. They’d go shopping with a couple friends and post photos of themselves in the dressing room (#shopshopshop #mirrorpics #howdoilook). They’d go to a movie and post a photo of themselves sitting in the movie theater before the movie started (#popcorntime #welovedanielcraig). I had been an occasional Facebook user before this but being part of this crew sucked me in— I was scrolling my feed multiple times a day. I started posting more. Probably less than some people because I hate how I look in photos so I’m just much less likely to want to take and post a random photo. But way more than before.

Here’s what I learned during my time with this group of friends:

1. This kind of social media use causes drama. Full stop. There were ALWAYS people who felt left out or hurt. I think it also drove insecurity. This was the most insecure group of people I’ve ever been around, and I include myself. It was worse than middles school or high school (pre social media).

2. It reinforces social hierarchies. The people who post the most are the people who can do the most things. Meaning: people with more money, more time, better access to things that will look cool in a photo (nice house, cool work travel, etc). Their posts drive attention, and thus popularity. This was the most high school thing about it. And yes, of course, being photogenic in a friend group that posts every single photo to socials is a big boon.

3. People 100% used it to hurt people or assert dominance. An anecdote: there was a work-related disagreement between two women. The night after it happened, one of them invited two key senior staffers to her house to hang out, then posted the photos of them all drinking wine and laughing to Facebook. The senior staffers were not even aware of the disagreement at the time, but it was obvious to those of us who did know that this was a calculated move to show she had certain people in her corner. There was a lot of behavior like this (see not about drama/insecurity above).

It wasn’t until I moved on from that job that I realized how toxic this all is. I know it’s an extreme example, but it really revealed to me how messed up this behavior is. It destroys relationships, puts people on edge.

I have since quit Facebook, and post to Instagram maybe 6 times a year, generally so relatives and far away friends can see pics of my kid growing up. My account is private and I removed most of the people from that part of my life from my followers, not out if malice, but because I don’t want that kind of behavior in my life anymore.

You can, of course, do what you want. But I think many of you who post everything to social media and don’t care who it hurts might feel differently in 10 years. I think with some distance, you might realize how toxic this behavior is.

I have a MS daughter with whom I talked about social development as an important part of MS. I also told her it's so important because some adults never matured beyond this point. Your post is a PERFECT example. We had some similar examples at work but not as cutting as yours. I'm so glad I'm working in the international section of our business where I only see my colleagues in 3D a couple times a year. Literally the only social media we talk about are fitbit stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to be part of a social group where people posted stuff like this a lot. I met them through my job, which had an extremely social culture and there was a lot of pressure to hang out outside work. People were mostly late 20s/early 30s.

Not just girls nights and bbq’s (though also those) but almost any outing. They’d go shopping with a couple friends and post photos of themselves in the dressing room (#shopshopshop #mirrorpics #howdoilook). They’d go to a movie and post a photo of themselves sitting in the movie theater before the movie started (#popcorntime #welovedanielcraig). I had been an occasional Facebook user before this but being part of this crew sucked me in— I was scrolling my feed multiple times a day. I started posting more. Probably less than some people because I hate how I look in photos so I’m just much less likely to want to take and post a random photo. But way more than before.

Here’s what I learned during my time with this group of friends:

1. This kind of social media use causes drama. Full stop. There were ALWAYS people who felt left out or hurt. I think it also drove insecurity. This was the most insecure group of people I’ve ever been around, and I include myself. It was worse than middles school or high school (pre social media).

2. It reinforces social hierarchies. The people who post the most are the people who can do the most things. Meaning: people with more money, more time, better access to things that will look cool in a photo (nice house, cool work travel, etc). Their posts drive attention, and thus popularity. This was the most high school thing about it. And yes, of course, being photogenic in a friend group that posts every single photo to socials is a big boon.

3. People 100% used it to hurt people or assert dominance. An anecdote: there was a work-related disagreement between two women. The night after it happened, one of them invited two key senior staffers to her house to hang out, then posted the photos of them all drinking wine and laughing to Facebook. The senior staffers were not even aware of the disagreement at the time, but it was obvious to those of us who did know that this was a calculated move to show she had certain people in her corner. There was a lot of behavior like this (see not about drama/insecurity above).

It wasn’t until I moved on from that job that I realized how toxic this all is. I know it’s an extreme example, but it really revealed to me how messed up this behavior is. It destroys relationships, puts people on edge.

I have since quit Facebook, and post to Instagram maybe 6 times a year, generally so relatives and far away friends can see pics of my kid growing up. My account is private and I removed most of the people from that part of my life from my followers, not out if malice, but because I don’t want that kind of behavior in my life anymore.

You can, of course, do what you want. But I think many of you who post everything to social media and don’t care who it hurts might feel differently in 10 years. I think with some distance, you might realize how toxic this behavior is.

Just wanted to thank you for this thought-provoking post, PP.

Not really. This all sounds like young women pre-kids, still stuck in high school/sorority behavior.

Fast forward a decade when there is a spouse, a few kids to care for, a house to manage/clean, a job to work, aging parents... most adult women do not have the time or energy for this and certainly aren't sitting around analyzing and stewing over the social dynamic of their friendships, the perceived friendships of others, what people are posting are certainly on social media. I'm not and none of my friends do anything close to this, that I'm aware of. But apparently you all exist.

NP here- in my old workplace the women who marry and take care of children stop rising the corporate ladder at the this point because they can't keep up socially. The men start cheating on their spouses at this point. Then when the men are in their 40s, likely their wives divorce them, and they buy a porche or equivalent midlife crisis car. This isn't uncommon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can these cliques possibly be affecting you? My kids go to their schools, not me. I drop them off, I go to work. The other parents are non factors, I do not see them. What are you doing that other kids’ parents are a daily issue in your life?

I don’t have an issue with a mom clique but my sense is that it’s an issue for SAHMs (for whom other SAHMs are like colleagues, so this would be like being isolated at work) and people with very young kids who are in the jointly-supervised play date phase.

This exactly. I felt this sort of exclusion as a SAHM. Now that I work I don't care. But being a SAHM without mom friends is extremely isolating and difficult. I was once part of a group of 6-7 moms that met regularly. We'd rotate homes, and people would bring their babies/toddlers. It made SAHMing bearable. At some point, 3 of the women decided to ditch the group and started meeting with just the 3 of them. Which is fine--they decided they had more in common with each other, smaller meetups are less messy, etc. But they posted photos of every one of these small meetups on facebook (which is also where the larger group planned meetups). It was definitely a big screw you to the rest of us, whereas they could have just silently stopped joining the larger group and met with each other without hurting feelings. My feelings were hurt, but I got over it. I know one of the other moms who was excluded has Aspergers, and this rejection was the beginning of a huge mental health spiral for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, curious what people think of this one:

I had a close friend who moved away. This was not an acquaintance -- it's someone I saw 1:1 regularly for years, who had come to my wedding, who was among the first group of people I told when I got pregnant.

Her family was still local, so she would come back to town with some frequency -- every 3-4 months. The first few times she came back, she'd let me know and we'd plan a coffee date or just a hang at my house or something. She reached out to me. I had a newish baby at the time so I was being a homebody, but was always happy to go meet up with her when she was around (with or without the baby, though she'd usually ask if the baby could come because she likes babies).

I still don't really know why, but she stopped reaching out when she'd come to town. Maybe she outgrew me as a friend, maybe she decided she was bored with my new mom status, I don't know. All I know is she stopped letting me know when she was going to be in town, and stopped making an effort to see me.

How do I know this? Because every time she'd come to town, she'd post like 14 photos of her trip to Facebook -- pictures of her with people I knew, going places near my house, doing things I definitely used to do with her. She'd post comments like "So good to see my [city name] fam when I'm in town! Love you all!"

Seeing these photos felt like being punched in the gut. They caused literal pain for me. I did reach out to her after the first time it happened, just a quick text of "hey, sorry I missed you when you were town, hope everything is going well and would love to catch up over phone/text sometime!" Like really trying to avoid sounding upset or jealous even though I was. She gave me a noncommittal response ("oh yeah, crazy busy trip sorry we couldn't connect, will definitely call soon!!") but then didn't call. I took the hint and let it go.

But still, she kept posting those photos every time she was in town, and it hurt so much. I wasn't mad that she was having fun. I was deeply hurt that she seemed to have prioritized maintaining friendships with so many other people in town, but for some reason not me. And it wasn't because I had a kid -- she'd posted photos with other friends and their kids.

Obviously I eventually just muted her so I wouldn't have to see it. But those photos were brutal. And yes, it made it much, much worse than if she'd just done a fade out on me and I didn't even know she was still coming to town and what she was doing. Way worse. Knowing that she was regularly in town, in my neighborhood, and was just affirmatively choosing not to see me felt so intense. It honestly did feel hostile.

She could have done all the exact same things but not posted the photos, or even just blocked me from seeing them. Her choice to post them knowing I probably would see them felt intentionally hurtful.

I think this is the kind of thing people on this thread are talking about. I think in this situation, it's actually reasonable to say she should have not posted the photos, or posted them in a way that they wouldn't be visible to me. I don't really know what else I could have done on my end to prevent being impacted by them. It just felt like salt in a wound for no other reason than she just really wanted everyone (me included) to know what an amazing time she was having with other people.

For whatever reason, she wanted to post photos. I don’t think it was a personal attack on you. I also don’t think she needed to refrain bc you might see them. People have different friends and different relationships and they ebb and flow. Your relationship was/is fading whether she posted pictures or not. I wouldn’t take it personal. I don’t think she did anything wrong. Personally I wouldn’t have texted her at all. She didn’t reach out to you to say she was in town, so why text the “I saw you came into town” text? Few people stay close friends forever, especially after moving. You just have to let it go and work on your current friendships.

I get that you are giving me advice because I am the one posting this and not her. I didn't ask for advice, but okay. I have let the friendship go, as I said -- after she blew me off again, I didn't reach out again and we have not spoken since. It's been years.

I don't think the photos were a personal attack, but it's also kind of crazy to me that it wouldn't even cross her mind that posting them might come off as rude to me. Even though she wasn't reaching out to hang out in person with me anymore, we were still connected on Facebook and she was even regularly liking photos I posted and commenting on them. So while I wouldn't expect to be perfectly top of mind, it's just nuts that she wouldn't think "oh hey, my friend I'm fading on is going to see this on Facebook and this restaurant is literally two blocks from her house -- maybe it would be weird to post these photos, or maybe I should at a minimum not gush about how happy I am to see 'all my favorite people' in this town."

It's honestly just weird to me that you could be close to someone for a long time and not at least think that posting those pictures was unnecessarily hurtful. No one *needs* to see a dozen photos of your weekend, and no one really needs to post them. If posting them is going to make someone you at least recently cared about feel awful, and not posting them is just going to mean slightly fewer likes, it feels like the kinder choice is to not post.

I just can't imagine doing this. I really think I'd pause, remember that it might hurt someone, and just choose not to post those specific photos. It really did seem callous of her, whether it was an intentional insult or just her being really obtuse.

You literally posted, “I’m curious what people think of this,” before your diatribe.

She isn’t going to specifically think of *you* when posting photos to her social media account. She just isn’t. You are one person. It isnt possible to see everyone you know when you make a visit from out of town. She chose not to see you, but that doesn’t mean she needs to conceal that she was ever in town

"Conceal" =/= refrain from posting photos of everything you did while in town.

I feel like some folks view posting every single thing they do to social media as some kind of inalienable right. Which, fine, it's not illegal nor is anyone suggesting it should be. But lots of really rude, obnoxious things are not illegal, and yet people refrain from doing them because they are rude and obnoxious.

I mean, it's my right to loudly announce that I'm inviting everyone in the office out to lunch except for the one woman in accounting I don't like. Sorry not sorry, Cheryl. It's my right to walk up to strangers on the street and tell them their clothes are ill-fitting and unflattering. It's my right to start a neighborhood block party tradition but refuse to invite the two families I think are kind of weird even though one of them lives right next door. You can't stop me! I might even enjoy doing these things, because Cheryl sucks, a lot of people wear awful clothes, and straight up, that family is weird, they give me the heebie-jeebies.

But I won't because I am not rude. You all can "buuuutu whyyyyyy do you eeeeeven caaaaaaare?????" until the cows come home, but I'm not going to change my mind that posting photos of stuff like this is unnecessarily rude and therefore people just should not do it. Sorry not sorry again, Cheryl.

Actually you are rude. I dont think you can hide it if you wanted to becaue its intrinsic to who you are.... a rude catty person. I feel sorry for Cheryl. And just because it's your "right" and it's not "illegal" doesn't mean these behaviors are those of emotionally stable healthy person. You show your colors with every post, every lunch invite, every gossip, etc...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, curious what people think of this one:

I had a close friend who moved away. This was not an acquaintance -- it's someone I saw 1:1 regularly for years, who had come to my wedding, who was among the first group of people I told when I got pregnant.

Her family was still local, so she would come back to town with some frequency -- every 3-4 months. The first few times she came back, she'd let me know and we'd plan a coffee date or just a hang at my house or something. She reached out to me. I had a newish baby at the time so I was being a homebody, but was always happy to go meet up with her when she was around (with or without the baby, though she'd usually ask if the baby could come because she likes babies).

I still don't really know why, but she stopped reaching out when she'd come to town. Maybe she outgrew me as a friend, maybe she decided she was bored with my new mom status, I don't know. All I know is she stopped letting me know when she was going to be in town, and stopped making an effort to see me.

How do I know this? Because every time she'd come to town, she'd post like 14 photos of her trip to Facebook -- pictures of her with people I knew, going places near my house, doing things I definitely used to do with her. She'd post comments like "So good to see my [city name] fam when I'm in town! Love you all!"

Seeing these photos felt like being punched in the gut. They caused literal pain for me. I did reach out to her after the first time it happened, just a quick text of "hey, sorry I missed you when you were town, hope everything is going well and would love to catch up over phone/text sometime!" Like really trying to avoid sounding upset or jealous even though I was. She gave me a noncommittal response ("oh yeah, crazy busy trip sorry we couldn't connect, will definitely call soon!!") but then didn't call. I took the hint and let it go.

But still, she kept posting those photos every time she was in town, and it hurt so much. I wasn't mad that she was having fun. I was deeply hurt that she seemed to have prioritized maintaining friendships with so many other people in town, but for some reason not me. And it wasn't because I had a kid -- she'd posted photos with other friends and their kids.

Obviously I eventually just muted her so I wouldn't have to see it. But those photos were brutal. And yes, it made it much, much worse than if she'd just done a fade out on me and I didn't even know she was still coming to town and what she was doing. Way worse. Knowing that she was regularly in town, in my neighborhood, and was just affirmatively choosing not to see me felt so intense. It honestly did feel hostile.

She could have done all the exact same things but not posted the photos, or even just blocked me from seeing them. Her choice to post them knowing I probably would see them felt intentionally hurtful.

I think this is the kind of thing people on this thread are talking about. I think in this situation, it's actually reasonable to say she should have not posted the photos, or posted them in a way that they wouldn't be visible to me. I don't really know what else I could have done on my end to prevent being impacted by them. It just felt like salt in a wound for no other reason than she just really wanted everyone (me included) to know what an amazing time she was having with other people.

For whatever reason, she wanted to post photos. I don’t think it was a personal attack on you. I also don’t think she needed to refrain bc you might see them. People have different friends and different relationships and they ebb and flow. Your relationship was/is fading whether she posted pictures or not. I wouldn’t take it personal. I don’t think she did anything wrong. Personally I wouldn’t have texted her at all. She didn’t reach out to you to say she was in town, so why text the “I saw you came into town” text? Few people stay close friends forever, especially after moving. You just have to let it go and work on your current friendships.

I get that you are giving me advice because I am the one posting this and not her. I didn't ask for advice, but okay. I have let the friendship go, as I said -- after she blew me off again, I didn't reach out again and we have not spoken since. It's been years.

I don't think the photos were a personal attack, but it's also kind of crazy to me that it wouldn't even cross her mind that posting them might come off as rude to me. Even though she wasn't reaching out to hang out in person with me anymore, we were still connected on Facebook and she was even regularly liking photos I posted and commenting on them. So while I wouldn't expect to be perfectly top of mind, it's just nuts that she wouldn't think "oh hey, my friend I'm fading on is going to see this on Facebook and this restaurant is literally two blocks from her house -- maybe it would be weird to post these photos, or maybe I should at a minimum not gush about how happy I am to see 'all my favorite people' in this town."

It's honestly just weird to me that you could be close to someone for a long time and not at least think that posting those pictures was unnecessarily hurtful. No one *needs* to see a dozen photos of your weekend, and no one really needs to post them. If posting them is going to make someone you at least recently cared about feel awful, and not posting them is just going to mean slightly fewer likes, it feels like the kinder choice is to not post.

I just can't imagine doing this. I really think I'd pause, remember that it might hurt someone, and just choose not to post those specific photos. It really did seem callous of her, whether it was an intentional insult or just her being really obtuse.

DP, who thinks your hurt response was entirely normal and human, and also that you handled the situation as best you could, from your initial follow up text to letting the friendship go. What else can you do? I’m sorry you had to go through that.

I think this thread is evidence that there are people who either don’t realize how hurtful this behavior can be or who do realize it and don’t care. Frankly, most people who post so much of their social lives online are incredibly self-absorbed, IME, which is a friendship deal-breaker. I was on FB for years; the women with whom I’m closest are, too, but to a one, post these kinds of pictures rarely, if ever. I got off FB for various reasons, and don’t miss it.

Social media can be used to connect people in ways that aren’t painful. Unfortunately, this kind of social competition is a big part of the reason it’s so popular and so hard to quit, I think.

+1, a fair summation of the thread and the issue.

Glad you've found people who share your values, PP.

Another fair summation of the thread is that some people feel unnecessarily threatened or targeted by things that just really aren't about them. Someone could get offended by literally anything you post. The solution isn't to stop posting but to not look at things that upset you on the internet. That's the only thing you can control. You can cry that whatever is rude and someone else can cry about the tackiness of your posts about food or how it's rude to flaunt your wealth in your posts. There have been tons of people here who are incredibly sanctimonious about their social media usage as though the things THEY post are the right things and no one should be mad about it, but christ. It's social-f'n-media. It's literally meant to be used the way people are using it. If you can't handle it, scroll on by instead of throwing a fit that Becky has fun drinking wine with friends and you wanted to do it too.

You're right that the only way out is to make real friends not virtual ones on social media. If you don't like where it goes get off social media. Becky should be able to drink wine with her friends if she wants, but she should understand the consequences of her actions when she posts. Maybe people's feelings will be hurt. If she's polite she'll do it in a tactful way.

[Anonymous]

This thread will go on forever because both sides are stubbornly correct or stubbornly incorrect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, curious what people think of this one:

I had a close friend who moved away. This was not an acquaintance -- it's someone I saw 1:1 regularly for years, who had come to my wedding, who was among the first group of people I told when I got pregnant.

Her family was still local, so she would come back to town with some frequency -- every 3-4 months. The first few times she came back, she'd let me know and we'd plan a coffee date or just a hang at my house or something. She reached out to me. I had a newish baby at the time so I was being a homebody, but was always happy to go meet up with her when she was around (with or without the baby, though she'd usually ask if the baby could come because she likes babies).

I still don't really know why, but she stopped reaching out when she'd come to town. Maybe she outgrew me as a friend, maybe she decided she was bored with my new mom status, I don't know. All I know is she stopped letting me know when she was going to be in town, and stopped making an effort to see me.

How do I know this? Because every time she'd come to town, she'd post like 14 photos of her trip to Facebook -- pictures of her with people I knew, going places near my house, doing things I definitely used to do with her. She'd post comments like "So good to see my [city name] fam when I'm in town! Love you all!"

Seeing these photos felt like being punched in the gut. They caused literal pain for me. I did reach out to her after the first time it happened, just a quick text of "hey, sorry I missed you when you were town, hope everything is going well and would love to catch up over phone/text sometime!" Like really trying to avoid sounding upset or jealous even though I was. She gave me a noncommittal response ("oh yeah, crazy busy trip sorry we couldn't connect, will definitely call soon!!") but then didn't call. I took the hint and let it go.

But still, she kept posting those photos every time she was in town, and it hurt so much. I wasn't mad that she was having fun. I was deeply hurt that she seemed to have prioritized maintaining friendships with so many other people in town, but for some reason not me. And it wasn't because I had a kid -- she'd posted photos with other friends and their kids.

Obviously I eventually just muted her so I wouldn't have to see it. But those photos were brutal. And yes, it made it much, much worse than if she'd just done a fade out on me and I didn't even know she was still coming to town and what she was doing. Way worse. Knowing that she was regularly in town, in my neighborhood, and was just affirmatively choosing not to see me felt so intense. It honestly did feel hostile.

She could have done all the exact same things but not posted the photos, or even just blocked me from seeing them. Her choice to post them knowing I probably would see them felt intentionally hurtful.

I think this is the kind of thing people on this thread are talking about. I think in this situation, it's actually reasonable to say she should have not posted the photos, or posted them in a way that they wouldn't be visible to me. I don't really know what else I could have done on my end to prevent being impacted by them. It just felt like salt in a wound for no other reason than she just really wanted everyone (me included) to know what an amazing time she was having with other people.

For whatever reason, she wanted to post photos. I don’t think it was a personal attack on you. I also don’t think she needed to refrain bc you might see them. People have different friends and different relationships and they ebb and flow. Your relationship was/is fading whether she posted pictures or not. I wouldn’t take it personal. I don’t think she did anything wrong. Personally I wouldn’t have texted her at all. She didn’t reach out to you to say she was in town, so why text the “I saw you came into town” text? Few people stay close friends forever, especially after moving. You just have to let it go and work on your current friendships.

I get that you are giving me advice because I am the one posting this and not her. I didn't ask for advice, but okay. I have let the friendship go, as I said -- after she blew me off again, I didn't reach out again and we have not spoken since. It's been years.

I don't think the photos were a personal attack, but it's also kind of crazy to me that it wouldn't even cross her mind that posting them might come off as rude to me. Even though she wasn't reaching out to hang out in person with me anymore, we were still connected on Facebook and she was even regularly liking photos I posted and commenting on them. So while I wouldn't expect to be perfectly top of mind, it's just nuts that she wouldn't think "oh hey, my friend I'm fading on is going to see this on Facebook and this restaurant is literally two blocks from her house -- maybe it would be weird to post these photos, or maybe I should at a minimum not gush about how happy I am to see 'all my favorite people' in this town."

It's honestly just weird to me that you could be close to someone for a long time and not at least think that posting those pictures was unnecessarily hurtful. No one *needs* to see a dozen photos of your weekend, and no one really needs to post them. If posting them is going to make someone you at least recently cared about feel awful, and not posting them is just going to mean slightly fewer likes, it feels like the kinder choice is to not post.

I just can't imagine doing this. I really think I'd pause, remember that it might hurt someone, and just choose not to post those specific photos. It really did seem callous of her, whether it was an intentional insult or just her being really obtuse.

DP, who thinks your hurt response was entirely normal and human, and also that you handled the situation as best you could, from your initial follow up text to letting the friendship go. What else can you do? I’m sorry you had to go through that.

I think this thread is evidence that there are people who either don’t realize how hurtful this behavior can be or who do realize it and don’t care. Frankly, most people who post so much of their social lives online are incredibly self-absorbed, IME, which is a friendship deal-breaker. I was on FB for years; the women with whom I’m closest are, too, but to a one, post these kinds of pictures rarely, if ever. I got off FB for various reasons, and don’t miss it.

Social media can be used to connect people in ways that aren’t painful. Unfortunately, this kind of social competition is a big part of the reason it’s so popular and so hard to quit, I think.

+1, a fair summation of the thread and the issue.

Glad you've found people who share your values, PP.

Another fair summation of the thread is that some people feel unnecessarily threatened or targeted by things that just really aren't about them. Someone could get offended by literally anything you post. The solution isn't to stop posting but to not look at things that upset you on the internet. That's the only thing you can control. You can cry that whatever is rude and someone else can cry about the tackiness of your posts about food or how it's rude to flaunt your wealth in your posts. There have been tons of people here who are incredibly sanctimonious about their social media usage as though the things THEY post are the right things and no one should be mad about it, but christ. It's social-f'n-media. It's literally meant to be used the way people are using it. If you can't handle it, scroll on by instead of throwing a fit that Becky has fun drinking wine with friends and you wanted to do it too.

How self-absorbed does one have to be to see someone else’s post or photo and make it about you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, curious what people think of this one:

I had a close friend who moved away. This was not an acquaintance -- it's someone I saw 1:1 regularly for years, who had come to my wedding, who was among the first group of people I told when I got pregnant.

Her family was still local, so she would come back to town with some frequency -- every 3-4 months. The first few times she came back, she'd let me know and we'd plan a coffee date or just a hang at my house or something. She reached out to me. I had a newish baby at the time so I was being a homebody, but was always happy to go meet up with her when she was around (with or without the baby, though she'd usually ask if the baby could come because she likes babies).

I still don't really know why, but she stopped reaching out when she'd come to town. Maybe she outgrew me as a friend, maybe she decided she was bored with my new mom status, I don't know. All I know is she stopped letting me know when she was going to be in town, and stopped making an effort to see me.

How do I know this? Because every time she'd come to town, she'd post like 14 photos of her trip to Facebook -- pictures of her with people I knew, going places near my house, doing things I definitely used to do with her. She'd post comments like "So good to see my [city name] fam when I'm in town! Love you all!"

Seeing these photos felt like being punched in the gut. They caused literal pain for me. I did reach out to her after the first time it happened, just a quick text of "hey, sorry I missed you when you were town, hope everything is going well and would love to catch up over phone/text sometime!" Like really trying to avoid sounding upset or jealous even though I was. She gave me a noncommittal response ("oh yeah, crazy busy trip sorry we couldn't connect, will definitely call soon!!") but then didn't call. I took the hint and let it go.

But still, she kept posting those photos every time she was in town, and it hurt so much. I wasn't mad that she was having fun. I was deeply hurt that she seemed to have prioritized maintaining friendships with so many other people in town, but for some reason not me. And it wasn't because I had a kid -- she'd posted photos with other friends and their kids.

Obviously I eventually just muted her so I wouldn't have to see it. But those photos were brutal. And yes, it made it much, much worse than if she'd just done a fade out on me and I didn't even know she was still coming to town and what she was doing. Way worse. Knowing that she was regularly in town, in my neighborhood, and was just affirmatively choosing not to see me felt so intense. It honestly did feel hostile.

She could have done all the exact same things but not posted the photos, or even just blocked me from seeing them. Her choice to post them knowing I probably would see them felt intentionally hurtful.

I think this is the kind of thing people on this thread are talking about. I think in this situation, it's actually reasonable to say she should have not posted the photos, or posted them in a way that they wouldn't be visible to me. I don't really know what else I could have done on my end to prevent being impacted by them. It just felt like salt in a wound for no other reason than she just really wanted everyone (me included) to know what an amazing time she was having with other people.

For whatever reason, she wanted to post photos. I don’t think it was a personal attack on you. I also don’t think she needed to refrain bc you might see them. People have different friends and different relationships and they ebb and flow. Your relationship was/is fading whether she posted pictures or not. I wouldn’t take it personal. I don’t think she did anything wrong. Personally I wouldn’t have texted her at all. She didn’t reach out to you to say she was in town, so why text the “I saw you came into town” text? Few people stay close friends forever, especially after moving. You just have to let it go and work on your current friendships.

I get that you are giving me advice because I am the one posting this and not her. I didn't ask for advice, but okay. I have let the friendship go, as I said -- after she blew me off again, I didn't reach out again and we have not spoken since. It's been years.

I don't think the photos were a personal attack, but it's also kind of crazy to me that it wouldn't even cross her mind that posting them might come off as rude to me. Even though she wasn't reaching out to hang out in person with me anymore, we were still connected on Facebook and she was even regularly liking photos I posted and commenting on them. So while I wouldn't expect to be perfectly top of mind, it's just nuts that she wouldn't think "oh hey, my friend I'm fading on is going to see this on Facebook and this restaurant is literally two blocks from her house -- maybe it would be weird to post these photos, or maybe I should at a minimum not gush about how happy I am to see 'all my favorite people' in this town."

It's honestly just weird to me that you could be close to someone for a long time and not at least think that posting those pictures was unnecessarily hurtful. No one *needs* to see a dozen photos of your weekend, and no one really needs to post them. If posting them is going to make someone you at least recently cared about feel awful, and not posting them is just going to mean slightly fewer likes, it feels like the kinder choice is to not post.

I just can't imagine doing this. I really think I'd pause, remember that it might hurt someone, and just choose not to post those specific photos. It really did seem callous of her, whether it was an intentional insult or just her being really obtuse.

DP, who thinks your hurt response was entirely normal and human, and also that you handled the situation as best you could, from your initial follow up text to letting the friendship go. What else can you do? I’m sorry you had to go through that.

I think this thread is evidence that there are people who either don’t realize how hurtful this behavior can be or who do realize it and don’t care. Frankly, most people who post so much of their social lives online are incredibly self-absorbed, IME, which is a friendship deal-breaker. I was on FB for years; the women with whom I’m closest are, too, but to a one, post these kinds of pictures rarely, if ever. I got off FB for various reasons, and don’t miss it.

Social media can be used to connect people in ways that aren’t painful. Unfortunately, this kind of social competition is a big part of the reason it’s so popular and so hard to quit, I think.

+1, a fair summation of the thread and the issue.

Glad you've found people who share your values, PP.

Another fair summation of the thread is that some people feel unnecessarily threatened or targeted by things that just really aren't about them. Someone could get offended by literally anything you post. The solution isn't to stop posting but to not look at things that upset you on the internet. That's the only thing you can control. You can cry that whatever is rude and someone else can cry about the tackiness of your posts about food or how it's rude to flaunt your wealth in your posts. There have been tons of people here who are incredibly sanctimonious about their social media usage as though the things THEY post are the right things and no one should be mad about it, but christ. It's social-f'n-media. It's literally meant to be used the way people are using it. If you can't handle it, scroll on by instead of throwing a fit that Becky has fun drinking wine with friends and you wanted to do it too.

I’m the PP who was being quoted, and, again, you’re misrepresenting the issue. This thread is actually about a very specific, discrete behavior in which some women engage, and which more than a few women find insensitive. Pretending that it’s about “literally anything you post” is disingenuous.

You’re right that social media companies want people to use their platforms as social currency. Therein lies the problem. Your crack about people who “can’t handle it” reflects poorly on you, not on people who don’t like being excluded.

Learn to read. I said all posts could be offensive to someone. There are people here who literally were like "well I don't post THOSE types of photos. Instead here's what I post..." as though they were better or the objectively right things to post. The women who find other people's posts offensive and keep looking at them are just hurting themselves. Completely fragile. I mean, we have multiple people here who see other people's posts and literally think the posts were meant to hurt them, specifically. People were frothing to the level of calling people "whores" or "unhinged" for posting photos of social events they weren't invited to. That's a level of feeling persecuted and self-victimization that's pathological.

Ok, you’re my friend IRL

I’m going to have a huge ladies night out with 15 people in my backyard and deck. I’m going to post it. Hope you’re happy for me! You are not invited, still hope you are happy I had a good time.

I will do it next week and the week after.

I will talk to you and be friends with you.

But you’ll never come to my party and I will post it weekly.

If you are doing this, you are not my friend IRL whether you post it or not, and I am going to drop you pronto.

See, it's not the social media that's the issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes they are everywhere. Just do your best to focus on other areas as best you can, and be friendly to all.

(And yes, it sucks. I'm frequently the one on the outside, despite being involved in lots of activities with all of them.)

OP here - this is me. I know them, our kids are friends, I just don't live in the cool neighborhood, so I am not one of them, nor will I ever be.

15:29 here - I actually live in the "cool" neighborhood and am still excluded. I saw on FB that the neighborhood moms hosted a baby shower for another neighborhood mom. Yep, not invited and didn't know about it - despite knowing most everyone. Yes, it sucks.

Whatever you do, DON'T send a gift. Don't be a doormat. They expect you to still do this. Show them you aren't that pressed to be part of their crowd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if your "friends" are not really your "friends", why don't you just organize your own group? This is where all of these complaints lose me.

Yes, if the women in your immediate social circle and area exclude you or seem to treat you like you don’t belong, just go to the friend store and pick up a pack of friends. Easy peasy. I don’t understand why more people don’t try this.

Strange, your mom didn't teach you that you can't force someone to be your friend?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seriously considering moving to a different school because of the MOMS. Ugh.

I will say this is a *white* mom thing. Ive lived many places and can say it with certainty.