Gaza war and College Campus Protests

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is only PP here who is keeping this thread alive with insane Hamas support and hatred toward Jews. I implore all to stop posting here again. I will now take my advice, lest I call the FBI on this terrorist.

Weaponizing the state because you have a political disagreement on an anonymous online forum?

Really?

You talk like a terrorist, and you shout and threaten here; we are just preserving the safety of our people from terrorists like you. You told another pp to eff... and you added, "That is not a suggestion.

[Anonymous]

I do not recall a single hostage-taking where Israelis demanded terms. Do you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is that Iran wants one of their proxies in charge of Palestine - Hamas or Hezbollah. And Iran is who is organizing these pro-Palestine protests. There aren't any strong pro-Palestine voices out there pushing back on the Iranian agenda.

It’s difficult to take your claim seriously. Those who share that view continue to press propaganda like this and refuse to accept that the only way that could even possibly be true is if Israel’s relentless campaign to deprive the Palestinians of hope for freedom and a future has led them right into the arms of Iran (or whatever boogeyman du jour).

And if the latter is true, why are we not talking about accountability in Israel for creating and mercilessly persisting with the conditions that led us to this point, where a country 1,500 miles away is able to establish influence as a counter-balance to the oppression model?

I don't care about your incredulity about "my claim" about Iran - it's not my claim, it's widely known. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/iranian-government-actors-seeking-advantage-pro-palestinian-protests/story?id=111786372 Take your incredulity and complaints elsewhere, they go nowhere with me.

And regarding the latter, you aren't exactly refuting me and are in fact justifying Iran's involvement and meddling. You also haven't refuted my argument that there aren't any strong pro-Palestine voices among the protesters strongly condemning and rejecting Hamas and Hezbollah (and in terms as strong as the ones they use against Israel) and proposing a genuinely new and different leadership direction or regime for Palestine.

So you still haven't even remotely made the case that anything I said is somehow "dishonest" or "despicable" or "slanderous" or "propaganda."

The Palestinians live in concentration camps. It’s completely dishonest to pretend that there’s such a thing as “leadership” in this camps. There’s no entry or exit without Israel’s control. There no access to sea or air.

What are you even talking about?

Sure, I’ll join you in emphatically calling for new leadership in Gaza. Now what? Are you pathetically trying to condition throttling back the murder of civilians on this false premise that such a shared goal (new “leadership” in what amounts to a prison or concentration camp) is achievable given how Israel has chosen to execute this conflict.

Do the new leaders in Gaza show up tomorrow morning to pick up their keys to the city (of rubble)?

Hamas runs the camps. Trying to say "there's no leadership" is complete nonsense.

Now go back and address the rest of the points? The fact that you're running away from answering the rest of them suggests you know the truth that Iran has its fingers deep in all of this. The fact that you can't point to any Palestinians outside of Palestine or anyone else who carries any weight with regard to new leadership tells me you are unprepared and unequipped to even be having any meaningful conversation whatsoever about the future of Palestinians.

All you seem to have is a bunch of attacks, only to retreat, dodge and weave when your attacks are confronted. It's really quite a fail on your part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is that Iran wants one of their proxies in charge of Palestine - Hamas or Hezbollah. And Iran is who is organizing these pro-Palestine protests. There aren't any strong pro-Palestine voices out there pushing back on the Iranian agenda.

It’s difficult to take your claim seriously. Those who share that view continue to press propaganda like this and refuse to accept that the only way that could even possibly be true is if Israel’s relentless campaign to deprive the Palestinians of hope for freedom and a future has led them right into the arms of Iran (or whatever boogeyman du jour).

And if the latter is true, why are we not talking about accountability in Israel for creating and mercilessly persisting with the conditions that led us to this point, where a country 1,500 miles away is able to establish influence as a counter-balance to the oppression model?

I don't care about your incredulity about "my claim" about Iran - it's not my claim, it's widely known. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/iranian-government-actors-seeking-advantage-pro-palestinian-protests/story?id=111786372 Take your incredulity and complaints elsewhere, they go nowhere with me.

And regarding the latter, you aren't exactly refuting me and are in fact justifying Iran's involvement and meddling. You also haven't refuted my argument that there aren't any strong pro-Palestine voices among the protesters strongly condemning and rejecting Hamas and Hezbollah (and in terms as strong as the ones they use against Israel) and proposing a genuinely new and different leadership direction or regime for Palestine.

So you still haven't even remotely made the case that anything I said is somehow "dishonest" or "despicable" or "slanderous" or "propaganda."

The Palestinians live in concentration camps. It’s completely dishonest to pretend that there’s such a thing as “leadership” in this camps. There’s no entry or exit without Israel’s control. There no access to sea or air.

What are you even talking about?

Sure, I’ll join you in emphatically calling for new leadership in Gaza. Now what? Are you pathetically trying to condition throttling back the murder of civilians on this false premise that such a shared goal (new “leadership” in what amounts to a prison or concentration camp) is achievable given how Israel has chosen to execute this conflict.

Do the new leaders in Gaza show up tomorrow morning to pick up their keys to the city (of rubble)?

Hamas runs the camps. Trying to say "there's no leadership" is complete nonsense.

Now go back and address the rest of the points? The fact that you're running away from answering the rest of them suggests you know the truth that Iran has its fingers deep in all of this. The fact that you can't point to any Palestinians outside of Palestine or anyone else who carries any weight with regard to new leadership tells me you are unprepared and unequipped to even be having any meaningful conversation whatsoever about the future of Palestinians.

All you seem to have is a bunch of attacks, only to retreat, dodge and weave when your attacks are confronted. It's really quite a fail on your part.

Boy, you got me, Bibi! I guess status quo and gradual genocide is the only solution here!

Oh wait, that was your plan all along! Fascinating how the conditions you established fit that agenda so perfectly!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is only PP here who is keeping this thread alive with insane Hamas support and hatred toward Jews. I implore all to stop posting here again. I will now take my advice, lest I call the FBI on this terrorist.

Weaponizing the state because you have a political disagreement on an anonymous online forum?

Really?

You talk like a terrorist, and you shout and threaten here; we are just preserving the safety of our people from terrorists like you. You told another pp to eff... and you added, "That is not a suggestion.

DP

Assuming you mean “murder others” when you say “preserving the safety of our people”?

Hold up, who’s the terrorist again?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain why these protesters weren't at the RNC? I honestly don't understand why they're protesting the DNC, but not Bibi's bestie Donald, who definitely doesn't care about Palestinians.

These are people who want “their party” to represent their interests. The leadership just expects everyone to shut up and fall in line. Things are changing.

They don't get to call the Democrats "their party" when they run around shrieking "Genocide Joe" and heckling Democrats during campaign events and so on. They have clearly taken a hateful, adversarial anti-Democrat position.

And don't even get me started on the fact that they are being organized and funded by Iran. To me, that means their political party is the IRGC, and it's clear they won't vote for Democrats - I don't recognize them as Democrats.

The Dems are a lot more than just Israel. You only care about Israel and enforcing your views on everyone else.

Yes, Dems are about a lot more than just Israel. But the pro-Palestine Progressive Left insists on tying all of those other issues to Palestine. It's not that MY only issue is Israel, it's that the goal of the pro-Palestinian movement is to make it impossible for me to be pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-climate science AND support democracy in the middle east and the rights of Jews not to be murdered through a global intifada.

The people showing up to every other issue with a Palestinian flag are the ones enforcing their views on everyone else.

So your choice vis-a-vis the Middle East is to oppose democracy because you believe that the alternative exposes Jews to a “global intifada” where murder will be the outcome for “all Jews”.

First of all, “global intifada” is bravado fiction conjured by powerless figures in an effort to make their fight for freedom and a future seem less hopeless, and capitalized upon by those depriving them of a hopeless future as “proof” that they were right all along to have done so.

It’s not real. The number of Jews killed by Arabs or Muslims across the globe in the past 100 years is less than 1/2 of 1% of the number of Arabs and Muslims killed by Jews across the globe in that same period of time. So who’s undertaking a campaign of extermination here on the first place?

Second, your statement says it all - I’m all for “democracy”, but only if I retain permanent, indivisible control. So, interpreting that through a handy dandy bullshit meter, it says here that you don’t actually give a F about democracy.

Bottom line: you’re a garden variety fascist who masquerades as an evolved human being motivated by the common good, but you really only care about taking care of your own interests.

At least own who you are …

I am a lot of things, but mainly, to you, I'm an internet stranger. Staying on our topic of conversation, I'll elaborate a little more about me:

I support the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state. Mainly because history has shown us over and over again that Jews will eventually be murdered everywhere else we try to live. Giving Palestinians Israeli citizenship would necessarily make it no longer a Jewish state, which I believe is the point you were making about democracy. I could have said I support our allies in the middle east, rather than democracy in the middle east, though Israel IS a democracy where its citizens vote in real elections (many, many of them over the past few years, if you've been paying attention). The issue of who is a citizen of Israel is a related, but separate thing. I'd love to see a two-state solution, though, admittedly, I don't know what that would look like given the current political climate in the region. Certainly, it seems highly unattainable with Bibi and Hamas in power and with continued settlement building in the West Bank.

As for the "global intifada" - I have always believed that words matter. It's one of the many things I don't like about Trump, that he and his apologists just insist that the things he says don't mean anything. The intifada calls for the worldwide murder of all Jewish people. We have a lot of words in every language, so if people DON'T want to call for the death of all Jews, then they should just string a different set of words together to say what they actually mean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain why these protesters weren't at the RNC? I honestly don't understand why they're protesting the DNC, but not Bibi's bestie Donald, who definitely doesn't care about Palestinians.

These are people who want “their party” to represent their interests. The leadership just expects everyone to shut up and fall in line. Things are changing.

They don't get to call the Democrats "their party" when they run around shrieking "Genocide Joe" and heckling Democrats during campaign events and so on. They have clearly taken a hateful, adversarial anti-Democrat position.

And don't even get me started on the fact that they are being organized and funded by Iran. To me, that means their political party is the IRGC, and it's clear they won't vote for Democrats - I don't recognize them as Democrats.

The Dems are a lot more than just Israel. You only care about Israel and enforcing your views on everyone else.

Yes, Dems are about a lot more than just Israel. But the pro-Palestine Progressive Left insists on tying all of those other issues to Palestine. It's not that MY only issue is Israel, it's that the goal of the pro-Palestinian movement is to make it impossible for me to be pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-climate science AND support democracy in the middle east and the rights of Jews not to be murdered through a global intifada.

The people showing up to every other issue with a Palestinian flag are the ones enforcing their views on everyone else.

So your choice vis-a-vis the Middle East is to oppose democracy because you believe that the alternative exposes Jews to a “global intifada” where murder will be the outcome for “all Jews”.

First of all, “global intifada” is bravado fiction conjured by powerless figures in an effort to make their fight for freedom and a future seem less hopeless, and capitalized upon by those depriving them of a hopeless future as “proof” that they were right all along to have done so.

It’s not real. The number of Jews killed by Arabs or Muslims across the globe in the past 100 years is less than 1/2 of 1% of the number of Arabs and Muslims killed by Jews across the globe in that same period of time. So who’s undertaking a campaign of extermination here on the first place?

Second, your statement says it all - I’m all for “democracy”, but only if I retain permanent, indivisible control. So, interpreting that through a handy dandy bullshit meter, it says here that you don’t actually give a F about democracy.

Bottom line: you’re a garden variety fascist who masquerades as an evolved human being motivated by the common good, but you really only care about taking care of your own interests.

At least own who you are …

I am a lot of things, but mainly, to you, I'm an internet stranger. Staying on our topic of conversation, I'll elaborate a little more about me:

I support the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state. Mainly because history has shown us over and over again that Jews will eventually be murdered everywhere else we try to live. Giving Palestinians Israeli citizenship would necessarily make it no longer a Jewish state, which I believe is the point you were making about democracy. I could have said I support our allies in the middle east, rather than democracy in the middle east, though Israel IS a democracy where its citizens vote in real elections (many, many of them over the past few years, if you've been paying attention). The issue of who is a citizen of Israel is a related, but separate thing. I'd love to see a two-state solution, though, admittedly, I don't know what that would look like given the current political climate in the region. Certainly, it seems highly unattainable with Bibi and Hamas in power and with continued settlement building in the West Bank.

As for the "global intifada" - I have always believed that words matter. It's one of the many things I don't like about Trump, that he and his apologists just insist that the things he says don't mean anything. The intifada calls for the worldwide murder of all Jewish people. We have a lot of words in every language, so if people DON'T want to call for the death of all Jews, then they should just string a different set of words together to say what they actually mean.

Not Jewish (really!), but I don’t have an objection to your views now, nor have I ever opposed the essence of how you describe your views. Progress, perhaps.

That agreement with your views, though, doesn’t nullify my additional view that the burden lies squarely on the State of Israel to make the next set of substantial concessions to move toward a resolution that we both know Bibi and probably 70 - 80% of Israelis adamantly oppose. So how does that bridge get crossed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is that Iran wants one of their proxies in charge of Palestine - Hamas or Hezbollah. And Iran is who is organizing these pro-Palestine protests. There aren't any strong pro-Palestine voices out there pushing back on the Iranian agenda.

It’s difficult to take your claim seriously. Those who share that view continue to press propaganda like this and refuse to accept that the only way that could even possibly be true is if Israel’s relentless campaign to deprive the Palestinians of hope for freedom and a future has led them right into the arms of Iran (or whatever boogeyman du jour).

And if the latter is true, why are we not talking about accountability in Israel for creating and mercilessly persisting with the conditions that led us to this point, where a country 1,500 miles away is able to establish influence as a counter-balance to the oppression model?

I don't care about your incredulity about "my claim" about Iran - it's not my claim, it's widely known. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/iranian-government-actors-seeking-advantage-pro-palestinian-protests/story?id=111786372 Take your incredulity and complaints elsewhere, they go nowhere with me.

And regarding the latter, you aren't exactly refuting me and are in fact justifying Iran's involvement and meddling. You also haven't refuted my argument that there aren't any strong pro-Palestine voices among the protesters strongly condemning and rejecting Hamas and Hezbollah (and in terms as strong as the ones they use against Israel) and proposing a genuinely new and different leadership direction or regime for Palestine.

So you still haven't even remotely made the case that anything I said is somehow "dishonest" or "despicable" or "slanderous" or "propaganda."

The Palestinians live in concentration camps. It’s completely dishonest to pretend that there’s such a thing as “leadership” in this camps. There’s no entry or exit without Israel’s control. There no access to sea or air.

What are you even talking about?

Sure, I’ll join you in emphatically calling for new leadership in Gaza. Now what? Are you pathetically trying to condition throttling back the murder of civilians on this false premise that such a shared goal (new “leadership” in what amounts to a prison or concentration camp) is achievable given how Israel has chosen to execute this conflict.

Do the new leaders in Gaza show up tomorrow morning to pick up their keys to the city (of rubble)?

Hamas runs the camps. Trying to say "there's no leadership" is complete nonsense.

Now go back and address the rest of the points? The fact that you're running away from answering the rest of them suggests you know the truth that Iran has its fingers deep in all of this. The fact that you can't point to any Palestinians outside of Palestine or anyone else who carries any weight with regard to new leadership tells me you are unprepared and unequipped to even be having any meaningful conversation whatsoever about the future of Palestinians.

All you seem to have is a bunch of attacks, only to retreat, dodge and weave when your attacks are confronted. It's really quite a fail on your part.

Boy, you got me, Bibi! I guess status quo and gradual genocide is the only solution here!

Oh wait, that was your plan all along! Fascinating how the conditions you established fit that agenda so perfectly!

You're still dodging and weaving and are still unable to actually address or refute anything said.

So again, you still haven't even remotely made the case that anything I said is somehow "dishonest" or "despicable" or "slanderous" or "propaganda."

[Anonymous]

Because Western media outlets report something based on confidential sources in State, you think that renders something as “truth”? If that’s your finish line for evidence of “proof”, we’re on two different planets.

Unfortunately, the integrity of State and our political class is effectively non-existent. So yes, if you’re parroting reports that don’t provide you with irrefutable evidence, you’re spreading propaganda.

But please continue with your dueling piano bar approach of telling everyone that Israel is fighting a moral fight and an effective one, at that, but the other side is still growing in size and first Lebanon and now Iran are involved. What’s next Syria? How convenient!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain why these protesters weren't at the RNC? I honestly don't understand why they're protesting the DNC, but not Bibi's bestie Donald, who definitely doesn't care about Palestinians.

These are people who want “their party” to represent their interests. The leadership just expects everyone to shut up and fall in line. Things are changing.

They don't get to call the Democrats "their party" when they run around shrieking "Genocide Joe" and heckling Democrats during campaign events and so on. They have clearly taken a hateful, adversarial anti-Democrat position.

And don't even get me started on the fact that they are being organized and funded by Iran. To me, that means their political party is the IRGC, and it's clear they won't vote for Democrats - I don't recognize them as Democrats.

The Dems are a lot more than just Israel. You only care about Israel and enforcing your views on everyone else.

Yes, Dems are about a lot more than just Israel. But the pro-Palestine Progressive Left insists on tying all of those other issues to Palestine. It's not that MY only issue is Israel, it's that the goal of the pro-Palestinian movement is to make it impossible for me to be pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-climate science AND support democracy in the middle east and the rights of Jews not to be murdered through a global intifada.

The people showing up to every other issue with a Palestinian flag are the ones enforcing their views on everyone else.

So your choice vis-a-vis the Middle East is to oppose democracy because you believe that the alternative exposes Jews to a “global intifada” where murder will be the outcome for “all Jews”.

First of all, “global intifada” is bravado fiction conjured by powerless figures in an effort to make their fight for freedom and a future seem less hopeless, and capitalized upon by those depriving them of a hopeless future as “proof” that they were right all along to have done so.

It’s not real. The number of Jews killed by Arabs or Muslims across the globe in the past 100 years is less than 1/2 of 1% of the number of Arabs and Muslims killed by Jews across the globe in that same period of time. So who’s undertaking a campaign of extermination here on the first place?

Second, your statement says it all - I’m all for “democracy”, but only if I retain permanent, indivisible control. So, interpreting that through a handy dandy bullshit meter, it says here that you don’t actually give a F about democracy.

Bottom line: you’re a garden variety fascist who masquerades as an evolved human being motivated by the common good, but you really only care about taking care of your own interests.

At least own who you are …

I am a lot of things, but mainly, to you, I'm an internet stranger. Staying on our topic of conversation, I'll elaborate a little more about me:

I support the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state. Mainly because history has shown us over and over again that Jews will eventually be murdered everywhere else we try to live. Giving Palestinians Israeli citizenship would necessarily make it no longer a Jewish state, which I believe is the point you were making about democracy. I could have said I support our allies in the middle east, rather than democracy in the middle east, though Israel IS a democracy where its citizens vote in real elections (many, many of them over the past few years, if you've been paying attention). The issue of who is a citizen of Israel is a related, but separate thing. I'd love to see a two-state solution, though, admittedly, I don't know what that would look like given the current political climate in the region. Certainly, it seems highly unattainable with Bibi and Hamas in power and with continued settlement building in the West Bank.

As for the "global intifada" - I have always believed that words matter. It's one of the many things I don't like about Trump, that he and his apologists just insist that the things he says don't mean anything. The intifada calls for the worldwide murder of all Jewish people. We have a lot of words in every language, so if people DON'T want to call for the death of all Jews, then they should just string a different set of words together to say what they actually mean.

Not Jewish (really!), but I don’t have an objection to your views now, nor have I ever opposed the essence of how you describe your views. Progress, perhaps.

That agreement with your views, though, doesn’t nullify my additional view that the burden lies squarely on the State of Israel to make the next set of substantial concessions to move toward a resolution that we both know Bibi and probably 70 - 80% of Israelis adamantly oppose. So how does that bridge get crossed?

I honestly have no idea how the bridge gets crossed. I do know (and I recognize that this is anecdotal) that all of my Israeli friends in their 20s, 30s, and 40s think Bibi belongs in prison and are opposed to settlement expansion. They just want to live in peace and not get bombed. I think that, along with recent normalizing of relations with some of their neighbors, is a good sign overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain why these protesters weren't at the RNC? I honestly don't understand why they're protesting the DNC, but not Bibi's bestie Donald, who definitely doesn't care about Palestinians.

These are people who want “their party” to represent their interests. The leadership just expects everyone to shut up and fall in line. Things are changing.

They don't get to call the Democrats "their party" when they run around shrieking "Genocide Joe" and heckling Democrats during campaign events and so on. They have clearly taken a hateful, adversarial anti-Democrat position.

And don't even get me started on the fact that they are being organized and funded by Iran. To me, that means their political party is the IRGC, and it's clear they won't vote for Democrats - I don't recognize them as Democrats.

The Dems are a lot more than just Israel. You only care about Israel and enforcing your views on everyone else.

Yes, Dems are about a lot more than just Israel. But the pro-Palestine Progressive Left insists on tying all of those other issues to Palestine. It's not that MY only issue is Israel, it's that the goal of the pro-Palestinian movement is to make it impossible for me to be pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-climate science AND support democracy in the middle east and the rights of Jews not to be murdered through a global intifada.

The people showing up to every other issue with a Palestinian flag are the ones enforcing their views on everyone else.

So your choice vis-a-vis the Middle East is to oppose democracy because you believe that the alternative exposes Jews to a “global intifada” where murder will be the outcome for “all Jews”.

First of all, “global intifada” is bravado fiction conjured by powerless figures in an effort to make their fight for freedom and a future seem less hopeless, and capitalized upon by those depriving them of a hopeless future as “proof” that they were right all along to have done so.

It’s not real. The number of Jews killed by Arabs or Muslims across the globe in the past 100 years is less than 1/2 of 1% of the number of Arabs and Muslims killed by Jews across the globe in that same period of time. So who’s undertaking a campaign of extermination here on the first place?

Second, your statement says it all - I’m all for “democracy”, but only if I retain permanent, indivisible control. So, interpreting that through a handy dandy bullshit meter, it says here that you don’t actually give a F about democracy.

Bottom line: you’re a garden variety fascist who masquerades as an evolved human being motivated by the common good, but you really only care about taking care of your own interests.

At least own who you are …

I am a lot of things, but mainly, to you, I'm an internet stranger. Staying on our topic of conversation, I'll elaborate a little more about me:

I support the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state. Mainly because history has shown us over and over again that Jews will eventually be murdered everywhere else we try to live. Giving Palestinians Israeli citizenship would necessarily make it no longer a Jewish state, which I believe is the point you were making about democracy. I could have said I support our allies in the middle east, rather than democracy in the middle east, though Israel IS a democracy where its citizens vote in real elections (many, many of them over the past few years, if you've been paying attention). The issue of who is a citizen of Israel is a related, but separate thing. I'd love to see a two-state solution, though, admittedly, I don't know what that would look like given the current political climate in the region. Certainly, it seems highly unattainable with Bibi and Hamas in power and with continued settlement building in the West Bank.

As for the "global intifada" - I have always believed that words matter. It's one of the many things I don't like about Trump, that he and his apologists just insist that the things he says don't mean anything. The intifada calls for the worldwide murder of all Jewish people. We have a lot of words in every language, so if people DON'T want to call for the death of all Jews, then they should just string a different set of words together to say what they actually mean.

Not Jewish (really!), but I don’t have an objection to your views now, nor have I ever opposed the essence of how you describe your views. Progress, perhaps.

That agreement with your views, though, doesn’t nullify my additional view that the burden lies squarely on the State of Israel to make the next set of substantial concessions to move toward a resolution that we both know Bibi and probably 70 - 80% of Israelis adamantly oppose. So how does that bridge get crossed?

I honestly have no idea how the bridge gets crossed. I do know (and I recognize that this is anecdotal) that all of my Israeli friends in their 20s, 30s, and 40s think Bibi belongs in prison and are opposed to settlement expansion. They just want to live in peace and not get bombed. I think that, along with recent normalizing of relations with some of their neighbors, is a good sign overall.

DP there is no daylight between Bibi and Israelis. They want the same thing. Israel’s relationship with neighboring countries and countries in the region has taken many steps backward and is in crisis. Israelis want to annex the West Bank, kill Palestinians and destabilize all neighboring governments to create a free fire buffer zone. Israeli maps do not show the West Bank as separate from Israel.

Israelis just want to go back to where they were last year. Killing Palestinians, increasing settlements and not having to acknowledge what they’re doing while the US flips the bill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain why these protesters weren't at the RNC? I honestly don't understand why they're protesting the DNC, but not Bibi's bestie Donald, who definitely doesn't care about Palestinians.

These are people who want “their party” to represent their interests. The leadership just expects everyone to shut up and fall in line. Things are changing.

They don't get to call the Democrats "their party" when they run around shrieking "Genocide Joe" and heckling Democrats during campaign events and so on. They have clearly taken a hateful, adversarial anti-Democrat position.

And don't even get me started on the fact that they are being organized and funded by Iran. To me, that means their political party is the IRGC, and it's clear they won't vote for Democrats - I don't recognize them as Democrats.

The Dems are a lot more than just Israel. You only care about Israel and enforcing your views on everyone else.

Yes, Dems are about a lot more than just Israel. But the pro-Palestine Progressive Left insists on tying all of those other issues to Palestine. It's not that MY only issue is Israel, it's that the goal of the pro-Palestinian movement is to make it impossible for me to be pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-climate science AND support democracy in the middle east and the rights of Jews not to be murdered through a global intifada.

The people showing up to every other issue with a Palestinian flag are the ones enforcing their views on everyone else.

So your choice vis-a-vis the Middle East is to oppose democracy because you believe that the alternative exposes Jews to a “global intifada” where murder will be the outcome for “all Jews”.

First of all, “global intifada” is bravado fiction conjured by powerless figures in an effort to make their fight for freedom and a future seem less hopeless, and capitalized upon by those depriving them of a hopeless future as “proof” that they were right all along to have done so.

It’s not real. The number of Jews killed by Arabs or Muslims across the globe in the past 100 years is less than 1/2 of 1% of the number of Arabs and Muslims killed by Jews across the globe in that same period of time. So who’s undertaking a campaign of extermination here on the first place?

Second, your statement says it all - I’m all for “democracy”, but only if I retain permanent, indivisible control. So, interpreting that through a handy dandy bullshit meter, it says here that you don’t actually give a F about democracy.

Bottom line: you’re a garden variety fascist who masquerades as an evolved human being motivated by the common good, but you really only care about taking care of your own interests.

At least own who you are …

I am a lot of things, but mainly, to you, I'm an internet stranger. Staying on our topic of conversation, I'll elaborate a little more about me:

I support the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state. Mainly because history has shown us over and over again that Jews will eventually be murdered everywhere else we try to live. Giving Palestinians Israeli citizenship would necessarily make it no longer a Jewish state, which I believe is the point you were making about democracy. I could have said I support our allies in the middle east, rather than democracy in the middle east, though Israel IS a democracy where its citizens vote in real elections (many, many of them over the past few years, if you've been paying attention). The issue of who is a citizen of Israel is a related, but separate thing. I'd love to see a two-state solution, though, admittedly, I don't know what that would look like given the current political climate in the region. Certainly, it seems highly unattainable with Bibi and Hamas in power and with continued settlement building in the West Bank.

As for the "global intifada" - I have always believed that words matter. It's one of the many things I don't like about Trump, that he and his apologists just insist that the things he says don't mean anything. The intifada calls for the worldwide murder of all Jewish people. We have a lot of words in every language, so if people DON'T want to call for the death of all Jews, then they should just string a different set of words together to say what they actually mean.

Not Jewish (really!), but I don’t have an objection to your views now, nor have I ever opposed the essence of how you describe your views. Progress, perhaps.

That agreement with your views, though, doesn’t nullify my additional view that the burden lies squarely on the State of Israel to make the next set of substantial concessions to move toward a resolution that we both know Bibi and probably 70 - 80% of Israelis adamantly oppose. So how does that bridge get crossed?

I honestly have no idea how the bridge gets crossed. I do know (and I recognize that this is anecdotal) that all of my Israeli friends in their 20s, 30s, and 40s think Bibi belongs in prison and are opposed to settlement expansion. They just want to live in peace and not get bombed. I think that, along with recent normalizing of relations with some of their neighbors, is a good sign overall.

DP there is no daylight between Bibi and Israelis. They want the same thing. Israel’s relationship with neighboring countries and countries in the region has taken many steps backward and is in crisis. Israelis want to annex the West Bank, kill Palestinians and destabilize all neighboring governments to create a free fire buffer zone. Israeli maps do not show the West Bank as separate from Israel.

Israelis just want to go back to where they were last year. Killing Palestinians, increasing settlements and not having to acknowledge what they’re doing while the US flips the bill.

Funny how all Israelis are responsible for Bibi, but no Palestinians are not responsible for Hamas.

Despite Hamas being far more popular among Palestinians than Bibi is among Israelis.

Bit of a double standard, isn't it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The bottom line is that Iran wants one of their proxies in charge of Palestine - Hamas or Hezbollah. And Iran is who is organizing these pro-Palestine protests. There aren't any strong pro-Palestine voices out there pushing back on the Iranian agenda.

It’s difficult to take your claim seriously. Those who share that view continue to press propaganda like this and refuse to accept that the only way that could even possibly be true is if Israel’s relentless campaign to deprive the Palestinians of hope for freedom and a future has led them right into the arms of Iran (or whatever boogeyman du jour).

And if the latter is true, why are we not talking about accountability in Israel for creating and mercilessly persisting with the conditions that led us to this point, where a country 1,500 miles away is able to establish influence as a counter-balance to the oppression model?

I don't care about your incredulity about "my claim" about Iran - it's not my claim, it's widely known. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/iranian-government-actors-seeking-advantage-pro-palestinian-protests/story?id=111786372 Take your incredulity and complaints elsewhere, they go nowhere with me.

And regarding the latter, you aren't exactly refuting me and are in fact justifying Iran's involvement and meddling. You also haven't refuted my argument that there aren't any strong pro-Palestine voices among the protesters strongly condemning and rejecting Hamas and Hezbollah (and in terms as strong as the ones they use against Israel) and proposing a genuinely new and different leadership direction or regime for Palestine.

So you still haven't even remotely made the case that anything I said is somehow "dishonest" or "despicable" or "slanderous" or "propaganda."

The Palestinians live in concentration camps. It’s completely dishonest to pretend that there’s such a thing as “leadership” in this camps. There’s no entry or exit without Israel’s control. There no access to sea or air.

What are you even talking about?

Sure, I’ll join you in emphatically calling for new leadership in Gaza. Now what? Are you pathetically trying to condition throttling back the murder of civilians on this false premise that such a shared goal (new “leadership” in what amounts to a prison or concentration camp) is achievable given how Israel has chosen to execute this conflict.

Do the new leaders in Gaza show up tomorrow morning to pick up their keys to the city (of rubble)?

Hamas runs the camps. Trying to say "there's no leadership" is complete nonsense.

Now go back and address the rest of the points? The fact that you're running away from answering the rest of them suggests you know the truth that Iran has its fingers deep in all of this. The fact that you can't point to any Palestinians outside of Palestine or anyone else who carries any weight with regard to new leadership tells me you are unprepared and unequipped to even be having any meaningful conversation whatsoever about the future of Palestinians.

All you seem to have is a bunch of attacks, only to retreat, dodge and weave when your attacks are confronted. It's really quite a fail on your part.

DP. The issue is not Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, etc. The issue is Israel treatment of the Palestinians. When Israel was formed Israel kicked 750,000 Palestinians out of the country- no compensation, no rights, etc. Right to return, compensation, etc are the issues that needs to be resolved. Everything else is just Cat in the Hat's assistants making things worst exponentially.

Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, etc will just be replaced by the next in a long line of organizations and states trying to right the injustice and misery Israel is responsible for creating. Israel has made one thing clear. They would rather kill everyone else in the Middle East vs make peace.

Israel lives by the sword. Everyone who lives by the sword dies by the sword. It is long past time for Israel to do the right thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain why these protesters weren't at the RNC? I honestly don't understand why they're protesting the DNC, but not Bibi's bestie Donald, who definitely doesn't care about Palestinians.

These are people who want “their party” to represent their interests. The leadership just expects everyone to shut up and fall in line. Things are changing.

They don't get to call the Democrats "their party" when they run around shrieking "Genocide Joe" and heckling Democrats during campaign events and so on. They have clearly taken a hateful, adversarial anti-Democrat position.

And don't even get me started on the fact that they are being organized and funded by Iran. To me, that means their political party is the IRGC, and it's clear they won't vote for Democrats - I don't recognize them as Democrats.

The Dems are a lot more than just Israel. You only care about Israel and enforcing your views on everyone else.

Let's be blunt and honest here - the staunchly pro-Hamas part of America may be obnoxiously loud and visible through its vandalism and occupying of street intersections but in terms of numbers, it's only 2% tops even in places like Michigan which has the highest percentage of Muslims. You want to enforce your views on 98% of America.

lol 98% of Americans do not give a sh#t if Israel continues or ceases to exist tomorrow. They can’t even find it on a map. Israel is a Jewish state and only 2% of the country is Jewish. Tell me again why 98% of the country is no allowed to migrate to Israel?

The dems are against racism, intolerance, oppression, apartheid, genocide but are for freedom, justice, religion freedoms, democracy, protection for minorities, helping the down trodden and oppressed, the constitution, equal rights, human right, etc. Now you think because Israel is important to you everyone should throw out their values and ignore what Israel is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please explain why these protesters weren't at the RNC? I honestly don't understand why they're protesting the DNC, but not Bibi's bestie Donald, who definitely doesn't care about Palestinians.

These are people who want “their party” to represent their interests. The leadership just expects everyone to shut up and fall in line. Things are changing.

They don't get to call the Democrats "their party" when they run around shrieking "Genocide Joe" and heckling Democrats during campaign events and so on. They have clearly taken a hateful, adversarial anti-Democrat position.

And don't even get me started on the fact that they are being organized and funded by Iran. To me, that means their political party is the IRGC, and it's clear they won't vote for Democrats - I don't recognize them as Democrats.

The Dems are a lot more than just Israel. You only care about Israel and enforcing your views on everyone else.

Yes, Dems are about a lot more than just Israel. But the pro-Palestine Progressive Left insists on tying all of those other issues to Palestine. It's not that MY only issue is Israel, it's that the goal of the pro-Palestinian movement is to make it impossible for me to be pro-choice, pro-gun control, pro-climate science AND support democracy in the middle east and the rights of Jews not to be murdered through a global intifada.

The people showing up to every other issue with a Palestinian flag are the ones enforcing their views on everyone else.

So your choice vis-a-vis the Middle East is to oppose democracy because you believe that the alternative exposes Jews to a “global intifada” where murder will be the outcome for “all Jews”.

First of all, “global intifada” is bravado fiction conjured by powerless figures in an effort to make their fight for freedom and a future seem less hopeless, and capitalized upon by those depriving them of a hopeless future as “proof” that they were right all along to have done so.

It’s not real. The number of Jews killed by Arabs or Muslims across the globe in the past 100 years is less than 1/2 of 1% of the number of Arabs and Muslims killed by Jews across the globe in that same period of time. So who’s undertaking a campaign of extermination here on the first place?

Second, your statement says it all - I’m all for “democracy”, but only if I retain permanent, indivisible control. So, interpreting that through a handy dandy bullshit meter, it says here that you don’t actually give a F about democracy.

Bottom line: you’re a garden variety fascist who masquerades as an evolved human being motivated by the common good, but you really only care about taking care of your own interests.

At least own who you are …

I am a lot of things, but mainly, to you, I'm an internet stranger. Staying on our topic of conversation, I'll elaborate a little more about me:

I support the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state. Mainly because history has shown us over and over again that Jews will eventually be murdered everywhere else we try to live. Giving Palestinians Israeli citizenship would necessarily make it no longer a Jewish state, which I believe is the point you were making about democracy. I could have said I support our allies in the middle east, rather than democracy in the middle east, though Israel IS a democracy where its citizens vote in real elections (many, many of them over the past few years, if you've been paying attention). The issue of who is a citizen of Israel is a related, but separate thing. I'd love to see a two-state solution, though, admittedly, I don't know what that would look like given the current political climate in the region. Certainly, it seems highly unattainable with Bibi and Hamas in power and with continued settlement building in the West Bank.

As for the "global intifada" - I have always believed that words matter. It's one of the many things I don't like about Trump, that he and his apologists just insist that the things he says don't mean anything. The intifada calls for the worldwide murder of all Jewish people. We have a lot of words in every language, so if people DON'T want to call for the death of all Jews, then they should just string a different set of words together to say what they actually mean.

Not Jewish (really!), but I don’t have an objection to your views now, nor have I ever opposed the essence of how you describe your views. Progress, perhaps.

That agreement with your views, though, doesn’t nullify my additional view that the burden lies squarely on the State of Israel to make the next set of substantial concessions to move toward a resolution that we both know Bibi and probably 70 - 80% of Israelis adamantly oppose. So how does that bridge get crossed?

I honestly have no idea how the bridge gets crossed. I do know (and I recognize that this is anecdotal) that all of my Israeli friends in their 20s, 30s, and 40s think Bibi belongs in prison and are opposed to settlement expansion. They just want to live in peace and not get bombed. I think that, along with recent normalizing of relations with some of their neighbors, is a good sign overall.

DP there is no daylight between Bibi and Israelis. They want the same thing. Israel’s relationship with neighboring countries and countries in the region has taken many steps backward and is in crisis. Israelis want to annex the West Bank, kill Palestinians and destabilize all neighboring governments to create a free fire buffer zone. Israeli maps do not show the West Bank as separate from Israel.

Israelis just want to go back to where they were last year. Killing Palestinians, increasing settlements and not having to acknowledge what they’re doing while the US flips the bill.

I think you meant "foots the bill" not "flips the bill." That typo aside, I don't think you know very much about Israel or Israelis if you think there's no daylight between them and Bibi.