Cheating Scandal Triggering TJ Change

[Anonymous]

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Racial quotas are illegal

Not if you pretend you are using them because you value diversity.

No, they’re explicitly illegal.

What colleges do is they say they are using diversity factors, then they have quotas that they implement behind the scenes. The Supreme Court upheld this, but Antonin Scalia called them out on this, noting their look for diversity seemed to result in each race staying within a narrow range each year. Native Americans 1%, etc.

Citation needed (on the original assertion, not on Scalia)

[Anonymous]

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That’s right! The Asians are smarter than the other minorities, therefore they deserve those spots at TJ and at the Ivy’s. With those credentials they will be able to work along next to us white folks.

No one has claimed that they're smarter. What they generally are is harder working and more motivated. Those sound like excellent qualities for TJ or future success. Why are you discounting them?

Because TJ is best understood as an outstanding opportunity, rather than as an outcome or a prize to be won.

Agree also don't think the PP understands that opportunities like expensive prep classes aren't really an indication of harder working but family wealth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
That’s right! The Asians are smarter than the other minorities, therefore they deserve those spots at TJ and at the Ivy’s. With those credentials they will be able to work along next to us white folks.

No one has claimed that they're smarter. What they generally are is harder working and more motivated. Those sound like excellent qualities for TJ or future success. Why are you discounting them?

Because TJ is best understood as an outstanding opportunity, rather than as an outcome or a prize to be won.

Agree also don't think the PP understands that opportunities like expensive prep classes aren't really an indication of harder working but family wealth.

+1. It is time to eliminate the ability of parents to influence elite admissions processes. Enrich your kids, by all means - but don't expect that that additional enrichment is going to result in a leg up in elite academic admissions processes. And if that's the only reason you're doing it.....

STOP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

In as far as a race-blind admission can be which is to say it isn't because that's illegal. However, there are problems looking at the distribution of seats. One group is overrepresented while all others are underrepresented, but I agree this indicates that the process is flawed.

Your casual comment belies your perspective. In short, you believe that seats should be distributed according to race.

DP. And FCPS doesn't and has a race blind process and yet you are complaining.

[Anonymous]

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YOUR comment belies YOUR perspective that certain races are inherently more deserving of seats than others.

DP. Why are we even talking about who is 'inherently more deserving?" TJ shouldn't be picking kids based on inherent ability/raw aptitude when motivation and hard work are such important components of succeeding at TJ. I'm white, and I have no problem with admitting that in general, Asian families prioritize education more than other families and the kids tend to work much harder. Asians most likely are deserving of more seats, since they're putting in much more effort than everyone else. I think it's gross to act as if motivation and effort equals privilege, and then completely discount them so they can reduce Asians at TJ.

So, for example, if a group decides to send their kids to academic camps on weekend and summers, the entire FCPS student body should have to do that in order to keep up and be accepted into TJ? Sorry, but that shouldn't be required. Kids can handle STEM subjects without having to do that and many families can't even afford to do that. If that's what you want, find an elite private school and leave the public school system.

[Anonymous]

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race-blind admissions is a distraction. Seems like the real issue is purchasing admissions.

And the way to stop purchasing admissions is to implement a per school quota?

No, it's to remove the exam.

This means the per-school quota which was implemented had nothing to do with the alleged cheating on an entrance exam.
They had some other goal in mind.

Yes. It’s called making TJ more accessible for white families. White PTA moms that push their kids into AAP programs so they can brag, and now they want their kid attending TJ for the status symbol. The admissions changes had NOTHING to do with increase in URMs. It was only when the school was majority Asian and white kids could not compete head to head was drastic change called for.

Yet, I haven’t heard any complaints from Asians about white kids taking their spots. The have made a federal case out of the thought of Latino and Black kids taking spots they want though.

The federal case does not make that point. When they increase the incoming class size from 480-550, they could have met their diversity goals from the extra 70 seats. They decided not to. The only group that was negatively impacted was the 'Asian' demographic because there are ant-Asian bigots in FCPS who feel that they are 'over-represented,' a racist dogwhistle because there is no such as thing as over representation of excellence,

Can someone explain how 'Asian' becomes a race identification? The Indians and east Asians don't look like and have different cultures. They bring just as much diversity. North Indians are probably part whites at the DNA level. If we are following FCPS's racial agenda here -- the Indians should not be lumped into this manufactured 'Asian' race, and the FCPS's race 'problem' will be solved. If you look at the world as large, TJ's race and ethnicity roughly mirror the world's demographics. Indo-European is about half with east asian a quarter. Africans are less represented for sure, but that could be solved by using the extra 70 seats exclusively for URMs.

This entire 'reform' is racist as ****.

Indians are FAR more overrepresented at TJ than East Asians. FAR FAR FAR.

An earlier post cited it quite well. The new admission process is Racist As F_k!

Maybe so, but you could look at the results of the old one and see that was too. Any person with integrity can appreciate the effort to try to reverse it.

The old process was very classist too. It favored just the people who invested big $$$ in prep. The new one isn't perfect but at least it's a little little bit more diverse.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In as far as a race-blind admission can be which is to say it isn't because that's illegal. However, there are problems looking at the distribution of seats. One group is overrepresented while all others are underrepresented, but I agree this indicates that the process is flawed.

Your casual comment belies your perspective. In short, you believe that seats should be distributed according to race.

DP - there is a difference between "seats should be distributed according to race" and "barriers to certain communities should be removed".

YOUR comment belies YOUR perspective that certain races are inherently more deserving of seats than others.


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Ah yes. When you can't attack the logic, attack the motive. I said nada/zip/nothing regarding race. Removing merit aspects and adding subjective measures to admission criteria ensures a degree of randomness and opens the door to biased essay assessment, both of which will likely result in less-qualified admissions.

You mention "less -qualified." Why should kids need to be in the top 1 percent of the country to access a public school's STEM curriculum? As a taxpayer, I think TJ should serve a broader segment of the population. Above a certain benchmark, kids are able to perform well--there's no need for them to be elite performers.

[Anonymous]

And it turns out the kids there aren't even elite for the most part they simply purchased many expensive prep lessons where they were coached and given answers. So I have to agree with the PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And it turns out the kids there aren't even elite for the most part they simply purchased many expensive prep lessons where they were coached and given answers. So I have to agree with the PP.

They also mostly had straight As with a near 4.0 GPA average. Test prep was a part of it, and there is some privilege that was necessary for that.

But they were also near universally good and hardworking students. Test prep alone wouldn’t get you into TJ. Stop with the strawman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it turns out the kids there aren't even elite for the most part they simply purchased many expensive prep lessons where they were coached and given answers. So I have to agree with the PP.

They also mostly had straight As with a near 4.0 GPA average. Test prep was a part of it, and there is some privilege that was necessary for that.

But they were also near universally good and hardworking students. Test prep alone wouldn’t get you into TJ. Stop with the strawman.

That test prep is the real difference maker is such a myth. Brilliant, hard-working kids get in to TJ. Average kids that take prep classes do not. That has always been the case until this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it turns out the kids there aren't even elite for the most part they simply purchased many expensive prep lessons where they were coached and given answers. So I have to agree with the PP.

They also mostly had straight As with a near 4.0 GPA average. Test prep was a part of it, and there is some privilege that was necessary for that.

But they were also near universally good and hardworking students. Test prep alone wouldn’t get you into TJ. Stop with the strawman.

That test prep is the real difference maker is such a myth. Brilliant, hard-working kids get in to TJ. Average kids that take prep classes do not. That has always been the case until this year.

Except when the fakes make it clear that it is the difference-maker. Curie alone accounts for over 30% of those who got admitted and that's just one place. This whole thread was about people buying the answers. All the evidence indicates otherwise and the majority of parents whose kids are getting in seem to agree or they wouldn't be spending so much on tutors, aops, rsm and test prep.

[Anonymous]

Cheaters never win and winners never cheat

[Anonymous]

IME, this isn’t true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it turns out the kids there aren't even elite for the most part they simply purchased many expensive prep lessons where they were coached and given answers. So I have to agree with the PP.

They also mostly had straight As with a near 4.0 GPA average. Test prep was a part of it, and there is some privilege that was necessary for that.

But they were also near universally good and hardworking students. Test prep alone wouldn’t get you into TJ. Stop with the strawman.

That test prep is the real difference maker is such a myth. Brilliant, hard-working kids get in to TJ. Average kids that take prep classes do not. That has always been the case until this year.

Except when the fakes make it clear that it is the difference-maker. Curie alone accounts for over 30% of those who got admitted and that's just one place. This whole thread was about people buying the answers. All the evidence indicates otherwise and the majority of parents whose kids are getting in seem to agree or they wouldn't be spending so much on tutors, aops, rsm and test prep.

No one had the answers. "All evidence" you just made up is what you are relying on. In the TJ lawsuit, FCPS didn't assert there was any cheating. If there was any chance this alleged cheating was true FCPS would be pursuing it. This is just more sour grapes from parents like you trying to feel better about the fact your darling Larlo didn't doing well enough on the test to get to the semi-final round. By your logic, the SAT scores for the class of 2024 will be the lowest ever since they aren't that bright and they won't be able to buy the answers to the SAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And it turns out the kids there aren't even elite for the most part they simply purchased many expensive prep lessons where they were coached and given answers. So I have to agree with the PP.

They also mostly had straight As with a near 4.0 GPA average. Test prep was a part of it, and there is some privilege that was necessary for that.

But they were also near universally good and hardworking students. Test prep alone wouldn’t get you into TJ. Stop with the strawman.

That test prep is the real difference maker is such a myth. Brilliant, hard-working kids get in to TJ. Average kids that take prep classes do not. That has always been the case until this year.

Except when the fakes make it clear that it is the difference-maker. Curie alone accounts for over 30% of those who got admitted and that's just one place. This whole thread was about people buying the answers. All the evidence indicates otherwise and the majority of parents whose kids are getting in seem to agree or they wouldn't be spending so much on tutors, aops, rsm and test prep.

No one had the answers. "All evidence" you just made up is what you are relying on. In the TJ lawsuit, FCPS didn't assert there was any cheating. If there was any chance this alleged cheating was true FCPS would be pursuing it. This is just more sour grapes from parents like you trying to feel better about the fact your darling Larlo didn't doing well enough on the test to get to the semi-final round. By your logic, the SAT scores for the class of 2024 will be the lowest ever since they aren't that bright and they won't be able to buy the answers to the SAT.

There are over 6k comments on reditt with kids discussing Saturday's SAT exam questions.