New Policy: APS school board adopts all-day ban on student phone use, makes one exception

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a teacher who has posted about how I am really, really strict with this policy. It is a good policy and it benefits the kids in many ways. However, I have had a few one-off instances this year where a kid who is otherwise always on task, always present, never an issue about putting their phone away has called me over and said “Can I use my phone to text my mom, I started my period” or another quick but necessary message , and I have allowed it. Typically I ask them to just step out in the hall to send their message and then they come back in and replace the phone and we continue our class.

There are reasonable exceptions like this which is why I personally don’t like the idea of the locking pouches all day and I do think Youngkin is going to tip the balance from compliance when it truly matters (ie- in class) to a lack of broader support by prohibiting the phones during reasonable times like between class or at lunch. That being said, I can see why they think they might think that route is best since it in theory takes away the ability for the lazy teachers who just want the kids to think they’re cool to say “I don’t care if you keep them,” which some of them do. Inconsistent application of the policy is problematic.

I mean, getting your period unexpectedly sucks and being a teen in high school compounds that feeling, but I mean this has been going on for decades? It’s not like a new thing. How is your solution any different than excusing the student to go to the nurses office where she can make the exact same call (and actually get some tampons/pads instead of having to wait for mommy)? If she needs new clothes or to go home, the that too should be a done in the nurses office.

It just feels like every excuse to text mom is just that, and excuse. It’s too difficult to enforce who is doing what on their phones. I support a full ban and find of these “reasons” to use a phone to be lame and unhelpful. Kids need to deal with these issues like periods and scheduling. They will survive and be better for it.

And, sorry, one more thing. If you are letting kids text mommy and daddy then the other teachers are going to hear about it and all the teachers are going to be interrupted with requests to text mommy and daddy. I’m not saying constantly but it seems like it would be way easier in your life to be able to just say: no phones ever and that way you don’t have to get into deciding whether period meets the need requirement to text mommy and daddy and you just stop getting those requests. Kids will adjust, knowing it’s not an option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a real-life HS student (not a 3rd grader) at a school where phones are officially banned. Kids still use them sparingly and the teachers generally overlook it.

I got a quick text this morning (between classes) saying that an after-school activity is cancelled, which is helpful for me to receive now so I can rearrange my schedule to pick the kid up several hours earlier.

If kid told me this at 2:30 it'd be a huge PITA.

Are the nasty PPs really so unimaginative that they can't think of [i]any[/] scenarios when phones would be helpful? GMAFB.

1. child can still email you from their school issued laptop
2. child can text during lunch at the designated phone use location established at their school.
3. if #2 is not yet in place at your school, see #1

Yes, the quick immediate text between class is much easier, faster, more efficient. But is life non-functional without it? No.
And it is the "go find it yourself, I refuse to provide an answer" PPs that began the nastiness.

It isn’t always convenient to whip out a laptop.

Yes, obviously life can go on without cell phones. We all grew up without them.

There is no substantial difference between:
- between classes vs lunch
- laptop vs phone

You want to add hassle and inconvenience for no real value.

I’m glad my kid’s school doesn’t take this too seriously. It’s not worth the hassle.

You're full of contradictions.
No substantive difference between classes vs lunch - so why isn't lunch sufficient?
No substantive difference between laptop and phone - yet not always convenient to whip out a laptop.
No substantive differences, yet you're asserting I want to add hassle and inconvenience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At Yorktown they are allowed to use them in a quiet spot in the library. DD tells me she doesn’t have time during the day to go to said spot. So if she needs to get us a message I guess she does it while going to the bathroom.

But schedule changes happen all the time in high school. Something was cancelled today so I didn’t have to pick her up from school. She rode the bus. Nice to get that message so I didn’t have to rush to leave the office at 4 to pick her up.

She can email you. She has access to email from her laptop. If she doesn't have a non-APS email account, perhaps you should look into one.

Unfortunately email isn't the best way to reach people when you need to see a message quickly. If my HS students emails me, I may not see it for hours. And even if I do and email them back, there is NO way they will see it. How could they? They would have to keep going into their gmail - during class time - to see if I responded yet, and sift through the hundreds of spam emails they get from colleges.

Urgent notifications are what texts are for.

You surely are able to receive notification of receipt of an email, just like you get notifications of a text.
If it's just a quick urgent message, why the need for immediate ongoing exchange?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a real-life HS student (not a 3rd grader) at a school where phones are officially banned. Kids still use them sparingly and the teachers generally overlook it.

I got a quick text this morning (between classes) saying that an after-school activity is cancelled, which is helpful for me to receive now so I can rearrange my schedule to pick the kid up several hours earlier.

If kid told me this at 2:30 it'd be a huge PITA.

Are the nasty PPs really so unimaginative that they can't think of [i]any[/] scenarios when phones would be helpful? GMAFB.

1. child can still email you from their school issued laptop
2. child can text during lunch at the designated phone use location established at their school.
3. if #2 is not yet in place at your school, see #1

Yes, the quick immediate text between class is much easier, faster, more efficient. But is life non-functional without it? No.
And it is the "go find it yourself, I refuse to provide an answer" PPs that began the nastiness.

See this is why no one wanted to answer your question. You just come up with really silly altneratives that are really inconvenient and don't work. Ever think about what happens if the child needs to get a message to the parent after the one designated allowed period? Or what if they do send it during that period - how/when will they be able to get a reply back?

Just go to the front office and make a phone call and speak directly with your parent if it's that difficult a situation to manage.
I don't give a crap about your "inconvenience" and I seriously doubt your assertion that they "don't work" -- it's worked fine for us all year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At Yorktown they are allowed to use them in a quiet spot in the library. DD tells me she doesn’t have time during the day to go to said spot. So if she needs to get us a message I guess she does it while going to the bathroom.

But schedule changes happen all the time in high school. Something was cancelled today so I didn’t have to pick her up from school. She rode the bus. Nice to get that message so I didn’t have to rush to leave the office at 4 to pick her up.

this is what the parents of younger kids just do not get. There are a lot of schedule shifts with high school activities that just don't happen with littles.

Dude. Let go of the idea that the “only” people favoring the ban are parents with little kids. I am in favor, and I have a HS student.

It’s like you all have no idea of how to do a cost benefit analysis and the “cost” to YOU of last minute scheduling changes completely outweighs the entire body of scientific evidence along with your children’s teachers of cell phones harm. To keep harping on this issue of last minute schedule changes as if it’s the end of the universe for our over scheduled HS students is not convincing anyone. We all think your child will probably benefit from having to figure out last minute schedules changes on their own and NO ONE CARES HOW HARD IT IS FOR YOU TOBE SOMEHWHAT INCONVENIENCED by not being tethered to your kid.

YES! YES! YES!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a real-life HS student (not a 3rd grader) at a school where phones are officially banned. Kids still use them sparingly and the teachers generally overlook it.

I got a quick text this morning (between classes) saying that an after-school activity is cancelled, which is helpful for me to receive now so I can rearrange my schedule to pick the kid up several hours earlier.

If kid told me this at 2:30 it'd be a huge PITA.

Are the nasty PPs really so unimaginative that they can't think of [i]any[/] scenarios when phones would be helpful? GMAFB.

Okay, I actually would be okay with kids having flip phones.

We can get Tello with 500 text a month for $5, a flip phone is like what $50? Maybe it would eh cheaper just to issue every student a school flip phone rather than pouch?

But that would probably be fine.

1 minute text on smart phone vs 1 minute text on flip phone. No difference.

I have a bridge to sell you if you all think that kids will limit their phone usage to “1-minute texts to parents.”

If they are shuffling between classes in a massive building there really isn’t that much time. You clearly don’t have HS kids in APS.

Anyway, some whiny poster was asking for “just one reason” why kids might need their phones between classes. I gave one.

I support teachers who want to ban phones in their classroom, but I’m glad that my kid’s teachers aren’t so rigid; they are ok with kids sending a text every now and then between classes.

Actually, I'm that person and I asked why it was so critical - not why they might use it.
To explain what I mean by critical: so essential that the need cannot be met by another means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a real-life HS student (not a 3rd grader) at a school where phones are officially banned. Kids still use them sparingly and the teachers generally overlook it.

I got a quick text this morning (between classes) saying that an after-school activity is cancelled, which is helpful for me to receive now so I can rearrange my schedule to pick the kid up several hours earlier.

If kid told me this at 2:30 it'd be a huge PITA.

Are the nasty PPs really so unimaginative that they can't think of [i]any[/] scenarios when phones would be helpful? GMAFB.

1. child can still email you from their school issued laptop
2. child can text during lunch at the designated phone use location established at their school.
3. if #2 is not yet in place at your school, see #1

Yes, the quick immediate text between class is much easier, faster, more efficient. But is life non-functional without it? No.
And it is the "go find it yourself, I refuse to provide an answer" PPs that began the nastiness.

It isn’t always convenient to whip out a laptop.

Yes, obviously life can go on without cell phones. We all grew up without them.

There is no substantial difference between:
- between classes vs lunch
- laptop vs phone

You want to add hassle and inconvenience for no real value.

I’m glad my kid’s school doesn’t take this too seriously. It’s not worth the hassle.

You're full of contradictions.
No substantive difference between classes vs lunch - so why isn't lunch sufficient?
No substantive difference between laptop and phone - yet not always convenient to whip out a laptop.
No substantive differences, yet you're asserting I want to add hassle and inconvenience.

No substantial difference in "harm". You want to add hassle and inconvenience for no real value.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At Yorktown they are allowed to use them in a quiet spot in the library. DD tells me she doesn’t have time during the day to go to said spot. So if she needs to get us a message I guess she does it while going to the bathroom.

But schedule changes happen all the time in high school. Something was cancelled today so I didn’t have to pick her up from school. She rode the bus. Nice to get that message so I didn’t have to rush to leave the office at 4 to pick her up.

She can email you. She has access to email from her laptop. If she doesn't have a non-APS email account, perhaps you should look into one.

Unfortunately email isn't the best way to reach people when you need to see a message quickly. If my HS students emails me, I may not see it for hours. And even if I do and email them back, there is NO way they will see it. How could they? They would have to keep going into their gmail - during class time - to see if I responded yet, and sift through the hundreds of spam emails they get from colleges.

Urgent notifications are what texts are for.

Why is it urgent? Lets say they told you that practice was canceled and needed a ride home. He will be out side waiting. What else is he going to do? AND he will have a phone. You got the message, so you will be there. Or someone else because you arranged a ride -- you can text him and he will see it end of day and find ride.

How old are you that you are so impatient with messages for no good reason?

Maybe you sit around all day with nothing to do but some of us need some advance notice if a pickup time changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a real-life HS student (not a 3rd grader) at a school where phones are officially banned. Kids still use them sparingly and the teachers generally overlook it.

I got a quick text this morning (between classes) saying that an after-school activity is cancelled, which is helpful for me to receive now so I can rearrange my schedule to pick the kid up several hours earlier.

If kid told me this at 2:30 it'd be a huge PITA.

Are the nasty PPs really so unimaginative that they can't think of [i]any[/] scenarios when phones would be helpful? GMAFB.

Okay, I actually would be okay with kids having flip phones.

We can get Tello with 500 text a month for $5, a flip phone is like what $50? Maybe it would eh cheaper just to issue every student a school flip phone rather than pouch?

But that would probably be fine.

1 minute text on smart phone vs 1 minute text on flip phone. No difference.

I have a bridge to sell you if you all think that kids will limit their phone usage to “1-minute texts to parents.”

If they are shuffling between classes in a massive building there really isn’t that much time. You clearly don’t have HS kids in APS.

Anyway, some whiny poster was asking for “just one reason” why kids might need their phones between classes. I gave one.

I support teachers who want to ban phones in their classroom, but I’m glad that my kid’s teachers aren’t so rigid; they are ok with kids sending a text every now and then between classes.

Actually, I'm that person and I asked why it was so critical - not why they might use it.
To explain what I mean by critical: so essential that the need cannot be met by another means.

No one has found another mode that replaces it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At Yorktown they are allowed to use them in a quiet spot in the library. DD tells me she doesn’t have time during the day to go to said spot. So if she needs to get us a message I guess she does it while going to the bathroom.

But schedule changes happen all the time in high school. Something was cancelled today so I didn’t have to pick her up from school. She rode the bus. Nice to get that message so I didn’t have to rush to leave the office at 4 to pick her up.

this is what the parents of younger kids just do not get. There are a lot of schedule shifts with high school activities that just don't happen with littles.

Dude. Let go of the idea that the “only” people favoring the ban are parents with little kids. I am in favor, and I have a HS student.

It’s like you all have no idea of how to do a cost benefit analysis and the “cost” to YOU of last minute scheduling changes completely outweighs the entire body of scientific evidence along with your children’s teachers of cell phones harm. To keep harping on this issue of last minute schedule changes as if it’s the end of the universe for our over scheduled HS students is not convincing anyone. We all think your child will probably benefit from having to figure out last minute schedules changes on their own and NO ONE CARES HOW HARD IT IS FOR YOU TOBE SOMEHWHAT INCONVENIENCED by not being tethered to your kid.

Where are these studies that show that sending an occasional text between classes is harmful?

You are being overly rigid on this and seem incapable of understanding nuance. Maybe reflect on that.

DP. I don't care whether using phones between classes is "harmful" or not. It's not about "harm" for me. Others cite how students communicate via phone during the school day to arrange nefarious behaviors. All of that is distraction from the learning environment and the purpose of everyone being there. It affects more than the individuals engaging in the nonsense.

Do I really care if Johnny wants to send Mommy a text telling her the grade on his chemistry exam on his way to history class? No, I don't. But I'm fine with the ban which eliminates all the getting everyone to put their phone away so they can start class nonsense. I prefer the idea of all the kids being "present" rather than somewhere else on their phone during the downtimes between classes - chatting with classmate about the test they just took; saying hi to teachers in the hallway; thinking about - and mentally preparing for - their next class and being ready to start as soon as they're in their seat and the bell rings; reading the posters and all the signs advertising fundraisers or cheering on a team or whatever.

Mommy can wait to hear what Johnny got on his test. And if after-school practice is cancelled, the coach should be sending a message out to the team contact list anyway, Johnny can catch the bus/another ride/or walk home, or wait a while for someone to be able to come pick him up. (I will grant that that last option has become increasingly challenging at Wakefield the past few years since they do everything in their power to preclude kids from being on site without actually being actively participating in an organized activity at the moment. Heaven forbid a student just sit in town hall doing homework until their ride shows up or their practice begins. But that's another topic.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At Yorktown they are allowed to use them in a quiet spot in the library. DD tells me she doesn’t have time during the day to go to said spot. So if she needs to get us a message I guess she does it while going to the bathroom.

But schedule changes happen all the time in high school. Something was cancelled today so I didn’t have to pick her up from school. She rode the bus. Nice to get that message so I didn’t have to rush to leave the office at 4 to pick her up.

this is what the parents of younger kids just do not get. There are a lot of schedule shifts with high school activities that just don't happen with littles.

Dude. Let go of the idea that the “only” people favoring the ban are parents with little kids. I am in favor, and I have a HS student.

It’s like you all have no idea of how to do a cost benefit analysis and the “cost” to YOU of last minute scheduling changes completely outweighs the entire body of scientific evidence along with your children’s teachers of cell phones harm. To keep harping on this issue of last minute schedule changes as if it’s the end of the universe for our over scheduled HS students is not convincing anyone. We all think your child will probably benefit from having to figure out last minute schedules changes on their own and NO ONE CARES HOW HARD IT IS FOR YOU TOBE SOMEHWHAT INCONVENIENCED by not being tethered to your kid.

Where are these studies that show that sending an occasional text between classes is harmful?

You are being overly rigid on this and seem incapable of understanding nuance. Maybe reflect on that.

Actually you give me another idea. A student can remove phone from a pouch if the school is allowed to install MDM on your personal phone, and then only allows the phone to whitelist certain phone numbers for like 10 messages a day. It can receive calls and everything else is locked down while at school. The MDM would also have a bluetooth app that the teacher could sniff with their own phone to confirm that this is not a burner phone but the MDM installed phone.

This is MDM profiles 101, not hard to implement at all. And now you can text about carpool without living in terror.

Seriously?
I do not want or need the school to require something being put on my kid's personal phone. (And I'm a parent who is fine with my kid's phone being confiscated for the day if they are using it when they're not supposed to, and not a whiny parent complaining that their kid can't access their phone between classes).
Seriously, putting the phone away is a lot simpler. Why would anyone CRITICALLY NEED ten messages within the school day? Something that complex should be handled by an actual phone call.
Besides, the phones still receive messages in the pouches. It's not like their phones become dysfunctional stored away in a pouch, in their backpack, in a shoe holder on the classroom door, in a box on the teacher's desk, or wherever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In a teacher who has posted about how I am really, really strict with this policy. It is a good policy and it benefits the kids in many ways. However, I have had a few one-off instances this year where a kid who is otherwise always on task, always present, never an issue about putting their phone away has called me over and said “Can I use my phone to text my mom, I started my period” or another quick but necessary message , and I have allowed it. Typically I ask them to just step out in the hall to send their message and then they come back in and replace the phone and we continue our class.

There are reasonable exceptions like this which is why I personally don’t like the idea of the locking pouches all day and I do think Youngkin is going to tip the balance from compliance when it truly matters (ie- in class) to a lack of broader support by prohibiting the phones during reasonable times like between class or at lunch. That being said, I can see why they think they might think that route is best since it in theory takes away the ability for the lazy teachers who just want the kids to think they’re cool to say “I don’t care if you keep them,” which some of them do. Inconsistent application of the policy is problematic.

Your approach should be norm. Unfortunately, it's not. That's the problem. If schools had enforced no phones during class (including no class assignments using apps on phones), and enforced the rules and consequences, we would not be where we are today arguing about pouches and texts in the hallways.

I am also hoping that such a complete ban ultimately acts as a reset, breaking everyone's (especially the parents') phone habits and expectations. If people can adjust their mindset and go back to a more discipline and less self-centered place/attitude, maybe we won't need pouches or any other storage system other than kids' backpacks in the future. Sometimes it takes a draconian restriction to make that happen. Incremental steps often result in students (and teachers) not taking it seriously, testing or pushing the boundaries. It's easier to let-up on a rule when everyone realizes you're serious about it than it is to keep gradually restricting and expecting everyone to comply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a teacher who has posted about how I am really, really strict with this policy. It is a good policy and it benefits the kids in many ways. However, I have had a few one-off instances this year where a kid who is otherwise always on task, always present, never an issue about putting their phone away has called me over and said “Can I use my phone to text my mom, I started my period” or another quick but necessary message , and I have allowed it. Typically I ask them to just step out in the hall to send their message and then they come back in and replace the phone and we continue our class.

There are reasonable exceptions like this which is why I personally don’t like the idea of the locking pouches all day and I do think Youngkin is going to tip the balance from compliance when it truly matters (ie- in class) to a lack of broader support by prohibiting the phones during reasonable times like between class or at lunch. That being said, I can see why they think they might think that route is best since it in theory takes away the ability for the lazy teachers who just want the kids to think they’re cool to say “I don’t care if you keep them,” which some of them do. Inconsistent application of the policy is problematic.

I mean, getting your period unexpectedly sucks and being a teen in high school compounds that feeling, but I mean this has been going on for decades? It’s not like a new thing. How is your solution any different than excusing the student to go to the nurses office where she can make the exact same call (and actually get some tampons/pads instead of having to wait for mommy)? If she needs new clothes or to go home, the that too should be a done in the nurses office.

It just feels like every excuse to text mom is just that, and excuse. It’s too difficult to enforce who is doing what on their phones. I support a full ban and find of these “reasons” to use a phone to be lame and unhelpful. Kids need to deal with these issues like periods and scheduling. They will survive and be better for it.

I tend to agree. Still, I think the highlight of the post to be emphasized is the part about the exception being granted to the responsible student who is always there, doesn't break the rules, etc. Still, a slippery slope to be avoided - which it sounds like this particular teacher is quite capable of. Other teachers would be taken advantage of by even the "good" students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At Yorktown they are allowed to use them in a quiet spot in the library. DD tells me she doesn’t have time during the day to go to said spot. So if she needs to get us a message I guess she does it while going to the bathroom.

But schedule changes happen all the time in high school. Something was cancelled today so I didn’t have to pick her up from school. She rode the bus. Nice to get that message so I didn’t have to rush to leave the office at 4 to pick her up.

She can email you. She has access to email from her laptop. If she doesn't have a non-APS email account, perhaps you should look into one.

Unfortunately email isn't the best way to reach people when you need to see a message quickly. If my HS students emails me, I may not see it for hours. And even if I do and email them back, there is NO way they will see it. How could they? They would have to keep going into their gmail - during class time - to see if I responded yet, and sift through the hundreds of spam emails they get from colleges.

Urgent notifications are what texts are for.

Why is it urgent? Lets say they told you that practice was canceled and needed a ride home. He will be out side waiting. What else is he going to do? AND he will have a phone. You got the message, so you will be there. Or someone else because you arranged a ride -- you can text him and he will see it end of day and find ride.

How old are you that you are so impatient with messages for no good reason?

Maybe you sit around all day with nothing to do but some of us need some advance notice if a pickup time changes.

If pickup time has been made earlier, your kid will wait or find another way home.
If it's a group activity that's been cancelled or lets out early, your kid can wait or have a system in place for them to contact someone else who can get to them faster or to catch a ride with a fellow student in the group.
If pickup time is later, seems like you would have time to arrange for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a real-life HS student (not a 3rd grader) at a school where phones are officially banned. Kids still use them sparingly and the teachers generally overlook it.

I got a quick text this morning (between classes) saying that an after-school activity is cancelled, which is helpful for me to receive now so I can rearrange my schedule to pick the kid up several hours earlier.

If kid told me this at 2:30 it'd be a huge PITA.

Are the nasty PPs really so unimaginative that they can't think of [i]any[/] scenarios when phones would be helpful? GMAFB.

Okay, I actually would be okay with kids having flip phones.

We can get Tello with 500 text a month for $5, a flip phone is like what $50? Maybe it would eh cheaper just to issue every student a school flip phone rather than pouch?

But that would probably be fine.

1 minute text on smart phone vs 1 minute text on flip phone. No difference.

I have a bridge to sell you if you all think that kids will limit their phone usage to “1-minute texts to parents.”

If they are shuffling between classes in a massive building there really isn’t that much time. You clearly don’t have HS kids in APS.

Anyway, some whiny poster was asking for “just one reason” why kids might need their phones between classes. I gave one.

I support teachers who want to ban phones in their classroom, but I’m glad that my kid’s teachers aren’t so rigid; they are ok with kids sending a text every now and then between classes.

Actually, I'm that person and I asked why it was so critical - not why they might use it.
To explain what I mean by critical: so essential that the need cannot be met by another means.

No one has found another mode that replaces it

No, nobody has found a mode that equals its efficiency or sufficiently replaces it to your satisfaction. It seems very fortunate for you that you have not had to be a parent (or apparently a kid, either) in the time before cell phones since you seem incapable of anything less quick or convenient. These may be difficult times for you until your kid(s) are no longer in a school with a phone ban. I hope you can take comfort knowing it won't be forever and that there are indeed ways to survive it.