Court: TJ's New Admission Policy Does Not Discriminate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thumbs on the scale??? Are you referring to working our backsides off so that the kids do well? Well, we have no choice because we cannot pay off the crew or lacrosse coach and we are not 6'5" or 300 lbs. in 5th grade and so don't get into Basketball or Football teams. We do what we can with the tools we have.

Said the quiet part out loud here.

It is a pervasive attitude in certain cultures that elite school admission is an achievement of the parents and should be attributed mostly to parenting.

It’s so pervasive, in fact, that when you call it out on a forum such as this one, they don’t have the faintest idea of how it could possibly be considered problematic.

Not sure it’s any more problematic than having one special school, doling out admissions to that school based on an arbitrary factor such as geography and whether some random admissions officer can discern certain applicants are “disadvantaged,” and then expecting other people to buy into the assertion that the kids who ended up there are superior in any meaningful way to other students.

The former relies on parents working hard to support their children; the latter relies on the state’s insistence that we suspend common sense.

Goodness, the number of problems with this response.

- Geography isn’t “arbitrary”. Kids in different parts of Northern Virginia have significantly differing experiences and opportunities and huge sections of the catchment area were essentially cut out of the previous process. In the long run, it will be far better for TJ for families from all areas to believe that they can have access to the school and in the short run, it will be better for TJ kids to be exposed to kids from different backgrounds. If nothing else, it will be easier for many of them to get away from the racism and classism embedded by their parents before they get to college and make fools of themselves.

- Nowhere in the current admissions process is any evaluator “discerning” whether a student is disadvantaged. The experience factor points (which I disagree with, but that’s for a different topic) are doled out based on pre-existing identifiers. It’s not like the essay readers are saying “poor Jane Doe, she deserves to get into TJ because her life was so hard”.

- There are people on this forum who would like you to believe that somehow the kids selected by the new process are superior (the “talent over prep” crowd). There’s no basis for that claim. But that claim, importantly, is NOT being made by anyone involved with TJ or FCPS. The TJ Admissions Office for YEARS has been asserting that they could easily fill 3-4 classes (nearly 2000 kids) each year with students who are well qualified to be at TJ and who would be successful. What is happening now is that the old process favored a specific approach, meaning that essentially the same kids within that group were admitted every year. The new process does not favor that approach, so a different mix of those 2000 kids are being selected. And those kids are more likely to have diverse experiences at TJ as a result, which to me is a GREAT thing. The new kids aren’t better than the old kids, but the result of the new process is better for TJ overall.

- Every time I hear a comment like “parents working hard for their kids”, what is not so subtly communicated is that non-Asian families DON’T work hard for their kids and DON’T prioritize education. I’m going to put this as simply as I can - you don’t know what you’re talking about and that assertion is gross.

[Anonymous]

At this point it is clear it would be far better for the region if TJ was returned to use as a community school. It's just a political punching bag at this point, with partisans on each side claiming one version of TJ is better than the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At this point it is clear it would be far better for the region if TJ was returned to use as a community school. It's just a political punching bag at this point, with partisans on each side claiming one version of TJ is better than the other.

Poster(s) keep saying this like it's The Truth but it's not a fact, it's just your opinion. Better? Why? TJ is fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At this point it is clear it would be far better for the region if TJ was returned to use as a community school. It's just a political punching bag at this point, with partisans on each side claiming one version of TJ is better than the other.

This nonsense has already been addressed. Time to move on to a different talking point.

TJ is doing more than fine - the only real issue is the manufactured agita from the outside. And honestly, right now that's not impacting the kids to a huge degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At this point it is clear it would be far better for the region if TJ was returned to use as a community school. It's just a political punching bag at this point, with partisans on each side claiming one version of TJ is better than the other.

This nonsense has already been addressed. Time to move on to a different talking point.

TJ is doing more than fine - the only real issue is the manufactured agita from the outside. And honestly, right now that's not impacting the kids to a huge degree.

Yeah, it is. Kids at TJ know there's a divide between the 9th/10th grade classes and the 11th/12th grade classes, and families know how politicized everything about TJ has become. The wheels have come off the Bonitati-bus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At this point it is clear it would be far better for the region if TJ was returned to use as a community school. It's just a political punching bag at this point, with partisans on each side claiming one version of TJ is better than the other.

This nonsense has already been addressed. Time to move on to a different talking point.

TJ is doing more than fine - the only real issue is the manufactured agita from the outside. And honestly, right now that's not impacting the kids to a huge degree.

Yeah, it is. Kids at TJ know there's a divide between the 9th/10th grade classes and the 11th/12th grade classes, and families know how politicized everything about TJ has become. The wheels have come off the Bonitati-bus.

That was cute, but has no basis in reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At this point it is clear it would be far better for the region if TJ was returned to use as a community school. It's just a political punching bag at this point, with partisans on each side claiming one version of TJ is better than the other.

This nonsense has already been addressed. Time to move on to a different talking point.

TJ is doing more than fine - the only real issue is the manufactured agita from the outside. And honestly, right now that's not impacting the kids to a huge degree.

Yeah, it is. Kids at TJ know there's a divide between the 9th/10th grade classes and the 11th/12th grade classes, and families know how politicized everything about TJ has become. The wheels have come off the Bonitati-bus.

Yes, the 9th and 10th graders seem have higher IQs. The 11th and 12th-grade students had better prep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At this point it is clear it would be far better for the region if TJ was returned to use as a community school. It's just a political punching bag at this point, with partisans on each side claiming one version of TJ is better than the other.

This nonsense has already been addressed. Time to move on to a different talking point.

TJ is doing more than fine - the only real issue is the manufactured agita from the outside. And honestly, right now that's not impacting the kids to a huge degree.

Yeah, it is. Kids at TJ know there's a divide between the 9th/10th grade classes and the 11th/12th grade classes, and families know how politicized everything about TJ has become. The wheels have come off the Bonitati-bus.

Yes, the 9th and 10th graders seem have higher IQs. The 11th and 12th-grade students had better prep.

These are high school kids. Are these attacks necessary? This is inappropriate. What is wrong with you?

[Anonymous]

Please give it up folks. Use your time to do something more useful than attack each other on an anonymous message board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thumbs on the scale??? Are you referring to working our backsides off so that the kids do well? Well, we have no choice because we cannot pay off the crew or lacrosse coach and we are not 6'5" or 300 lbs. in 5th grade and so don't get into Basketball or Football teams. We do what we can with the tools we have.

Said the quiet part out loud here.

It is a pervasive attitude in certain cultures that elite school admission is an achievement of the parents and should be attributed mostly to parenting.

It’s so pervasive, in fact, that when you call it out on a forum such as this one, they don’t have the faintest idea of how it could possibly be considered problematic.

Not sure it’s any more problematic than having one special school, doling out admissions to that school based on an arbitrary factor such as geography and whether some random admissions officer can discern certain applicants are “disadvantaged,” and then expecting other people to buy into the assertion that the kids who ended up there are superior in any meaningful way to other students.

The former relies on parents working hard to support their children; the latter relies on the state’s insistence that we suspend common sense.

Goodness, the number of problems with this response.

- Geography isn’t “arbitrary”. Kids in different parts of Northern Virginia have significantly differing experiences and opportunities and huge sections of the catchment area were essentially cut out of the previous process. In the long run, it will be far better for TJ for families from all areas to believe that they can have access to the school and in the short run, it will be better for TJ kids to be exposed to kids from different backgrounds. If nothing else, it will be easier for many of them to get away from the racism and classism embedded by their parents before they get to college and make fools of themselves.

- Nowhere in the current admissions process is any evaluator “discerning” whether a student is disadvantaged. The experience factor points (which I disagree with, but that’s for a different topic) are doled out based on pre-existing identifiers. It’s not like the essay readers are saying “poor Jane Doe, she deserves to get into TJ because her life was so hard”.

- There are people on this forum who would like you to believe that somehow the kids selected by the new process are superior (the “talent over prep” crowd). There’s no basis for that claim. But that claim, importantly, is NOT being made by anyone involved with TJ or FCPS. The TJ Admissions Office for YEARS has been asserting that they could easily fill 3-4 classes (nearly 2000 kids) each year with students who are well qualified to be at TJ and who would be successful. What is happening now is that the old process favored a specific approach, meaning that essentially the same kids within that group were admitted every year. The new process does not favor that approach, so a different mix of those 2000 kids are being selected. And those kids are more likely to have diverse experiences at TJ as a result, which to me is a GREAT thing. The new kids aren’t better than the old kids, but the result of the new process is better for TJ overall.

- Every time I hear a comment like “parents working hard for their kids”, what is not so subtly communicated is that non-Asian families DON’T work hard for their kids and DON’T prioritize education. I’m going to put this as simply as I can - you don’t know what you’re talking about and that assertion is gross.

This person gets it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thumbs on the scale??? Are you referring to working our backsides off so that the kids do well? Well, we have no choice because we cannot pay off the crew or lacrosse coach and we are not 6'5" or 300 lbs. in 5th grade and so don't get into Basketball or Football teams. We do what we can with the tools we have.

Said the quiet part out loud here.

It is a pervasive attitude in certain cultures that elite school admission is an achievement of the parents and should be attributed mostly to parenting.

It’s so pervasive, in fact, that when you call it out on a forum such as this one, they don’t have the faintest idea of how it could possibly be considered problematic.

Not sure it’s any more problematic than having one special school, doling out admissions to that school based on an arbitrary factor such as geography and whether some random admissions officer can discern certain applicants are “disadvantaged,” and then expecting other people to buy into the assertion that the kids who ended up there are superior in any meaningful way to other students.

The former relies on parents working hard to support their children; the latter relies on the state’s insistence that we suspend common sense.

Goodness, the number of problems with this response.

- Geography isn’t “arbitrary”. Kids in different parts of Northern Virginia have significantly differing experiences and opportunities and huge sections of the catchment area were essentially cut out of the previous process. In the long run, it will be far better for TJ for families from all areas to believe that they can have access to the school and in the short run, it will be better for TJ kids to be exposed to kids from different backgrounds. If nothing else, it will be easier for many of them to get away from the racism and classism embedded by their parents before they get to college and make fools of themselves.

- Nowhere in the current admissions process is any evaluator “discerning” whether a student is disadvantaged. The experience factor points (which I disagree with, but that’s for a different topic) are doled out based on pre-existing identifiers. It’s not like the essay readers are saying “poor Jane Doe, she deserves to get into TJ because her life was so hard”.

- There are people on this forum who would like you to believe that somehow the kids selected by the new process are superior (the “talent over prep” crowd). There’s no basis for that claim. But that claim, importantly, is NOT being made by anyone involved with TJ or FCPS. The TJ Admissions Office for YEARS has been asserting that they could easily fill 3-4 classes (nearly 2000 kids) each year with students who are well qualified to be at TJ and who would be successful. What is happening now is that the old process favored a specific approach, meaning that essentially the same kids within that group were admitted every year. The new process does not favor that approach, so a different mix of those 2000 kids are being selected. And those kids are more likely to have diverse experiences at TJ as a result, which to me is a GREAT thing. The new kids aren’t better than the old kids, but the result of the new process is better for TJ overall.

- Every time I hear a comment like “parents working hard for their kids”, what is not so subtly communicated is that non-Asian families DON’T work hard for their kids and DON’T prioritize education. I’m going to put this as simply as I can - you don’t know what you’re talking about and that assertion is gross.

This person gets it.

You want tokenism to prevail over merit; we'll see how that goes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thumbs on the scale??? Are you referring to working our backsides off so that the kids do well? Well, we have no choice because we cannot pay off the crew or lacrosse coach and we are not 6'5" or 300 lbs. in 5th grade and so don't get into Basketball or Football teams. We do what we can with the tools we have.

Said the quiet part out loud here.

It is a pervasive attitude in certain cultures that elite school admission is an achievement of the parents and should be attributed mostly to parenting.

It’s so pervasive, in fact, that when you call it out on a forum such as this one, they don’t have the faintest idea of how it could possibly be considered problematic.

Not sure it’s any more problematic than having one special school, doling out admissions to that school based on an arbitrary factor such as geography and whether some random admissions officer can discern certain applicants are “disadvantaged,” and then expecting other people to buy into the assertion that the kids who ended up there are superior in any meaningful way to other students.

The former relies on parents working hard to support their children; the latter relies on the state’s insistence that we suspend common sense.

Goodness, the number of problems with this response.

- Geography isn’t “arbitrary”. Kids in different parts of Northern Virginia have significantly differing experiences and opportunities and huge sections of the catchment area were essentially cut out of the previous process. In the long run, it will be far better for TJ for families from all areas to believe that they can have access to the school and in the short run, it will be better for TJ kids to be exposed to kids from different backgrounds. If nothing else, it will be easier for many of them to get away from the racism and classism embedded by their parents before they get to college and make fools of themselves.

- Nowhere in the current admissions process is any evaluator “discerning” whether a student is disadvantaged. The experience factor points (which I disagree with, but that’s for a different topic) are doled out based on pre-existing identifiers. It’s not like the essay readers are saying “poor Jane Doe, she deserves to get into TJ because her life was so hard”.

- There are people on this forum who would like you to believe that somehow the kids selected by the new process are superior (the “talent over prep” crowd). There’s no basis for that claim. But that claim, importantly, is NOT being made by anyone involved with TJ or FCPS. The TJ Admissions Office for YEARS has been asserting that they could easily fill 3-4 classes (nearly 2000 kids) each year with students who are well qualified to be at TJ and who would be successful. What is happening now is that the old process favored a specific approach, meaning that essentially the same kids within that group were admitted every year. The new process does not favor that approach, so a different mix of those 2000 kids are being selected. And those kids are more likely to have diverse experiences at TJ as a result, which to me is a GREAT thing. The new kids aren’t better than the old kids, but the result of the new process is better for TJ overall.

- Every time I hear a comment like “parents working hard for their kids”, what is not so subtly communicated is that non-Asian families DON’T work hard for their kids and DON’T prioritize education. I’m going to put this as simply as I can - you don’t know what you’re talking about and that assertion is gross.

This person gets it.

You want tokenism to prevail over merit; we'll see how that goes.

Is your idea of merit test buying?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At this point it is clear it would be far better for the region if TJ was returned to use as a community school. It's just a political punching bag at this point, with partisans on each side claiming one version of TJ is better than the other.

This nonsense has already been addressed. Time to move on to a different talking point.

TJ is doing more than fine - the only real issue is the manufactured agita from the outside. And honestly, right now that's not impacting the kids to a huge degree.

Yeah, it is. Kids at TJ know there's a divide between the 9th/10th grade classes and the 11th/12th grade classes, and families know how politicized everything about TJ has become. The wheels have come off the Bonitati-bus.

Yes, the 9th and 10th graders seem have higher IQs. The 11th and 12th-grade students had better prep.

Again, I'm as pro-reform as anyone, but there is absolutely no basis for this assertion. Besides, IQ tests are just another standardized exam that tends to favor the wealthy. They can be prepped just as much as anything else.

What is absolutely true is that the new cohorts are creating a healthier environment because the class is significantly less streamlined. The old cohorts were toxic and hyper-competitive - NOT because they were "too Asian", but because they were too similar in terms of ambitions and intended pathways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thumbs on the scale??? Are you referring to working our backsides off so that the kids do well? Well, we have no choice because we cannot pay off the crew or lacrosse coach and we are not 6'5" or 300 lbs. in 5th grade and so don't get into Basketball or Football teams. We do what we can with the tools we have.

Said the quiet part out loud here.

It is a pervasive attitude in certain cultures that elite school admission is an achievement of the parents and should be attributed mostly to parenting.

It’s so pervasive, in fact, that when you call it out on a forum such as this one, they don’t have the faintest idea of how it could possibly be considered problematic.

Not sure it’s any more problematic than having one special school, doling out admissions to that school based on an arbitrary factor such as geography and whether some random admissions officer can discern certain applicants are “disadvantaged,” and then expecting other people to buy into the assertion that the kids who ended up there are superior in any meaningful way to other students.

The former relies on parents working hard to support their children; the latter relies on the state’s insistence that we suspend common sense.

Goodness, the number of problems with this response.

- Geography isn’t “arbitrary”. Kids in different parts of Northern Virginia have significantly differing experiences and opportunities and huge sections of the catchment area were essentially cut out of the previous process. In the long run, it will be far better for TJ for families from all areas to believe that they can have access to the school and in the short run, it will be better for TJ kids to be exposed to kids from different backgrounds. If nothing else, it will be easier for many of them to get away from the racism and classism embedded by their parents before they get to college and make fools of themselves.

- Nowhere in the current admissions process is any evaluator “discerning” whether a student is disadvantaged. The experience factor points (which I disagree with, but that’s for a different topic) are doled out based on pre-existing identifiers. It’s not like the essay readers are saying “poor Jane Doe, she deserves to get into TJ because her life was so hard”.

- There are people on this forum who would like you to believe that somehow the kids selected by the new process are superior (the “talent over prep” crowd). There’s no basis for that claim. But that claim, importantly, is NOT being made by anyone involved with TJ or FCPS. The TJ Admissions Office for YEARS has been asserting that they could easily fill 3-4 classes (nearly 2000 kids) each year with students who are well qualified to be at TJ and who would be successful. What is happening now is that the old process favored a specific approach, meaning that essentially the same kids within that group were admitted every year. The new process does not favor that approach, so a different mix of those 2000 kids are being selected. And those kids are more likely to have diverse experiences at TJ as a result, which to me is a GREAT thing. The new kids aren’t better than the old kids, but the result of the new process is better for TJ overall.

- Every time I hear a comment like “parents working hard for their kids”, what is not so subtly communicated is that non-Asian families DON’T work hard for their kids and DON’T prioritize education. I’m going to put this as simply as I can - you don’t know what you’re talking about and that assertion is gross.

This person gets it.

You want tokenism to prevail over merit; we'll see how that goes.

Nope. I want healthy environments for strong students to succeed and maximize their impact. You'll notice I didn't say "the strongest" or "the best and brightest" or "the most advanced" - I said "strong". And that's what's happening right now.

[Anonymous]

Interesting US selection system!

I wonder how a selection system based on standard test score leads to disparate impact? Common sense tells me the problem is either in the standard test or the foundational education of certain minority group. The answer is obvious latter. US needs to solve social economic disparity between racial groups to truly solve this problem.

TJ is a STEM high school aiming to provide advanced science and engineering education, who will build rockets, airplanes, bridge, trains and buildings in the future. Removing test score requirement to TJ and college admission only makes next generation live in a less safe place, where buildings collapse and planes crash, which is already happening.