Why do staunch republicans hate electric vehicles?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GM buys out nearly half of its Buick dealers across the country, who opt to not sell EVs
Detroit Free Press, December 20, 2023

General Motors said nearly half its Buick dealers took buyouts this year rather than invest in selling and servicing electric vehicles as the automaker's brands transition to all electric by 2030.

That means GM will end 2023 with about 1,000 Buick stores nationwide, down 47% from where it started the year.

Late last year, Buick said it would be asking dealers to commit a minimum investment of $300,000 to $400,000 to prepare their stores to sell and service EVs.

More: https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2023/12/20/gm-buick-dealerships-buyouts/71978066007/

There's a lot less to service on an EV. Dealers view their overpriced servicing as a major profit center.

Well there's one big hit when the battery is dead in 8-10 years and that's about half the price of the vehicle.

This is just FUD/BS. Automakers provide warranties on batteries for 8-10 years just like they do for gasoline powertrains but that doesn’t mean the batteries stop working after 8-10 years (and your cost estimate is crazy high too). You will lose a little range but you won’t be shelling out for repair costs like for a gasoline car.

“When mainstream electric cars first arrived, there was lots of concern that the batteries would fail and need replacing after just a few years. In reality, the cells fitted in models like the 2010 Leaf have proved to be very reliable, and most examples are still going strong with their original battery pack. There are even some Leafs with more than 200,000 miles on the clock.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Letter to Biden:
https://evvoiceofthecustomer.com

We are auto dealers from across the country who collectively sell every major brand in the U.S. We are small businesses employing thousands of Americans. We are deeply committed to the customers we serve and the communities where we operate, which is why we are asking you to slow down your proposed regulations mandating battery electric vehicle (BEV) production and distribution.

Your Administration has proposed regulations that would essentially mandate a dramatic shift to battery electric vehicles (BEVs), increasing year after year until 2032, when two out of every three vehicles sold in America would have to be battery electric.

Currently, there are many excellent battery electric vehicles available for consumers to purchase. These vehicles are ideal for many people, and we believe their appeal will grow over time. The reality, however, is that electric vehicle demand today is not keeping up with the large influx of BEVs arriving at our dealerships prompted by the current regulations. BEVs are stacking up on our lots.

Last year, there was a lot of hope and hype about EVs. Early adopters formed an initial line and were ready to buy these vehicles as soon as we had them to sell. But that enthusiasm has stalled. Today, the supply of unsold BEVs is surging, as they are not selling nearly as fast as they are arriving at our dealerships -- even with deep price cuts, manufacturer incentives, and generous government incentives.

While the goals of the regulations are admirable, they require consumer acceptance to become a reality. With each passing day, it becomes more apparent that this attempted electric vehicle mandate is unrealistic based on current and forecasted customer demand. Already, electric vehicles are stacking up on our lots which is our best indicator of customer demand in the marketplace.

Mr. President, no government agency, no think tank, and no polling firm knows more about the automobile customer than us. We talk to customers every day. As retail automotive dealerships, we are agnostic as to what we sell. Our business is to provide customers with vehicles that meet the needs of their budgets and lifestyles.

Some customers are in the market for electric vehicles, and we are thrilled to sell them. But the majority of customers are simply not ready to make the change. They are concerned about BEVs being unaffordable. Many do not have garages for home charging or easy access to public charging stations. Customers are also concerned about the loss of driving range in cold or hot weather. Some have long daily commutes and don’t have the extra time to charge the battery. Truck buyers are especially put off by the dramatic loss of range when towing. Today’s current technology is not adequate to support the needs of the majority of our consumers.

Many of these challenges can and will be addressed by our manufacturers, but many of these challenges are outside of their control. Reliable charging networks, electric grid stability, sourcing of materials, and many other issues need time to resolve. And finally, many people just want to make their own choice about what vehicle is right for them.

Mr. President, it is time to tap the brakes on the unrealistic government electric vehicle mandate. Allow time for the battery technology to advance. Allow time to make BEVs more affordable. Allow time to develop domestic sources for the minerals to make batteries. Allow time for the charging infrastructure to be built and prove reliable. And most of all, allow time for the American consumer to get comfortable with the technology and make the choice to buy an electric vehicle.
Sincerely,
Supporting Dealerships

Same people did not want unleaded gas, seat belts, etc.

I'm not against EVs. HOWEVER, and this is a big HOWEVER, YOU need to pay the full fare for the EV.

If you want to save the planet, pony up. No help from the tax payer. YOU pay for it, on your own.

The heavy subsidies after two decades (Prius, Nissan Leaf, etc.) forward floors me. You're buying a 40-70K car and after all this time, it's still not selling without big subsidies from DC (AKA, the taxpayer). Enough!

The only real benefit of the adoption of EVs is collective. You are saying you want to be a free rider and leave it to others to address lowering emissions while you are free to drive your Suburban. If you support full costs being built into the cost of cars, how about we incorporate the costs of increasing emissions and addressing climate change into the cost of your conventional car?

I disagree. I own 2 teslas and one other EV and I don't want people to rush to get EVs. Our grid cannot handle full scale adoption of EVs right now. And, other people driving gas combustion vehicles doesn't somehow cancel out the emissions reductions from the EVs. I'm Republican btw, and own 3x as many EVs as the average person.

EV charging is not even remotely a big harm or threat to the grid.

Even at current, low ownership rates, EV owners are asked not to charge during heatwaves. That does not inspire confidence. If every car were an EV car, they would all draw energy from the grid. And that's now, while we have basically enough energy to power everything. We aren't building new plants, and we have plans to shutter coal plants. This means energy production will decline as energy needs rise for EVs. There is not a plan for this. Our aspirations to "go green" defy the laws of physics.

We are building new sources of electricity— it just isn’t coal. There is a lot of wind and solar (and batteries to store their energy) coming on line because it’s cheap (although the Koch brothers keep trying to stop it). EVs can actually help there because they are a good store of energy for blackouts.

Crypto mining uses more electricity now than EVs would if half the market was EVs. It will take the US decades to get to mostly EVs in the new vehicle markets and there will be millions of gas vehicles for decades after that. The grid is perfectly capable of adapting to that gradual, relatively small increase in demand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GM buys out nearly half of its Buick dealers across the country, who opt to not sell EVs
Detroit Free Press, December 20, 2023

General Motors said nearly half its Buick dealers took buyouts this year rather than invest in selling and servicing electric vehicles as the automaker's brands transition to all electric by 2030.

That means GM will end 2023 with about 1,000 Buick stores nationwide, down 47% from where it started the year.

Late last year, Buick said it would be asking dealers to commit a minimum investment of $300,000 to $400,000 to prepare their stores to sell and service EVs.

More: https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2023/12/20/gm-buick-dealerships-buyouts/71978066007/

There's a lot less to service on an EV. Dealers view their overpriced servicing as a major profit center.

Well there's one big hit when the battery is dead in 8-10 years and that's about half the price of the vehicle.

This is just FUD/BS. Automakers provide warranties on batteries for 8-10 years just like they do for gasoline powertrains but that doesn’t mean the batteries stop working after 8-10 years (and your cost estimate is crazy high too). You will lose a little range but you won’t be shelling out for repair costs like for a gasoline car.

“When mainstream electric cars first arrived, there was lots of concern that the batteries would fail and need replacing after just a few years. In reality, the cells fitted in models like the 2010 Leaf have proved to be very reliable, and most examples are still going strong with their original battery pack. There are even some Leafs with more than 200,000 miles on the clock.”

This is accurate. You're expected to get less performance on the battery after 8 years, but it's not like they just go dead. They incrementally become less capable of a full charge.

Also, re golf carts. I'm a very unusual person in that I own EVs, a gas golf cart, and an electric golf cart. Electric golf carts tend to be cheaper than gas precisely because they aren't that great. Most single battery electric golf carts have a range of just 20 miles which is pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GM buys out nearly half of its Buick dealers across the country, who opt to not sell EVs
Detroit Free Press, December 20, 2023

General Motors said nearly half its Buick dealers took buyouts this year rather than invest in selling and servicing electric vehicles as the automaker's brands transition to all electric by 2030.

That means GM will end 2023 with about 1,000 Buick stores nationwide, down 47% from where it started the year.

Late last year, Buick said it would be asking dealers to commit a minimum investment of $300,000 to $400,000 to prepare their stores to sell and service EVs.

More: https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2023/12/20/gm-buick-dealerships-buyouts/71978066007/

There's a lot less to service on an EV. Dealers view their overpriced servicing as a major profit center.

Well there's one big hit when the battery is dead in 8-10 years and that's about half the price of the vehicle.

How many times will you repeat this false narrative? The batteries last 15-20 years and cost $5,000 to $12,000(for the most expensive cars like an $88,000 telsa). That price is no where near 1/2 the car cost and 8-10 years is not 15-20 years. The battery for the ford Mustang is $6,000 and has an 8 year warranty. The 8 year warranty is standard for EV. EV have very little maintenance- brakes and tires.

Gas powered cars are out of warranty at 5 years. Right when things start to break down and cost real money. At about 10 years the maintenance and repair cost of a gas power car start to exceeded its value and by 15 years it has reached its life cycle. Compared to an EV, gas powered car’s maintenance costs are twice the cost of an EV and the EV has a longer live expectancy.

[Anonymous]

If you check Kelly Blue Book now they will tell you that even over just 5 years the total cost of ownership of the F150 lightning is less than any other pickup, and the comparison only gets better after that

[Anonymous]

Lithium problem solved by a discovery of a motherlode in California

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/worlds-largest-ree-lithium-discovered-160012987.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Letter to Biden:
https://evvoiceofthecustomer.com

We are auto dealers from across the country who collectively sell every major brand in the U.S. We are small businesses employing thousands of Americans. We are deeply committed to the customers we serve and the communities where we operate, which is why we are asking you to slow down your proposed regulations mandating battery electric vehicle (BEV) production and distribution.

Your Administration has proposed regulations that would essentially mandate a dramatic shift to battery electric vehicles (BEVs), increasing year after year until 2032, when two out of every three vehicles sold in America would have to be battery electric.

Currently, there are many excellent battery electric vehicles available for consumers to purchase. These vehicles are ideal for many people, and we believe their appeal will grow over time. The reality, however, is that electric vehicle demand today is not keeping up with the large influx of BEVs arriving at our dealerships prompted by the current regulations. BEVs are stacking up on our lots.

Last year, there was a lot of hope and hype about EVs. Early adopters formed an initial line and were ready to buy these vehicles as soon as we had them to sell. But that enthusiasm has stalled. Today, the supply of unsold BEVs is surging, as they are not selling nearly as fast as they are arriving at our dealerships -- even with deep price cuts, manufacturer incentives, and generous government incentives.

While the goals of the regulations are admirable, they require consumer acceptance to become a reality. With each passing day, it becomes more apparent that this attempted electric vehicle mandate is unrealistic based on current and forecasted customer demand. Already, electric vehicles are stacking up on our lots which is our best indicator of customer demand in the marketplace.

Mr. President, no government agency, no think tank, and no polling firm knows more about the automobile customer than us. We talk to customers every day. As retail automotive dealerships, we are agnostic as to what we sell. Our business is to provide customers with vehicles that meet the needs of their budgets and lifestyles.

Some customers are in the market for electric vehicles, and we are thrilled to sell them. But the majority of customers are simply not ready to make the change. They are concerned about BEVs being unaffordable. Many do not have garages for home charging or easy access to public charging stations. Customers are also concerned about the loss of driving range in cold or hot weather. Some have long daily commutes and don’t have the extra time to charge the battery. Truck buyers are especially put off by the dramatic loss of range when towing. Today’s current technology is not adequate to support the needs of the majority of our consumers.

Many of these challenges can and will be addressed by our manufacturers, but many of these challenges are outside of their control. Reliable charging networks, electric grid stability, sourcing of materials, and many other issues need time to resolve. And finally, many people just want to make their own choice about what vehicle is right for them.

Mr. President, it is time to tap the brakes on the unrealistic government electric vehicle mandate. Allow time for the battery technology to advance. Allow time to make BEVs more affordable. Allow time to develop domestic sources for the minerals to make batteries. Allow time for the charging infrastructure to be built and prove reliable. And most of all, allow time for the American consumer to get comfortable with the technology and make the choice to buy an electric vehicle.
Sincerely,
Supporting Dealerships

Same people did not want unleaded gas, seat belts, etc.

I'm not against EVs. HOWEVER, and this is a big HOWEVER, YOU need to pay the full fare for the EV.

If you want to save the planet, pony up. No help from the tax payer. YOU pay for it, on your own.

The heavy subsidies after two decades (Prius, Nissan Leaf, etc.) forward floors me. You're buying a 40-70K car and after all this time, it's still not selling without big subsidies from DC (AKA, the taxpayer). Enough!

The only real benefit of the adoption of EVs is collective. You are saying you want to be a free rider and leave it to others to address lowering emissions while you are free to drive your Suburban. If you support full costs being built into the cost of cars, how about we incorporate the costs of increasing emissions and addressing climate change into the cost of your conventional car?

I disagree. I own 2 teslas and one other EV and I don't want people to rush to get EVs. Our grid cannot handle full scale adoption of EVs right now. And, other people driving gas combustion vehicles doesn't somehow cancel out the emissions reductions from the EVs. I'm Republican btw, and own 3x as many EVs as the average person.

EV charging is not even remotely a big harm or threat to the grid.

Even at current, low ownership rates, EV owners are asked not to charge during heatwaves. That does not inspire confidence. If every car were an EV car, they would all draw energy from the grid. And that's now, while we have basically enough energy to power everything. We aren't building new plants, and we have plans to shutter coal plants. This means energy production will decline as energy needs rise for EVs. There is not a plan for this. Our aspirations to "go green" defy the laws of physics.

We are building new sources of electricity— it just isn’t coal. There is a lot of wind and solar (and batteries to store their energy) coming on line because it’s cheap (although the Koch brothers keep trying to stop it). EVs can actually help there because they are a good store of energy for blackouts.

Crypto mining uses more electricity now than EVs would if half the market was EVs. It will take the US decades to get to mostly EVs in the new vehicle markets and there will be millions of gas vehicles for decades after that. The grid is perfectly capable of adapting to that gradual, relatively small increase in demand.

Yes, the power companies thank you for the forced tax payer subsidies.

[Anonymous]

Because they hate driving fun cars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
They suck. Batteries are a poor store of energy and have physical limits that will never reach the energy output of fossil fuel. There will not be an electric 747. Thousand pound batteries that lose half power in cold weather. Turn on the heat at zero degrees and totally screwed. Plus need fossil fuels to generate power to charge them (takes forever). Loss of power delivering over power lines as well.

They just can’t compete without massive subsidies. Head to head with no inflationary government borrowing and transferring to loser electric car production / financing they literally suck.

They use energy more efficiently than your gas engine. And they smoke your suburban at traffic lights. What sucks is being you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people are sheep. They follow their shepherd blindly. The head of the Republicans are paid by nicely oil and gas companies … hence the hatred of EVs.

Yes they are sheep. They are told what to think and are glad to follow the flock without questions. Look at the uneducated false talking points pushed out in this thread. Republicans want to return to the horse and buggy.

Shall we discuss who owns huge homes, multiple homes, multiple cars, private jets, etc?

I'd be delighted to talk about your bad taste and terrible aspirations. But we don't have to start with the jet you plan on buying with that lottery ticket. We can just start with that hot mess of a slow car you drive. I know it has to be large because you're fat? But there are other options.

PP here. Whatever sarcasm or name-calling gives you joy, have at it. I don't want politicians trying to force the use of electric cars on others when so many of the former aren't trying to conserve fuel and other resources at all.

That's not the real reason, it's a convenient excuse, or perhaps it was just on the whiteboard of your bot farm wall this morning, or posted on slack in that young Republicans channel you follow.

Adult people are not so simple-minded that they think things like, "I can't drive an electric car because other people fly in planes." Not on their own. If you're upset your politicians are flying in planes, tell them. I encourage you to do so. That's not what is stopping you from driving electric. What's stopping you is being too fat to fit in a Tesla 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people are sheep. They follow their shepherd blindly. The head of the Republicans are paid by nicely oil and gas companies … hence the hatred of EVs.

Yes they are sheep. They are told what to think and are glad to follow the flock without questions. Look at the uneducated false talking points pushed out in this thread. Republicans want to return to the horse and buggy.

Shall we discuss who owns huge homes, multiple homes, multiple cars, private jets, etc?

I'd be delighted to talk about your bad taste and terrible aspirations. But we don't have to start with the jet you plan on buying with that lottery ticket. We can just start with that hot mess of a slow car you drive. I know it has to be large because you're fat? But there are other options.

PP here. Whatever sarcasm or name-calling gives you joy, have at it. I don't want politicians trying to force the use of electric cars on others when so many of the former aren't trying to conserve fuel and other resources at all.

That's not the real reason, it's a convenient excuse, or perhaps it was just on the whiteboard of your bot farm wall this morning, or posted on slack in that young Republicans channel you follow.

Adult people are not so simple-minded that they think things like, "I can't drive an electric car because other people fly in planes." Not on their own. If you're upset your politicians are flying in planes, tell them. I encourage you to do so. That's not what is stopping you from driving electric. What's stopping you is being too fat to fit in a Tesla 3.

How old are you??

[Anonymous]

Current EVs are just a stepping stone to hydrogen powered cars I. Much the same way steam engines gave way to internal combustion engines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not aware of any Republican who hates EVs. What a bizarre topic. And one clearly made up.

Why does this forum attract the most deranged topics that have no credibility?

Your president just called electric cars “lunacy.” Does he think they give you cancer like he does with windmills?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people are sheep. They follow their shepherd blindly. The head of the Republicans are paid by nicely oil and gas companies … hence the hatred of EVs.

Yes they are sheep. They are told what to think and are glad to follow the flock without questions. Look at the uneducated false talking points pushed out in this thread. Republicans want to return to the horse and buggy.

Shall we discuss who owns huge homes, multiple homes, multiple cars, private jets, etc?

I'd be delighted to talk about your bad taste and terrible aspirations. But we don't have to start with the jet you plan on buying with that lottery ticket. We can just start with that hot mess of a slow car you drive. I know it has to be large because you're fat? But there are other options.

PP here. Whatever sarcasm or name-calling gives you joy, have at it. I don't want politicians trying to force the use of electric cars on others when so many of the former aren't trying to conserve fuel and other resources at all.

That's not the real reason, it's a convenient excuse, or perhaps it was just on the whiteboard of your bot farm wall this morning, or posted on slack in that young Republicans channel you follow.

Adult people are not so simple-minded that they think things like, "I can't drive an electric car because other people fly in planes." Not on their own. If you're upset your politicians are flying in planes, tell them. I encourage you to do so. That's not what is stopping you from driving electric. What's stopping you is being too fat to fit in a Tesla 3.

How old are you??

Much younger than your weight.

Adding to the electric car issue, I myself wonder "why can't Americans drive smaller cars and have fewer pedestrian deaths?"

The answer is the same, sadly. Too fat.

What's unfortunate is, the car makers who had to be dragged kicking and screaming into making electric cars in the first place now seem hell bent on making them enormous and heavy and inefficient. I'm not a fan of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most people are sheep. They follow their shepherd blindly. The head of the Republicans are paid by nicely oil and gas companies … hence the hatred of EVs.

Yes they are sheep. They are told what to think and are glad to follow the flock without questions. Look at the uneducated false talking points pushed out in this thread. Republicans want to return to the horse and buggy.

Shall we discuss who owns huge homes, multiple homes, multiple cars, private jets, etc?

I'd be delighted to talk about your bad taste and terrible aspirations. But we don't have to start with the jet you plan on buying with that lottery ticket. We can just start with that hot mess of a slow car you drive. I know it has to be large because you're fat? But there are other options.

PP here. Whatever sarcasm or name-calling gives you joy, have at it. I don't want politicians trying to force the use of electric cars on others when so many of the former aren't trying to conserve fuel and other resources at all.

That's not the real reason, it's a convenient excuse, or perhaps it was just on the whiteboard of your bot farm wall this morning, or posted on slack in that young Republicans channel you follow.

Adult people are not so simple-minded that they think things like, "I can't drive an electric car because other people fly in planes." Not on their own. If you're upset your politicians are flying in planes, tell them. I encourage you to do so. That's not what is stopping you from driving electric. What's stopping you is being too fat to fit in a Tesla 3.

How old are you??

Much younger than your weight.

Adding to the electric car issue, I myself wonder "why can't Americans drive smaller cars and have fewer pedestrian deaths?"

The answer is the same, sadly. Too fat.

What's unfortunate is, the car makers who had to be dragged kicking and screaming into making electric cars in the first place now seem hell bent on making them enormous and heavy and inefficient. I'm not a fan of that.

PP here. Even with your good points, it's really stupid to bring up weight, which doesn't apply to me at all. FWIW, we drive a Prius.