Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The new head of the Army already admitted, in Congressional testimony following this crash, that they should re-evaluate whether it makes sense to have training flights go through that corridor.

This is separate from the FAA's decision to restrict helicopter traffic in that area.

Some of you don't seem to understand that even if the pilots made horrible errors in judgment, they didn't choose to be there at that time. They didn't say "hey you know what would be cool -- let's do my annual night recertification next to a commercial airport at its busiest time! That will be awesome!" They were told, and they are in jobs where you do what you are told. And they died.

If you can’t fly at altitude required, quit.

Same for surgeons, anyone in heavy machinery around others, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new head of the Army already admitted, in Congressional testimony following this crash, that they should re-evaluate whether it makes sense to have training flights go through that corridor.

This is separate from the FAA's decision to restrict helicopter traffic in that area.

Some of you don't seem to understand that even if the pilots made horrible errors in judgment, they didn't choose to be there at that time. They didn't say "hey you know what would be cool -- let's do my annual night recertification next to a commercial airport at its busiest time! That will be awesome!" They were told, and they are in jobs where you do what you are told. And they died.

They were also told, in writing in class, verbal and in a laminated map instruction card to be at 200 ft altitude and on the east bank of the river.z

See how “following orders works” in a $6,000,000 large helicopter over an urban river area?

well it obviously did not work, which is the point.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I do think it’s odd all of the female pilot’s social media was completely scrubbed. But also her siblings and her parents.

You are personally snooping around random people's social media? Why?

Therre is no such thing as social media snooping. If one posts somethig that can be veiewed by strangers, it is de facto public.

Why are you doing it?

People who are saying that scrubbed social media to hide facts are stupid. The investigators will have access to ALL the facts. They will deep dive everything including all pilots histories.

There is no legitimate need to the public to see this and start ridiculous smearing and grasping at straws.

Exactly. The investigators need it. The no lifer, chronically online public does not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know that some people on here really want to blame the female pilot, but I ask you to ask yourselves if you were training someone and they were taking risks you weren’t comfortable with, isn’t it your responsibility to get them back into the realm of safety? And if the ATC is trying to make both pilots aware of a risk they are encountering, and you are in charge of answering, isn’t it your job to make sure you and the other pilot are aware of the risk the ATC is alerting you to before you answer in the affirmative and take responsibility for that risk?

Not trying to throw all the blame at the trainer, just think there was more than one failure here. I feel sorry for everyone involved in this situation.

And again, just to echo what other folks are saying, if this training was really just the return trip of the helo necessitated by some initial (and perhaps not really necessary) VIP trip, we deserve to know that, too.

No time to do that when 4 seconds later the PIC ignites a commercial passenger jet.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I know that some people on here really want to blame the female pilot, but I ask you to ask yourselves if you were training someone and they were taking risks you weren’t comfortable with, isn’t it your responsibility to get them back into the realm of safety? And if the ATC is trying to make both pilots aware of a risk they are encountering, and you are in charge of answering, isn’t it your job to make sure you and the other pilot are aware of the risk the ATC is alerting you to before you answer in the affirmative and take responsibility for that risk?

Not trying to throw all the blame at the trainer, just think there was more than one failure here. I feel sorry for everyone involved in this situation.

And again, just to echo what other folks are saying, if this training was really just the return trip of the helo necessitated by some initial (and perhaps not really necessary) VIP trip, we deserve to know that, too.

I think the copilot was equally culpable.

Why? Please be specific. And also please tell us your qualifications and experience that give you insight.

He was communicating with ATC and claimed to have eyes on the plane.

And he very well may have. He wasn't the one controlling where the helicopter went.

You have absolutely no idea what was going on in the helicopter. Let the NTSB issue their report and stop this pathological need to blame people before facts are known.

From the ATC video, the copilot, a male voice was reassuring ATC he has things under control. Up until 1-2 secs of the crash.

He sounded calm and clear, not panicked, so I don't think there was any disagreement between him and the pilot.

Not blaming anyone, but if it was some kind of error that led to this, all the three soldiers were equally wrong.

Why would the crew chief be “wrong?”

It was their responsibility to ensure safe flight operations

A crew chief is a mechanic. They are responsible for the equipment of the aircraft. A crew chief is not a pilot and does not have flight training. They have no control over the piloting. Both pilots outranked the crew chief.

[Anonymous]

I think people are especially interested in the VIP part of the flight because Trump himself started the whole conversation pointing fingers at the pilot and the ATC. Because he is so toxic and inhuman at times, it’s natural to wonder whether he himself is at fault somehow and/or was trying to draw attention elsewhere. I don’t know why some people here are so insistent that the VIP leg of the trip (if there was one) is totally irrelevant. That just makes no sense. Like, okay it’s irrelevant if you want to blame the pilot and DEI and the Biden administration where she served as an aide or whatever. But of course it’s not irrelevant if this helo flight was happening at this high traffic time because the helo had to return to base after an unnecessary VIP trip for Kid Rock. Let’s be real here.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:FWIW I’m hearing it was simulating getting a govt official to safety as it was a COG (continuity of government) exercise.

“The missions are routine: In the event of a catastrophe, helicopters are often employed to usher government officials to safety.”

This is not secret intel, it's a direct CNN quote, so why not say so? These routine simulation exercises were widely covered in the news in the past couple of days.

"The soldiers on the Black Hawk were conducting what Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth described as an annual nighttime training on 'a continuity of government mission.' The missions are routine: In the event of a catastrophe, helicopters are often employed to usher government officials to safety. Crew members had night vision goggles, the defense secretary said."

Ok … even if training to evacuate VIP’s is necessary, why tf was it necessary for the evacuation route to go through DCA? Makes no sense.

Since you seem to know definitively that it makes no sense, please tell us where does the evacuation route they were training on go from and to (such that it makes no sense to pass by DCA)?

There are published helicopter routes, which go right by DCA every day. They’ve been talking about this in the news since day one. It’s not that they “just decided” to go by DCA, this was one of the approved helicopter routes… training or not.

They were outside that route-- too close to DCA and too high.

… and that’s the consequence of having a training route next to a civilian airport.

Are you saying they’re all that incompetent they can’t stay on a river bank path at a consistent altitude on a clear night?

Cancel the whole program then. Call DOGE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know that some people on here really want to blame the female pilot, but I ask you to ask yourselves if you were training someone and they were taking risks you weren’t comfortable with, isn’t it your responsibility to get them back into the realm of safety? And if the ATC is trying to make both pilots aware of a risk they are encountering, and you are in charge of answering, isn’t it your job to make sure you and the other pilot are aware of the risk the ATC is alerting you to before you answer in the affirmative and take responsibility for that risk?

Not trying to throw all the blame at the trainer, just think there was more than one failure here. I feel sorry for everyone involved in this situation.

And again, just to echo what other folks are saying, if this training was really just the return trip of the helo necessitated by some initial (and perhaps not really necessary) VIP trip, we deserve to know that, too.

He wasn’t training her. He was evaluating her on a normal and routine flight. She should already have known how to flight. This wasn’t flight school. While yes, I do think he does have some fault, to what degree I don’t know. She was the one ultimately controlling the helicopter. Perhaps he couldn’t or didn’t have the capability to correct it in time

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The fact that military combat pilots couldn’t manage their mechanical sound helicopter safety around DC at night, in perfect weather with the help and clear guidance of ATC is frightening. Military combat operations and even medevac operations are 100x more dangerous and complex. I am hoping that is does come out there was some mechanical malfunction

Fighter pilot family - mechanical stuff is nonstop. We all triple check everything each time. Some fleets are in quite bad shape though- but no idea on Virg based blackhawks.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What people fail to understand is that these three crew members didn't independently decide to fly that route at that time. They were assigned. Someone else made that call.

If it was irresponsible to have a Black Hawk running that route on a training mission at that time, then that is on the higher ups who made that call.

Accidents are always possible and there are many, many examples of Black Hawks crashing and killing people. A training mission carries some risk. Even just a standard transport of a personnel to another base carries some risk and the risk goes up if you have a less experienced pilot in command, which this helicopter did.

You cannot direct anger at this helicopter crew the way you would someone joy riding on the highway. They were assigned this task and route, and the person who assigned it was better positioned than they were to know if this was an acceptable risk to take.

Untwist your pretzel brain please.

This route happens all the time, day and night.

This helo had a big problem go down, maybe the investigators will have the guts to tell us the truth of what it was.

Bro there was literally a near miss at DCA with a Blackhawk the day before this one.

Not sure why it is so hard to accept that running military training exercises *in the middle of an already crowded and famously tricky urban airport* is a bad idea. Especially since the head of the Army said so. This is true no matter whose fault this crash was.

Yep. It was just a matter of time. There are frequent near misses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know that some people on here really want to blame the female pilot, but I ask you to ask yourselves if you were training someone and they were taking risks you weren’t comfortable with, isn’t it your responsibility to get them back into the realm of safety? And if the ATC is trying to make both pilots aware of a risk they are encountering, and you are in charge of answering, isn’t it your job to make sure you and the other pilot are aware of the risk the ATC is alerting you to before you answer in the affirmative and take responsibility for that risk?

Not trying to throw all the blame at the trainer, just think there was more than one failure here. I feel sorry for everyone involved in this situation.

And again, just to echo what other folks are saying, if this training was really just the return trip of the helo necessitated by some initial (and perhaps not really necessary) VIP trip, we deserve to know that, too.

No time to do that when 4 seconds later the PIC ignites a commercial passenger jet.

Except that dude pilot answered affirmatively twice he saw the other aircraft and once was significantly before impact. And he agreed that they would follow behind. I don’t think you’d then allow pilot to move even closer forward to the danger (unless you don’t see it yourself, which would also then be your error) without being sure the pilot actually saw it. There was plenty of time after the first ATC warning.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:FWIW I’m hearing it was simulating getting a govt official to safety as it was a COG (continuity of government) exercise.

“The missions are routine: In the event of a catastrophe, helicopters are often employed to usher government officials to safety.”

This is not secret intel, it's a direct CNN quote, so why not say so? These routine simulation exercises were widely covered in the news in the past couple of days.

"The soldiers on the Black Hawk were conducting what Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth described as an annual nighttime training on 'a continuity of government mission.' The missions are routine: In the event of a catastrophe, helicopters are often employed to usher government officials to safety. Crew members had night vision goggles, the defense secretary said."

Ok … even if training to evacuate VIP’s is necessary, why tf was it necessary for the evacuation route to go through DCA? Makes no sense.

Since you seem to know definitively that it makes no sense, please tell us where does the evacuation route they were training on go from and to (such that it makes no sense to pass by DCA)?

There are published helicopter routes, which go right by DCA every day. They’ve been talking about this in the news since day one. It’s not that they “just decided” to go by DCA, this was one of the approved helicopter routes… training or not.

They were outside that route-- too close to DCA and too high.

… and that’s the consequence of having a training route next to a civilian airport.

Are you saying they’re all that incompetent they can’t stay on a river bank path at a consistent altitude on a clear night?

Cancel the whole program then. Call DOGE.

Have you not read any of the news reports explaining that actually yes this is a persistent problem and that there have been many near misses over the years with helicopters around DCA?

You don't have to "call DOGE" to "cancel the whole program." There are already procedures in place for stopping the practice of sending military helicopters past DCA at all hours. Sadly, it has taken a deadline incident to actually engage those procedures.

Speaking of DOGE though, I wonder what kind of deadly incident SpaceX will wind up experiencing to finally make Musk realize that the "unnecessary regulation" imposed on him by the FAA might actually be saving lives. Because rather than just follow regulations imposed by the FAA, he has instead bought the influence over the current president so that he can bully the last head of the FAA into resigning so he can get his way. Is DOGE going to "cancel the whole program" when it turns out that the regulations SpaceX is being asked to follow are actually necessary for civilian safety?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If she was such a perfect pilot let’s see her military records and all of her flight history. When was the last time she flew before the night in question? And who was the VIP they just dropped off?

What difference does the VIP make? This question keeps getting asked but I don't get how it would matter in the sequence of events that led to the cash.

How would the crash have happened at all if a VIP didn’t not want a ride? Not sure how you can’t see that.

No one onboard the BH made that decision. They took orders.

See posts above if you really want to know why it matters to know the VIP.

The point is, the 3 onboard did not CHOOSE to get that VIP. they are being vilified.

We want to know who the VIP was to know whether it waa truly an essential VIP trip. No one is
Blaming the crew for following orders. This goes above their heads.

The pilots need to fly regularly to keep their skills and hours up. They need to fly these specific routes regularly too as part of their training- as they were doing and getting signed off on that night. If not flying VIPs they still have to fly the hours and routes needed to keep proficient, even if not flying a VIP. How to do expect them to maintain skills? You think they can just circle over some open fields a few times per week and call it good?

Are you really this dense? No one is saying they don’t need training hours - only that the VIP flight may be the reason this “training” was shoehorned into such a dangerous time and place. The MAGA brain is so low wattage. Unreal.

Are YOU that dense? This particular night route was needed for their annual recertification- with or without the VIP drop off prior. They weren’t learning how to fly, it’s an annual sign off that they should have been able to do with zero issue. There was nothing at all complicated about it, the other plane did what it was supposed to do, ATC did what it was supposed to do. If the helicopter followed the very clear instructions and guidelines, everyone would be fine. But they didn’t. There is no indication of why this was anything but a routine flight

You can do a night route at 11pm though. You don't have to do it at a peak time for the airport. Especially for a training route, you'd think that that whoever assigned this training would have taken into account that this was a less experienced pilot, and especially given the myriad of close calls around National, including some in recent days, involving military helicopters, this particular training should not be scheduled for 8pm.

Unless the training was simply tacked on after a VIP drop off that had to happen at 7pm because the VIP said so.

I think the "training" was a tack on after ubering some coddled VIP home. Stressing that it was a "training" flight is fully meant to divert attention from the fact that someone got special treatment. The public should know who it was and why they had to take a BH home instead of a motor vehicle, like an ordinary mortal.

So what? This helicopter should be able to easily navigate the skies of DC at any time day or night in nearly any condition. You know they are meant to fly in war, right? The VIP trips make up a large part of their required flying hours

DC is not a warzone. It is largely civilian airspace. Safety needs to be the priority, not war games.

I understand that. But the point is these pilots should be skilled enough to go to war. And here we are, helicopter crashing into jet on a total normal flight for no obvious reason other than just poor flying skills. Hopefully the investigation sheds light on something, some other reason, otherwise we have to take a good hard look at pilots and their training- both to keep them and us safe and so they have the skills they need for complicated and dangerous conditions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new head of the Army already admitted, in Congressional testimony following this crash, that they should re-evaluate whether it makes sense to have training flights go through that corridor.

This is separate from the FAA's decision to restrict helicopter traffic in that area.

Some of you don't seem to understand that even if the pilots made horrible errors in judgment, they didn't choose to be there at that time. They didn't say "hey you know what would be cool -- let's do my annual night recertification next to a commercial airport at its busiest time! That will be awesome!" They were told, and they are in jobs where you do what you are told. And they died.

If you can’t fly at altitude required, quit.

Same for surgeons, anyone in heavy machinery around others, etc.

This is like arguing that it would be fine to conduct live fire urban warfare training in the middle of DC because they were told not to shoot civilians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know the latest assessment of altitude suggests that it could have been in the 200. The 360 reading in the plane’s control is only refreshed every 4 seconds. Not saying that will end up being correct or it changes the outcome of fault but let’s wait until the facts come out.

Well, the box from the belly of the CRJ has impact at 325 ft plus or minus 25 feet.

Get off the internet and listen to the source data.