Plane crash DCA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just don't understand the vilification of the soldiers. They seem properly qualified and don't appear to have any major red flags (yet.)

If helicopters "regularly" deviate from Rt. 4 and "everyone" knows this, than this sounds like a giant accident just waiting to happen, in which case the fault would lie with the FAA or whomever approves and supervises the Helo routes around DCA.

Stop it.

They crashed on route 1. They had route 4 a few mins later once more south. All different positioning requirements- because of the airport location.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There has been such a tight lid on the VIP leg of this flight.

There is NO WAY the "VIP" request isn't something that is bad optics.

Where are the journaliats who used to lurk around here?

Irrelevant. These rides and routes take place many times a week to consider, day and night.

[Anonymous]

Well I’m never getting in one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There has been such a tight lid on the VIP leg of this flight.

There is NO WAY the "VIP" request isn't something that is bad optics.

Where are the journaliats who used to lurk around here?

They weren’t on some special unauthorized route for a VIP. The VIP wasn’t part of this crash.

They were flying an authorized route that is frequently flown by helicopters and were getting signed off on their annual night training on this route when the crash occurred. This was a required evaluation they were doing AFTER whatever VIP business was done

The VIP leg is why they were training in the dark during the busiest hour at National. The public deserves to know who the VIP was and the purpose of the VIP trip.

is the implication that they added the training to justify the VIP trip?

They use the return legs of "VIP" trips as "training" legs very frequently.

If people knew how many BS VIP trips there are in the national airspace, it would be a scandal.

No one cares if they offer up a ride before or during a training op.

Stop with the if then, if then, if then, if then.

Altitude was off by double and so was river positioning. Investigation owes us the WHY.

If it was pilot error times 3 then get the army out of black hawks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she was such a perfect pilot let’s see her military records and all of her flight history. When was the last time she flew before the night in question? And who was the VIP they just dropped off?

What difference does the VIP make? This question keeps getting asked but I don't get how it would matter in the sequence of events that led to the cash.

How would the crash have happened at all if a VIP didn’t not want a ride? Not sure how you can’t see that.

No one onboard the BH made that decision. They took orders.

See posts above if you really want to know why it matters to know the VIP.

The point is, the 3 onboard did not CHOOSE to get that VIP. they are being vilified.

We want to know who the VIP was to know whether it waa truly an essential VIP trip. No one is
Blaming the crew for following orders. This goes above their heads.

The pilots need to fly regularly to keep their skills and hours up. They need to fly these specific routes regularly too as part of their training- as they were doing and getting signed off on that night. If not flying VIPs they still have to fly the hours and routes needed to keep proficient, even if not flying a VIP. How to do expect them to maintain skills? You think they can just circle over some open fields a few times per week and call it good?

Are you really this dense? No one is saying they don’t need training hours - only that the VIP flight may be the reason this “training” was shoehorned into such a dangerous time and place. The MAGA brain is so low wattage. Unreal.

Are YOU that dense? This particular night route was needed for their annual recertification- with or without the VIP drop off prior. They weren’t learning how to fly, it’s an annual sign off that they should have been able to do with zero issue. There was nothing at all complicated about it, the other plane did what it was supposed to do, ATC did what it was supposed to do. If the helicopter followed the very clear instructions and guidelines, everyone would be fine. But they didn’t. There is no indication of why this was anything but a routine flight

You can do a night route at 11pm though. You don't have to do it at a peak time for the airport. Especially for a training route, you'd think that that whoever assigned this training would have taken into account that this was a less experienced pilot, and especially given the myriad of close calls around National, including some in recent days, involving military helicopters, this particular training should not be scheduled for 8pm.

Unless the training was simply tacked on after a VIP drop off that had to happen at 7pm because the VIP said so.

I think the "training" was a tack on after ubering some coddled VIP home. Stressing that it was a "training" flight is fully meant to divert attention from the fact that someone got special treatment. The public should know who it was and why they had to take a BH home instead of a motor vehicle, like an ordinary mortal.

So what? This helicopter should be able to easily navigate the skies of DC at any time day or night in nearly any condition. You know they are meant to fly in war, right? The VIP trips make up a large part of their required flying hours

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW I’m hearing it was simulating getting a govt official to safety as it was a COG (continuity of government) exercise.

“The missions are routine: In the event of a catastrophe, helicopters are often employed to usher government officials to safety.”

This is not secret intel, it's a direct CNN quote, so why not say so? These routine simulation exercises were widely covered in the news in the past couple of days.

"The soldiers on the Black Hawk were conducting what Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth described as an annual nighttime training on 'a continuity of government mission.' The missions are routine: In the event of a catastrophe, helicopters are often employed to usher government officials to safety. Crew members had night vision goggles, the defense secretary said."

In the "event of catastrophe" they would ground the civilian flights. So the Army could rehearse this at 3am. Not 8:30pm on a Wednesday.

Or

They

Could

Fly

At

The

Correct, required

Altitude

And

Positioning

At DCA area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On Reddit, people said the wife of one of the pilots is being treated horribly. She had asked for people to share photos of her husband, and someone replied they should share photos of CRJ victims.

My call to everyone is to do something nice for others.

Text your government friend and let them know you appreciate their work.

Hold the door for someone.

Text a friend or family member, and let them know you love them.

Hope we can preserve aspects of a healthy society where we treat each other well.

It is shockingly insensitive for families of the helicopter pilots to be seeking that kind of attention under the circumstances.

Don’t think those families are less devastated? You suck.

Of course they're probably devastated. But sometimes it is not appropriate to publicly ask others to join in your grieving.

She posted on her personal facebook page. Presumably, the only people that would be looking at it and sharing would be her friends and family. If "the public" doesn't want to share and join in her grieving, they don't need to look at her page.

Or she might not have understood that some posts are set to public. Plenty of people don’t understand the Facebook post settings.

People assuming she set her FB post to public and then trashed her for that are—again—small-minded people who can not envision a variety of possibilities.

So she made a mistake. Just like the helicopter pilots. Luckily her mistake didn't kill 64 innocent people.

The grieving spouse didn't "make a mistake". Bullies targeted her. Don't victim blame here.

And you have no idea what happened on the helicopter or if any "mistakes" were made.

No one is blaming the victims-- the 64 innocent people on the airplane.

Just shut up. The three military members on the plane are victims too who died serving their country. People have accidents all the time. We don't crucify the people involved. You're a toxic ghoul.

Are you British? My MiL calls people ghouls too all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know that some people on here really want to blame the female pilot, but I ask you to ask yourselves if you were training someone and they were taking risks you weren’t comfortable with, isn’t it your responsibility to get them back into the realm of safety? And if the ATC is trying to make both pilots aware of a risk they are encountering, and you are in charge of answering, isn’t it your job to make sure you and the other pilot are aware of the risk the ATC is alerting you to before you answer in the affirmative and take responsibility for that risk?

Not trying to throw all the blame at the trainer, just think there was more than one failure here. I feel sorry for everyone involved in this situation.

And again, just to echo what other folks are saying, if this training was really just the return trip of the helo necessitated by some initial (and perhaps not really necessary) VIP trip, we deserve to know that, too.

I think the copilot was equally culpable.

Why? Please be specific. And also please tell us your qualifications and experience that give you insight.

He was communicating with ATC and claimed to have eyes on the plane.

And he very well may have. He wasn't the one controlling where the helicopter went.

You have absolutely no idea what was going on in the helicopter. Let the NTSB issue their report and stop this pathological need to blame people before facts are known.

From the ATC video, the copilot, a male voice was reassuring ATC he has things under control. Up until 1-2 secs of the crash.

He sounded calm and clear, not panicked, so I don't think there was any disagreement between him and the pilot.

Not blaming anyone, but if it was some kind of error that led to this, all the three soldiers were equally wrong.

Why would the crew chief be “wrong?”

It was their responsibility to ensure safe flight operations

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she was such a perfect pilot let’s see her military records and all of her flight history. When was the last time she flew before the night in question? And who was the VIP they just dropped off?

What difference does the VIP make? This question keeps getting asked but I don't get how it would matter in the sequence of events that led to the cash.

How would the crash have happened at all if a VIP didn’t not want a ride? Not sure how you can’t see that.

No one onboard the BH made that decision. They took orders.

See posts above if you really want to know why it matters to know the VIP.

The point is, the 3 onboard did not CHOOSE to get that VIP. they are being vilified.

We want to know who the VIP was to know whether it waa truly an essential VIP trip. No one is
Blaming the crew for following orders. This goes above their heads.

The pilots need to fly regularly to keep their skills and hours up. They need to fly these specific routes regularly too as part of their training- as they were doing and getting signed off on that night. If not flying VIPs they still have to fly the hours and routes needed to keep proficient, even if not flying a VIP. How to do expect them to maintain skills? You think they can just circle over some open fields a few times per week and call it good?

Are you really this dense? No one is saying they don’t need training hours - only that the VIP flight may be the reason this “training” was shoehorned into such a dangerous time and place. The MAGA brain is so low wattage. Unreal.

Are YOU that dense? This particular night route was needed for their annual recertification- with or without the VIP drop off prior. They weren’t learning how to fly, it’s an annual sign off that they should have been able to do with zero issue. There was nothing at all complicated about it, the other plane did what it was supposed to do, ATC did what it was supposed to do. If the helicopter followed the very clear instructions and guidelines, everyone would be fine. But they didn’t. There is no indication of why this was anything but a routine flight

You can do a night route at 11pm though. You don't have to do it at a peak time for the airport. Especially for a training route, you'd think that that whoever assigned this training would have taken into account that this was a less experienced pilot, and especially given the myriad of close calls around National, including some in recent days, involving military helicopters, this particular training should not be scheduled for 8pm.

Unless the training was simply tacked on after a VIP drop off that had to happen at 7pm because the VIP said so.

I think the "training" was a tack on after ubering some coddled VIP home. Stressing that it was a "training" flight is fully meant to divert attention from the fact that someone got special treatment. The public should know who it was and why they had to take a BH home instead of a motor vehicle, like an ordinary mortal.

So what? This helicopter should be able to easily navigate the skies of DC at any time day or night in nearly any condition. You know they are meant to fly in war, right? The VIP trips make up a large part of their required flying hours

DC is not a warzone. It is largely civilian airspace. Safety needs to be the priority, not war games.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On Reddit, people said the wife of one of the pilots is being treated horribly. She had asked for people to share photos of her husband, and someone replied they should share photos of CRJ victims.

My call to everyone is to do something nice for others.

Text your government friend and let them know you appreciate their work.

Hold the door for someone.

Text a friend or family member, and let them know you love them.

Hope we can preserve aspects of a healthy society where we treat each other well.

It is shockingly insensitive for families of the helicopter pilots to be seeking that kind of attention under the circumstances.

Don’t think those families are less devastated? You suck.

Of course they're probably devastated. But sometimes it is not appropriate to publicly ask others to join in your grieving.

She posted on her personal facebook page. Presumably, the only people that would be looking at it and sharing would be her friends and family. If "the public" doesn't want to share and join in her grieving, they don't need to look at her page.

Or she might not have understood that some posts are set to public. Plenty of people don’t understand the Facebook post settings.

People assuming she set her FB post to public and then trashed her for that are—again—small-minded people who can not envision a variety of possibilities.

So she made a mistake. Just like the helicopter pilots. Luckily her mistake didn't kill 64 innocent people.

The grieving spouse didn't "make a mistake". Bullies targeted her. Don't victim blame here.

And you have no idea what happened on the helicopter or if any "mistakes" were made.

No one is blaming the victims-- the 64 innocent people on the airplane.

Just shut up. The three military members on the plane are victims too who died serving their country. People have accidents all the time. We don't crucify the people involved. You're a toxic ghoul.

If the helicopter crew had survived, what repercussions would they be facing?

They'd almost certainly be court-martialed for flying outside their assigned route. The question is whether they'd face negligent homicide charges.

I'm not even sure they'd be courtmartialed. There would be an investigation. They'd want to rule out aircraft malfunction and other potential explanations first. They don't automatically court martial people when civilians die. A decision would be made based on the results of the investigation, whether or not to prosecute and if so for what (sometimes people are courtmartialed for behavior or lapses in judgment associated with an accident, but not for the accident itself).

What would happen if this accident had been caused by a TV news chopper?

Obviously that would need to be investigated as well. Lots of things can go wrong.

Yes, as a litigator, you'd have no way of knowing whether it was the fault of the pilot, the person who assigned the pilot that route, ATC, the mechanic who serviced the helicopter, the manufacturer of the helicopter, etc., until there'd been a thorough investigation of everything surrounding the accident.

What is the point of this kind of pile on if the end result is that we find out it was a mechanical malfunction or the pilot had a stroke? What possible reason could there be for speculating about this unless it is done in an open minded way to find answers, instead of to assign blame and judgment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What people fail to understand is that these three crew members didn't independently decide to fly that route at that time. They were assigned. Someone else made that call.

If it was irresponsible to have a Black Hawk running that route on a training mission at that time, then that is on the higher ups who made that call.

Accidents are always possible and there are many, many examples of Black Hawks crashing and killing people. A training mission carries some risk. Even just a standard transport of a personnel to another base carries some risk and the risk goes up if you have a less experienced pilot in command, which this helicopter did.

You cannot direct anger at this helicopter crew the way you would someone joy riding on the highway. They were assigned this task and route, and the person who assigned it was better positioned than they were to know if this was an acceptable risk to take.

Untwist your pretzel brain please.

This route happens all the time, day and night.

This helo had a big problem go down, maybe the investigators will have the guts to tell us the truth of what it was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW I’m hearing it was simulating getting a govt official to safety as it was a COG (continuity of government) exercise.

“The missions are routine: In the event of a catastrophe, helicopters are often employed to usher government officials to safety.”

This is not secret intel, it's a direct CNN quote, so why not say so? These routine simulation exercises were widely covered in the news in the past couple of days.

"The soldiers on the Black Hawk were conducting what Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth described as an annual nighttime training on 'a continuity of government mission.' The missions are routine: In the event of a catastrophe, helicopters are often employed to usher government officials to safety. Crew members had night vision goggles, the defense secretary said."

In the "event of catastrophe" they would ground the civilian flights. So the Army could rehearse this at 3am. Not 8:30pm on a Wednesday.

Or

They

Could

Fly

At

The

Correct, required

Altitude

And

Positioning

At DCA area.

Or
They
Could
Not
Fly
At
DCA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On Reddit, people said the wife of one of the pilots is being treated horribly. She had asked for people to share photos of her husband, and someone replied they should share photos of CRJ victims.

My call to everyone is to do something nice for others.

Text your government friend and let them know you appreciate their work.

Hold the door for someone.

Text a friend or family member, and let them know you love them.

Hope we can preserve aspects of a healthy society where we treat each other well.

It is shockingly insensitive for families of the helicopter pilots to be seeking that kind of attention under the circumstances.

Don’t think those families are less devastated? You suck.

Of course they're probably devastated. But sometimes it is not appropriate to publicly ask others to join in your grieving.

She posted on her personal facebook page. Presumably, the only people that would be looking at it and sharing would be her friends and family. If "the public" doesn't want to share and join in her grieving, they don't need to look at her page.

Or she might not have understood that some posts are set to public. Plenty of people don’t understand the Facebook post settings.

People assuming she set her FB post to public and then trashed her for that are—again—small-minded people who can not envision a variety of possibilities.

So she made a mistake. Just like the helicopter pilots. Luckily her mistake didn't kill 64 innocent people.

The grieving spouse didn't "make a mistake". Bullies targeted her. Don't victim blame here.

And you have no idea what happened on the helicopter or if any "mistakes" were made.

No one is blaming the victims-- the 64 innocent people on the airplane.

Just shut up. The three military members on the plane are victims too who died serving their country. People have accidents all the time. We don't crucify the people involved. You're a toxic ghoul.

If the helicopter crew had survived, what repercussions would they be facing?

A tribunal trial and likely civil cases

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The new head of the Army already admitted, in Congressional testimony following this crash, that they should re-evaluate whether it makes sense to have training flights go through that corridor.

This is separate from the FAA's decision to restrict helicopter traffic in that area.

Some of you don't seem to understand that even if the pilots made horrible errors in judgment, they didn't choose to be there at that time. They didn't say "hey you know what would be cool -- let's do my annual night recertification next to a commercial airport at its busiest time! That will be awesome!" They were told, and they are in jobs where you do what you are told. And they died.

They were also told, in writing in class, verbal and in a laminated map instruction card to be at 200 ft altitude and on the east bank of the river.z

See how “following orders works” in a $6,000,000 large helicopter over an urban river area?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What people fail to understand is that these three crew members didn't independently decide to fly that route at that time. They were assigned. Someone else made that call.

If it was irresponsible to have a Black Hawk running that route on a training mission at that time, then that is on the higher ups who made that call.

Accidents are always possible and there are many, many examples of Black Hawks crashing and killing people. A training mission carries some risk. Even just a standard transport of a personnel to another base carries some risk and the risk goes up if you have a less experienced pilot in command, which this helicopter did.

You cannot direct anger at this helicopter crew the way you would someone joy riding on the highway. They were assigned this task and route, and the person who assigned it was better positioned than they were to know if this was an acceptable risk to take.

Untwist your pretzel brain please.

This route happens all the time, day and night.

This helo had a big problem go down, maybe the investigators will have the guts to tell us the truth of what it was.

Bro there was literally a near miss at DCA with a Blackhawk the day before this one.

Not sure why it is so hard to accept that running military training exercises *in the middle of an already crowded and famously tricky urban airport* is a bad idea. Especially since the head of the Army said so. This is true no matter whose fault this crash was.