Told the wife she has no right to demand an answer...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My AP and I both have reasonably comfortable partnership-like marriages where there is zero sex or even physically intimate contact.

Divorce would be tough for both of us. Sexless life was unbearable. We didn't ask their permission to live normal lives again. In both marriages, once counseling failed to bring sex back both of our spouses realized they held the cards in a certain way. We didn't want to break up our lives and homes and couldn't do anything to make sex come back.

So after years of friendship, including during the sexless phases of our marriages, we solved the problem.

And I've no interest in our spouses' input. They didn't seek ours in ending sex.

Do they know?

They may not know other than that they're just not interested anymore, which is a pretty normal biological response as women age and hormones change. The consequence of it gets magnified, though, when a woman feels pressure not just to have sex when she could take it or leave it, but also to fake a high level of engagement and enjoyment. It's exhausting. But sex that is more "taking one for the team" isn't acceptable for many men, so there's no compromise that gives men the type of sex they expect without a whole lot of work on their part of their wives. And it's not like it's work that's even really appreciated, men don't treat that as an act of love their wives do for them that perhaps should warrant equivalent gestures of love back, many men see enthusiastic sex as a right they are entitled to demand of their wives, one that means their wives are failing in their marriages if they don't provide it.

But if, as a woman, you actually voice all of this to your husband, you have now utterly failed in your role as sex provider because you have destroyed the illusion that the sex you are having is work rather than something you are ecstatic about. So there's no honest conversation to be had on this issue, and women end up falling back on being "busy" or "tired" because those aren't as much of a threat to their husbands' egos/their marriages as "I just don't have much of a sex drive anymore."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My AP and I both have reasonably comfortable partnership-like marriages where there is zero sex or even physically intimate contact.

Divorce would be tough for both of us. Sexless life was unbearable. We didn't ask their permission to live normal lives again. In both marriages, once counseling failed to bring sex back both of our spouses realized they held the cards in a certain way. We didn't want to break up our lives and homes and couldn't do anything to make sex come back.

So after years of friendship, including during the sexless phases of our marriages, we solved the problem.

And I've no interest in our spouses' input. They didn't seek ours in ending sex.

Do they know?

They may not know other than that they're just not interested anymore, which is a pretty normal biological response as women age and hormones change. The consequence of it gets magnified, though, when a woman feels pressure not just to have sex when she could take it or leave it, but also to fake a high level of engagement and enjoyment. It's exhausting. But sex that is more "taking one for the team" isn't acceptable for many men, so there's no compromise that gives men the type of sex they expect without a whole lot of work on their part of their wives. And it's not like it's work that's even really appreciated, men don't treat that as an act of love their wives do for them that perhaps should warrant equivalent gestures of love back, many men see enthusiastic sex as a right they are entitled to demand of their wives, one that means their wives are failing in their marriages if they don't provide it.

But if, as a woman, you actually voice all of this to your husband, you have now utterly failed in your role as sex provider because you have destroyed the illusion that the sex you are having is work rather than something you are ecstatic about. So there's no honest conversation to be had on this issue, and women end up falling back on being "busy" or "tired" because those aren't as much of a threat to their husbands' egos/their marriages as "I just don't have much of a sex drive anymore."

Oops, quoted the wrong post, obviously this was about women and their reasons for not wanting sex, not about affairs.

[Anonymous]

Why is it that sex seems to be a right of marriage, but actual EQUAL partnership seems negotiable and not worth it to men.
I am not too tired for sex. I am too tired for sex with my DH after I work 45 hours a week at work, do carpooling for the kids both ways, all of the school related stuff, all of the grocery shopping, clothes shopping, cooking and vehicle maintenance (he rides public transport). He gets 60 minutes alone in the AM after the kids and I leave and gets to come home to a cooked meal every night there is not a kid activity.

I get the house vacumed 1x per week and the lawn mowed 1x per month.
WOW! Thanks, awesome.
Even when i ask for more help you would think i am asking him to cut off his penis and feed it to the dog.
But, when he crawls into bed at night and has sexual energy I should just jump up and down and do all i can to please him? Yeah, not really feeling that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My AP and I both have reasonably comfortable partnership-like marriages where there is zero sex or even physically intimate contact.

Divorce would be tough for both of us. Sexless life was unbearable. We didn't ask their permission to live normal lives again. In both marriages, once counseling failed to bring sex back both of our spouses realized they held the cards in a certain way. We didn't want to break up our lives and homes and couldn't do anything to make sex come back.

So after years of friendship, including during the sexless phases of our marriages, we solved the problem.

And I've no interest in our spouses' input. They didn't seek ours in ending sex.

Do they know?

They may not know other than that they're just not interested anymore, which is a pretty normal biological response as women age and hormones change. The consequence of it gets magnified, though, when a woman feels pressure not just to have sex when she could take it or leave it, but also to fake a high level of engagement and enjoyment. It's exhausting. But sex that is more "taking one for the team" isn't acceptable for many men, so there's no compromise that gives men the type of sex they expect without a whole lot of work on their part of their wives. And it's not like it's work that's even really appreciated, men don't treat that as an act of love their wives do for them that perhaps should warrant equivalent gestures of love back, many men see enthusiastic sex as a right they are entitled to demand of their wives, one that means their wives are failing in their marriages if they don't provide it.

But if, as a woman, you actually voice all of this to your husband, you have now utterly failed in your role as sex provider because you have destroyed the illusion that the sex you are having is work rather than something you are ecstatic about. So there's no honest conversation to be had on this issue, and women end up falling back on being "busy" or "tired" because those aren't as much of a threat to their husbands' egos/their marriages as "I just don't have much of a sex drive anymore."

That's really not true. When women of any age avoid the sex part it's more often to do with unresolved issues, and resentments. Those make a spouse very unappealing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is it that sex seems to be a right of marriage, but actual EQUAL partnership seems negotiable and not worth it to men.
I am not too tired for sex. I am too tired for sex with my DH after I work 45 hours a week at work, do carpooling for the kids both ways, all of the school related stuff, all of the grocery shopping, clothes shopping, cooking and vehicle maintenance (he rides public transport). He gets 60 minutes alone in the AM after the kids and I leave and gets to come home to a cooked meal every night there is not a kid activity.

I get the house vacumed 1x per week and the lawn mowed 1x per month.
WOW! Thanks, awesome.
Even when i ask for more help you would think i am asking him to cut off his penis and feed it to the dog.
But, when he crawls into bed at night and has sexual energy I should just jump up and down and do all i can to please him? Yeah, not really feeling that.

This is where he needs to cook and clean up a few nights of the week. Why should you have 2 jobs? He also needs to watch the kids so you get a night out to yourself. This is what we did and have been marriage long term. Some of my friends divorced for this very reason.

Have you talked to him about the division of household chores and kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it that sex seems to be a right of marriage, but actual EQUAL partnership seems negotiable and not worth it to men.
I am not too tired for sex. I am too tired for sex with my DH after I work 45 hours a week at work, do carpooling for the kids both ways, all of the school related stuff, all of the grocery shopping, clothes shopping, cooking and vehicle maintenance (he rides public transport). He gets 60 minutes alone in the AM after the kids and I leave and gets to come home to a cooked meal every night there is not a kid activity.

I get the house vacumed 1x per week and the lawn mowed 1x per month.
WOW! Thanks, awesome.
Even when i ask for more help you would think i am asking him to cut off his penis and feed it to the dog.
But, when he crawls into bed at night and has sexual energy I should just jump up and down and do all i can to please him? Yeah, not really feeling that.

This is where he needs to cook and clean up a few nights of the week. Why should you have 2 jobs? He also needs to watch the kids so you get a night out to yourself. This is what we did and have been marriage long term. Some of my friends divorced for this very reason.

Have you talked to him about the division of household chores and kids?

See, you can’t even correctly read a post for 30 seconds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is it that sex seems to be a right of marriage, but actual EQUAL partnership seems negotiable and not worth it to men.
I am not too tired for sex. I am too tired for sex with my DH after I work 45 hours a week at work, do carpooling for the kids both ways, all of the school related stuff, all of the grocery shopping, clothes shopping, cooking and vehicle maintenance (he rides public transport). He gets 60 minutes alone in the AM after the kids and I leave and gets to come home to a cooked meal every night there is not a kid activity.

I get the house vacumed 1x per week and the lawn mowed 1x per month.
WOW! Thanks, awesome.
Even when i ask for more help you would think i am asking him to cut off his penis and feed it to the dog.
But, when he crawls into bed at night and has sexual energy I should just jump up and down and do all i can to please him? Yeah, not really feeling that.

In the DC area for 32 years and I have never seen a woman mow the grass. None of may many female friends (ages 35-55) mows their own lawn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My AP and I both have reasonably comfortable partnership-like marriages where there is zero sex or even physically intimate contact.

Divorce would be tough for both of us. Sexless life was unbearable. We didn't ask their permission to live normal lives again. In both marriages, once counseling failed to bring sex back both of our spouses realized they held the cards in a certain way. We didn't want to break up our lives and homes and couldn't do anything to make sex come back.

So after years of friendship, including during the sexless phases of our marriages, we solved the problem.

And I've no interest in our spouses' input. They didn't seek ours in ending sex.

Do they know?

They may not know other than that they're just not interested anymore, which is a pretty normal biological response as women age and hormones change. The consequence of it gets magnified, though, when a woman feels pressure not just to have sex when she could take it or leave it, but also to fake a high level of engagement and enjoyment. It's exhausting. But sex that is more "taking one for the team" isn't acceptable for many men, so there's no compromise that gives men the type of sex they expect without a whole lot of work on their part of their wives. And it's not like it's work that's even really appreciated, men don't treat that as an act of love their wives do for them that perhaps should warrant equivalent gestures of love back, many men see enthusiastic sex as a right they are entitled to demand of their wives, one that means their wives are failing in their marriages if they don't provide it.

But if, as a woman, you actually voice all of this to your husband, you have now utterly failed in your role as sex provider because you have destroyed the illusion that the sex you are having is work rather than something you are ecstatic about. So there's no honest conversation to be had on this issue, and women end up falling back on being "busy" or "tired" because those aren't as much of a threat to their husbands' egos/their marriages as "I just don't have much of a sex drive anymore."

That's really not true. When women of any age avoid the sex part it's more often to do with unresolved issues, and resentments. Those make a spouse very unappealing.

You're disputing basic biology of aging? Sure, it can be what you described, but it also can be decreasing sex drive due to biological changes (and the unacceptability of that to some men). It's a well-documented medical phenomenon, hormone changes as women get into perimenopause (which typically starts in a woman's 40s but can start earlier and can last for years before a woman reaches actual menopause) cause changes to the vagina that make sex itself less pleasurable, and reduce the hormones that trigger sexual desire in women. Reduced sex drive is one of the classic symptoms of perimenopause.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it that sex seems to be a right of marriage, but actual EQUAL partnership seems negotiable and not worth it to men.
I am not too tired for sex. I am too tired for sex with my DH after I work 45 hours a week at work, do carpooling for the kids both ways, all of the school related stuff, all of the grocery shopping, clothes shopping, cooking and vehicle maintenance (he rides public transport). He gets 60 minutes alone in the AM after the kids and I leave and gets to come home to a cooked meal every night there is not a kid activity.

I get the house vacumed 1x per week and the lawn mowed 1x per month.
WOW! Thanks, awesome.
Even when i ask for more help you would think i am asking him to cut off his penis and feed it to the dog.
But, when he crawls into bed at night and has sexual energy I should just jump up and down and do all i can to please him? Yeah, not really feeling that.

This is where he needs to cook and clean up a few nights of the week. Why should you have 2 jobs? He also needs to watch the kids so you get a night out to yourself. This is what we did and have been marriage long term. Some of my friends divorced for this very reason.

Have you talked to him about the division of household chores and kids?

See, you can’t even correctly read a post for 30 seconds.

Calm down. I read it but didn't sound like has really voiced what a big problem it is. Why is she mowing the lawn? Asking for more help, and putting your foot down are two different things. I want to know how it's gotten this far.

[Anonymous]

Lack of sex destroys marriages. At this point it’s no longer reversible and my wife got what she wanted. I don’t look at her as a sexual partner anymore. I’ll be honest, it makes me want to not be around her and I feel no connection. So there’s that. It’s a sad state of affairs really.

Sorry OP, I feel you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it that sex seems to be a right of marriage, but actual EQUAL partnership seems negotiable and not worth it to men.
I am not too tired for sex. I am too tired for sex with my DH after I work 45 hours a week at work, do carpooling for the kids both ways, all of the school related stuff, all of the grocery shopping, clothes shopping, cooking and vehicle maintenance (he rides public transport). He gets 60 minutes alone in the AM after the kids and I leave and gets to come home to a cooked meal every night there is not a kid activity.

I get the house vacumed 1x per week and the lawn mowed 1x per month.
WOW! Thanks, awesome.
Even when i ask for more help you would think i am asking him to cut off his penis and feed it to the dog.
But, when he crawls into bed at night and has sexual energy I should just jump up and down and do all i can to please him? Yeah, not really feeling that.

This is where he needs to cook and clean up a few nights of the week. Why should you have 2 jobs? He also needs to watch the kids so you get a night out to yourself. This is what we did and have been marriage long term. Some of my friends divorced for this very reason.

Have you talked to him about the division of household chores and kids?

See, you can’t even correctly read a post for 30 seconds.

Calm down. I read it but didn't sound like has really voiced what a big problem it is. Why is she mowing the lawn? Asking for more help, and putting your foot down are two different things. I want to know how it's gotten this far.

Some of the things are logistics since he takes public transport and I drive, it makes sense for me to get the kids to/from school. It makes sense for me to order groceries and pick them up since i cook becuase i am home 30 minutes earlier than him (because i go in earlier). It makes sense i do the clothing shopping because the times he had done it he gets the incorrect sizes and we have to return things or he gets things the kids don't like.
The thing is ALL of these things add up slowly over time until you are burried under a mountain of shit and when you ask for help to get out of it the status quo must remain. I have talked until i am blue in the face and after each talk he will do 1 or 2 extra things. LIke throwing in laundry before he leaves for work but that lasts exactly ONE time and then we have to discuss again. It is exhausting.
I don't expect Choreplay, but if he expects routine and willing sex, he needs to put in routine effort into our partnership and not just enjoy the benefits of it and expect all of the rewards because he has a penis that needs to get attention.

The more men understand that their own actions likely contribute to the way their wives feel about them and the lust they feel toward them, the sooner marriages and sex lives can be turned around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it that sex seems to be a right of marriage, but actual EQUAL partnership seems negotiable and not worth it to men.
I am not too tired for sex. I am too tired for sex with my DH after I work 45 hours a week at work, do carpooling for the kids both ways, all of the school related stuff, all of the grocery shopping, clothes shopping, cooking and vehicle maintenance (he rides public transport). He gets 60 minutes alone in the AM after the kids and I leave and gets to come home to a cooked meal every night there is not a kid activity.

I get the house vacumed 1x per week and the lawn mowed 1x per month.
WOW! Thanks, awesome.
Even when i ask for more help you would think i am asking him to cut off his penis and feed it to the dog.
But, when he crawls into bed at night and has sexual energy I should just jump up and down and do all i can to please him? Yeah, not really feeling that.

This is where he needs to cook and clean up a few nights of the week. Why should you have 2 jobs? He also needs to watch the kids so you get a night out to yourself. This is what we did and have been marriage long term. Some of my friends divorced for this very reason.

Have you talked to him about the division of household chores and kids?

See, you can’t even correctly read a post for 30 seconds.

Calm down. I read it but didn't sound like has really voiced what a big problem it is. Why is she mowing the lawn? Asking for more help, and putting your foot down are two different things. I want to know how it's gotten this far.

Some of the things are logistics since he takes public transport and I drive, it makes sense for me to get the kids to/from school. It makes sense for me to order groceries and pick them up since i cook becuase i am home 30 minutes earlier than him (because i go in earlier). It makes sense i do the clothing shopping because the times he had done it he gets the incorrect sizes and we have to return things or he gets things the kids don't like.
The thing is ALL of these things add up slowly over time until you are burried under a mountain of shit and when you ask for help to get out of it the status quo must remain. I have talked until i am blue in the face and after each talk he will do 1 or 2 extra things. LIke throwing in laundry before he leaves for work but that lasts exactly ONE time and then we have to discuss again. It is exhausting.
I don't expect Choreplay, but if he expects routine and willing sex, he needs to put in routine effort into our partnership and not just enjoy the benefits of it and expect all of the rewards because he has a penis that needs to get attention.

The more men understand that their own actions likely contribute to the way their wives feel about them and the lust they feel toward them, the sooner marriages and sex lives can be turned around.

Most women wouldn't have sex with a spouse that does so little. That's a big turnoff OP.

If he wants frequent sex he may want to do his share so you're not so exhausted. I would make that very clear to him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My AP and I both have reasonably comfortable partnership-like marriages where there is zero sex or even physically intimate contact.

Divorce would be tough for both of us. Sexless life was unbearable. We didn't ask their permission to live normal lives again. In both marriages, once counseling failed to bring sex back both of our spouses realized they held the cards in a certain way. We didn't want to break up our lives and homes and couldn't do anything to make sex come back.

So after years of friendship, including during the sexless phases of our marriages, we solved the problem.

And I've no interest in our spouses' input. They didn't seek ours in ending sex.

Do they know?

They may not know other than that they're just not interested anymore, which is a pretty normal biological response as women age and hormones change. The consequence of it gets magnified, though, when a woman feels pressure not just to have sex when she could take it or leave it, but also to fake a high level of engagement and enjoyment. It's exhausting. But sex that is more "taking one for the team" isn't acceptable for many men, so there's no compromise that gives men the type of sex they expect without a whole lot of work on their part of their wives. And it's not like it's work that's even really appreciated, men don't treat that as an act of love their wives do for them that perhaps should warrant equivalent gestures of love back, many men see enthusiastic sex as a right they are entitled to demand of their wives, one that means their wives are failing in their marriages if they don't provide it.

But if, as a woman, you actually voice all of this to your husband, you have now utterly failed in your role as sex provider because you have destroyed the illusion that the sex you are having is work rather than something you are ecstatic about. So there's no honest conversation to be had on this issue, and women end up falling back on being "busy" or "tired" because those aren't as much of a threat to their husbands' egos/their marriages as "I just don't have much of a sex drive anymore."

Short Version: it's all men's fault so there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My AP and I both have reasonably comfortable partnership-like marriages where there is zero sex or even physically intimate contact.

Divorce would be tough for both of us. Sexless life was unbearable. We didn't ask their permission to live normal lives again. In both marriages, once counseling failed to bring sex back both of our spouses realized they held the cards in a certain way. We didn't want to break up our lives and homes and couldn't do anything to make sex come back.

So after years of friendship, including during the sexless phases of our marriages, we solved the problem.

And I've no interest in our spouses' input. They didn't seek ours in ending sex.

Do they know?

They may not know other than that they're just not interested anymore, which is a pretty normal biological response as women age and hormones change. The consequence of it gets magnified, though, when a woman feels pressure not just to have sex when she could take it or leave it, but also to fake a high level of engagement and enjoyment. It's exhausting. But sex that is more "taking one for the team" isn't acceptable for many men, so there's no compromise that gives men the type of sex they expect without a whole lot of work on their part of their wives. And it's not like it's work that's even really appreciated, men don't treat that as an act of love their wives do for them that perhaps should warrant equivalent gestures of love back, many men see enthusiastic sex as a right they are entitled to demand of their wives, one that means their wives are failing in their marriages if they don't provide it.

But if, as a woman, you actually voice all of this to your husband, you have now utterly failed in your role as sex provider because you have destroyed the illusion that the sex you are having is work rather than something you are ecstatic about. So there's no honest conversation to be had on this issue, and women end up falling back on being "busy" or "tired" because those aren't as much of a threat to their husbands' egos/their marriages as "I just don't have much of a sex drive anymore."

Short Version: it's all men's fault so there.

Wow, you really went out of the way to prove my point there. Thank you for doing it better than I ever could have done it myself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is it that sex seems to be a right of marriage, but actual EQUAL partnership seems negotiable and not worth it to men.
I am not too tired for sex. I am too tired for sex with my DH after I work 45 hours a week at work, do carpooling for the kids both ways, all of the school related stuff, all of the grocery shopping, clothes shopping, cooking and vehicle maintenance (he rides public transport). He gets 60 minutes alone in the AM after the kids and I leave and gets to come home to a cooked meal every night there is not a kid activity.

I get the house vacumed 1x per week and the lawn mowed 1x per month.
WOW! Thanks, awesome.
Even when i ask for more help you would think i am asking him to cut off his penis and feed it to the dog.
But, when he crawls into bed at night and has sexual energy I should just jump up and down and do all i can to please him? Yeah, not really feeling that.

Yeah, well, I do far more than 50% of the work in our house, and I'm still getting shut out sexually, so I would certainly not advise men to think that Moar Choreplay is going to get their wife wet.

PS most women totally ignore a lot of what men do, and discount what they do notice relative to the supposedly oh-so-hard work that they do, so you'll probably have to do at least five times the work she does before she'll even consider thinking that the partnership is "equal".