Stay at home mom

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

It’s not that they are knowingly competing for it. The engrained societal expectation is that most women work and handle everything or most things related to kids and the home. If you’re fortunate you’ll have a DH who takes on some tasks but he will do 30-40% of it max and you’ll need to assign him responsibilities. All the mental load will fall on you. Most young women in the marriage market aren’t aware of this. Ignorance is bliss until you’re a FT mom with young kids or you’re earning $0 because you had kids.

A few years ago I posted on here that I didn’t see how I could keep working my high earning/demanding job and have the second child my husband demanded. I shared my husband earns around $500k which could have influenced the responses attacking me. The consensus was that I’m unreasonable and my husband should/will leave me if I insist on quitting my job to have the second child. Some comments went as far to say my DH should find someone else to replace me and gladly work while having two young kids.

The sad reality is that most women don’t have the income to properly support a family on their own. Some do, but most do not. A man is still a ticket to more income and income to support the kids.

Stop telling people this because it makes them think that they have no choice but to marry losers like this. It just isn't true that there aren't any good men out there.

Also, if your husband is DEMANDING that you have a second child, your husband is an AH, I don't know what else to tell you. But guess what? Some of us aren't married to men who only do the bare minimum or who need to be assigned responsibilities and we sure as hell aren't married to men who would demand that we have another child.

Young women reading this - if you want to marry a man like OP who will agree that you should stay at home, that is fine, just be sure that you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. And if you want to marry a man who will agree to do his half of childcare and house management because you both work, that is also fine, just be sure you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. But don't settle and marry some loser who will demand that you have kids and then not help with them. It would be better to be single and childless than to be married to someone like that. Bottom line - know what you want, make it clear, and be picky. This is the rest of your life and your children's lives that you are signing up for. It should not be a decision to be taken lightly.

Women on here claim to have husbands doing 50/50. But I’ve never actually seen this in real life. While dads do a lot more than previous generations, it’s still the moms I know throwing birthday parties, handling sick days, planning the family vacations etc. Even when the DW is the higher earner. Almost all studies support this.

It’s disingenuous to act as though men doing 50% really is the norm.

Ok so what's your suggestion? That women just settle for men who don't do their share?

I don't know why you're calling me (or any of the other PPs) liars, but my husband does do 50%, actually maybe more than that if I'm being generous. One of our kids is in PT (they're in middle school now so sick days are a thing of the past) and he has been the one to take her to the last 8 appointments. I have only done 1. I know other men who do at least half. One of our best friends works, his wife does only very part-time, he also drives the kid more, cleans the house, and plans everything. His wife is subject to migraines and he is a Type A who does well with lots of tasks.

If it's not the norm for men to do half (and I never said it was the norm, by the way), then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. But telling women to just suck it up and marry these losers doesn't seem like a good answer to me. It's certainly not what I'm advising my own daughters (I don't have sons).

Most men I know take kids to appointments. The problem is you have to manage the appointments. They won’t make annual appointments or think to take the kid to the dentist. They don’t submit forms to schools. You’re not mentioning the planning and invisible labor. Your spouse is doing the visible stuff like most men.

Why are you so intent to make yourself right? Sure I validate your experience but many people and marriages do not have that same experience. My husband takes over the dentist, some sports, he knows and buys their shoe sizes etc etc. he does the whole thing. There are men like this. Many men. It does not invalidate your experience and I’m sorry that you feel this way. Please don’t invalidate mine.

[Anonymous]

High earning conservative/religious men are looking for sahm.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, I think it's more that you're jumping 20 steps ahead and so firm on logistics that are not imminent. It makes it seem like you'll be rigid about a lot things.

[Anonymous]

PS: I'm a SAHM right now. It was not my plan but something that made sense, at the moment, for our family. My DH and I weighed all the variables and it was the best solution. At some point, we'll re-assess. For now, we are both happy to be contributing to our family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

It’s not that they are knowingly competing for it. The engrained societal expectation is that most women work and handle everything or most things related to kids and the home. If you’re fortunate you’ll have a DH who takes on some tasks but he will do 30-40% of it max and you’ll need to assign him responsibilities. All the mental load will fall on you. Most young women in the marriage market aren’t aware of this. Ignorance is bliss until you’re a FT mom with young kids or you’re earning $0 because you had kids.

A few years ago I posted on here that I didn’t see how I could keep working my high earning/demanding job and have the second child my husband demanded. I shared my husband earns around $500k which could have influenced the responses attacking me. The consensus was that I’m unreasonable and my husband should/will leave me if I insist on quitting my job to have the second child. Some comments went as far to say my DH should find someone else to replace me and gladly work while having two young kids.

The sad reality is that most women don’t have the income to properly support a family on their own. Some do, but most do not. A man is still a ticket to more income and income to support the kids.

Stop telling people this because it makes them think that they have no choice but to marry losers like this. It just isn't true that there aren't any good men out there.

Also, if your husband is DEMANDING that you have a second child, your husband is an AH, I don't know what else to tell you. But guess what? Some of us aren't married to men who only do the bare minimum or who need to be assigned responsibilities and we sure as hell aren't married to men who would demand that we have another child.

Young women reading this - if you want to marry a man like OP who will agree that you should stay at home, that is fine, just be sure that you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. And if you want to marry a man who will agree to do his half of childcare and house management because you both work, that is also fine, just be sure you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. But don't settle and marry some loser who will demand that you have kids and then not help with them. It would be better to be single and childless than to be married to someone like that. Bottom line - know what you want, make it clear, and be picky. This is the rest of your life and your children's lives that you are signing up for. It should not be a decision to be taken lightly.

Women on here claim to have husbands doing 50/50. But I’ve never actually seen this in real life. While dads do a lot more than previous generations, it’s still the moms I know throwing birthday parties, handling sick days, planning the family vacations etc. Even when the DW is the higher earner. Almost all studies support this.

It’s disingenuous to act as though men doing 50% really is the norm.

Ok so what's your suggestion? That women just settle for men who don't do their share?

I don't know why you're calling me (or any of the other PPs) liars, but my husband does do 50%, actually maybe more than that if I'm being generous. One of our kids is in PT (they're in middle school now so sick days are a thing of the past) and he has been the one to take her to the last 8 appointments. I have only done 1. I know other men who do at least half. One of our best friends works, his wife does only very part-time, he also drives the kid more, cleans the house, and plans everything. His wife is subject to migraines and he is a Type A who does well with lots of tasks.

If it's not the norm for men to do half (and I never said it was the norm, by the way), then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. But telling women to just suck it up and marry these losers doesn't seem like a good answer to me. It's certainly not what I'm advising my own daughters (I don't have sons).

Thank you!

While there is always the possibility a spouse will unexpectedly change ( and imperative to have back up plans for that eventuality) it's possible to load the dice in your favor. Don't settle in your choice of partner. Or at least if you do, be really clear with yourself what you're sacrificing and think long and hard about whether the sacrifice is worth it. Make a spread sheet visualizing different life choices and journeys.This can be a difficult task for some 20 to 30 year olds. Do ask your elders for their lived experiences, the women who have lived through second and third wave feminism, read the theory, walked the walk, and have had time to reflect.. Frequently you will reject their advice, with good reason, but it gives you a historical perspective and a whole lot more data. It's not necessary to invent the wheel.

Decide what you want and say it. Kudos to OP! In my experience, strong, confident women, those able to articulate their life goals to others, have the best chance of achieving those goals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

It’s not that they are knowingly competing for it. The engrained societal expectation is that most women work and handle everything or most things related to kids and the home. If you’re fortunate you’ll have a DH who takes on some tasks but he will do 30-40% of it max and you’ll need to assign him responsibilities. All the mental load will fall on you. Most young women in the marriage market aren’t aware of this. Ignorance is bliss until you’re a FT mom with young kids or you’re earning $0 because you had kids.

A few years ago I posted on here that I didn’t see how I could keep working my high earning/demanding job and have the second child my husband demanded. I shared my husband earns around $500k which could have influenced the responses attacking me. The consensus was that I’m unreasonable and my husband should/will leave me if I insist on quitting my job to have the second child. Some comments went as far to say my DH should find someone else to replace me and gladly work while having two young kids.

The sad reality is that most women don’t have the income to properly support a family on their own. Some do, but most do not. A man is still a ticket to more income and income to support the kids.

Stop telling people this because it makes them think that they have no choice but to marry losers like this. It just isn't true that there aren't any good men out there.

Also, if your husband is DEMANDING that you have a second child, your husband is an AH, I don't know what else to tell you. But guess what? Some of us aren't married to men who only do the bare minimum or who need to be assigned responsibilities and we sure as hell aren't married to men who would demand that we have another child.

Young women reading this - if you want to marry a man like OP who will agree that you should stay at home, that is fine, just be sure that you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. And if you want to marry a man who will agree to do his half of childcare and house management because you both work, that is also fine, just be sure you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. But don't settle and marry some loser who will demand that you have kids and then not help with them. It would be better to be single and childless than to be married to someone like that. Bottom line - know what you want, make it clear, and be picky. This is the rest of your life and your children's lives that you are signing up for. It should not be a decision to be taken lightly.

Women on here claim to have husbands doing 50/50. But I’ve never actually seen this in real life. While dads do a lot more than previous generations, it’s still the moms I know throwing birthday parties, handling sick days, planning the family vacations etc. Even when the DW is the higher earner. Almost all studies support this.

It’s disingenuous to act as though men doing 50% really is the norm.

Ok so what's your suggestion? That women just settle for men who don't do their share?

I don't know why you're calling me (or any of the other PPs) liars, but my husband does do 50%, actually maybe more than that if I'm being generous. One of our kids is in PT (they're in middle school now so sick days are a thing of the past) and he has been the one to take her to the last 8 appointments. I have only done 1. I know other men who do at least half. One of our best friends works, his wife does only very part-time, he also drives the kid more, cleans the house, and plans everything. His wife is subject to migraines and he is a Type A who does well with lots of tasks.

If it's not the norm for men to do half (and I never said it was the norm, by the way), then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. But telling women to just suck it up and marry these losers doesn't seem like a good answer to me. It's certainly not what I'm advising my own daughters (I don't have sons).

Most men I know take kids to appointments. The problem is you have to manage the appointments. They won’t make annual appointments or think to take the kid to the dentist. They don’t submit forms to schools. You’re not mentioning the planning and invisible labor. Your spouse is doing the visible stuff like most men.

Speak for yourself. I'm the PP and my husband is the one who found the PT and has scheduled all of the appointments (then he puts them in the joint calendar). He's the one who handles the dentist and eye doctor appointments for all the kids and always has. I handle the pediatrician now because they're in middle school and they're girls so that makes sense. He is also the more likely of the two of us to respond to school emails and submit required forms. He's the one who researched in-network therapists for one of our kids. Honestly, if it were on me, some of this stuff just wouldn't get done.

So again, speak for your own husband who doesn't do things. Mine does see the invisible stuff and he does do planning. You can call me a liar all you want, it doesn't matter to me, I know what my life is like. I also have friends in similar situations (which I know because we talk about), but you'll just tell me I don't know what's going on behind closed doors.

Maybe ask yourself why you are so invested in making sure people who have good husbands are lying about it? Because it's weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

DP. I think a lot of couples butt heads on this stuff because women tend to have higher standards for meals, kid enrichment, cleanliness of home, fostering community ties... all of it.

[Anonymous]

Hi OP. I dont think you are being unreasonable atall, but you might want to just be a little more flexible. When I had my first, I never planned to go back into the office full time. But then, consultant for the company I worked for offered to hire me for 20 hours a week, then 40, and 12 years later I make my own schedule as long as I get the work done. I rely on my husbands benefits, but I bring in a really great amount of money. And I will tell you, the marriage isn't great 16 years in, and I am SO glad I never hit pause on my skills. If I were willing to go back into an office now that my kids are older and more self suffiicent, I believe I would be hired.

The other thing to consider with a future spouse is just how expensive kids actually are. If you are making under a certain amount of money, you barely break even sending that child (or multiples) to daycare, hiring a nanny, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

It’s not that they are knowingly competing for it. The engrained societal expectation is that most women work and handle everything or most things related to kids and the home. If you’re fortunate you’ll have a DH who takes on some tasks but he will do 30-40% of it max and you’ll need to assign him responsibilities. All the mental load will fall on you. Most young women in the marriage market aren’t aware of this. Ignorance is bliss until you’re a FT mom with young kids or you’re earning $0 because you had kids.

A few years ago I posted on here that I didn’t see how I could keep working my high earning/demanding job and have the second child my husband demanded. I shared my husband earns around $500k which could have influenced the responses attacking me. The consensus was that I’m unreasonable and my husband should/will leave me if I insist on quitting my job to have the second child. Some comments went as far to say my DH should find someone else to replace me and gladly work while having two young kids.

The sad reality is that most women don’t have the income to properly support a family on their own. Some do, but most do not. A man is still a ticket to more income and income to support the kids.

Stop telling people this because it makes them think that they have no choice but to marry losers like this. It just isn't true that there aren't any good men out there.

Also, if your husband is DEMANDING that you have a second child, your husband is an AH, I don't know what else to tell you. But guess what? Some of us aren't married to men who only do the bare minimum or who need to be assigned responsibilities and we sure as hell aren't married to men who would demand that we have another child.

Young women reading this - if you want to marry a man like OP who will agree that you should stay at home, that is fine, just be sure that you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. And if you want to marry a man who will agree to do his half of childcare and house management because you both work, that is also fine, just be sure you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. But don't settle and marry some loser who will demand that you have kids and then not help with them. It would be better to be single and childless than to be married to someone like that. Bottom line - know what you want, make it clear, and be picky. This is the rest of your life and your children's lives that you are signing up for. It should not be a decision to be taken lightly.

Women on here claim to have husbands doing 50/50. But I’ve never actually seen this in real life. While dads do a lot more than previous generations, it’s still the moms I know throwing birthday parties, handling sick days, planning the family vacations etc. Even when the DW is the higher earner. Almost all studies support this.

It’s disingenuous to act as though men doing 50% really is the norm.

Ok so what's your suggestion? That women just settle for men who don't do their share?

I don't know why you're calling me (or any of the other PPs) liars, but my husband does do 50%, actually maybe more than that if I'm being generous. One of our kids is in PT (they're in middle school now so sick days are a thing of the past) and he has been the one to take her to the last 8 appointments. I have only done 1. I know other men who do at least half. One of our best friends works, his wife does only very part-time, he also drives the kid more, cleans the house, and plans everything. His wife is subject to migraines and he is a Type A who does well with lots of tasks.

If it's not the norm for men to do half (and I never said it was the norm, by the way), then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. But telling women to just suck it up and marry these losers doesn't seem like a good answer to me. It's certainly not what I'm advising my own daughters (I don't have sons).

100%. I will never understand the mommy-martyrs.

It’s pretty easy to understand. Oftentimes the consequences of not doing something are worse if you just drop the rope. For example, the doctors appointments. My child would not be able to attend camp in two weeks without a form. I have to tell him to book and take her to the appointment. If I don’t, then what happens is she can’t go to camp. That’s sad for my daughter and also affects my ability to work. Should I miss work or should I just tell my husband to take her to the doctor

It’s examples like this over and over again.

Well, I'm the wife and my husband is the one who took the notes during the introduction to middle school sports meeting and set up the appointment for a physical for both of our daughters so they'd be able to play middle school sports next year. You're acting like men are incapable of doing things and they are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

I'm the PP and my husband and I both booked swim. He books things like sports and handles the pool and camp, I booked aftercare, the pediatrician and dentist and we both take them to these activities. I tend to handle the pets. We have a shared Google calendar.

I cook more than he does but I work from home so I can do a lot of crockpot type meals. I do more dishes, he does more laundry. The only thing we but heads on a bit is the litter boxes

My spouse definitely cares about my goals and dreams, he drove me to the LSAT and bar exam, quizzed me on the bar at the hotel. I read multiple drafts of his PhD thesis.

It is absolutely possible for a man to split things evenly.

My guess is your DH doesn’t earn a lot of money which is why he’s up for all of this.

I'm not the PP and my husband only has a masters but he does earn a lot of money and is still a present and involved dad, as much as I am a present and involved mom. He wanted kids so now he actively parents them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

It’s not that they are knowingly competing for it. The engrained societal expectation is that most women work and handle everything or most things related to kids and the home. If you’re fortunate you’ll have a DH who takes on some tasks but he will do 30-40% of it max and you’ll need to assign him responsibilities. All the mental load will fall on you. Most young women in the marriage market aren’t aware of this. Ignorance is bliss until you’re a FT mom with young kids or you’re earning $0 because you had kids.

A few years ago I posted on here that I didn’t see how I could keep working my high earning/demanding job and have the second child my husband demanded. I shared my husband earns around $500k which could have influenced the responses attacking me. The consensus was that I’m unreasonable and my husband should/will leave me if I insist on quitting my job to have the second child. Some comments went as far to say my DH should find someone else to replace me and gladly work while having two young kids.

The sad reality is that most women don’t have the income to properly support a family on their own. Some do, but most do not. A man is still a ticket to more income and income to support the kids.

Stop telling people this because it makes them think that they have no choice but to marry losers like this. It just isn't true that there aren't any good men out there.

Also, if your husband is DEMANDING that you have a second child, your husband is an AH, I don't know what else to tell you. But guess what? Some of us aren't married to men who only do the bare minimum or who need to be assigned responsibilities and we sure as hell aren't married to men who would demand that we have another child.

Young women reading this - if you want to marry a man like OP who will agree that you should stay at home, that is fine, just be sure that you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. And if you want to marry a man who will agree to do his half of childcare and house management because you both work, that is also fine, just be sure you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. But don't settle and marry some loser who will demand that you have kids and then not help with them. It would be better to be single and childless than to be married to someone like that. Bottom line - know what you want, make it clear, and be picky. This is the rest of your life and your children's lives that you are signing up for. It should not be a decision to be taken lightly.

Women on here claim to have husbands doing 50/50. But I’ve never actually seen this in real life. While dads do a lot more than previous generations, it’s still the moms I know throwing birthday parties, handling sick days, planning the family vacations etc. Even when the DW is the higher earner. Almost all studies support this.

It’s disingenuous to act as though men doing 50% really is the norm.

Ok so what's your suggestion? That women just settle for men who don't do their share?

I don't know why you're calling me (or any of the other PPs) liars, but my husband does do 50%, actually maybe more than that if I'm being generous. One of our kids is in PT (they're in middle school now so sick days are a thing of the past) and he has been the one to take her to the last 8 appointments. I have only done 1. I know other men who do at least half. One of our best friends works, his wife does only very part-time, he also drives the kid more, cleans the house, and plans everything. His wife is subject to migraines and he is a Type A who does well with lots of tasks.

If it's not the norm for men to do half (and I never said it was the norm, by the way), then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. But telling women to just suck it up and marry these losers doesn't seem like a good answer to me. It's certainly not what I'm advising my own daughters (I don't have sons).

Most men I know take kids to appointments. The problem is you have to manage the appointments. They won’t make annual appointments or think to take the kid to the dentist. They don’t submit forms to schools. You’re not mentioning the planning and invisible labor. Your spouse is doing the visible stuff like most men.

Why are you so intent to make yourself right? Sure I validate your experience but many people and marriages do not have that same experience. My husband takes over the dentist, some sports, he knows and buys their shoe sizes etc etc. he does the whole thing. There are men like this. Many men. It does not invalidate your experience and I’m sorry that you feel this way. Please don’t invalidate mine.

+1000

I'm a DP and I can't figure out why people like that PP are insistent that there are no good men. Is it insecurity because she didn't land one? I'll never get it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

DP. I think a lot of couples butt heads on this stuff because women tend to have higher standards for meals, kid enrichment, cleanliness of home, fostering community ties... all of it.

I'm a woman and I have no tolerance for women who complain that their husbands weren't willing to flip through Pinterest to put together an over-the-top first birthday for their kid. Some of that stuff is ridiculous. "Insuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports" is a classic example. These women want to be miserable so no matter what their husbands do they will set the goal posts farther away so that they will never succeed. Do that all you want, but it would be nice if you'd least acknowledge that you're the one doing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He’s worried that you’ll be a SAHM forever. Unless one spouse is making a really high income or you have family money it’s going to be tight to run a household with 3 kids.

+1 A lot of the UMC women who become SAHMs come from some family money or they have their own savings/investments/home equity/retirement from pre-kids.

They are not becoming SAHMS with 250k of debt from a useless degree (That their husband now has to pay back), no savings, and parents with no savings (that their husband has to eventually help pay for eldercare for).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

I'm the PP and my husband and I both booked swim. He books things like sports and handles the pool and camp, I booked aftercare, the pediatrician and dentist and we both take them to these activities. I tend to handle the pets. We have a shared Google calendar.

I cook more than he does but I work from home so I can do a lot of crockpot type meals. I do more dishes, he does more laundry. The only thing we but heads on a bit is the litter boxes

My spouse definitely cares about my goals and dreams, he drove me to the LSAT and bar exam, quizzed me on the bar at the hotel. I read multiple drafts of his PhD thesis.

It is absolutely possible for a man to split things evenly.

My guess is your DH doesn’t earn a lot of money which is why he’s up for all of this.

Nope, try again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mothers in law , my sister in law & I are stay at home Mom. I told my husband while we were dating that one day I will want to stay home after marry. He said that he has no problem but I have to make sure I will never regret my choice when I get older. I staying staying home 23 years of 27 years of marriage. So far, I have no regret. I am happy but we can save 2/3 times more if I work. Our saving is very good. You should say what you like while dating earlier on. Should not lie. Yes, more pressure on my husband as sole earner.

well given that you appear to be barely literate i doubt you would have gotten far in the workplace