Stay at home mom

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

And you better also be taking the time to care for his emotional wellbeing, goals, and dreams. And make him feel like he is #1 priority before the kids. Or he will leave you and it will be your fault. [This is sarcasm.]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

It’s not that they are knowingly competing for it. The engrained societal expectation is that most women work and handle everything or most things related to kids and the home. If you’re fortunate you’ll have a DH who takes on some tasks but he will do 30-40% of it max and you’ll need to assign him responsibilities. All the mental load will fall on you. Most young women in the marriage market aren’t aware of this. Ignorance is bliss until you’re a FT mom with young kids or you’re earning $0 because you had kids.

A few years ago I posted on here that I didn’t see how I could keep working my high earning/demanding job and have the second child my husband demanded. I shared my husband earns around $500k which could have influenced the responses attacking me. The consensus was that I’m unreasonable and my husband should/will leave me if I insist on quitting my job to have the second child. Some comments went as far to say my DH should find someone else to replace me and gladly work while having two young kids.

The sad reality is that most women don’t have the income to properly support a family on their own. Some do, but most do not. A man is still a ticket to more income and income to support the kids.

Stop telling people this because it makes them think that they have no choice but to marry losers like this. It just isn't true that there aren't any good men out there.

Also, if your husband is DEMANDING that you have a second child, your husband is an AH, I don't know what else to tell you. But guess what? Some of us aren't married to men who only do the bare minimum or who need to be assigned responsibilities and we sure as hell aren't married to men who would demand that we have another child.

Young women reading this - if you want to marry a man like OP who will agree that you should stay at home, that is fine, just be sure that you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. And if you want to marry a man who will agree to do his half of childcare and house management because you both work, that is also fine, just be sure you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. But don't settle and marry some loser who will demand that you have kids and then not help with them. It would be better to be single and childless than to be married to someone like that. Bottom line - know what you want, make it clear, and be picky. This is the rest of your life and your children's lives that you are signing up for. It should not be a decision to be taken lightly.

DP. My DH certainly delivered his half for years. I watched that carefully in our relationship before we got married because I did not want to wind up like a lot of women wound up. He was a caretaker, he was responsible, he verbalized my value and labor, he initiated tasks and long term planning. Peach of a dad when our kid was born.

It all changed in a matter of months when he hit his late 40s.

It's all well and good to counsel women not to marry a loser. But most of us don't knowingly do so. I never would have married someone who told me I'd be the one carrying the load alone. People change. That's why you need a plan B and a plan C, and absent a strong prenup or independent wealth, most women should never step too far off the career track.

I'm sorry for what you experienced, that sounds awful. However, you aren't the dolt who had a second child because their unhelpful husband demanded it. You had your husband do a 180 on you, and frankly, I don't know what can be done about that other than to have backup plans, like you mentioned. Again, I'm sorry for what happened to you, I can't even imagine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

It’s not that they are knowingly competing for it. The engrained societal expectation is that most women work and handle everything or most things related to kids and the home. If you’re fortunate you’ll have a DH who takes on some tasks but he will do 30-40% of it max and you’ll need to assign him responsibilities. All the mental load will fall on you. Most young women in the marriage market aren’t aware of this. Ignorance is bliss until you’re a FT mom with young kids or you’re earning $0 because you had kids.

A few years ago I posted on here that I didn’t see how I could keep working my high earning/demanding job and have the second child my husband demanded. I shared my husband earns around $500k which could have influenced the responses attacking me. The consensus was that I’m unreasonable and my husband should/will leave me if I insist on quitting my job to have the second child. Some comments went as far to say my DH should find someone else to replace me and gladly work while having two young kids.

The sad reality is that most women don’t have the income to properly support a family on their own. Some do, but most do not. A man is still a ticket to more income and income to support the kids.

Stop telling people this because it makes them think that they have no choice but to marry losers like this. It just isn't true that there aren't any good men out there.

Also, if your husband is DEMANDING that you have a second child, your husband is an AH, I don't know what else to tell you. But guess what? Some of us aren't married to men who only do the bare minimum or who need to be assigned responsibilities and we sure as hell aren't married to men who would demand that we have another child.

Young women reading this - if you want to marry a man like OP who will agree that you should stay at home, that is fine, just be sure that you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. And if you want to marry a man who will agree to do his half of childcare and house management because you both work, that is also fine, just be sure you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. But don't settle and marry some loser who will demand that you have kids and then not help with them. It would be better to be single and childless than to be married to someone like that. Bottom line - know what you want, make it clear, and be picky. This is the rest of your life and your children's lives that you are signing up for. It should not be a decision to be taken lightly.

They all say that this will be the arrangement, and the vast majority of men don't follow through, especially after children arrive. This is a statistical fact and not my opinion.

Words are cheap. Do they do their half at home? Do they do their half with your pets? With planning vacations? Do they handle dealing with their own family? What about hosting parties? Anyone who believes whatever someone says with no actual actions is getting what they asked for. And I say this as someone who married at 27 to someone who SAID they would do all these things. Three years in and before we had kids (because I wasn't willing to just take their word for it), I got out because their actions didn't match what they said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

It’s not that they are knowingly competing for it. The engrained societal expectation is that most women work and handle everything or most things related to kids and the home. If you’re fortunate you’ll have a DH who takes on some tasks but he will do 30-40% of it max and you’ll need to assign him responsibilities. All the mental load will fall on you. Most young women in the marriage market aren’t aware of this. Ignorance is bliss until you’re a FT mom with young kids or you’re earning $0 because you had kids.

A few years ago I posted on here that I didn’t see how I could keep working my high earning/demanding job and have the second child my husband demanded. I shared my husband earns around $500k which could have influenced the responses attacking me. The consensus was that I’m unreasonable and my husband should/will leave me if I insist on quitting my job to have the second child. Some comments went as far to say my DH should find someone else to replace me and gladly work while having two young kids.

The sad reality is that most women don’t have the income to properly support a family on their own. Some do, but most do not. A man is still a ticket to more income and income to support the kids.

Stop telling people this because it makes them think that they have no choice but to marry losers like this. It just isn't true that there aren't any good men out there.

Also, if your husband is DEMANDING that you have a second child, your husband is an AH, I don't know what else to tell you. But guess what? Some of us aren't married to men who only do the bare minimum or who need to be assigned responsibilities and we sure as hell aren't married to men who would demand that we have another child.

Young women reading this - if you want to marry a man like OP who will agree that you should stay at home, that is fine, just be sure that you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. And if you want to marry a man who will agree to do his half of childcare and house management because you both work, that is also fine, just be sure you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. But don't settle and marry some loser who will demand that you have kids and then not help with them. It would be better to be single and childless than to be married to someone like that. Bottom line - know what you want, make it clear, and be picky. This is the rest of your life and your children's lives that you are signing up for. It should not be a decision to be taken lightly.

They all say that this will be the arrangement, and the vast majority of men don't follow through, especially after children arrive. This is a statistical fact and not my opinion.

Words are cheap. Do they do their half at home? Do they do their half with your pets? With planning vacations? Do they handle dealing with their own family? What about hosting parties? Anyone who believes whatever someone says with no actual actions is getting what they asked for. And I say this as someone who married at 27 to someone who SAID they would do all these things. Three years in and before we had kids (because I wasn't willing to just take their word for it), I got out because their actions didn't match what they said.

The challenge is there isn’t much to do before kids. Not much to plan for really. So it’s difficult to judge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

It’s not that they are knowingly competing for it. The engrained societal expectation is that most women work and handle everything or most things related to kids and the home. If you’re fortunate you’ll have a DH who takes on some tasks but he will do 30-40% of it max and you’ll need to assign him responsibilities. All the mental load will fall on you. Most young women in the marriage market aren’t aware of this. Ignorance is bliss until you’re a FT mom with young kids or you’re earning $0 because you had kids.

A few years ago I posted on here that I didn’t see how I could keep working my high earning/demanding job and have the second child my husband demanded. I shared my husband earns around $500k which could have influenced the responses attacking me. The consensus was that I’m unreasonable and my husband should/will leave me if I insist on quitting my job to have the second child. Some comments went as far to say my DH should find someone else to replace me and gladly work while having two young kids.

The sad reality is that most women don’t have the income to properly support a family on their own. Some do, but most do not. A man is still a ticket to more income and income to support the kids.

Stop telling people this because it makes them think that they have no choice but to marry losers like this. It just isn't true that there aren't any good men out there.

Also, if your husband is DEMANDING that you have a second child, your husband is an AH, I don't know what else to tell you. But guess what? Some of us aren't married to men who only do the bare minimum or who need to be assigned responsibilities and we sure as hell aren't married to men who would demand that we have another child.

Young women reading this - if you want to marry a man like OP who will agree that you should stay at home, that is fine, just be sure that you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. And if you want to marry a man who will agree to do his half of childcare and house management because you both work, that is also fine, just be sure you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. But don't settle and marry some loser who will demand that you have kids and then not help with them. It would be better to be single and childless than to be married to someone like that. Bottom line - know what you want, make it clear, and be picky. This is the rest of your life and your children's lives that you are signing up for. It should not be a decision to be taken lightly.

Women on here claim to have husbands doing 50/50. But I’ve never actually seen this in real life. While dads do a lot more than previous generations, it’s still the moms I know throwing birthday parties, handling sick days, planning the family vacations etc. Even when the DW is the higher earner. Almost all studies support this.

It’s disingenuous to act as though men doing 50% really is the norm.

Ok so what's your suggestion? That women just settle for men who don't do their share?

I don't know why you're calling me (or any of the other PPs) liars, but my husband does do 50%, actually maybe more than that if I'm being generous. One of our kids is in PT (they're in middle school now so sick days are a thing of the past) and he has been the one to take her to the last 8 appointments. I have only done 1. I know other men who do at least half. One of our best friends works, his wife does only very part-time, he also drives the kid more, cleans the house, and plans everything. His wife is subject to migraines and he is a Type A who does well with lots of tasks.

If it's not the norm for men to do half (and I never said it was the norm, by the way), then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. But telling women to just suck it up and marry these losers doesn't seem like a good answer to me. It's certainly not what I'm advising my own daughters (I don't have sons).

[Anonymous]

I didn't read every post, but haven't seen the special needs wild card mentioned. We were doing really well and frankly were a bit smug that somehow we'd figured out parenting and were great at division of labor. Honestly I really thought that other people were idiots or lazy because it all seemed so easy. Then we had a kid who developed some behaviors which made school and life in general very challenging. We'd raised all of our children in the same environment and our oldest were doing well and thriving but somehow the youngest was completely off the rails. Had to quit my job. Relationship with spouse has been strained because of the intense financial and emotional stress.

Maybe this as a corner case, but my point is that when it comes to parenting and raising a family, you have to be flexible and there is no one right answer. The most important part is that you find a partner who is on the same page (and even then, that doesn't guarantee your future because people do change or show their true colors under stress). Do keep your hand in some sort of work and income if at all possible unless you live in a very low COL place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

I think what you're missing is that a 50/50 split doesn't mean you do trash and I do laundry, you do dogs and I do Christmas shopping. It's that this week there are things that will take 20 hours to do, whether those things are physical labor (i.e. mowing the lawn) or mental labor (i.e. researching in-network PT options). We will each do 10 hours of work to get all the things done. And it's not a weekly thing, some weeks one of us is doing more than the other and vice versa, but it's fine because we know the other isn't looking to shirk responsibility. We're a team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

Why did you marry and have kids with someone who doesn't give AF about your emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

It’s not that they are knowingly competing for it. The engrained societal expectation is that most women work and handle everything or most things related to kids and the home. If you’re fortunate you’ll have a DH who takes on some tasks but he will do 30-40% of it max and you’ll need to assign him responsibilities. All the mental load will fall on you. Most young women in the marriage market aren’t aware of this. Ignorance is bliss until you’re a FT mom with young kids or you’re earning $0 because you had kids.

A few years ago I posted on here that I didn’t see how I could keep working my high earning/demanding job and have the second child my husband demanded. I shared my husband earns around $500k which could have influenced the responses attacking me. The consensus was that I’m unreasonable and my husband should/will leave me if I insist on quitting my job to have the second child. Some comments went as far to say my DH should find someone else to replace me and gladly work while having two young kids.

The sad reality is that most women don’t have the income to properly support a family on their own. Some do, but most do not. A man is still a ticket to more income and income to support the kids.

Stop telling people this because it makes them think that they have no choice but to marry losers like this. It just isn't true that there aren't any good men out there.

Also, if your husband is DEMANDING that you have a second child, your husband is an AH, I don't know what else to tell you. But guess what? Some of us aren't married to men who only do the bare minimum or who need to be assigned responsibilities and we sure as hell aren't married to men who would demand that we have another child.

Young women reading this - if you want to marry a man like OP who will agree that you should stay at home, that is fine, just be sure that you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. And if you want to marry a man who will agree to do his half of childcare and house management because you both work, that is also fine, just be sure you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. But don't settle and marry some loser who will demand that you have kids and then not help with them. It would be better to be single and childless than to be married to someone like that. Bottom line - know what you want, make it clear, and be picky. This is the rest of your life and your children's lives that you are signing up for. It should not be a decision to be taken lightly.

They all say that this will be the arrangement, and the vast majority of men don't follow through, especially after children arrive. This is a statistical fact and not my opinion.

Words are cheap. Do they do their half at home? Do they do their half with your pets? With planning vacations? Do they handle dealing with their own family? What about hosting parties? Anyone who believes whatever someone says with no actual actions is getting what they asked for. And I say this as someone who married at 27 to someone who SAID they would do all these things. Three years in and before we had kids (because I wasn't willing to just take their word for it), I got out because their actions didn't match what they said.

The challenge is there isn’t much to do before kids. Not much to plan for really. So it’s difficult to judge.

Obviously kids are more work but all of the things listed above can be done before kids. If you're dating someone and they want you to schedule the holiday get togethers with their family and buy the presents - red flag. If you are taking a trip and that person wants you to do all the planning - red flag. If you host a party and they'll "do what you tell them" but won't step back and figure out what needs to be done - red flag. Get a pet - see how they handle it. I gathered a lot of intel about my current husband before getting married and having children with him because I wasn't going to make the mistake of being with someone who wasn't going to do their share of life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

It’s not that they are knowingly competing for it. The engrained societal expectation is that most women work and handle everything or most things related to kids and the home. If you’re fortunate you’ll have a DH who takes on some tasks but he will do 30-40% of it max and you’ll need to assign him responsibilities. All the mental load will fall on you. Most young women in the marriage market aren’t aware of this. Ignorance is bliss until you’re a FT mom with young kids or you’re earning $0 because you had kids.

A few years ago I posted on here that I didn’t see how I could keep working my high earning/demanding job and have the second child my husband demanded. I shared my husband earns around $500k which could have influenced the responses attacking me. The consensus was that I’m unreasonable and my husband should/will leave me if I insist on quitting my job to have the second child. Some comments went as far to say my DH should find someone else to replace me and gladly work while having two young kids.

The sad reality is that most women don’t have the income to properly support a family on their own. Some do, but most do not. A man is still a ticket to more income and income to support the kids.

Stop telling people this because it makes them think that they have no choice but to marry losers like this. It just isn't true that there aren't any good men out there.

Also, if your husband is DEMANDING that you have a second child, your husband is an AH, I don't know what else to tell you. But guess what? Some of us aren't married to men who only do the bare minimum or who need to be assigned responsibilities and we sure as hell aren't married to men who would demand that we have another child.

Young women reading this - if you want to marry a man like OP who will agree that you should stay at home, that is fine, just be sure that you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. And if you want to marry a man who will agree to do his half of childcare and house management because you both work, that is also fine, just be sure you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. But don't settle and marry some loser who will demand that you have kids and then not help with them. It would be better to be single and childless than to be married to someone like that. Bottom line - know what you want, make it clear, and be picky. This is the rest of your life and your children's lives that you are signing up for. It should not be a decision to be taken lightly.

Women on here claim to have husbands doing 50/50. But I’ve never actually seen this in real life. While dads do a lot more than previous generations, it’s still the moms I know throwing birthday parties, handling sick days, planning the family vacations etc. Even when the DW is the higher earner. Almost all studies support this.

It’s disingenuous to act as though men doing 50% really is the norm.

Ok so what's your suggestion? That women just settle for men who don't do their share?

I don't know why you're calling me (or any of the other PPs) liars, but my husband does do 50%, actually maybe more than that if I'm being generous. One of our kids is in PT (they're in middle school now so sick days are a thing of the past) and he has been the one to take her to the last 8 appointments. I have only done 1. I know other men who do at least half. One of our best friends works, his wife does only very part-time, he also drives the kid more, cleans the house, and plans everything. His wife is subject to migraines and he is a Type A who does well with lots of tasks.

If it's not the norm for men to do half (and I never said it was the norm, by the way), then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. But telling women to just suck it up and marry these losers doesn't seem like a good answer to me. It's certainly not what I'm advising my own daughters (I don't have sons).

100%. I will never understand the mommy-martyrs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

I'm the PP and my husband and I both booked swim. He books things like sports and handles the pool and camp, I booked aftercare, the pediatrician and dentist and we both take them to these activities. I tend to handle the pets. We have a shared Google calendar.

I cook more than he does but I work from home so I can do a lot of crockpot type meals. I do more dishes, he does more laundry. The only thing we but heads on a bit is the litter boxes

My spouse definitely cares about my goals and dreams, he drove me to the LSAT and bar exam, quizzed me on the bar at the hotel. I read multiple drafts of his PhD thesis.

It is absolutely possible for a man to split things evenly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

It’s not that they are knowingly competing for it. The engrained societal expectation is that most women work and handle everything or most things related to kids and the home. If you’re fortunate you’ll have a DH who takes on some tasks but he will do 30-40% of it max and you’ll need to assign him responsibilities. All the mental load will fall on you. Most young women in the marriage market aren’t aware of this. Ignorance is bliss until you’re a FT mom with young kids or you’re earning $0 because you had kids.

A few years ago I posted on here that I didn’t see how I could keep working my high earning/demanding job and have the second child my husband demanded. I shared my husband earns around $500k which could have influenced the responses attacking me. The consensus was that I’m unreasonable and my husband should/will leave me if I insist on quitting my job to have the second child. Some comments went as far to say my DH should find someone else to replace me and gladly work while having two young kids.

The sad reality is that most women don’t have the income to properly support a family on their own. Some do, but most do not. A man is still a ticket to more income and income to support the kids.

Stop telling people this because it makes them think that they have no choice but to marry losers like this. It just isn't true that there aren't any good men out there.

Also, if your husband is DEMANDING that you have a second child, your husband is an AH, I don't know what else to tell you. But guess what? Some of us aren't married to men who only do the bare minimum or who need to be assigned responsibilities and we sure as hell aren't married to men who would demand that we have another child.

Young women reading this - if you want to marry a man like OP who will agree that you should stay at home, that is fine, just be sure that you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. And if you want to marry a man who will agree to do his half of childcare and house management because you both work, that is also fine, just be sure you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. But don't settle and marry some loser who will demand that you have kids and then not help with them. It would be better to be single and childless than to be married to someone like that. Bottom line - know what you want, make it clear, and be picky. This is the rest of your life and your children's lives that you are signing up for. It should not be a decision to be taken lightly.

Women on here claim to have husbands doing 50/50. But I’ve never actually seen this in real life. While dads do a lot more than previous generations, it’s still the moms I know throwing birthday parties, handling sick days, planning the family vacations etc. Even when the DW is the higher earner. Almost all studies support this.

It’s disingenuous to act as though men doing 50% really is the norm.

Ok so what's your suggestion? That women just settle for men who don't do their share?

I don't know why you're calling me (or any of the other PPs) liars, but my husband does do 50%, actually maybe more than that if I'm being generous. One of our kids is in PT (they're in middle school now so sick days are a thing of the past) and he has been the one to take her to the last 8 appointments. I have only done 1. I know other men who do at least half. One of our best friends works, his wife does only very part-time, he also drives the kid more, cleans the house, and plans everything. His wife is subject to migraines and he is a Type A who does well with lots of tasks.

If it's not the norm for men to do half (and I never said it was the norm, by the way), then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. But telling women to just suck it up and marry these losers doesn't seem like a good answer to me. It's certainly not what I'm advising my own daughters (I don't have sons).

Most men I know take kids to appointments. The problem is you have to manage the appointments. They won’t make annual appointments or think to take the kid to the dentist. They don’t submit forms to schools. You’re not mentioning the planning and invisible labor. Your spouse is doing the visible stuff like most men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

It’s not that they are knowingly competing for it. The engrained societal expectation is that most women work and handle everything or most things related to kids and the home. If you’re fortunate you’ll have a DH who takes on some tasks but he will do 30-40% of it max and you’ll need to assign him responsibilities. All the mental load will fall on you. Most young women in the marriage market aren’t aware of this. Ignorance is bliss until you’re a FT mom with young kids or you’re earning $0 because you had kids.

A few years ago I posted on here that I didn’t see how I could keep working my high earning/demanding job and have the second child my husband demanded. I shared my husband earns around $500k which could have influenced the responses attacking me. The consensus was that I’m unreasonable and my husband should/will leave me if I insist on quitting my job to have the second child. Some comments went as far to say my DH should find someone else to replace me and gladly work while having two young kids.

The sad reality is that most women don’t have the income to properly support a family on their own. Some do, but most do not. A man is still a ticket to more income and income to support the kids.

Stop telling people this because it makes them think that they have no choice but to marry losers like this. It just isn't true that there aren't any good men out there.

Also, if your husband is DEMANDING that you have a second child, your husband is an AH, I don't know what else to tell you. But guess what? Some of us aren't married to men who only do the bare minimum or who need to be assigned responsibilities and we sure as hell aren't married to men who would demand that we have another child.

Young women reading this - if you want to marry a man like OP who will agree that you should stay at home, that is fine, just be sure that you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. And if you want to marry a man who will agree to do his half of childcare and house management because you both work, that is also fine, just be sure you find one who is on board with that, because not all men are. But don't settle and marry some loser who will demand that you have kids and then not help with them. It would be better to be single and childless than to be married to someone like that. Bottom line - know what you want, make it clear, and be picky. This is the rest of your life and your children's lives that you are signing up for. It should not be a decision to be taken lightly.

Women on here claim to have husbands doing 50/50. But I’ve never actually seen this in real life. While dads do a lot more than previous generations, it’s still the moms I know throwing birthday parties, handling sick days, planning the family vacations etc. Even when the DW is the higher earner. Almost all studies support this.

It’s disingenuous to act as though men doing 50% really is the norm.

Ok so what's your suggestion? That women just settle for men who don't do their share?

I don't know why you're calling me (or any of the other PPs) liars, but my husband does do 50%, actually maybe more than that if I'm being generous. One of our kids is in PT (they're in middle school now so sick days are a thing of the past) and he has been the one to take her to the last 8 appointments. I have only done 1. I know other men who do at least half. One of our best friends works, his wife does only very part-time, he also drives the kid more, cleans the house, and plans everything. His wife is subject to migraines and he is a Type A who does well with lots of tasks.

If it's not the norm for men to do half (and I never said it was the norm, by the way), then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. But telling women to just suck it up and marry these losers doesn't seem like a good answer to me. It's certainly not what I'm advising my own daughters (I don't have sons).

100%. I will never understand the mommy-martyrs.

It’s pretty easy to understand. Oftentimes the consequences of not doing something are worse if you just drop the rope. For example, the doctors appointments. My child would not be able to attend camp in two weeks without a form. I have to tell him to book and take her to the appointment. If I don’t, then what happens is she can’t go to camp. That’s sad for my daughter and also affects my ability to work. Should I miss work or should I just tell my husband to take her to the doctor

It’s examples like this over and over again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately the standard is now that you work FT and handle all logistics, planning etc.

I don’t recommend having kids unless you go in with eyes wide open about this.

Even if your husband is supportive of you staying home, it’s a terrible move because it places you in a precarious position.

^^This. You need to realize, OP, that you are competing with women who will provide to a man all the benefits of SAHM (bear the mental load, handle all the newborn stuff while healing from a major medical event, clean, caretake, be first line of defense when kid is sick) and also be pulling in a few hundred Ks of salary. How do you market yourself to be more attractive than that?

Are women really competing to marry men like this? Why would anyone put up with this if they were capable of pulling in a few hundred KS of salary? At that point it makes absolute sense to me to save and plan for single parenthood ( as a PP suggested) while remaining open to finding the right partner.

I have no idea - I would have never gotten married or had kids with my husband if the deal hadn't been that we would both be 50% caretakers of the kids. Even at the beginning we did bottle feeding so he could participate. No way would I work the same amount of hours and make the same amount of money only to do more around the house or with the kids. Why anyone signs up for that deal is beyond me.

My spouse and I also split things evenly. I did take on more in the beginning because I chose to breastfeed but in the grand scheme it's not a big deal. We have two boys so, for instance, he does all swim practices so we don't have to wait in line for the family changing rooms.

I'm happy with our setup, neither of us has to work crazy hours and we both get to be involved parents.

who found the swim lessons options and who chose and booked the one you're in? just curious.

Curious too. I don’t even care if household chores are split 50/50 or not. The things that grind me down are the finding all the doctors; setting up all the appointments at appropriate times that work for everyone; keeping up with when the kids need new shoes, lunchboxes, backpacks, haircuts, underwear, etc; taking the pulse on everyone’s emotions before/during/after any changes and adjusting things to appropriately support the kids; making sure the house is stocked in food, cleaning supplies, paper products; planning and buying everything for all birthday parties plus making the guest list and sending invites; meal planning around 4 people’s preferences and needs; ensuring the kids are doing the appropriate amount of music or sports and researching all those and signups and uniform and equipment purchases and maintenance; fostering emotional intimacy with and support for my kids and learning about their friends and who they are becoming and checking in regularly about any issues; keeping informed on their academics and reading the 1,000s of emails from schools lest we miss some opportunities that I also must sign them up for and pay for; getting the house ready for any and all entertaining or guests; teaching my kids how to develop good habits in eating, sleep, studying, friendships; and I could think of a zillion more things.

I would happily do all laundry, cleaning, and cooking if the rest were shared 50/50. But men in general completely check out of thinking about anyone but themselves when they look at the big picture. My DH can’t be bothered to give AF about my emotional wellbeing or goals and dreams, why would he do that for his kids?

I'm the PP and my husband and I both booked swim. He books things like sports and handles the pool and camp, I booked aftercare, the pediatrician and dentist and we both take them to these activities. I tend to handle the pets. We have a shared Google calendar.

I cook more than he does but I work from home so I can do a lot of crockpot type meals. I do more dishes, he does more laundry. The only thing we but heads on a bit is the litter boxes

My spouse definitely cares about my goals and dreams, he drove me to the LSAT and bar exam, quizzed me on the bar at the hotel. I read multiple drafts of his PhD thesis.

It is absolutely possible for a man to split things evenly.

My guess is your DH doesn’t earn a lot of money which is why he’s up for all of this.