Former Lt. Gov. Justin Fairfax - murder/suicide?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some real ogres on this thread.

Mrs. Fairfax is the victim. She likely was trying to do what was best for the kids. So sad.

Remember, at one time she loved him--maybe, she still did. Just proves that if a smart, educated woman cannot figure this out, how can those with fewer advantages?

Yes we know she was the victim. That is totally clear. And maybe this was the inevitable outcome no matter what she did. But I think it is really important for women to know that bad situations can get worse and nothing is worth staying with a spiraling or unstable man. Do what you can to get out even if it means living in a small apartment, your kids switching schools, whatever. Call a lawyer with DV experience and figure it out.

Stop. There is nothing to “figure out” here. She had a lawyer, she had a court proceeding, and the judge was more focused on giving her husband hype talks as if that man had anything good left to salvage, than protecting her.

There is a reason why women in this situation kidnap their kids and go into hiding - it’s because that is your only option. And for a woman who grew up dirt poor, I’m sure she wanted to do all she could to spare her children from that same fate.

She told friends her lawyer advised her she’d risk being found to have abandoned the home if she moved out.

Then she got bad legal advice. There is no legal requirement that you extend the misery of living with someone spiraling for years while a divorce moves forward. Or you prioritize your stability over the prospect that you could lose some equity.

If your spouse started abusing you, you would probably do the same thing. That’s the crux here. You’re so worried about you, you are projecting blame on to her. Please stop. And see a shrink, because you have problems.

What? No. I was in a mildly abusive situation and my friend was in a worse one. Neither of us prioritized some small gain in financial outcomes over getting away from our ex. It is not blaming Celina to say she was poorly advised. It is helping other women.

Some small gain? Seriously? And any situation that ends in murder is not “mildly abusive.” I’m sorry your spouse called you names.

Come back when he filed false reports against you, repeatedly threatened suicide as emotional blackmail, abandoned any financial contribution to his family and started wrecking up debt that could accrue to you, bought a gun with your kids activity money, and spent his days at the bottom of a bottle. And probably threatened to use his law license to make your life (ie your children’s lives) hell.

Then you can instruct is how you got out of that, and I will tell you that maybe you’re not so innocent because you picked an abuser in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some real ogres on this thread.

Mrs. Fairfax is the victim. She likely was trying to do what was best for the kids. So sad.

Remember, at one time she loved him--maybe, she still did. Just proves that if a smart, educated woman cannot figure this out, how can those with fewer advantages?

Yes we know she was the victim. That is totally clear. And maybe this was the inevitable outcome no matter what she did. But I think it is really important for women to know that bad situations can get worse and nothing is worth staying with a spiraling or unstable man. Do what you can to get out even if it means living in a small apartment, your kids switching schools, whatever. Call a lawyer with DV experience and figure it out.

Stop. There is nothing to “figure out” here. She had a lawyer, she had a court proceeding, and the judge was more focused on giving her husband hype talks as if that man had anything good left to salvage, than protecting her.

There is a reason why women in this situation kidnap their kids and go into hiding - it’s because that is your only option. And for a woman who grew up dirt poor, I’m sure she wanted to do all she could to spare her children from that same fate.

She told friends her lawyer advised her she’d risk being found to have abandoned the home if she moved out.

Then she got bad legal advice. There is no legal requirement that you extend the misery of living with someone spiraling for years while a divorce moves forward. Or you prioritize your stability over the prospect that you could lose some equity.

If your spouse started abusing you, you would probably do the same thing. That’s the crux here. You’re so worried about you, you are projecting blame on to her. Please stop. And see a shrink, because you have problems.

What? No. I was in a mildly abusive situation and my friend was in a worse one. Neither of us prioritized some small gain in financial outcomes over getting away from our ex. It is not blaming Celina to say she was poorly advised. It is helping other women.

Some small gain? Seriously? And any situation that ends in murder is not “mildly abusive.” I’m sorry your spouse called you names.

Come back when he filed false reports against you, repeatedly threatened suicide as emotional blackmail, abandoned any financial contribution to his family and started wrecking up debt that could accrue to you, bought a gun with your kids activity money, and spent his days at the bottom of a bottle. And probably threatened to use his law license to make your life (ie your children’s lives) hell.

Then you can instruct is how you got out of that, and I will tell you that maybe you’re not so innocent because you picked an abuser in the first place.

So your idea is that we should advise women they need to stay in the same house as a spiraling, abuse man with a gun because they may give him a ground to claim fault in a divorce?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some real ogres on this thread.

Mrs. Fairfax is the victim. She likely was trying to do what was best for the kids. So sad.

Remember, at one time she loved him--maybe, she still did. Just proves that if a smart, educated woman cannot figure this out, how can those with fewer advantages?

Yes we know she was the victim. That is totally clear. And maybe this was the inevitable outcome no matter what she did. But I think it is really important for women to know that bad situations can get worse and nothing is worth staying with a spiraling or unstable man. Do what you can to get out even if it means living in a small apartment, your kids switching schools, whatever. Call a lawyer with DV experience and figure it out.

Stop. There is nothing to “figure out” here. She had a lawyer, she had a court proceeding, and the judge was more focused on giving her husband hype talks as if that man had anything good left to salvage, than protecting her.

There is a reason why women in this situation kidnap their kids and go into hiding - it’s because that is your only option. And for a woman who grew up dirt poor, I’m sure she wanted to do all she could to spare her children from that same fate.

She told friends her lawyer advised her she’d risk being found to have abandoned the home if she moved out.

Then she got bad legal advice. There is no legal requirement that you extend the misery of living with someone spiraling for years while a divorce moves forward. Or you prioritize your stability over the prospect that you could lose some equity.

If your spouse started abusing you, you would probably do the same thing. That’s the crux here. You’re so worried about you, you are projecting blame on to her. Please stop. And see a shrink, because you have problems.

What? No. I was in a mildly abusive situation and my friend was in a worse one. Neither of us prioritized some small gain in financial outcomes over getting away from our ex. It is not blaming Celina to say she was poorly advised. It is helping other women.

Way to be vague with the details. I’m sure it was exactly the same dynamics as this case with children, a prominent, politically connected abuser, etc.

“Small gain in financial outcomes”

I knew enough to know that you don’t lose the right to property just because you move out. It’s just false to say that.

See, this is the difference between a lawyer who is versed in Virginia family law and someone is not. If you don’t want this to be the law, call your representatives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some real ogres on this thread.

Mrs. Fairfax is the victim. She likely was trying to do what was best for the kids. So sad.

Remember, at one time she loved him--maybe, she still did. Just proves that if a smart, educated woman cannot figure this out, how can those with fewer advantages?

Yes we know she was the victim. That is totally clear. And maybe this was the inevitable outcome no matter what she did. But I think it is really important for women to know that bad situations can get worse and nothing is worth staying with a spiraling or unstable man. Do what you can to get out even if it means living in a small apartment, your kids switching schools, whatever. Call a lawyer with DV experience and figure it out.

Stop. There is nothing to “figure out” here. She had a lawyer, she had a court proceeding, and the judge was more focused on giving her husband hype talks as if that man had anything good left to salvage, than protecting her.

There is a reason why women in this situation kidnap their kids and go into hiding - it’s because that is your only option. And for a woman who grew up dirt poor, I’m sure she wanted to do all she could to spare her children from that same fate.

She told friends her lawyer advised her she’d risk being found to have abandoned the home if she moved out.

Then she got bad legal advice. There is no legal requirement that you extend the misery of living with someone spiraling for years while a divorce moves forward. Or you prioritize your stability over the prospect that you could lose some equity.

If your spouse started abusing you, you would probably do the same thing. That’s the crux here. You’re so worried about you, you are projecting blame on to her. Please stop. And see a shrink, because you have problems.

What? No. I was in a mildly abusive situation and my friend was in a worse one. Neither of us prioritized some small gain in financial outcomes over getting away from our ex. It is not blaming Celina to say she was poorly advised. It is helping other women.

Some small gain? Seriously? And any situation that ends in murder is not “mildly abusive.” I’m sorry your spouse called you names.

Come back when he filed false reports against you, repeatedly threatened suicide as emotional blackmail, abandoned any financial contribution to his family and started wrecking up debt that could accrue to you, bought a gun with your kids activity money, and spent his days at the bottom of a bottle. And probably threatened to use his law license to make your life (ie your children’s lives) hell.

Then you can instruct is how you got out of that, and I will tell you that maybe you’re not so innocent because you picked an abuser in the first place.

So your idea is that we should advise women they need to stay in the same house as a spiraling, abuse man with a gun because they may give him a ground to claim fault in a divorce?

For two more weeks when she’s already endured it for years? I’m sure you were just certain that this would be the outcome in a two-week window.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some real ogres on this thread.

Mrs. Fairfax is the victim. She likely was trying to do what was best for the kids. So sad.

Remember, at one time she loved him--maybe, she still did. Just proves that if a smart, educated woman cannot figure this out, how can those with fewer advantages?

Yes we know she was the victim. That is totally clear. And maybe this was the inevitable outcome no matter what she did. But I think it is really important for women to know that bad situations can get worse and nothing is worth staying with a spiraling or unstable man. Do what you can to get out even if it means living in a small apartment, your kids switching schools, whatever. Call a lawyer with DV experience and figure it out.

Stop. There is nothing to “figure out” here. She had a lawyer, she had a court proceeding, and the judge was more focused on giving her husband hype talks as if that man had anything good left to salvage, than protecting her.

There is a reason why women in this situation kidnap their kids and go into hiding - it’s because that is your only option. And for a woman who grew up dirt poor, I’m sure she wanted to do all she could to spare her children from that same fate.

She told friends her lawyer advised her she’d risk being found to have abandoned the home if she moved out.

Then she got bad legal advice. There is no legal requirement that you extend the misery of living with someone spiraling for years while a divorce moves forward. Or you prioritize your stability over the prospect that you could lose some equity.

If your spouse started abusing you, you would probably do the same thing. That’s the crux here. You’re so worried about you, you are projecting blame on to her. Please stop. And see a shrink, because you have problems.

What? No. I was in a mildly abusive situation and my friend was in a worse one. Neither of us prioritized some small gain in financial outcomes over getting away from our ex. It is not blaming Celina to say she was poorly advised. It is helping other women.

Some small gain? Seriously? And any situation that ends in murder is not “mildly abusive.” I’m sorry your spouse called you names.

Come back when he filed false reports against you, repeatedly threatened suicide as emotional blackmail, abandoned any financial contribution to his family and started wrecking up debt that could accrue to you, bought a gun with your kids activity money, and spent his days at the bottom of a bottle. And probably threatened to use his law license to make your life (ie your children’s lives) hell.

Then you can instruct is how you got out of that, and I will tell you that maybe you’re not so innocent because you picked an abuser in the first place.

So your idea is that we should advise women they need to stay in the same house as a spiraling, abuse man with a gun because they may give him a ground to claim fault in a divorce?

My idea is to lock up spiraling abusive men and take away their guns. Instead we hand them 50/50 custody and palimony and let them compile their little arsenals until they either kill their women or pick on the wrong white guy.

The only “good” solution for abusers is to execute them. There, I said it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some real ogres on this thread.

Mrs. Fairfax is the victim. She likely was trying to do what was best for the kids. So sad.

Remember, at one time she loved him--maybe, she still did. Just proves that if a smart, educated woman cannot figure this out, how can those with fewer advantages?

Yes we know she was the victim. That is totally clear. And maybe this was the inevitable outcome no matter what she did. But I think it is really important for women to know that bad situations can get worse and nothing is worth staying with a spiraling or unstable man. Do what you can to get out even if it means living in a small apartment, your kids switching schools, whatever. Call a lawyer with DV experience and figure it out.

Stop. There is nothing to “figure out” here. She had a lawyer, she had a court proceeding, and the judge was more focused on giving her husband hype talks as if that man had anything good left to salvage, than protecting her.

There is a reason why women in this situation kidnap their kids and go into hiding - it’s because that is your only option. And for a woman who grew up dirt poor, I’m sure she wanted to do all she could to spare her children from that same fate.

The fate of “growing up dirt poor”??!! I’d take that 100 x over staying with someone like Fairfax, especially after his previous alleged crimes were revealed.

What a shame he was never prosecuted!! Maybe his wife would have left him earlier. From what I’ve read, she only became disenchanted when he was no longer able to pull in a high income

[Anonymous]

This is a horrific tragedy. I’m so sorry for the children and for Cerina’s extended family.

[Anonymous]

We really shouldn’t be judging how Cerina handled any of this. This woman was managing a household, her own private dental practice, and a ticking time bomb living in her house. Expecting her to make absolutely perfect clearheaded decisions isn’t right. It sounds like she tried her best and that’s all anyone really can do.

[Anonymous]

Can we also remember the Gardners? Disgusting example of political power to discredit the girls and move the community against the girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We really shouldn’t be judging how Cerina handled any of this. This woman was managing a household, her own private dental practice, and a ticking time bomb living in her house. Expecting her to make absolutely perfect clearheaded decisions isn’t right. It sounds like she tried her best and that’s all anyone really can do.

But also this was the likely outcome no matter where she lived. I'm the DV survivor that doesn't truly believe my ex couldn't still kill me today should his life suddenly go to sh!t. Abusers believe they own you and that you are the source of all their issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some real ogres on this thread.

Mrs. Fairfax is the victim. She likely was trying to do what was best for the kids. So sad.

Remember, at one time she loved him--maybe, she still did. Just proves that if a smart, educated woman cannot figure this out, how can those with fewer advantages?

Yes we know she was the victim. That is totally clear. And maybe this was the inevitable outcome no matter what she did. But I think it is really important for women to know that bad situations can get worse and nothing is worth staying with a spiraling or unstable man. Do what you can to get out even if it means living in a small apartment, your kids switching schools, whatever. Call a lawyer with DV experience and figure it out.

Stop. There is nothing to “figure out” here. She had a lawyer, she had a court proceeding, and the judge was more focused on giving her husband hype talks as if that man had anything good left to salvage, than protecting her.

There is a reason why women in this situation kidnap their kids and go into hiding - it’s because that is your only option. And for a woman who grew up dirt poor, I’m sure she wanted to do all she could to spare her children from that same fate.

She told friends her lawyer advised her she’d risk being found to have abandoned the home if she moved out.

Her lawyer was correct. It was absolutely a risk. And she might not even have a home to come back to considering he had zero income and hundreds of thousands in debt.

A risk of what exactly? Please back that up with facts and reported cases. There is zero way a competent family law attorney tells a woman in an abusive/unstable household that she cannot leave the home. If someone told her that they should be brought up on bar charges. The fact is that leaving the marital home in Virginia does nothing at all wrt to the ownership interest, but it may be grounds for fault in a divorce. But if you are facing a truly dysfunctional situation (even if not abusive) then you need to prioritize.

They don't say "you're not allowed to leave the home and you shouldn't leave the home." The lawyer says, "You have to recognize that Virginia considers desertion to be a ground for at-fault divorce and is one of the only states in the country to do this. While I will argue vigorously that you had a justified departure, we don't know what the judge will find, so there is real risk there. If you're found at-fault, that will mean you could end up with fewer marital assets under an 'equitable distribution.' It can also play a role in custody determinations. Only you know what is best, but I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't fully advise you of the risks."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some real ogres on this thread.

Mrs. Fairfax is the victim. She likely was trying to do what was best for the kids. So sad.

Remember, at one time she loved him--maybe, she still did. Just proves that if a smart, educated woman cannot figure this out, how can those with fewer advantages?

Yes we know she was the victim. That is totally clear. And maybe this was the inevitable outcome no matter what she did. But I think it is really important for women to know that bad situations can get worse and nothing is worth staying with a spiraling or unstable man. Do what you can to get out even if it means living in a small apartment, your kids switching schools, whatever. Call a lawyer with DV experience and figure it out.

Stop. There is nothing to “figure out” here. She had a lawyer, she had a court proceeding, and the judge was more focused on giving her husband hype talks as if that man had anything good left to salvage, than protecting her.

There is a reason why women in this situation kidnap their kids and go into hiding - it’s because that is your only option. And for a woman who grew up dirt poor, I’m sure she wanted to do all she could to spare her children from that same fate.

She told friends her lawyer advised her she’d risk being found to have abandoned the home if she moved out.

Then she got bad legal advice. There is no legal requirement that you extend the misery of living with someone spiraling for years while a divorce moves forward. Or you prioritize your stability over the prospect that you could lose some equity.

If your spouse started abusing you, you would probably do the same thing. That’s the crux here. You’re so worried about you, you are projecting blame on to her. Please stop. And see a shrink, because you have problems.

What? No. I was in a mildly abusive situation and my friend was in a worse one. Neither of us prioritized some small gain in financial outcomes over getting away from our ex. It is not blaming Celina to say she was poorly advised. It is helping other women.

Some small gain? Seriously? And any situation that ends in murder is not “mildly abusive.” I’m sorry your spouse called you names.

Come back when he filed false reports against you, repeatedly threatened suicide as emotional blackmail, abandoned any financial contribution to his family and started wrecking up debt that could accrue to you, bought a gun with your kids activity money, and spent his days at the bottom of a bottle. And probably threatened to use his law license to make your life (ie your children’s lives) hell.

Then you can instruct is how you got out of that, and I will tell you that maybe you’re not so innocent because you picked an abuser in the first place.

So your idea is that we should advise women they need to stay in the same house as a spiraling, abuse man with a gun because they may give him a ground to claim fault in a divorce?

Lawyers don't generally tell their clients whether to stay or leave. They advise their clients of the risks of various choices and leave it to the client to decide what risk/benefit they're comfortable with. I really hope this is a wake-up call to the legislature about "desertion" being a ground for at-fault divorce in Virginia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is reported they were in the middle of a messy divorce. So awful.

Ugh. Another layer of awful.

In Virginia, you must be separated for a year in order to get divorced and you can live in the same house while being separated (if you move you it can be seen by the court as abandoning your claim to the house, happened to my cousin). Reports are that the couple had started this process so I am not surprised they were both still living in the house.

Fairfax made an accusation against his wife earlier this year that she had physically assaulted him. Apparently she had cameras in the house and after reviewing the footage the police determined the assault claim wasn't valid and there was a scheduled upcoming court date re this incident which could be what triggered the current awful events.

There were 2 teen sons in the house. This is absolutely awful.

I hope this is a wake up call to change the law re: leaving the home. It forces women into staying in a potentially very dangerous situation.

That and the 1 year separation. What is the purpose??
Tragic.

Maryland recently shortened their one year separation requirement to six months if there are no children in the marriage. I think the rationale is that the state has an interest in wanting couples to be sure they need to get a divorce before they do? Not supporting this.

The part they need to change is about "home abandonment." Fine, make people wait, but don't penalize their assets for leaving to do so.

Can someone point me to the Virginia law(s) that make it financially risky to move out of the house before the divorce is finalized? What an insane game of gotcha for a couple in a contentious divorce. I hate everything about this story.

I don’t know the law but a friend of mine moved out of the marital home while her ex was away on a business trip and he claimed she had abandoned the home (as in abandoned her financial claim to the home) and the judge agreed, so the ex got the house and didn’t have to buy her out. This was 10 years ago in NOVA.

That is an outrageous law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some real ogres on this thread.

Mrs. Fairfax is the victim. She likely was trying to do what was best for the kids. So sad.

Remember, at one time she loved him--maybe, she still did. Just proves that if a smart, educated woman cannot figure this out, how can those with fewer advantages?

Yes we know she was the victim. That is totally clear. And maybe this was the inevitable outcome no matter what she did. But I think it is really important for women to know that bad situations can get worse and nothing is worth staying with a spiraling or unstable man. Do what you can to get out even if it means living in a small apartment, your kids switching schools, whatever. Call a lawyer with DV experience and figure it out.

Stop. There is nothing to “figure out” here. She had a lawyer, she had a court proceeding, and the judge was more focused on giving her husband hype talks as if that man had anything good left to salvage, than protecting her.

There is a reason why women in this situation kidnap their kids and go into hiding - it’s because that is your only option. And for a woman who grew up dirt poor, I’m sure she wanted to do all she could to spare her children from that same fate.

She told friends her lawyer advised her she’d risk being found to have abandoned the home if she moved out.

Monday morning QB but she should have. It’s not like he could pay for it. She should have made an arrangement with the mortgage company to assume it behind his back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are some real ogres on this thread.

Mrs. Fairfax is the victim. She likely was trying to do what was best for the kids. So sad.

Remember, at one time she loved him--maybe, she still did. Just proves that if a smart, educated woman cannot figure this out, how can those with fewer advantages?

Yes we know she was the victim. That is totally clear. And maybe this was the inevitable outcome no matter what she did. But I think it is really important for women to know that bad situations can get worse and nothing is worth staying with a spiraling or unstable man. Do what you can to get out even if it means living in a small apartment, your kids switching schools, whatever. Call a lawyer with DV experience and figure it out.

Stop. There is nothing to “figure out” here. She had a lawyer, she had a court proceeding, and the judge was more focused on giving her husband hype talks as if that man had anything good left to salvage, than protecting her.

There is a reason why women in this situation kidnap their kids and go into hiding - it’s because that is your only option. And for a woman who grew up dirt poor, I’m sure she wanted to do all she could to spare her children from that same fate.

She told friends her lawyer advised her she’d risk being found to have abandoned the home if she moved out.

Her lawyer was correct. It was absolutely a risk. And she might not even have a home to come back to considering he had zero income and hundreds of thousands in debt.

A risk of what exactly? Please back that up with facts and reported cases. There is zero way a competent family law attorney tells a woman in an abusive/unstable household that she cannot leave the home. If someone told her that they should be brought up on bar charges. The fact is that leaving the marital home in Virginia does nothing at all wrt to the ownership interest, but it may be grounds for fault in a divorce. But if you are facing a truly dysfunctional situation (even if not abusive) then you need to prioritize.

They don't say "you're not allowed to leave the home and you shouldn't leave the home." The lawyer says, "You have to recognize that Virginia considers desertion to be a ground for at-fault divorce and is one of the only states in the country to do this. While I will argue vigorously that you had a justified departure, we don't know what the judge will find, so there is real risk there. If you're found at-fault, that will mean you could end up with fewer marital assets under an 'equitable distribution.' It can also play a role in custody determinations. Only you know what is best, but I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't fully advise you of the risks."

And then they need to fully advise her of the risks of staying as well. Based on the description of how contentious things got (she locked him out of the cupboards and WiFi) there was nothing to be gained by staying. Pressuring a wife of a mentally ill man with a gun to stay in the household would be malpractice full stop. If that is what happened I would like to see it addressed by the Virginia Bar.