Accommodation Nation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only fair thing to do is to give everyone as much time as they need, as long as they sit the test in one session (to prevent cheating). That way, the quicker kids can walk out earlier when they’re done and the slower kids can stay until they feel like they’re finished. Then the slower kids aren’t at a disadvantage but it’s fair for everyone.

Not with respect to the LSAT.

Why? Previous 170 LSAT extra time PP thinks they likely would have been admitted to a T14 even with what would have been their lower score from a timed test. Shouldn’t we trust their assessment? It’s a big law analysis, after all.

Y'all are just cruel. That person has clearly been successful in law school and beyond.

For the millionth time. They should stand on their own two feet. Processing speed is a type of intelligence that is legitimate to measure and rank. It is very important for many jobs, including many types of legal jobs.

But I thought nobody doubted that people with “real disabilities” deserve accommodations?

If they’re doing well at their job, who cares?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in a tough STEM major. I am wondering if 20-30 percent of the kids have accommodations, then it’s kind of like my son starting a 5K 1/4 mile behind. That’s not fair.

Don’t worry, if the kids actually need accommodation they are starting a mile behind him.

Having a serious disability isn’t nearly the cheat code people seem to think it is.

I think that we all agree that a serious disability merits consideration, but the article and concern is about trivial or imaginary or intentionally fabricated disabilities regarding anxiety that have become a form of institutionally permissible form of cheating.

The majority of the comments here don't suggest people think accommodations are appropriate for those with "real" disabilities. Most commenters seem to think if you need accommodations, you're a loser and can't possibly be a good employee deserving of a job.

This is about school, not work. School is (or should be) about all vectors of intelligence, including processing speed. Some jobs need fast processing speed and some don’t. It is the employers job to sort that out.

When employers see someone has a college degree earned in 4 yrs, it’s assumed that person has a normal level processing speed and aptitude- especially if said employee has graduated from a top 10 school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in a tough STEM major. I am wondering if 20-30 percent of the kids have accommodations, then it’s kind of like my son starting a 5K 1/4 mile behind. That’s not fair.

Don’t worry, if the kids actually need accommodation they are starting a mile behind him.

Having a serious disability isn’t nearly the cheat code people seem to think it is.

I think that we all agree that a serious disability merits consideration, but the article and concern is about trivial or imaginary or intentionally fabricated disabilities regarding anxiety that have become a form of institutionally permissible form of cheating.

The majority of the comments here don't suggest people think accommodations are appropriate for those with "real" disabilities. Most commenters seem to think if you need accommodations, you're a loser and can't possibly be a good employee deserving of a job.

This is about school, not work. School is (or should be) about all vectors of intelligence, including processing speed. Some jobs need fast processing speed and some don’t. It is the employers job to sort that out.

When employers see someone has a college degree earned in 4 yrs, it’s assumed that person has a normal level processing speed and aptitude- especially if said employee has graduated from a top 10 school.

Guess that’s a false assumption! Also, someone can have normal processing speed and extraordinary aptitude and be entitled to extended time, obviously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My freshman Ivy child has two roommates and both have extra time. They each are given 2-3 days to take exams that the rest of the kids are given 2-3 hours to complete. Both attended private schools. Both are very bright and very wealthy. Both have the extra time for "anxiety."

I'd be pissed if I was a professor or a person who had a kid with dyslexia or significant ADHD or a learning difference. It's apparently a huge difficulty to get these exams proctored, especially if the student also needs a quiet study pod because there are not enough pods for the onslaught of students who now require them.

I have no idea how this generation of kids will cope in jobs with deadlines and noise and without parents to run interference. But I guess the workforce will adapt. Maybe everyone will get a week and a soundproof pod to write an email.

Easy. You find a job that doesn’t have deadlines. There are lots of jobs like that out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The accommodation that pisses me off is they get to register for classes earlier than other students.

A parent I know whose child is at a big university told me that thank goodness he has an anxiety accommodation; otherwise he would have gotten shut out of the classes he really wanted. That’s really unfair and unnecessary.

This is the one that confounds me the most. Anxiety is *not supposed to be accommodated.* that is literally the main therepeutic intervention for anxiety. You learn to cope with it an accept it, not avoid it through accomodations. Acceptable accomodations for anxiety might be some scheduling flexibility for Dr appts; allowing some assignments to be scaffolded (ie - allowed to do a shorter presentation then work up to a full one - but not excused altogether from public speaking). If a student has to take a lower course load that should be allowed too. But otherwise the main service colleges should provide is excellent therapeutic support in the college mental health clinic that delivers CBT/ACT.

Is this a joke? Or do you want your kid’s tuition to increase by a million dollars? It is much less expensive to give a kid an early enrollment option than to give “excellent therapeutic support.”

[Anonymous]

Ultimately not every job requires excellence in every area and the job market will eventually shake that out. My kid has a hearing disability. She is not going to seek a job as a piano tuner. If she did she would be fired.

Kids will eventually self-select careers that work for them, or the market will force them into careers that work for them. Kids with disabilities may not be well suited for some kinds of jobs. Kids with diabetes might not seek jobs where they have to be away from insulin for long periods of time (deep sea diving). I think everyone acknowledges that not every career works for every person with disabilities. That doesn’t mean that they can’t be educated and get a career that does work for their disabilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The accommodation that pisses me off is they get to register for classes earlier than other students.

A parent I know whose child is at a big university told me that thank goodness he has an anxiety accommodation; otherwise he would have gotten shut out of the classes he really wanted. That’s really unfair and unnecessary.

This is the one that confounds me the most. Anxiety is *not supposed to be accommodated.* that is literally the main therepeutic intervention for anxiety. You learn to cope with it an accept it, not avoid it through accomodations. Acceptable accomodations for anxiety might be some scheduling flexibility for Dr appts; allowing some assignments to be scaffolded (ie - allowed to do a shorter presentation then work up to a full one - but not excused altogether from public speaking). If a student has to take a lower course load that should be allowed too. But otherwise the main service colleges should provide is excellent therapeutic support in the college mental health clinic that delivers CBT/ACT.

Is this a joke? Or do you want your kid’s tuition to increase by a million dollars? It is much less expensive to give a kid an early enrollment option than to give “excellent therapeutic support.”

Do you have a college student? I have 2 and they're getting the best mental healthcare of their lives while in college. We struggled for YEARS to find ANYONE who would take insurance for counseling for anxiety and ADHD in the DMV but now in college they both have excellent therapists through the college health center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in a tough STEM major. I am wondering if 20-30 percent of the kids have accommodations, then it’s kind of like my son starting a 5K 1/4 mile behind. That’s not fair.

Don’t worry, if the kids actually need accommodation they are starting a mile behind him.

Having a serious disability isn’t nearly the cheat code people seem to think it is.

I think that we all agree that a serious disability merits consideration, but the article and concern is about trivial or imaginary or intentionally fabricated disabilities regarding anxiety that have become a form of institutionally permissible form of cheating.

The majority of the comments here don't suggest people think accommodations are appropriate for those with "real" disabilities. Most commenters seem to think if you need accommodations, you're a loser and can't possibly be a good employee deserving of a job.

This is about school, not work. School is (or should be) about all vectors of intelligence, including processing speed. Some jobs need fast processing speed and some don’t. It is the employers job to sort that out.

Then the school should not be imposing artificial time limits on any student, since that is not their job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The accommodation that pisses me off is they get to register for classes earlier than other students.

A parent I know whose child is at a big university told me that thank goodness he has an anxiety accommodation; otherwise he would have gotten shut out of the classes he really wanted. That’s really unfair and unnecessary.

This is the one that confounds me the most. Anxiety is *not supposed to be accommodated.* that is literally the main therepeutic intervention for anxiety. You learn to cope with it an accept it, not avoid it through accomodations. Acceptable accomodations for anxiety might be some scheduling flexibility for Dr appts; allowing some assignments to be scaffolded (ie - allowed to do a shorter presentation then work up to a full one - but not excused altogether from public speaking). If a student has to take a lower course load that should be allowed too. But otherwise the main service colleges should provide is excellent therapeutic support in the college mental health clinic that delivers CBT/ACT.

Is this a joke? Or do you want your kid’s tuition to increase by a million dollars? It is much less expensive to give a kid an early enrollment option than to give “excellent therapeutic support.”

Do you have a college student? I have 2 and they're getting the best mental healthcare of their lives while in college. We struggled for YEARS to find ANYONE who would take insurance for counseling for anxiety and ADHD in the DMV but now in college they both have excellent therapists through the college health center.

Also PP doesn't understand that the suggestion of CBT/ACT programs is actually a very cost effective way to teach really valuable coping skills that increase distress tolerance and help people in all aspects of life -- professionally, socially, romantically, and with general mental health. They can also be taught via group seminars or even online programs. You don't need to go through intensive talk therapy to learn how to use CBT methods to work through anxiety or other negative feelings. In countries with centralized healthcare programs, they use programs like online CBT programs to provide mental healthcare to people who have milder forms of mood disorders to prevent people getting worse and save money on individual talk therapy. It's an evidence-based approach to depression and anxiety, and proven to be more effective than medication and traditional talk therapy.

I would argue that colleges (and high schools!) should be investing more money in programs offering these kinds of practical, skills-based, mental health services to ALL kids, not just those who are struggling so much they are showing up to the mental health counseling offices. And some schools do, actually.

The world is a tough place. You will deal with stress, anxiety, grief, disappointment, frustration, and other negative feelings in the normal course of being a person in the world, having a job, being in relationships, dealing with normal conflict with neighbors and family, parenting, being a citizen in this nutty country with a lot of political division and consuming media from an increasingly complex and confusing media environment. We are failing kids if we aren't providing them with skills for staying sane in all that.

[Anonymous]

I half-imagine in a work context (something I think you legally can't do, right?) is an interviewer asking a candidate, "so did you have testing or schoolwork related accommodations in college? If you did how do or don't they relate to the work you intend to do here?"

While I think a 45 minute knowledge only timed test isn't a normal workday, but the number of times I've had to accurately summarize something plainly in order to get to a meeting happening almost immediately is very high. Workdays in some places are steady grind stress-free widget making, but none where I've worked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ultimately not every job requires excellence in every area and the job market will eventually shake that out. My kid has a hearing disability. She is not going to seek a job as a piano tuner. If she did she would be fired.

Kids will eventually self-select careers that work for them, or the market will force them into careers that work for them. Kids with disabilities may not be well suited for some kinds of jobs. Kids with diabetes might not seek jobs where they have to be away from insulin for long periods of time (deep sea diving). I think everyone acknowledges that not every career works for every person with disabilities. That doesn’t mean that they can’t be educated and get a career that does work for their disabilities.

+1 Well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I half-imagine in a work context (something I think you legally can't do, right?) is an interviewer asking a candidate, "so did you have testing or schoolwork related accommodations in college? If you did how do or don't they relate to the work you intend to do here?"

While I think a 45 minute knowledge only timed test isn't a normal workday, but the number of times I've had to accurately summarize something plainly in order to get to a meeting happening almost immediately is very high. Workdays in some places are steady grind stress-free widget making, but none where I've worked.

Yes, that would be illegal. The most you can ask is whether an employee can perform the essential duties of the job with or without a reasonable accommodation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My freshman Ivy child has two roommates and both have extra time. They each are given 2-3 days to take exams that the rest of the kids are given 2-3 hours to complete. Both attended private schools. Both are very bright and very wealthy. Both have the extra time for "anxiety."

I'd be pissed if I was a professor or a person who had a kid with dyslexia or significant ADHD or a learning difference. It's apparently a huge difficulty to get these exams proctored, especially if the student also needs a quiet study pod because there are not enough pods for the onslaught of students who now require them.

I have no idea how this generation of kids will cope in jobs with deadlines and noise and without parents to run interference. But I guess the workforce will adapt. Maybe everyone will get a week and a soundproof pod to write an email.

Easy. You find a job that doesn’t have deadlines. There are lots of jobs like that out there.

When was the last time you sat for a timed test at your job? The lack of understanding here is unreal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The accommodation that pisses me off is they get to register for classes earlier than other students.

A parent I know whose child is at a big university told me that thank goodness he has an anxiety accommodation; otherwise he would have gotten shut out of the classes he really wanted. That’s really unfair and unnecessary.

This is the one that confounds me the most. Anxiety is *not supposed to be accommodated.* that is literally the main therepeutic intervention for anxiety. You learn to cope with it an accept it, not avoid it through accomodations. Acceptable accomodations for anxiety might be some scheduling flexibility for Dr appts; allowing some assignments to be scaffolded (ie - allowed to do a shorter presentation then work up to a full one - but not excused altogether from public speaking). If a student has to take a lower course load that should be allowed too. But otherwise the main service colleges should provide is excellent therapeutic support in the college mental health clinic that delivers CBT/ACT.

Is this a joke?[b] Or do you want your kid’s tuition to increase by a million dollars? It is much less expensive to give a kid an early enrollment option than to give “excellent therapeutic support.”

Apparently you don’t have SN kids or haven’t been on a campus in decades. This is what schools do now. Every campus has a disability services office. It provides accommodations for students and acts as an advocate if the student gets abused by a professor (happened to my ASD/ADHD/anxiety kid at GMU.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in a tough STEM major. I am wondering if 20-30 percent of the kids have accommodations, then it’s kind of like my son starting a 5K 1/4 mile behind. That’s not fair.

Don’t worry, if the kids actually need accommodation they are starting a mile behind him.

Having a serious disability isn’t nearly the cheat code people seem to think it is.

20-30 percent don’t have disabilities or if they do my son also has executive functioning issurs