JK Rowling's gender policing finally caught up to her

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know intersex people aren’t actually rare right? It’s the same percentage as redheads. You definitely know some intersex people even if you haven’t examined their genitals.

And even if you do examine their genital you might still not know their sex. Intersex people can be born with ambiguous genitalia that looks neither male nor female.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know intersex people aren’t actually rare right? It’s the same percentage as redheads. You definitely know some intersex people even if you haven’t examined their genitals.

This is fake news.

1.7% of the population has intersex traits. Apologies— are errors who should not be allowed to use male or female restrooms in their offices in schools— so what diapers, I guess?

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/many-transgender-intersex-people-live-us-rcna96711

1-2% of the population has red hair.

https://medicover-genetics.com/red-hair-its-in-your-genes/#:~:text=Everyone%20is%20aware%20of%20red,particularly%20in%20Scotland%20and%20Ireland.

Actual truth.

False. That figure is based on research which included a swath of health issues which are not DSDs such as PCOS.

Not according to the actual published article.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12552585/
https://cdn.subsplash.com/documents/KTC68B/_source/9e08b9bc-95dd-4fa4-855a-745b2f406cf8/document.pdf

Show us where PCOS is included.

DP
I myself did not see PCOS mentioned. However, they included hypospadias in this article. Which has nothing to do with being intersex. The article itself states that the rate of true hermaphroditism is .0117 out of 1000 live births.

And a bunch of them end up at the Olympics. Such a puzzler.

Double puzzler: they usually end up in female sports!

It’s a real head scratcher, for sure.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason we have separate mens and women's competitions is for a good reason, as a reminder. It is inclusive, giving more people a chance to win. Combining sexes and making sports open means fewer opportunities (for women) to win.

That means that the question of who is a woman needs to be addressed rather than merely hand waved away. And there are a number of people who do not want to address the question and write down an answer.

I totally agree that it needs to be addressed. It does not mean people can just shit on an individual based on visual.

I also imagine setting the standards will be difficult and complex, and somewhat arbitrary.

It would seem appropriate to require people participating in women’s sports to be XX, and exclude any XY variant.

They already test for doping. Testing for XY chromosomes is no different.

The irony if you go down this path is that it would likely knock out a lot of female athletes who present according to Western feminine gender norms. And it may very well be that Khelif is XY but has higher testosterone level.

And if you're going to do this, then you need to test all previous Olympic medal winners to see if their wins should be vacated. Right?

This is the can of worms you want to open. You need to really think through all the ramifications.

Many/most sports governing bodies have already made rules about intersex athletes. It's not an unsolvable problem, like you are saying. It's not some scary can of worms, figuring out who is male or female. Past athletes may be disqualified going forward but medals are not taken away when eligibility rules change.

Well stated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason we have separate mens and women's competitions is for a good reason, as a reminder. It is inclusive, giving more people a chance to win. Combining sexes and making sports open means fewer opportunities (for women) to win.

That means that the question of who is a woman needs to be addressed rather than merely hand waved away. And there are a number of people who do not want to address the question and write down an answer.

I totally agree that it needs to be addressed. It does not mean people can just shit on an individual based on visual.

I also imagine setting the standards will be difficult and complex, and somewhat arbitrary.

It would seem appropriate to require people participating in women’s sports to be XX, and exclude any XY variant.

They already test for doping. Testing for XY chromosomes is no different.

The irony if you go down this path is that it would likely knock out a lot of female athletes who present according to Western feminine gender norms. And it may very well be that Khelif is XY but has higher testosterone level.

And if you're going to do this, then you need to test all previous Olympic medal winners to see if their wins should be vacated. Right?

This is the can of worms you want to open. You need to really think through all the ramifications.

I see no reason to test all previous athletes. The rule would pertain moving forward.

A can of worms has to be opened. We cannot let males compete against females. Something needs to be done.

Repeat after me: Imane Khelif is a woman.

Can you do it? 5 simple words. Just say it.

Unless and until the results are released, we don’t have evidence of that. You know who can authorize release of the results? Imane Khelif.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know intersex people aren’t actually rare right? It’s the same percentage as redheads. You definitely know some intersex people even if you haven’t examined their genitals.

This is fake news.

1.7% of the population has intersex traits. Apologies— are errors who should not be allowed to use male or female restrooms in their offices in schools— so what diapers, I guess?

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/many-transgender-intersex-people-live-us-rcna96711

1-2% of the population has red hair.

https://medicover-genetics.com/red-hair-its-in-your-genes/#:~:text=Everyone%20is%20aware%20of%20red,particularly%20in%20Scotland%20and%20Ireland.

Actual truth.

False. That figure is based on research which included a swath of health issues which are not DSDs such as PCOS.

Not according to the actual published article.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12552585/
https://cdn.subsplash.com/documents/KTC68B/_source/9e08b9bc-95dd-4fa4-855a-745b2f406cf8/document.pdf

Show us where PCOS is included.

DP
I myself did not see PCOS mentioned. However, they included hypospadias in this article. Which has nothing to do with being intersex. The article itself states that the rate of true hermaphroditism is .0117 out of 1000 live births.

Oh, did you not know that it does, especially in conjunction with crypto-orchidism? This is covered in the article.

How do you justify rejecting the weighted inclusion of severe hypospadias and/or comorbid dimorphic deviation, given what we know about the genetics of it?

If they’re including “normal” hypospadias in their numbers then I don’t trust their numbers at all. Don’t have time to look and see if they are - heading into a meeting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

Have you seen Imane Khelif’s testing results? No, you haven’t because the IBF has refused to release the test results. Why? Because it’s a corrupt, Putin-associated Russian mafia organization that is spreading false information about Khelif. Y’all need to educate yourselves before spreading more false information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason we have separate mens and women's competitions is for a good reason, as a reminder. It is inclusive, giving more people a chance to win. Combining sexes and making sports open means fewer opportunities (for women) to win.

That means that the question of who is a woman needs to be addressed rather than merely hand waved away. And there are a number of people who do not want to address the question and write down an answer.

I totally agree that it needs to be addressed. It does not mean people can just shit on an individual based on visual.

I also imagine setting the standards will be difficult and complex, and somewhat arbitrary.

It would seem appropriate to require people participating in women’s sports to be XX, and exclude any XY variant.

They already test for doping. Testing for XY chromosomes is no different.

The irony if you go down this path is that it would likely knock out a lot of female athletes who present according to Western feminine gender norms. And it may very well be that Khelif is XY but has higher testosterone level.

And if you're going to do this, then you need to test all previous Olympic medal winners to see if their wins should be vacated. Right?

This is the can of worms you want to open. You need to really think through all the ramifications.

Many/most sports governing bodies have already made rules about intersex athletes. It's not an unsolvable problem, like you are saying. It's not some scary can of worms, figuring out who is male or female. Past athletes may be disqualified going forward but medals are not taken away when eligibility rules change.

The IOC has a rule. You just don't like the rule. If they change the rule, other people will not like the rule. The current rule has been in place for a long time and no actual issues have arisen with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know intersex people aren’t actually rare right? It’s the same percentage as redheads. You definitely know some intersex people even if you haven’t examined their genitals.

This is fake news.

1.7% of the population has intersex traits. Apologies— are errors who should not be allowed to use male or female restrooms in their offices in schools— so what diapers, I guess?

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/many-transgender-intersex-people-live-us-rcna96711

1-2% of the population has red hair.

https://medicover-genetics.com/red-hair-its-in-your-genes/#:~:text=Everyone%20is%20aware%20of%20red,particularly%20in%20Scotland%20and%20Ireland.

Actual truth.

False. That figure is based on research which included a swath of health issues which are not DSDs such as PCOS.

Not according to the actual published article.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12552585/
https://cdn.subsplash.com/documents/KTC68B/_source/9e08b9bc-95dd-4fa4-855a-745b2f406cf8/document.pdf

Show us where PCOS is included.

DP
I myself did not see PCOS mentioned. However, they included hypospadias in this article. Which has nothing to do with being intersex. The article itself states that the rate of true hermaphroditism is .0117 out of 1000 live births.

Oh, did you not know that it does, especially in conjunction with crypto-orchidism? This is covered in the article.

How do you justify rejecting the weighted inclusion of severe hypospadias and/or comorbid dimorphic deviation, given what we know about the genetics of it?

If they’re including “normal” hypospadias in their numbers then I don’t trust their numbers at all. Don’t have time to look and see if they are - heading into a meeting.

I think you might want to look up what "weighted" means in data analysis. Maybe after the meeting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

You literally cannot prove anything you just wrote. Khelif is a biological female, per her own words and her country's assertions. She's even lost boxing matches to other women! You would - maybe - have a point if she was undefeated.

There is a daily mail article that says otherwise. It’s looking like she may be XY. Unless you mean that her just saying it makes it so.

Oh if the Daily Mail says it is so, then it must be the truth!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

You literally cannot prove anything you just wrote. Khelif is a biological female, per her own words and her country's assertions. She's even lost boxing matches to other women! You would - maybe - have a point if she was undefeated.

There is a daily mail article that says otherwise. It’s looking like she may be XY. Unless you mean that her just saying it makes it so.

Why does your just saying so make her have XY chromosomes? Have you actually seen the results of a chromosomal test that she did?

Nobody has because the IBF is refusing to release the results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

You literally cannot prove anything you just wrote. Khelif is a biological female, per her own words and her country's assertions. She's even lost boxing matches to other women! You would - maybe - have a point if she was undefeated.

There is a daily mail article that says otherwise. It’s looking like she may be XY. Unless you mean that her just saying it makes it so.

“Daily Mail”? Ah! That well respected science journal! /s

Until Khalif releases the results of her karyotype her sex is anyone’s guess.

Why should she? Are you gonna ask all the other manly-looking Olympic female athletes to do the same?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason we have separate mens and women's competitions is for a good reason, as a reminder. It is inclusive, giving more people a chance to win. Combining sexes and making sports open means fewer opportunities (for women) to win.

That means that the question of who is a woman needs to be addressed rather than merely hand waved away. And there are a number of people who do not want to address the question and write down an answer.

I totally agree that it needs to be addressed. It does not mean people can just shit on an individual based on visual.

I also imagine setting the standards will be difficult and complex, and somewhat arbitrary.

It would seem appropriate to require people participating in women’s sports to be XX, and exclude any XY variant.

They already test for doping. Testing for XY chromosomes is no different.

The irony if you go down this path is that it would likely knock out a lot of female athletes who present according to Western feminine gender norms. And it may very well be that Khelif is XY but has higher testosterone level.

And if you're going to do this, then you need to test all previous Olympic medal winners to see if their wins should be vacated. Right?

This is the can of worms you want to open. You need to really think through all the ramifications.

Many/most sports governing bodies have already made rules about intersex athletes. It's not an unsolvable problem, like you are saying. It's not some scary can of worms, figuring out who is male or female. Past athletes may be disqualified going forward but medals are not taken away when eligibility rules change.

The IOC has a rule. You just don't like the rule. If they change the rule, other people will not like the rule. The current rule has been in place for a long time and no actual issues have arisen with it.

The IOC changed the rule in 1999, doing away with sex testing, although a “full 82 percent of female Olympians favored the continuation of sex testing, and 94 percent reported feeling no anxiety from the procedure”. (From npr’s “tested” podcast)
Perhaps they should just change it back?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

Where is your citation for Khalif being intersex?

The original chromosome tests, which even the boxing coach acknowledged in a French interview and the fact that Khalif withdrew their challenge with the boxing authority.

This is simply untrue. These are false rumors being spread.

[Anonymous]

If there are no truth to any of this, do posters believe Russia is targeting this boxer? Of all the boxers that submitted testing, they just picked this person to claim failed the test? To what end?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand how any of this is an issue. There are a tiny percentage of human beings that are born intersex. Which, fine. All accommodations should be made. But - scientifically - men are stronger, faster, have more endurance etc. Sure, Sydney McLauglin is going to beat your grandpa at anything. But she is not beating the times of the best male athletes. Intersex athletes like Caster Semenya and Imane Khalif have an unfair advantage. We all know that. They should compete with the men.

And running is one thing. But using that testosterone advantage for boxing? I mean, c'mon. Not remotely fair. It is abusive.

Where is your citation for Khalif being intersex?

The original chromosome tests, which even the boxing coach acknowledged in a French interview and the fact that Khalif withdrew their challenge with the boxing authority.

Which chromosome tests? Provide citations for all your gibberish. No test results have ever been released. The IBA won't even reveal the type of "test" they administered.

DP

This proves nothing. The IBA has not released the results. They are a corrupt organization with links to the Russian Mafia and Putin.