JK Rowling's gender policing finally caught up to her

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am asking this as a legitimate question because I’m not sure if this is true or not but I have read this online. Some people are claiming that she has had genetic testing that indicates she has a Y chromosome even though she presents as woman. Is this true and if so does that provide any meaningful advantages over women with XX chromosomes? Obviously, that doesn’t change her gender identity and people should respectful of that, but fairness in women’s sports is arguably separate from gender identity in some circumstances. I feel bad for her because she is from a very conservative country where most people are not accepting of LGBT rights. This discussion about her being a “man” likely creates a risk to her safety when she visits Algeria.

A Russian-dominated boxing authority made the claim that she "failed" an unspecified test in 2023. This boxing authority - which is arguably an arm of the Russian state - has been banned by the IOC:

The controversy about Khelif's gender and eligibility stems from the Russian-dominated International Boxing Association's decision to disqualify her and a boxer from Taiwan from last year's world championships. The association said Khelif's disqualification — which came after she defeated a Russian opponent — was due to failing an unspecified eligibility test.

Its leaders and procedures have since come under fire from the International Olympic Committee, which a year ago banned the association after years of serious concerns about its financial transparency and competition governance.

The IOC has called the testing done on Khelif and Lin " impossibly flawed," and seemingly another part of a Russian-fueled defamation campaign directed at an Olympic Games from which its athletes are mostly banned from competing.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/summer/boxing/boxing-paris-olympic-semifinal-aug-6-1.7287538

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The US will refuse to extradite Elon musk for a crime based on protected Speech in the US. I also don’t understand French law, but it seems like a potential jurisdictional issue to me if he made these posts outside of France especially while not physically the EU.

Musk has financial ties to the EU. He's a billionaire. He has ties to every continent.

I hope France will find a way. Not that it matters.

[Anonymous]

A laboratory test seems like the easiest way to put this to rest.

If there are any “Y” chromosomes detected, the boxer is male. If not, the boxer is female. This is a binary outcome. One or the other. And then we’ll know the answer.


I trust science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The US will refuse to extradite Elon musk for a crime based on protected Speech in the US. I also don’t understand French law, but it seems like a potential jurisdictional issue to me if he made these posts outside of France especially while not physically the EU.

There are sure to be jurisdictional questions, but if someone directed their speech into a country and caused an injury to a person in that country, then there is probably a good case for jurisdiction. As for extradition, we're not talking about a crime. It's a civil case. If Musk doesn't want to defend himself, that would be his choice. If she got a civil money judgment against either of them, enforcement would be the next question. With their far flung business interests, it seems like that there are assets in France that the judgment creditor could pursue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The US will refuse to extradite Elon musk for a crime based on protected Speech in the US. I also don’t understand French law, but it seems like a potential jurisdictional issue to me if he made these posts outside of France especially while not physically the EU.

Is this an extraditable offense?

I think it's just a monetary penalty, payable to the French state and Khelif.

Frankly, Khelif will probably also go after Rowling in UK courts which has famously strict libel laws and Rowling is a UK citizen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A laboratory test seems like the easiest way to put this to rest.

If there are any “Y” chromosomes detected, the boxer is male. If not, the boxer is female. This is a binary outcome. One or the other. And then we’ll know the answer.


I trust science.

That's .... not how science works. It can tell you whether a Y chromosome is present. That doesn't tell you that a person without a penis and who has been a female all her life is suddenly a man for purposes of international boxing competitions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A laboratory test seems like the easiest way to put this to rest.

If there are any “Y” chromosomes detected, the boxer is male. If not, the boxer is female. This is a binary outcome. One or the other. And then we’ll know the answer.

I trust science.

If a man with male genitalia has an X chromosome, is he automatically female?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A laboratory test seems like the easiest way to put this to rest.

If there are any “Y” chromosomes detected, the boxer is male. If not, the boxer is female. This is a binary outcome. One or the other. And then we’ll know the answer.


I trust science.

It's not always that simple. Please educate yourself. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/issue/january-2017

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The US will refuse to extradite Elon musk for a crime based on protected Speech in the US. I also don’t understand French law, but it seems like a potential jurisdictional issue to me if he made these posts outside of France especially while not physically the EU.

Musk has financial ties to the EU. He's a billionaire. He has ties to every continent.

I hope France will find a way. Not that it matters.

Well even though I disagree with his speech I don’t think the US should ever extradite people for criminal charges in other countries related to constitutionally protected speech. It sets a very dangerous precedent that
be weaponized against US citizens to silence them. I do not think France or any other country should be able to send my grandmother to jail for offensive Facebook comments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A laboratory test seems like the easiest way to put this to rest.

If there are any “Y” chromosomes detected, the boxer is male. If not, the boxer is female. This is a binary outcome. One or the other. And then we’ll know the answer.


I trust science.

According to science, it is possible for females to have Y chromosomes. It is not binary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The US will refuse to extradite Elon musk for a crime based on protected Speech in the US. I also don’t understand French law, but it seems like a potential jurisdictional issue to me if he made these posts outside of France especially while not physically the EU.

Musk has financial ties to the EU. He's a billionaire. He has ties to every continent.

I hope France will find a way. Not that it matters.

Well even though I disagree with his speech I don’t think the US should ever extradite people for criminal charges in other countries related to constitutionally protected speech. It sets a very dangerous precedent that
be weaponized against US citizens to silence them. I do not think France or any other country should be able to send my grandmother to jail for offensive Facebook comments.

No one is extraditing Musk for speech. But he's probably going to have to pay some money to Khelif for hate-based libel. He's got to pay the Troll Toll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The US will refuse to extradite Elon musk for a crime based on protected Speech in the US. I also don’t understand French law, but it seems like a potential jurisdictional issue to me if he made these posts outside of France especially while not physically the EU.

Is this an extraditable offense?

I think it's just a monetary penalty, payable to the French state and Khelif.

Frankly, Khelif will probably also go after Rowling in UK courts which has famously strict libel laws and Rowling is a UK citizen.

I was watching the news last night and it said that prosecution under this French hate speech law can include fines and up to 10 years in jail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm no expert, so huge grains of salt. But here is my impression from casual observation:

I think Rowling was poorly treated by men (or at least a man) and, for that reason, has strong feelings about women's need to be protected from men. This led to heartfelt feelings about having biological males in female spaces.

(I take no real position on the right way to resolve those questions - I think they can be challenging & people of good faith can disagree; and I think that people of bad faith can use these questions as pretexts for bigotry).

In any event, Rowling expressed these feelings, possibly poorly and definitely in a way that caused offense. That said, the initial writings I saw from Rowling on this subject were not strident and, likely due to her prominence, trans-advocates came at her hard. At this point, Rowling doubled down and became more strident.

She reminds me of centrists who get attacked by the online left for having feet of clay; only to find a warm embrace from the right. Suddenly they're fascists, not so much because they like the racism and the genocide but because they like being popular.

I agreed up until your last paragraph.

She was subjected to incredible vitriol and hate (including numerous death threats) from the left for her initial "non-strident" positions.

This understandably radicalized her.

Not because she "wanted to be popular". Because she was ostracized and threatened for expressing fairly tame opinions.

The left's hate and oppression made her a terrorist, so to speak.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A laboratory test seems like the easiest way to put this to rest.

If there are any “Y” chromosomes detected, the boxer is male. If not, the boxer is female. This is a binary outcome. One or the other. And then we’ll know the answer.


I trust science.

That's .... not how science works. It can tell you whether a Y chromosome is present. That doesn't tell you that a person without a penis and who has been a female all her life is suddenly a man for purposes of international boxing competitions.

International Boxing Association's president had previously said a test had shown she had XY chromosomes and therefore did not meet their eligibility criteria.

[Anonymous]

I'm not an expert in French law. But I find it baffling how France can pursue charges against the 8 billion people who don't live in France simply for voicing an opinion. If the entire planet is liable for their thoughts, the rational response would be for all tech companies and platforms to isolate France and ensure that the French cannot use the internet. It doesn't work if Jacques in Paris can sue any rando in a different country for suggesting that maybe it's not fair for a person with unusual genes to beat the crap out of women for sport. And why pursue JK Rowling and not Susan in Des Moines who expressed a similar opinion? Are the French aware of what the rest of the planet said about their opening ceremony? Is everyone now liable for expressing a thought that differs from the prevailing opinions in Lyon? It makes no sense.