Woman charged with felony for having a stillbirth

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's pretty clear this prosecution is about getting a case on the record that gives personhood to a 2nd trimester fetus.

Yup. So a DEAD second trimester fetus will have more rights to its bodily autonomy than a living human woman. MAGA!

I love all you people coming on here who have never held a second-trimester fetus. Once it is outside the uterus it is no longer a fetus, it is a baby. I held my 22 week baby, the nurse dressed her, and took photos. Yes, that baby is worth the dignity of not being flushed down the toilet. It has nothing to do with being "MAGA," it has to do with being a mother. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, human about flushing a baby down the toilet. You haven't seen a baby outside the uterus at that stage of gestation, so I suggest you keep your small-minded, uninformed opinion to yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is a fetus that died in utero and was never born alive or breathed air considered a corpse? Is there a legal obligation to dispose of it in any particular way?

The baby died. There was no heartbeat. Doctors told her twice to just go home.

So why is she being penalized and criminalized for following the medical instructions given to her?

These states that are outlawing abortions and D&Cs need to require doctors to provide clear instructions and treatment options to women who present with dead or unviable fetuses still in their body. Provide a Best Practice set of Guideline for exactly what a woman should do when that dead fetus passes, and where the fetus needs to go.

I can’ believe this is not in place already. I’m disappointed in the medical community for not providing this critical information to the women in this country.

All the articles that I have read said the pregnancy was non viable. Where are you getting that there was no heartbeat?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a woman who delivered two babies at 20 weeks and I can promise you, that woman did not sit on the toilet and just pop that dead baby out into the toilet and surprisingly hear a splash. Delivering a baby at that term, dead or alive, is every bit as painful as a full-term delivery--I know this, as I have done both, multiple times. You don't just go, oh, I have to pee, and then, hey what was that splash, oh, a baby! Then flush. This wasn't shock. This was foul play. She tried to flush a dead baby down the toilet. And everyone here knows why but won't say. She was very likely covering up a dead baby who had drugs in its system.

Wait what? This escalated quickly. IF (big if), why would she motivated to hide the drug in system issue? Are dead babies tested for drugs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's pretty clear this prosecution is about getting a case on the record that gives personhood to a 2nd trimester fetus.

Yup. So a DEAD second trimester fetus will have more rights to its bodily autonomy than a living human woman. MAGA!

I love all you people coming on here who have never held a second-trimester fetus. Once it is outside the uterus it is no longer a fetus, it is a baby. I held my 22 week baby, the nurse dressed her, and took photos. Yes, that baby is worth the dignity of not being flushed down the toilet. It has nothing to do with being "MAGA," it has to do with being a mother. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, human about flushing a baby down the toilet. You haven't seen a baby outside the uterus at that stage of gestation, so I suggest you keep your small-minded, uninformed opinion to yourself.

If this woman’s 20-22 week unviable fetus body was so important, then why didn’t the doctors at the hospital keep her there until this fetus passed, and give the mother and the fetus the dignity you feel they deserved?

Your blame on this mother is misplaced. You should blame the medical team and Ohio lawmakers that created this no-win situation for this mother and the fetus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the hospital didn’t care about the fetus, refused help, it was already dead, could have killed her if not finally expelled, and she’s supposed to essentially do the healthcare workers jobs? Because no one else would or showed any care or concern? If they wanted a dignified end of pregnancy- for the fetus of course, not the mother- perhaps they shouldn’t have passed laws that made this outcome inevitable.

We said this would happen. No way you all said. Yet here we are. Didn’t take long.

Where are you getting this from? A non viable fetus does not equal a dead fetus. At this point we have no idea when it died. And we have no idea what the hospital did or didn’t do.
But don’t let that stop you.

We know she had a ruptured membrane and went to the hospital and they sent her home saying that she would deliver in 24 hours.

If they think she’s gonna deliver a baby, they should’ve kept her. If they think it’s a miscarriage they send you home.

Where did you get this info from? I haven’t read anything like that yet.

The ME testified that she had ruptured membranes and that she had medical records from two hospital visits. It’s in the link in the OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She should definitely be suing the hospital(s) and the state. This is a complete horror.

The facts that people are just simply making up here to fit their agenda is astounding. She is not being arrested for having a stillbirth. She is being charged with attempting to flush a dead baby down the toilet. And it doesn't sound like that fact is in dispute. What is in dispute here is whether or not it is fine and dandy to flush a dead baby down the toilet. Those of you who keep saying she had a "miscarriage" into the toilet are getting that wrong. One previous poster accurately described the size and appearance of a baby at 22 weeks gestation (and yes, the facts seem to indicate that it was a baby at 22 weeks gestation, not that she had been carrying a fetus that had already stopped gestating weeks earlier as at least one poster claims--that is not the fact. The baby was 22 weeks). Also, at 22 weeks it is not really a miscarriage. Some will call it that. Mine was diagnosed officially as spontaneous abortion, not miscarriage. There was a reason the police were called, and maybe we will learn of that some day, maybe we won't. But OP, you need to stop using this story to promote your pro-abortion agenda. This woman is not charged with a felony for a stillbirth. She is charged with a felony for attempting to flush her stillborn baby down the toilet. It sounds horrible for her and I can sympathize somewhat, having also had a mid-term birth of a baby. I think that's why I find OP's and other's attempts to use this story to fit their own agendas so offensive. They have absolutely no idea what a baby is like at 22 weeks gestation. I do.

tell us where you delivered your 22 week stillbirth. in a hospital covered by insurance? what happened when you went to the hospital?

Sibley Hospital, that's where. I was having contractions. Was told maybe I was in labor, but nothing they could do and sent me home. Ten hours later I was in severe pain and bleeding profusely. Did I just deliver the baby at home and flush it down the toilet? No. I went back to the hospital at 1 am and delivered a baby about 5 hours later. Insurance or not, were I in labor, they would have allowed me to deliver the baby. They would not have sent me home to deliver the baby that second time with instructions to flush it down the toilet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I realize this might be a macabre question, but I would think that intent would have to be 100% certain before charging any crime involving corpse desecration. (There must be all sorts of accidents and problems transporting and burying the deceased, I hate to even think...) And even assuming that somehow intent to desecrate was somehow shown here, why is "flushing" a corpse any worse than e.g. burning a corpse or digging a hole in the back yard. Is there even any law yet at what point a miscarriage requires a "proper burial" or whatever else apparently is deemed necessary here. This whole case is absurd from top to bottom.

This was clearly some sort of punishment for the abortion that lawmakers think this (black) mother was attempting to receive and/or self-adminiarwe with respect to an already dead fetus. None of this otherwise makes any sense.

I think the people prosecuting this are men, who have no idea what a miscarriage is like. Honestly, before I had mine I would have been clueless about the process myself. But when I miscarried at 11 weeks, the remains went into the toilet and all I could do was to flush them. I could totally see this happening to this woman, after having been sent home from the hospital twice. I’m disgusted that they would try to prosecute her for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's pretty clear this prosecution is about getting a case on the record that gives personhood to a 2nd trimester fetus.

Yup. So a DEAD second trimester fetus will have more rights to its bodily autonomy than a living human woman. MAGA!

I love all you people coming on here who have never held a second-trimester fetus. Once it is outside the uterus it is no longer a fetus, it is a baby. I held my 22 week baby, the nurse dressed her, and took photos. Yes, that baby is worth the dignity of not being flushed down the toilet. It has nothing to do with being "MAGA," it has to do with being a mother. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, human about flushing a baby down the toilet. You haven't seen a baby outside the uterus at that stage of gestation, so I suggest you keep your small-minded, uninformed opinion to yourself.

Your 22-week baby hadn’t died weeks earlier. I’m horrified by what that fetus could have looked like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's pretty clear this prosecution is about getting a case on the record that gives personhood to a 2nd trimester fetus.

Yup. So a DEAD second trimester fetus will have more rights to its bodily autonomy than a living human woman. MAGA!

I love all you people coming on here who have never held a second-trimester fetus. Once it is outside the uterus it is no longer a fetus, it is a baby. I held my 22 week baby, the nurse dressed her, and took photos. Yes, that baby is worth the dignity of not being flushed down the toilet. It has nothing to do with being "MAGA," it has to do with being a mother. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, human about flushing a baby down the toilet. You haven't seen a baby outside the uterus at that stage of gestation, so I suggest you keep your small-minded, uninformed opinion to yourself.

If this woman’s 20-22 week unviable fetus body was so important, then why didn’t the doctors at the hospital keep her there until this fetus passed, and give the mother and the fetus the dignity you feel they deserved?

Your blame on this mother is misplaced. You should blame the medical team and Ohio lawmakers that created this no-win situation for this mother and the fetus.

How do you know they didn’t offer to keep her, and she refused?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's pretty clear this prosecution is about getting a case on the record that gives personhood to a 2nd trimester fetus.

Yup. So a DEAD second trimester fetus will have more rights to its bodily autonomy than a living human woman. MAGA!

I love all you people coming on here who have never held a second-trimester fetus. Once it is outside the uterus it is no longer a fetus, it is a baby. I held my 22 week baby, the nurse dressed her, and took photos. Yes, that baby is worth the dignity of not being flushed down the toilet. It has nothing to do with being "MAGA," it has to do with being a mother. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, human about flushing a baby down the toilet. You haven't seen a baby outside the uterus at that stage of gestation, so I suggest you keep your small-minded, uninformed opinion to yourself.

Blah blah blah we know about your 22 weeker since you keep repeating it over and over. What you need to keep hearing over and over is the fetus of this story was not 22 weeks nor born alive. It was dead and had died weeks before. Why can’t you understand that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a woman who delivered two babies at 20 weeks and I can promise you, that woman did not sit on the toilet and just pop that dead baby out into the toilet and surprisingly hear a splash. Delivering a baby at that term, dead or alive, is every bit as painful as a full-term delivery--I know this, as I have done both, multiple times. You don't just go, oh, I have to pee, and then, hey what was that splash, oh, a baby! Then flush. This wasn't shock. This was foul play. She tried to flush a dead baby down the toilet. And everyone here knows why but won't say. She was very likely covering up a dead baby who had drugs in its system.

Wait what? This escalated quickly. IF (big if), why would she motivated to hide the drug in system issue? Are dead babies tested for drugs?

When the mothers may be drug users and are flushing their babies down the toilet, yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a woman who delivered two babies at 20 weeks and I can promise you, that woman did not sit on the toilet and just pop that dead baby out into the toilet and surprisingly hear a splash. Delivering a baby at that term, dead or alive, is every bit as painful as a full-term delivery--I know this, as I have done both, multiple times. You don't just go, oh, I have to pee, and then, hey what was that splash, oh, a baby! Then flush. This wasn't shock. This was foul play. She tried to flush a dead baby down the toilet. And everyone here knows why but won't say. She was very likely covering up a dead baby who had drugs in its system.

Wait what? This escalated quickly. IF (big if), why would she motivated to hide the drug in system issue? Are dead babies tested for drugs?

Pp invented that. There’s no indications of that being an issue, and she had gone to the hospital twice for this issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is a fetus that died in utero and was never born alive or breathed air considered a corpse? Is there a legal obligation to dispose of it in any particular way?

The baby died. There was no heartbeat. Doctors told her twice to just go home.

So why is she being penalized and criminalized for following the medical instructions given to her?

These states that are outlawing abortions and D&Cs need to require doctors to provide clear instructions and treatment options to women who present with dead or unviable fetuses still in their body. Provide a Best Practice set of Guideline for exactly what a woman should do when that dead fetus passes, and where the fetus needs to go.

I can’ believe this is not in place already. I’m disappointed in the medical community for not providing this critical information to the women in this country.

All the articles that I have read said the pregnancy was non viable. Where are you getting that there was no heartbeat?

From the OP article:
“ Forensic pathologist Dr. George Sterbenz testified an autopsy found no injury to the fetus, and that the unborn fetus had died before passing through the birth canal.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the hospital didn’t care about the fetus, refused help, it was already dead, could have killed her if not finally expelled, and she’s supposed to essentially do the healthcare workers jobs? Because no one else would or showed any care or concern? If they wanted a dignified end of pregnancy- for the fetus of course, not the mother- perhaps they shouldn’t have passed laws that made this outcome inevitable.

We said this would happen. No way you all said. Yet here we are. Didn’t take long.

Where are you getting this from? A non viable fetus does not equal a dead fetus. At this point we have no idea when it died. And we have no idea what the hospital did or didn’t do.
But don’t let that stop you.

We know she had a ruptured membrane and went to the hospital and they sent her home saying that she would deliver in 24 hours.

If they think she’s gonna deliver a baby, they should’ve kept her. If they think it’s a miscarriage they send you home.

Where did you get this info from? I haven’t read anything like that yet.

The ME testified that she had ruptured membranes and that she had medical records from two hospital visits. It’s in the link in the OP.

No I saw that. What I didn’t see was the part where they sent her home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's pretty clear this prosecution is about getting a case on the record that gives personhood to a 2nd trimester fetus.

Yup. So a DEAD second trimester fetus will have more rights to its bodily autonomy than a living human woman. MAGA!

I love all you people coming on here who have never held a second-trimester fetus. Once it is outside the uterus it is no longer a fetus, it is a baby. I held my 22 week baby, the nurse dressed her, and took photos. Yes, that baby is worth the dignity of not being flushed down the toilet. It has nothing to do with being "MAGA," it has to do with being a mother. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, human about flushing a baby down the toilet. You haven't seen a baby outside the uterus at that stage of gestation, so I suggest you keep your small-minded, uninformed opinion to yourself.

If this woman’s 20-22 week unviable fetus body was so important, then why didn’t the doctors at the hospital keep her there until this fetus passed, and give the mother and the fetus the dignity you feel they deserved?

Your blame on this mother is misplaced. You should blame the medical team and Ohio lawmakers that created this no-win situation for this mother and the fetus.

How do you know they didn’t offer to keep her, and she refused?

I’m sure if she had left the hospital against medical advice, that would have been part of the prosecutor’s case.