Summer swim absurd age rules

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why this tread is still going on.

The summer swim season is so short. Are you really going to have a kid who was 8 at the start of the season and swam time trials as an 8 year old have to swim 50s for maybe the last 2-3 weeks of the season if they have an early July birthday? How does that even make sense?

The year round swim season is longer so I get that their policy is you age up on the day of your birthday. There aren't time trials and a ladder involved. As a team rep, I can't get my head around how we would handle a kid aging up in the middle of the season and needing new times.

Also one of my kids has the "perfect summer swim birthday" and it really hasn't given my kid a huge advantage because my child is already small for their age. Its not this magical advangate everyone seems to think it is. And with a two year age group, things even out every other year. This thread is seriously making my head hurt! Get over it!

If the cut-off date changed from June 1 to August 1 next year, you'd immediately see how much of an advantage it was for the kids who aged up by two years. Say the average 10 year old is improving by 3 seconds a year. If they age up by two years next year, they'd need to improve by 6 seconds next year just to keep up. Otherwise they'd fall 3 seconds behind the pack, which might not seem like much now but add 3 seconds to every event for an average 10 year old and see how many places that costs them every week.

What are you talking about? There would still be a whole bunch of August, September, and October kids swimming.

I have one kid who has a really “bad” birthday for summer swim and one kid who has a “good” birthday for summer swim.

I also know a kid who has a really bad soccer birthday (December) and a kid who has a really good soccer birthday (January).

I can name lots of other sports where this is the case.

It’s the nature of team sports.

I get that you want your child to have an advantage, but you really just have to accept that in this case, your child doesn’t.

I actually think the only people who would complain would be club swim parents. They expect their kid to beat everyone and when they don’t, they have to blame it on something. Summer-only swim parents - swim isn’t their thing - so they don’t care so much about it.

If there’s one thing that I’ve learned about the summer swim threads is that the summer only parents are super invested in it. They complain that the club kids are part of it, think there are conspiracies whereby coaches favor the club kids, etc. The good club kids, especially when you get into the 11-12 group and above, are beating everyone. Sure, they have competition with each other, but they also compete against each other all year long. Club kids and parents also get that sometimes you are on the top of age group and sometimes the bottom, some birthdays are “better”, etc. and already used to rolling with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why this tread is still going on.

The summer swim season is so short. Are you really going to have a kid who was 8 at the start of the season and swam time trials as an 8 year old have to swim 50s for maybe the last 2-3 weeks of the season if they have an early July birthday? How does that even make sense?

The year round swim season is longer so I get that their policy is you age up on the day of your birthday. There aren't time trials and a ladder involved. As a team rep, I can't get my head around how we would handle a kid aging up in the middle of the season and needing new times.

Also one of my kids has the "perfect summer swim birthday" and it really hasn't given my kid a huge advantage because my child is already small for their age. Its not this magical advangate everyone seems to think it is. And with a two year age group, things even out every other year. This thread is seriously making my head hurt! Get over it!

If the cut-off date changed from June 1 to August 1 next year, you'd immediately see how much of an advantage it was for the kids who aged up by two years. Say the average 10 year old is improving by 3 seconds a year. If they age up by two years next year, they'd need to improve by 6 seconds next year just to keep up. Otherwise they'd fall 3 seconds behind the pack, which might not seem like much now but add 3 seconds to every event for an average 10 year old and see how many places that costs them every week.

What are you talking about? There would still be a whole bunch of August, September, and October kids swimming.

I have one kid who has a really “bad” birthday for summer swim and one kid who has a “good” birthday for summer swim.

I also know a kid who has a really bad soccer birthday (December) and a kid who has a really good soccer birthday (January).

I can name lots of other sports where this is the case.

It’s the nature of team sports.

I get that you want your child to have an advantage, but you really just have to accept that in this case, your child doesn’t.

I actually think the only people who would complain would be club swim parents. They expect their kid to beat everyone and when they don’t, they have to blame it on something. Summer-only swim parents - swim isn’t their thing - so they don’t care so much about it.

If there’s one thing that I’ve learned about the summer swim threads is that the summer only parents are super invested in it. They complain that the club kids are part of it, think there are conspiracies whereby coaches favor the club kids, etc. The good club kids, especially when you get into the 11-12 group and above, are beating everyone. Sure, they have competition with each other, but they also compete against each other all year long. Club kids and parents also get that sometimes you are on the top of age group and sometimes the bottom, some birthdays are “better”, etc. and already used to rolling with it.

This part is definitely true. How would it look for a club coach's recruiting effort if a kid who played other sports all winter won the high point award of his club swimmer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why this tread is still going on.

The summer swim season is so short. Are you really going to have a kid who was 8 at the start of the season and swam time trials as an 8 year old have to swim 50s for maybe the last 2-3 weeks of the season if they have an early July birthday? How does that even make sense?

The year round swim season is longer so I get that their policy is you age up on the day of your birthday. There aren't time trials and a ladder involved. As a team rep, I can't get my head around how we would handle a kid aging up in the middle of the season and needing new times.

Also one of my kids has the "perfect summer swim birthday" and it really hasn't given my kid a huge advantage because my child is already small for their age. Its not this magical advangate everyone seems to think it is. And with a two year age group, things even out every other year. This thread is seriously making my head hurt! Get over it!

If the cut-off date changed from June 1 to August 1 next year, you'd immediately see how much of an advantage it was for the kids who aged up by two years. Say the average 10 year old is improving by 3 seconds a year. If they age up by two years next year, they'd need to improve by 6 seconds next year just to keep up. Otherwise they'd fall 3 seconds behind the pack, which might not seem like much now but add 3 seconds to every event for an average 10 year old and see how many places that costs them every week.

What are you talking about? There would still be a whole bunch of August, September, and October kids swimming.

I have one kid who has a really “bad” birthday for summer swim and one kid who has a “good” birthday for summer swim.

I also know a kid who has a really bad soccer birthday (December) and a kid who has a really good soccer birthday (January).

I can name lots of other sports where this is the case.

It’s the nature of team sports.

I get that you want your child to have an advantage, but you really just have to accept that in this case, your child doesn’t.

I actually think the only people who would complain would be club swim parents. They expect their kid to beat everyone and when they don’t, they have to blame it on something. Summer-only swim parents - swim isn’t their thing - so they don’t care so much about it.

If there’s one thing that I’ve learned about the summer swim threads is that the summer only parents are super invested in it. They complain that the club kids are part of it, think there are conspiracies whereby coaches favor the club kids, etc. The good club kids, especially when you get into the 11-12 group and above, are beating everyone. Sure, they have competition with each other, but they also compete against each other all year long. Club kids and parents also get that sometimes you are on the top of age group and sometimes the bottom, some birthdays are “better”, etc. and already used to rolling with it.

This part is definitely true. How would it look for a club coach's recruiting effort if a kid who played other sports all winter won the high point award of his club swimmer?

And there you have it. Summer only parents don’t care at all

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why this tread is still going on.

The summer swim season is so short. Are you really going to have a kid who was 8 at the start of the season and swam time trials as an 8 year old have to swim 50s for maybe the last 2-3 weeks of the season if they have an early July birthday? How does that even make sense?

The year round swim season is longer so I get that their policy is you age up on the day of your birthday. There aren't time trials and a ladder involved. As a team rep, I can't get my head around how we would handle a kid aging up in the middle of the season and needing new times.

Also one of my kids has the "perfect summer swim birthday" and it really hasn't given my kid a huge advantage because my child is already small for their age. Its not this magical advangate everyone seems to think it is. And with a two year age group, things even out every other year. This thread is seriously making my head hurt! Get over it!

If the cut-off date changed from June 1 to August 1 next year, you'd immediately see how much of an advantage it was for the kids who aged up by two years. Say the average 10 year old is improving by 3 seconds a year. If they age up by two years next year, they'd need to improve by 6 seconds next year just to keep up. Otherwise they'd fall 3 seconds behind the pack, which might not seem like much now but add 3 seconds to every event for an average 10 year old and see how many places that costs them every week.

What are you talking about? There would still be a whole bunch of August, September, and October kids swimming.

I have one kid who has a really “bad” birthday for summer swim and one kid who has a “good” birthday for summer swim.

I also know a kid who has a really bad soccer birthday (December) and a kid who has a really good soccer birthday (January).

I can name lots of other sports where this is the case.

It’s the nature of team sports.

I get that you want your child to have an advantage, but you really just have to accept that in this case, your child doesn’t.

I actually think the only people who would complain would be club swim parents. They expect their kid to beat everyone and when they don’t, they have to blame it on something. Summer-only swim parents - swim isn’t their thing - so they don’t care so much about it.

If there’s one thing that I’ve learned about the summer swim threads is that the summer only parents are super invested in it. They complain that the club kids are part of it, think there are conspiracies whereby coaches favor the club kids, etc. The good club kids, especially when you get into the 11-12 group and above, are beating everyone. Sure, they have competition with each other, but they also compete against each other all year long. Club kids and parents also get that sometimes you are on the top of age group and sometimes the bottom, some birthdays are “better”, etc. and already used to rolling with it.

This part is definitely true. How would it look for a club coach's recruiting effort if a kid who played other sports all winter won the high point award of his club swimmer?

And there you have it. Summer only parents don’t care at all

I'm highlighting a case where summer only parents do care, thank you. Coaches can and do seed meets to favor their club swimmers. In some cases that can mean the summer only swimmer who is a little better won't win the high point award thereby annoying the summer only parents who think club swimming is a pay for play racket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why this tread is still going on.

The summer swim season is so short. Are you really going to have a kid who was 8 at the start of the season and swam time trials as an 8 year old have to swim 50s for maybe the last 2-3 weeks of the season if they have an early July birthday? How does that even make sense?

The year round swim season is longer so I get that their policy is you age up on the day of your birthday. There aren't time trials and a ladder involved. As a team rep, I can't get my head around how we would handle a kid aging up in the middle of the season and needing new times.

Also one of my kids has the "perfect summer swim birthday" and it really hasn't given my kid a huge advantage because my child is already small for their age. Its not this magical advangate everyone seems to think it is. And with a two year age group, things even out every other year. This thread is seriously making my head hurt! Get over it!

If the cut-off date changed from June 1 to August 1 next year, you'd immediately see how much of an advantage it was for the kids who aged up by two years. Say the average 10 year old is improving by 3 seconds a year. If they age up by two years next year, they'd need to improve by 6 seconds next year just to keep up. Otherwise they'd fall 3 seconds behind the pack, which might not seem like much now but add 3 seconds to every event for an average 10 year old and see how many places that costs them every week.

What are you talking about? There would still be a whole bunch of August, September, and October kids swimming.

I have one kid who has a really “bad” birthday for summer swim and one kid who has a “good” birthday for summer swim.

I also know a kid who has a really bad soccer birthday (December) and a kid who has a really good soccer birthday (January).

I can name lots of other sports where this is the case.

It’s the nature of team sports.

I get that you want your child to have an advantage, but you really just have to accept that in this case, your child doesn’t.

I actually think the only people who would complain would be club swim parents. They expect their kid to beat everyone and when they don’t, they have to blame it on something. Summer-only swim parents - swim isn’t their thing - so they don’t care so much about it.

I wasn't advocating for anything on behalf of my child. I was simply pointing out that the kids that fall on either side of the cut line experience quite an advantage or disadvantage relative to their peers who are 1-2 months older or younger. Whether they are winning or not it's still an advantage, they just aren't losing by as much as they would otherwise. It is what it is.

It's so odd to me that swim parents are fixated on this. Those with kids with August birthdays deal with this all of the time. My kid would love to play AAC basketball, but was born the day before the cutoff. She'd likely make the 9U team, but is shut out because I was induced so she was born two hours before the cut off. Skill wise, she just missed making the 10U team, but it was also obvious at try outs that she was very young. Most players have fall birthdays. It's the similar for rec basketball and rec soccer, where she's also the youngest. Thems the shakes.

Your kid's birthday doesn't prevent them from excelling at swimming, as club swim doesn't use a fixed cutoff. Stop fixating on summer swim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why this tread is still going on.

The summer swim season is so short. Are you really going to have a kid who was 8 at the start of the season and swam time trials as an 8 year old have to swim 50s for maybe the last 2-3 weeks of the season if they have an early July birthday? How does that even make sense?

The year round swim season is longer so I get that their policy is you age up on the day of your birthday. There aren't time trials and a ladder involved. As a team rep, I can't get my head around how we would handle a kid aging up in the middle of the season and needing new times.

Also one of my kids has the "perfect summer swim birthday" and it really hasn't given my kid a huge advantage because my child is already small for their age. Its not this magical advangate everyone seems to think it is. And with a two year age group, things even out every other year. This thread is seriously making my head hurt! Get over it!

If the cut-off date changed from June 1 to August 1 next year, you'd immediately see how much of an advantage it was for the kids who aged up by two years. Say the average 10 year old is improving by 3 seconds a year. If they age up by two years next year, they'd need to improve by 6 seconds next year just to keep up. Otherwise they'd fall 3 seconds behind the pack, which might not seem like much now but add 3 seconds to every event for an average 10 year old and see how many places that costs them every week.

What are you talking about? There would still be a whole bunch of August, September, and October kids swimming.

I have one kid who has a really “bad” birthday for summer swim and one kid who has a “good” birthday for summer swim.

I also know a kid who has a really bad soccer birthday (December) and a kid who has a really good soccer birthday (January).

I can name lots of other sports where this is the case.

It’s the nature of team sports.

I get that you want your child to have an advantage, but you really just have to accept that in this case, your child doesn’t.

I actually think the only people who would complain would be club swim parents. They expect their kid to beat everyone and when they don’t, they have to blame it on something. Summer-only swim parents - swim isn’t their thing - so they don’t care so much about it.

If there’s one thing that I’ve learned about the summer swim threads is that the summer only parents are super invested in it. They complain that the club kids are part of it, think there are conspiracies whereby coaches favor the club kids, etc. The good club kids, especially when you get into the 11-12 group and above, are beating everyone. Sure, they have competition with each other, but they also compete against each other all year long. Club kids and parents also get that sometimes you are on the top of age group and sometimes the bottom, some birthdays are “better”, etc. and already used to rolling with it.

This part is definitely true. How would it look for a club coach's recruiting effort if a kid who played other sports all winter won the high point award of his club swimmer?

And there you have it. Summer only parents don’t care at all

DP. Obviously! But the parents who pay for 5 day a week club swimming with said coach, sure as heck do. If their kid doesn’t get the trophy they start to question wtf they’re doing.

I am a parent of fast swimmer who only competes in the summer now, but still beats the kids whose parents are hustling them to 4:30 AM practice all year, and making them do doubles all summer! Coach 100% favors his club swimmers. Not a conspiracy. Documented fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why this tread is still going on.

The summer swim season is so short. Are you really going to have a kid who was 8 at the start of the season and swam time trials as an 8 year old have to swim 50s for maybe the last 2-3 weeks of the season if they have an early July birthday? How does that even make sense?

The year round swim season is longer so I get that their policy is you age up on the day of your birthday. There aren't time trials and a ladder involved. As a team rep, I can't get my head around how we would handle a kid aging up in the middle of the season and needing new times.

Also one of my kids has the "perfect summer swim birthday" and it really hasn't given my kid a huge advantage because my child is already small for their age. Its not this magical advangate everyone seems to think it is. And with a two year age group, things even out every other year. This thread is seriously making my head hurt! Get over it!

If the cut-off date changed from June 1 to August 1 next year, you'd immediately see how much of an advantage it was for the kids who aged up by two years. Say the average 10 year old is improving by 3 seconds a year. If they age up by two years next year, they'd need to improve by 6 seconds next year just to keep up. Otherwise they'd fall 3 seconds behind the pack, which might not seem like much now but add 3 seconds to every event for an average 10 year old and see how many places that costs them every week.

What are you talking about? There would still be a whole bunch of August, September, and October kids swimming.

I have one kid who has a really “bad” birthday for summer swim and one kid who has a “good” birthday for summer swim.

I also know a kid who has a really bad soccer birthday (December) and a kid who has a really good soccer birthday (January).

I can name lots of other sports where this is the case.

It’s the nature of team sports.

I get that you want your child to have an advantage, but you really just have to accept that in this case, your child doesn’t.

I actually think the only people who would complain would be club swim parents. They expect their kid to beat everyone and when they don’t, they have to blame it on something. Summer-only swim parents - swim isn’t their thing - so they don’t care so much about it.

If there’s one thing that I’ve learned about the summer swim threads is that the summer only parents are super invested in it. They complain that the club kids are part of it, think there are conspiracies whereby coaches favor the club kids, etc. The good club kids, especially when you get into the 11-12 group and above, are beating everyone. Sure, they have competition with each other, but they also compete against each other all year long. Club kids and parents also get that sometimes you are on the top of age group and sometimes the bottom, some birthdays are “better”, etc. and already used to rolling with it.

This part is definitely true. How would it look for a club coach's recruiting effort if a kid who played other sports all winter won the high point award of his club swimmer?

And there you have it. Summer only parents don’t care at all

DP. Obviously! But the parents who pay for 5 day a week club swimming with said coach, sure as heck do. If their kid doesn’t get the trophy they start to question wtf they’re doing.

I am a parent of fast swimmer who only competes in the summer now, but still beats the kids whose parents are hustling them to 4:30 AM practice all year, and making them do doubles all summer! Coach 100% favors his club swimmers. Not a conspiracy. Documented fact.

I’m going to be charitable and say that this is dependent on the culture of the club. I have 2 club swimmers and the coaches emphasize showing up and swimming well for the team, but swimmers and parents care very little about the actual hardware. A few weeks ago, my kid brought a trophy home that he won in 2020 and had never bothered to pick up. Both my kids have medals and ribbons and embroidered towels that are probably sitting in a closet somewhere because we never picked them up.

And kudos to your fast swimmer, but it’s really not a big deal to be faster than a club swimmer. Just like my kid who doesn’t play even rec soccer can out play kids who on the lower club teams, there are plenty of kids who are faster than club swimmers. Those kids swim for fitness, to be part of a team, and to improve, just like the faster kids. But if it makes you feel smug, go ahead and feel smug. Might as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:would it make people feel better if instead of the category being named 11-12, it was, say, "age 11 or 12 as of June 1 of this year" or even "born between June 1, 2010 and May 31, 2012"?

It would make people feel better if summer swim worked like year round swim.

The vast majority of people doing summer swim don't do year round swim. Kids who do already have huge advantages. Why would we change a system that works to accommodate them?

Frankly, I think it would be great if summer swim worked like many other sports. If you do club you can't do rec. You have to choose.

As a club parent, I would be fine if we could drop summer swim, it’s a time suck on top of the time we are still spending on club practice and meets during the summer. But all the bragging and pride people take in their pool’s summer league placement would disappear because all of that is not based on 8 year old Larla on the team for the first time, it’s based on the fast club kids.

YOU CAN drop summer swim.

I would drop it in a second, but my kid enjoys it. Plus the crap we would get from our pool because my kid is a top point earner would be annoying. In reality the pool cares way more about whether my club swimmer participates than the kid who won’t ever sniff an A meet. Summer swim in this area is what it is, which is why the club swimmers will never be barred from participating.

I doubt that you would be constantly bugged to return to summer swim if you didn't want to do it. It's great for any team to have a reliable winner in the A meet stable, but even the most loyal high-point swimmers eventually have conflicts with one or more meets, get sick, or graduate. Long-term team and pool families understand this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why this tread is still going on.

The summer swim season is so short. Are you really going to have a kid who was 8 at the start of the season and swam time trials as an 8 year old have to swim 50s for maybe the last 2-3 weeks of the season if they have an early July birthday? How does that even make sense?

The year round swim season is longer so I get that their policy is you age up on the day of your birthday. There aren't time trials and a ladder involved. As a team rep, I can't get my head around how we would handle a kid aging up in the middle of the season and needing new times.

Also one of my kids has the "perfect summer swim birthday" and it really hasn't given my kid a huge advantage because my child is already small for their age. Its not this magical advangate everyone seems to think it is. And with a two year age group, things even out every other year. This thread is seriously making my head hurt! Get over it!

If the cut-off date changed from June 1 to August 1 next year, you'd immediately see how much of an advantage it was for the kids who aged up by two years. Say the average 10 year old is improving by 3 seconds a year. If they age up by two years next year, they'd need to improve by 6 seconds next year just to keep up. Otherwise they'd fall 3 seconds behind the pack, which might not seem like much now but add 3 seconds to every event for an average 10 year old and see how many places that costs them every week.

What are you talking about? There would still be a whole bunch of August, September, and October kids swimming.

I have one kid who has a really “bad” birthday for summer swim and one kid who has a “good” birthday for summer swim.

I also know a kid who has a really bad soccer birthday (December) and a kid who has a really good soccer birthday (January).

I can name lots of other sports where this is the case.

It’s the nature of team sports.

I get that you want your child to have an advantage, but you really just have to accept that in this case, your child doesn’t.

I actually think the only people who would complain would be club swim parents. They expect their kid to beat everyone and when they don’t, they have to blame it on something. Summer-only swim parents - swim isn’t their thing - so they don’t care so much about it.

If there’s one thing that I’ve learned about the summer swim threads is that the summer only parents are super invested in it. They complain that the club kids are part of it, think there are conspiracies whereby coaches favor the club kids, etc. The good club kids, especially when you get into the 11-12 group and above, are beating everyone. Sure, they have competition with each other, but they also compete against each other all year long. Club kids and parents also get that sometimes you are on the top of age group and sometimes the bottom, some birthdays are “better”, etc. and already used to rolling with it.

This part is definitely true. How would it look for a club coach's recruiting effort if a kid who played other sports all winter won the high point award of his club swimmer?

And there you have it. Summer only parents don’t care at all

DP. Obviously! But the parents who pay for 5 day a week club swimming with said coach, sure as heck do. If their kid doesn’t get the trophy they start to question wtf they’re doing.

I am a parent of fast swimmer who only competes in the summer now, but still beats the kids whose parents are hustling them to 4:30 AM practice all year, and making them do doubles all summer! Coach 100% favors his club swimmers. Not a conspiracy. Documented fact.

We pay for club swimming and I only care my child slowly improves and enjoys it. They are slower club kids but I don’t care. They are not going to swim in college.

[Anonymous]

Maybe I'm naive, but isn't the lineup created so the team can win, regardless of who is club or who is summer only? And there are kids who are summer only who can beat a club swimmer. Some club swimmers only swim once a week, which hardly gives you any competitive edge. This is summer swim. Let the kids have fun and chill out.

[Anonymous]

Last year my summer bday kid was top in their age division and multiple people brought it up to my H and I. We thought it was really weird, all things have age cutoffs that impact kids differently. All the grade year cutoff sports make my kid the youngest on the team.

We assumed they’d be back swimming at B meets this year since they were at the bottom of the age bracket. That turned out not to be the case and they were top for the age group this year. No one mentioned their age to us. I have no doubt that next year or the following year a club swimmer will pass them and my kid understands that. They prefer other sports during the rest of the year.

I guess those of us with summer bday kids are more accustomed to age cutoff issues and that’s why summer swim age comes up year after year but not so much in other sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why this tread is still going on.

The summer swim season is so short. Are you really going to have a kid who was 8 at the start of the season and swam time trials as an 8 year old have to swim 50s for maybe the last 2-3 weeks of the season if they have an early July birthday? How does that even make sense?

The year round swim season is longer so I get that their policy is you age up on the day of your birthday. There aren't time trials and a ladder involved. As a team rep, I can't get my head around how we would handle a kid aging up in the middle of the season and needing new times.

Also one of my kids has the "perfect summer swim birthday" and it really hasn't given my kid a huge advantage because my child is already small for their age. Its not this magical advangate everyone seems to think it is. And with a two year age group, things even out every other year. This thread is seriously making my head hurt! Get over it!

If the cut-off date changed from June 1 to August 1 next year, you'd immediately see how much of an advantage it was for the kids who aged up by two years. Say the average 10 year old is improving by 3 seconds a year. If they age up by two years next year, they'd need to improve by 6 seconds next year just to keep up. Otherwise they'd fall 3 seconds behind the pack, which might not seem like much now but add 3 seconds to every event for an average 10 year old and see how many places that costs them every week.

What are you talking about? There would still be a whole bunch of August, September, and October kids swimming.

I have one kid who has a really “bad” birthday for summer swim and one kid who has a “good” birthday for summer swim.

I also know a kid who has a really bad soccer birthday (December) and a kid who has a really good soccer birthday (January).

I can name lots of other sports where this is the case.

It’s the nature of team sports.

I get that you want your child to have an advantage, but you really just have to accept that in this case, your child doesn’t.

I actually think the only people who would complain would be club swim parents. They expect their kid to beat everyone and when they don’t, they have to blame it on something. Summer-only swim parents - swim isn’t their thing - so they don’t care so much about it.

If there’s one thing that I’ve learned about the summer swim threads is that the summer only parents are super invested in it. They complain that the club kids are part of it, think there are conspiracies whereby coaches favor the club kids, etc. The good club kids, especially when you get into the 11-12 group and above, are beating everyone. Sure, they have competition with each other, but they also compete against each other all year long. Club kids and parents also get that sometimes you are on the top of age group and sometimes the bottom, some birthdays are “better”, etc. and already used to rolling with it.

This part is definitely true. How would it look for a club coach's recruiting effort if a kid who played other sports all winter won the high point award of his club swimmer?

And there you have it. Summer only parents don’t care at all

I'm highlighting a case where summer only parents do care, thank you. Coaches can and do seed meets to favor their club swimmers. In some cases that can mean the summer only swimmer who is a little better won't win the high point award thereby annoying the summer only parents who think club swimming is a pay for play racket.

I've never seen it in terms of high point awards, but it happens at our pool all the time with third lanes at A meets. If two kids are 4th and 5th on every stroke, it will just so happen that the strokes that the club swimmer sits above the non-club swimmer are the ones that the faster swimmers aren't swimming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand why this tread is still going on.

The summer swim season is so short. Are you really going to have a kid who was 8 at the start of the season and swam time trials as an 8 year old have to swim 50s for maybe the last 2-3 weeks of the season if they have an early July birthday? How does that even make sense?

The year round swim season is longer so I get that their policy is you age up on the day of your birthday. There aren't time trials and a ladder involved. As a team rep, I can't get my head around how we would handle a kid aging up in the middle of the season and needing new times.

Also one of my kids has the "perfect summer swim birthday" and it really hasn't given my kid a huge advantage because my child is already small for their age. Its not this magical advangate everyone seems to think it is. And with a two year age group, things even out every other year. This thread is seriously making my head hurt! Get over it!

If the cut-off date changed from June 1 to August 1 next year, you'd immediately see how much of an advantage it was for the kids who aged up by two years. Say the average 10 year old is improving by 3 seconds a year. If they age up by two years next year, they'd need to improve by 6 seconds next year just to keep up. Otherwise they'd fall 3 seconds behind the pack, which might not seem like much now but add 3 seconds to every event for an average 10 year old and see how many places that costs them every week.

What are you talking about? There would still be a whole bunch of August, September, and October kids swimming.

I have one kid who has a really “bad” birthday for summer swim and one kid who has a “good” birthday for summer swim.

I also know a kid who has a really bad soccer birthday (December) and a kid who has a really good soccer birthday (January).

I can name lots of other sports where this is the case.

It’s the nature of team sports.

I get that you want your child to have an advantage, but you really just have to accept that in this case, your child doesn’t.

I actually think the only people who would complain would be club swim parents. They expect their kid to beat everyone and when they don’t, they have to blame it on something. Summer-only swim parents - swim isn’t their thing - so they don’t care so much about it.

If there’s one thing that I’ve learned about the summer swim threads is that the summer only parents are super invested in it. They complain that the club kids are part of it, think there are conspiracies whereby coaches favor the club kids, etc. The good club kids, especially when you get into the 11-12 group and above, are beating everyone. Sure, they have competition with each other, but they also compete against each other all year long. Club kids and parents also get that sometimes you are on the top of age group and sometimes the bottom, some birthdays are “better”, etc. and already used to rolling with it.

This part is definitely true. How would it look for a club coach's recruiting effort if a kid who played other sports all winter won the high point award of his club swimmer?

And there you have it. Summer only parents don’t care at all

I'm highlighting a case where summer only parents do care, thank you. Coaches can and do seed meets to favor their club swimmers. In some cases that can mean the summer only swimmer who is a little better won't win the high point award thereby annoying the summer only parents who think club swimming is a pay for play racket.

I've never seen it in terms of high point awards, but it happens at our pool all the time with third lanes at A meets. If two kids are 4th and 5th on every stroke, it will just so happen that the strokes that the club swimmer sits above the non-club swimmer are the ones that the faster swimmers aren't swimming.

Same concept applies to kids further up the ladder when a coach wants one of them to score more points than the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Last year my summer bday kid was top in their age division and multiple people brought it up to my H and I. We thought it was really weird, all things have age cutoffs that impact kids differently. All the grade year cutoff sports make my kid the youngest on the team.

We assumed they’d be back swimming at B meets this year since they were at the bottom of the age bracket. That turned out not to be the case and they were top for the age group this year. No one mentioned their age to us. I have no doubt that next year or the following year a club swimmer will pass them and my kid understands that. They prefer other sports during the rest of the year.

I guess those of us with summer bday kids are more accustomed to age cutoff issues and that’s why summer swim age comes up year after year but not so much in other sports.

Summer bday kids are never really at the bottom of the age bracket. At worst, they are in the middle of the distribution for each two-year age group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year my summer bday kid was top in their age division and multiple people brought it up to my H and I. We thought it was really weird, all things have age cutoffs that impact kids differently. All the grade year cutoff sports make my kid the youngest on the team.

We assumed they’d be back swimming at B meets this year since they were at the bottom of the age bracket. That turned out not to be the case and they were top for the age group this year. No one mentioned their age to us. I have no doubt that next year or the following year a club swimmer will pass them and my kid understands that. They prefer other sports during the rest of the year.

I guess those of us with summer bday kids are more accustomed to age cutoff issues and that’s why summer swim age comes up year after year but not so much in other sports.

Summer bday kids are never really at the bottom of the age bracket. At worst, they are in the middle of the distribution for each two-year age group.

I know you are talking about summer swim, of course, but saying "summer bday kids are never really at the bottom of the age bracket" is hilarious to anyone who actually has a kid with a summer birthday. Unless you redshirt, they are literally ALWAYS at the bottom of the age bracket. Except in summer swim, assuming they have a July/August bday and not June.