Summer swim absurd age rules

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have a summer birthday boy and don’t redshirt, you’re silly. It’s not just about athletics either, it’s about sending a 17 year old boy off to college. No thank you. But that’s for a different forum and post.

Regardless, my summer birthday kid has an august bday. He his the age he swims at all season, not older. He’s just lucky. Moving the age cut off to august or September would mean he’d age up before he reached max age. That doesn’t happen with a June 1 cutoff, for anyone. That’s why the cut off is where it is. Very few kids are swimming “old” — only those with June and July bdays. Just get over it.

Some school districts do not permit redshirting. Some children are already reading by the time K starts or otherwise academically advanced in ways that make redshirting look like a bad idea. Redshirting a kid who is academically and socially ready for kindergarten because you don't like the idea of a kid being 17 for a week in college is weird.

But in any case, most parents don't redshirt and for those kids, summer swim (if they even do it) is likely the only time in their childhood where their birthday and age versus peers will offer them a competitive edge.

All things being equal a 18 going on 19 year old boy is going to be more mature and ready for college. And also better at college sports. I wholly advocate holding those kids back at K. Starting high school as a 13 year old boy really sucks too. Speaking from experience, as a child who had a late fall bday and was NOT held back. Again, it’s a debate for another forum but there are very good reasons to redshirt, ver few not to.

Glad to see that you “wholly advocate” redshirting. Thank goodness for the anonymous professors who think they know better than, say, teachers. Your kid may be 2 years older than mine, but he or she isn’t smarter. I wholly advocate better parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have a summer birthday boy and don’t redshirt, you’re silly. It’s not just about athletics either, it’s about sending a 17 year old boy off to college. No thank you. But that’s for a different forum and post.

Regardless, my summer birthday kid has an august bday. He his the age he swims at all season, not older. He’s just lucky. Moving the age cut off to august or September would mean he’d age up before he reached max age. That doesn’t happen with a June 1 cutoff, for anyone. That’s why the cut off is where it is. Very few kids are swimming “old” — only those with June and July bdays. Just get over it.

How would sending a summer bday kid on time to kindergarten equate to sending them to college at 17? I’m a summer bday and I entered college at 18. Yes, the kids who are born the past week of august will be 17 years 11 months and 3 weeks.

Where we live I rarely see kids redshirted. I can think of only one in my sons grade. Several August boys. I know of an October kid who tested in early as well. They all seem perfectly fine academically and socially.

Summer ends mid-September. Colleges start mid-to-late August. Plenty of 17 yr olds going off to college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have a summer birthday boy and don’t redshirt, you’re silly. It’s not just about athletics either, it’s about sending a 17 year old boy off to college. No thank you. But that’s for a different forum and post.

Regardless, my summer birthday kid has an august bday. He his the age he swims at all season, not older. He’s just lucky. Moving the age cut off to august or September would mean he’d age up before he reached max age. That doesn’t happen with a June 1 cutoff, for anyone. That’s why the cut off is where it is. Very few kids are swimming “old” — only those with June and July bdays. Just get over it.

Some school districts do not permit redshirting. Some children are already reading by the time K starts or otherwise academically advanced in ways that make redshirting look like a bad idea. Redshirting a kid who is academically and socially ready for kindergarten because you don't like the idea of a kid being 17 for a week in college is weird.

But in any case, most parents don't redshirt and for those kids, summer swim (if they even do it) is likely the only time in their childhood where their birthday and age versus peers will offer them a competitive edge.

All things being equal a 18 going on 19 year old boy is going to be more mature and ready for college. And also better at college sports. I wholly advocate holding those kids back at K. Starting high school as a 13 year old boy really sucks too. Speaking from experience, as a child who had a late fall bday and was NOT held back. Again, it’s a debate for another forum but there are very good reasons to redshirt, ver few not to.

Again, redshirting is not allowed in some districts. Also, you are hyper-fixated on boys and athletics, as though those are the main considerations for kids when starting school. You're being myopic.

I do think it's funny though that in a thread filled with people who are mad about the summer swim age cut offs as "unfair," we also have a person calling people "silly" for not redshirting their kids.

Apparently if you have a child with a summer birthday, you'r a bad parent for allowing them to follow the age rules of summer swim, but also a bad parent for not bending the age rules for school.

Don't get pregnant in September-December folks, if you can help it. It's super inconvenient for other people!

Actually, may through December because the red shirting is getting more and more absurd. It’s a race to see who can have the first 8 year old in kindergarten.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have a summer birthday boy and don’t redshirt, you’re silly. It’s not just about athletics either, it’s about sending a 17 year old boy off to college. No thank you. But that’s for a different forum and post.

Regardless, my summer birthday kid has an august bday. He his the age he swims at all season, not older. He’s just lucky. Moving the age cut off to august or September would mean he’d age up before he reached max age. That doesn’t happen with a June 1 cutoff, for anyone. That’s why the cut off is where it is. Very few kids are swimming “old” — only those with June and July bdays. Just get over it.

Some school districts do not permit redshirting. Some children are already reading by the time K starts or otherwise academically advanced in ways that make redshirting look like a bad idea. Redshirting a kid who is academically and socially ready for kindergarten because you don't like the idea of a kid being 17 for a week in college is weird.

But in any case, most parents don't redshirt and for those kids, summer swim (if they even do it) is likely the only time in their childhood where their birthday and age versus peers will offer them a competitive edge.

All things being equal a 18 going on 19 year old boy is going to be more mature and ready for college. And also better at college sports. I wholly advocate holding those kids back at K. Starting high school as a 13 year old boy really sucks too. Speaking from experience, as a child who had a late fall bday and was NOT held back. Again, it’s a debate for another forum but there are very good reasons to redshirt, ver few not to.

They aren’t more mature, they are older. They are less mature when you compare them by age and they did not get the opportunity for the maturity when they are with younger peers. Being 13 for a few weeks of he is no big deal over being 18 all of senior year and starting college at 19. You are doing that for your needs, not your child’s. If sports is everything to you it speaks volumes. I know several kids who missed the cut off and wished they were a grade ahead. They don’t look like they fit in to the younger grade and they are smart kids so academically they are behind their true peers.

Don’t take my word on it, the social science pretty much supports starting school at closer to six than 5, particularly for boys. Sorry you didn’t know that when you made your decision.

Oh goodness, what crap. Sorry you can’t understand social science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't see why having an August 1st cutoff date is a non starter? Wouldn't that solve this entire debate?

No it would just change the groups of kids advantaged and disadvantaged.

I heard the reason they put 6/1 as the cut off is so the kids would be the same age for the entire summer swim season. I don't think an 8/1 cut off would help fix that problem. 6/1 is the only one that works.

8/1 would work the same. Whatever age you would be on 8/1 is the age you swim for the whole season. So instead of kids with June/July birthdays swimming down to the age they were on June 1st, they would swim up to the age they will be on August 1st. It disadvantages the summer birthday kids though, instead of the current advantage they get.

Someone is always at a disadvantage. Just move on. They aren’t going to change it again. They tried it for a short time and it nobody liked it. You need to get over it.

Calm down summer birthday kid parent. I literally gave a straightforward response to the PP because it wasn’t accurate. I did not advocate for changing the cutoff, or insert my personal opinion. Perhaps you are the one that needs to consider getting over it since even factual posts bother you.

DP, my kid is a fall birthday and is always swimming against older kids. I have no issue with it. Nor does she. Helps her race and get better. She has also learned not to worry about the little things: So she races kids older than her - no big deal. Once she turns 15, she will always be racing against older kids for several years. Not all of us advocating for keeping the current system have kids who are beneficiaries.

I guess really winter birthday who ages up around Thanksgiving (lest someone say I have an August kid).

Are you really trying to say your November birthday kid has a disadvantage in summer swim? I can’t with you people. The kids who are truly disadvantaged by the cutoff are April/May birthdays. That’s it. Not being the oldest doesn’t mean your child is disadvantaged. That’s like trying to say a kid with a May birthday is disadvantaged in a sport that goes by birth year. Just because your kid is competing against some kids a bit older than them does not make it a disadvantage. The majority of kids are still younger than yours.

Nope, I wasn’t arguing my kid was disadvantaged but rather pointing out moving the age to 8/1 would help my kid too and I still don’t advocate for it. I was arguing against all the posters who assumed everyone in favor of letting summer swim be were parents whose kid benefited from the current system. That is not the case and we don’t care that amour kids are swimming against older kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Next year NVSL will use an age adjusted formula to determine all winners. Similar to how power points are calculated in club swim but with more fidelity (i.e., age to the month instead of year). Input data will be collected during Saturday A meets, scaled using age-adjustment weighting factors, recompiled and accessed in a virtual meet style event with the final official team results announced Tuesday evening. It might take longer but at least kids at the bottom of the age group will have a shot at pulling off those virtual wins on a level playing field. Waiting for the Tuesday evening results to post will be exhilarating.

We did that in the CSL last year, but everyone agreed it was too anticlimactic. Instead every Wednesday after the B meets, we draw ping pong balls lotto style (broadcast live on YouTube!) and that determines the age cutoff for that weeks A meet.

Now we did have some controversy since the draw for the third A meet was February 30, which was changed to February 28, but a few parents were adamant it should be March 2 (at least in non-leap years).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have a summer birthday boy and don’t redshirt, you’re silly. It’s not just about athletics either, it’s about sending a 17 year old boy off to college. No thank you. But that’s for a different forum and post.

Regardless, my summer birthday kid has an august bday. He his the age he swims at all season, not older. He’s just lucky. Moving the age cut off to august or September would mean he’d age up before he reached max age. That doesn’t happen with a June 1 cutoff, for anyone. That’s why the cut off is where it is. Very few kids are swimming “old” — only those with June and July bdays. Just get over it.

Some school districts do not permit redshirting. Some children are already reading by the time K starts or otherwise academically advanced in ways that make redshirting look like a bad idea. Redshirting a kid who is academically and socially ready for kindergarten because you don't like the idea of a kid being 17 for a week in college is weird.

But in any case, most parents don't redshirt and for those kids, summer swim (if they even do it) is likely the only time in their childhood where their birthday and age versus peers will offer them a competitive edge.

All things being equal a 18 going on 19 year old boy is going to be more mature and ready for college. And also better at college sports. I wholly advocate holding those kids back at K. Starting high school as a 13 year old boy really sucks too. Speaking from experience, as a child who had a late fall bday and was NOT held back. Again, it’s a debate for another forum but there are very good reasons to redshirt, ver few not to.

They aren’t more mature, they are older. They are less mature when you compare them by age and they did not get the opportunity for the maturity when they are with younger peers. Being 13 for a few weeks of he is no big deal over being 18 all of senior year and starting college at 19. You are doing that for your needs, not your child’s. If sports is everything to you it speaks volumes. I know several kids who missed the cut off and wished they were a grade ahead. They don’t look like they fit in to the younger grade and they are smart kids so academically they are behind their true peers.

Don’t take my word on it, the social science pretty much supports starting school at closer to six than 5, particularly for boys. Sorry you didn’t know that when you made your decision.

It depends on what study you look at but most of those studies are bias and lack a lot. I don’t need to take your word for it. I don’t see my kid being in a lower grade nor do they. They were fully reading by k and smart and did well with academics. Why hold back a child? You are not making them smarter, just older. You want it easier on you, which is the biggest reason.

[Anonymous]

We have 2 boys in our family with summer bdays less than a week apart. One went on time, the other waited a year. Both sets of parents made the correct call for their kid. Two very different kids who are both doing well academically and socially 5 years later.

Both kids have awesome summer swim bdays though!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have 2 boys in our family with summer bdays less than a week apart. One went on time, the other waited a year. Both sets of parents made the correct call for their kid. Two very different kids who are both doing well academically and socially 5 years later.

Both kids have awesome summer swim bdays though!

+1, this is the right attitude.

I also think it's hilarious to say that "everyone" should redshirt, because if you got your wish, you'd effectively just move the cut off to a different date. And then people whose kids had April/May birthdays would start wanting to redshirt because their kids would be the youngest, and then where does it end.

Which, to keep this on topic, is EXACTLY why the complaints about the summer swim age cut offs are ridiculous. Sure, you could change the date and then summer birthdays would no longer be advantages. But other kids would be, and people would complain about that. No matter what, there will be someone at the top of the age category and especially in the 8-9 and 10-11 groups, being among the oldest will likely be an advantage to matter what.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not many people really care who wins Divisionals or All Stars. This is not something your kid will put on a college or private school app. There has to be an age cutoff /rule that does not create nonsensical administrative burdens for these volunteer-run swim teams.

Ha! We had a parent with his panties in a bunch because his kid was not in the event he wanted for Divisionals so that his kid could try for all star time. His kid never made any all star times all season for any event. Not even close but still wanted to try one last time in Divisionals. Some parents really care too much. They need a real life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not many people really care who wins Divisionals or All Stars. This is not something your kid will put on a college or private school app. There has to be an age cutoff /rule that does not create nonsensical administrative burdens for these volunteer-run swim teams.

Ha! We had a parent with his panties in a bunch because his kid was not in the event he wanted for Divisionals so that his kid could try for all star time. His kid never made any all star times all season for any event. Not even close but still wanted to try one last time in Divisionals. Some parents really care too much. They need a real life.

That’s one parent out of how many?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have 2 boys in our family with summer bdays less than a week apart. One went on time, the other waited a year. Both sets of parents made the correct call for their kid. Two very different kids who are both doing well academically and socially 5 years later.

Both kids have awesome summer swim bdays though!

+1, this is the right attitude.

I also think it's hilarious to say that "everyone" should redshirt, because if you got your wish, you'd effectively just move the cut off to a different date. And then people whose kids had April/May birthdays would start wanting to redshirt because their kids would be the youngest, and then where does it end.

Which, to keep this on topic, is EXACTLY why the complaints about the summer swim age cut offs are ridiculous. Sure, you could change the date and then summer birthdays would no longer be advantages. But other kids would be, and people would complain about that. No matter what, there will be someone at the top of the age category and especially in the 8-9 and 10-11 groups, being among the oldest will likely be an advantage to matter what.

With the cutoff one year your kid will be older, one younger. No big deal. If they are that good and fast they will win. I have no idea what the cutoff is. Nor care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have 2 boys in our family with summer bdays less than a week apart. One went on time, the other waited a year. Both sets of parents made the correct call for their kid. Two very different kids who are both doing well academically and socially 5 years later.

Both kids have awesome summer swim bdays though!

How do you know the held back kid would not have been just fine in the proper grade. In summer swim the kids talk about ages and grades as well as classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have 2 boys in our family with summer bdays less than a week apart. One went on time, the other waited a year. Both sets of parents made the correct call for their kid. Two very different kids who are both doing well academically and socially 5 years later.

Both kids have awesome summer swim bdays though!

How do you know the held back kid would not have been just fine in the proper grade. In summer swim the kids talk about ages and grades as well as classes.

Because he was dealing with mild sensory processing disorder as well as being diagnosed with another mild disorder and the medical professionals thought he’d benefit from another year before starting K so those parents followed that advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have 2 boys in our family with summer bdays less than a week apart. One went on time, the other waited a year. Both sets of parents made the correct call for their kid. Two very different kids who are both doing well academically and socially 5 years later.

Both kids have awesome summer swim bdays though!

How do you know the held back kid would not have been just fine in the proper grade. In summer swim the kids talk about ages and grades as well as classes.

Because he was dealing with mild sensory processing disorder as well as being diagnosed with another mild disorder and the medical professionals thought he’d benefit from another year before starting K so those parents followed that advice.

My point is - no one outside the family knows what goes into making the decision to wait or send a kid. I guarantee you that you’d have no idea the boy dealt with any of those issues - they rarely surface now and he does not have a 504 or IEP.

FWIW, my own summer kids went on time to school and did just fine. I’m just not willing to judge others for choosing a different path.