Why are people more sympathetic to Lindsay Clancy than Andrea Yates? (Child death mentioned)

[Anonymous]

I say this with no judgement. Do you think her decision was spur of the moment. And if not, given the support she had in place, what kept her from telling someone that she had the urge to hurt her children or was having visions or whatever,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mental illness does not discriminate.

No it doesn’t. So we must also recognize that many of these mass shooters are indeed mentally ill to some extent. We mustn’t discriminate. They ended up dead or imprisoned for life. Remember that.

I don’t think “most” mass shooters are mentally ill. Yes there are some - the Sandy Hook shooter and the Virginia Tech shooter both come to mind. Definite serious mental illness there and clearly a lot of suffering. But others were impulsive or motivated by revenge or just had violent personalities. Not much different than your run of the mill violent criminals and gang members.

Serious PPD often comes with intrusive thoughts - she may have been, literally, “hearing voices.” And as a PP has mentioned it’s so hard to get mental health care plus people suffering from mental illness can downplay their symptoms or act normal in a way that a person suffering from cancer or heart disease really can’t.

How do you define "serious mental illness"? There are varying degrees of "serious mental illness."
Is a "violent personality" itself a mental illness? Why do you think a "run of the mill violent criminal" is not mentally ill?

Exactly. Is Brian Walshe mentally ill? Or just a giant selfish d-bag raised by crappy parents, who then murdered his wife? Where is the line?

It’s a very fine line, it’s actually quite a subjective line too which is terrifying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not have sympathy for her. She must have been acting normal or her husband wouldn’t have gone out for take out and left her alone with the kids. She had enough self control to act fine and wait until he left to then strangle her three children one by one, and at least one of them put up a big fight. This does not sound like an out of control psychotic break to me. It seems like premeditated murder after lying in wait. I also do not know how her husband is singing the praises of the person who strangled his children less than a week ago. On a go fund me to raise money for himself no less. There is more to this story.

You clearly don’t understand serious mental illness and psychosis.

Further, you don’t even understand basic language used by law enforcement and EMS personnel. There is no evidence that any of the small children ‘put up a big fight’. When a body is described as having obvious signs of trauma, that means trauma to the body - strangulation marks would qualify. It doesn’t take a lot of force for very long to render a young child unconscious by neck compression - it is unlikely that any of the children had much opportunity to defend themselves or put up a big fight.

In my experience and training as a former prosecutor this case seems a classic example of post partum psychosis. It is not inconsistent for a mind to be in the throes of psychotic distress and yet still capable of knowing that the objective of killing and suicide can only be achieved when the other adult has departed the house. If you fail to grasp this concept then all you are exhibiting is your ignorance about how truly serious mental illness and psychosis works. Good for you, honestly. I wish I had never had occasion to know these things. Many of us who do the work of law enforcement and mental health work wish we didn’t know these things. It must be nice to still be in the bubble of ignorance that tells you there is good and evil and black and white and nobody ever behaves in ways they don’t specifically intend. If only the real world was such a simple place. But it is not, and your ignorance renders your comments useless in this discussion.

Strangling a child much less 3 is not easily accomplished. Fighting for life is innate and toddlers will fight you in not life or death situations. Ever try to give a toddler who doesn't want medication some medicine? Ever try to give a shot to a toddler?

I'm sure it's easier for you to think those kids didn't suffer didn't feel any pain or fear and they essentially just went to sleep.
I'm sure it's easier for you to think she truly has no idea what she was doing.

But that's not reality

+1 I really do understand. The charges included assault. This wasn't mixing too much nyquil in the children's hot cocoa before bedtime and they didn't wake up, or putting a pillow over their faces while they were sound asleep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure I buy the mentally ill excuse.

Isn’t anyone who commits a horrific crime mentally ill? I don’t see how what she did is not any worse than a school shooter.

She seems evil to me and I wonder if there are other disturbing details about her that will surface

Exactly, mental illness doesn’t discriminate. Why do we empathize with Lindsay Clancy because she gave birth? Why? Because she is a white, cute-ish, instagram-ready, mommy millennial. This is just wrong on so many levels. We should equally empathize with mentally unstable/ill bullied school shooters, mentally unstable, desperate fathers who murder their children, people who are raised in the hood who commit murder, etc. For some reason, we don’t say these people are mentally ill, even though they very likely are suffering from some sort of mental illness, probably lifelong mental illness that makes PPD look like a cake walk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not have sympathy for her. She must have been acting normal or her husband wouldn’t have gone out for take out and left her alone with the kids. She had enough self control to act fine and wait until he left to then strangle her three children one by one, and at least one of them put up a big fight. This does not sound like an out of control psychotic break to me. It seems like premeditated murder after lying in wait. I also do not know how her husband is singing the praises of the person who strangled his children less than a week ago. On a go fund me to raise money for himself no less. There is more to this story.

Yes, there is.

You do not understand mental illness, apparently. You REALLY do not understand psychosis. You think a psychotic break happens all at once, in a splashy way that everyone can recognize for what it is? Sometimes, sure. I've worked with suicidal people for years, and they do not always look SAD, PP. They don't always look depressed. Sometimes when someone has made a decision to end their life, they look happy, calm, normal. They might look like a person who is totally capable of sitting on the couch watching TV while you step out to pick up takeout for half an hour. They don't always/often look like whatever kind of raving lunatic you think they're supposed to look like.

Deciding to end your own life in suicide is not really comparable to killing three kids. Who thinks that suicidal people are supposed to look like raving lunatics?

You are talking about the results of decisions. I am talking about the state of mind those decisions are being made in. You are assuming that this person was making conscious, intentional decisions with the understanding of the results those decisions would have.

What I am saying, as a person who has worked with people experiencing all different kinds of psychosis, including postpartum psychosis, is that they are not operating with the same reality-based instructions that you are. They are not in their right minds at all. Everything in your post assumes that this is a person who was intentionally doing the things she did, concealing her intentions from her husband. My point is that you have absolutely no idea what her experience of the psychosis was. She could have truly believed that she was saving her children. She could have truly believed that her husband was a threat. She could have truly believed she was being controlled by an external entity. That is what psychosis is. It's not a bad person waiting for a good person to go away so they can do bad stuff.

Reading this psych eval of Andrea Yates bright back so many memories of my own period of psychotic depression. https://murderpedia.org/female.Y/images/yates_andrea/report-dr-park-dietz.pdf It’s hard to explain to someone who’s never been through it. Your brain just believes crazy things. You “know” they’re true even if they are scary and unwanted and disturbing. Thankfully I got treatment and recovered. My heart breaks for people who do not get treated. I do not blame them. Psychosis is something that happens to you and you can’t fight it any more than you can fight a virus. It’s not something you do, it’s not “you” it’s something that invades you. Succumbing to psychosis is as tragic as being afflicted with cancer or any other disease. Please be compassionate and try to understand.

No. I cannot be compassionate to someone that murdered their children. Doesn’t matter the reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not have sympathy for her. She must have been acting normal or her husband wouldn’t have gone out for take out and left her alone with the kids. She had enough self control to act fine and wait until he left to then strangle her three children one by one, and at least one of them put up a big fight. This does not sound like an out of control psychotic break to me. It seems like premeditated murder after lying in wait. I also do not know how her husband is singing the praises of the person who strangled his children less than a week ago. On a go fund me to raise money for himself no less. There is more to this story.

It’s all very off, especially the comments from the husband.

It is like he is clinging to his facebook potrayal of life and writing off this as a momentary abberation in his picture perfect family.
Why even talk about her? About how they hugged every morning !?

His post is delusional, typical though for his age group. I question his mental clarity and health. His post, while well written, seems very phony.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not have sympathy for her. She must have been acting normal or her husband wouldn’t have gone out for take out and left her alone with the kids. She had enough self control to act fine and wait until he left to then strangle her three children one by one, and at least one of them put up a big fight. This does not sound like an out of control psychotic break to me. It seems like premeditated murder after lying in wait. I also do not know how her husband is singing the praises of the person who strangled his children less than a week ago. On a go fund me to raise money for himself no less. There is more to this story.

It’s all very off, especially the comments from the husband.

It is like he is clinging to his facebook potrayal of life and writing off this as a momentary abberation in his picture perfect family.
Why even talk about her? About how they hugged every morning !?

His post is delusional, typical though for his age group. I question his mental clarity and health. His post, while well written, seems very phony.

Um I wonder why? His children were brutally murdered. By his wife. Of course he doesn’t have mental clarity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not have sympathy for her. She must have been acting normal or her husband wouldn’t have gone out for take out and left her alone with the kids. She had enough self control to act fine and wait until he left to then strangle her three children one by one, and at least one of them put up a big fight. This does not sound like an out of control psychotic break to me. It seems like premeditated murder after lying in wait. I also do not know how her husband is singing the praises of the person who strangled his children less than a week ago. On a go fund me to raise money for himself no less. There is more to this story.

It’s all very off, especially the comments from the husband.

Which comments seem off?

I am struggling to believe that those are even the husband’s thoughts, I believe someone else concocted this bizarre, premature narrative. I cannot believe those are his actual words.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not have sympathy for her. She must have been acting normal or her husband wouldn’t have gone out for take out and left her alone with the kids. She had enough self control to act fine and wait until he left to then strangle her three children one by one, and at least one of them put up a big fight. This does not sound like an out of control psychotic break to me. It seems like premeditated murder after lying in wait. I also do not know how her husband is singing the praises of the person who strangled his children less than a week ago. On a go fund me to raise money for himself no less. There is more to this story.

It’s all very off, especially the comments from the husband.

It is like he is clinging to his facebook potrayal of life and writing off this as a momentary abberation in his picture perfect family.
Why even talk about her? About how they hugged every morning !?

His post is delusional, typical though for his age group. I question his mental clarity and health. His post, while well written, seems very phony.

Um I wonder why? His children were brutally murdered. By his wife. Of course he doesn’t have mental clarity.

It’s too early dude, too soon to be posting a sugar coated narrative of your prior life, the perfect life you all were supposedly living prior to your perfect wife committing one of the most, if not the most, atrocious filicides since we began keeping track.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not have sympathy for her. She must have been acting normal or her husband wouldn’t have gone out for take out and left her alone with the kids. She had enough self control to act fine and wait until he left to then strangle her three children one by one, and at least one of them put up a big fight. This does not sound like an out of control psychotic break to me. It seems like premeditated murder after lying in wait. I also do not know how her husband is singing the praises of the person who strangled his children less than a week ago. On a go fund me to raise money for himself no less. There is more to this story.

It’s all very off, especially the comments from the husband.

It is like he is clinging to his facebook potrayal of life and writing off this as a momentary abberation in his picture perfect family.
Why even talk about her? About how they hugged every morning !?

His post is delusional, typical though for his age group. I question his mental clarity and health. His post, while well written, seems very phony.

Um I wonder why? His children were brutally murdered. By his wife. Of course he doesn’t have mental clarity.

It’s too early dude, too soon to be posting a sugar coated narrative of your prior life, the perfect life you all were supposedly living prior to your perfect wife committing one of the most, if not the most, atrocious filicides since we began keeping track.

It doesn't really matter if it's too early or on time or too late. Whether he grieves the right way or the wrong way, or regrets this later or not. His children will still be gone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not have sympathy for her. She must have been acting normal or her husband wouldn’t have gone out for take out and left her alone with the kids. She had enough self control to act fine and wait until he left to then strangle her three children one by one, and at least one of them put up a big fight. This does not sound like an out of control psychotic break to me. It seems like premeditated murder after lying in wait. I also do not know how her husband is singing the praises of the person who strangled his children less than a week ago. On a go fund me to raise money for himself no less. There is more to this story.

It’s all very off, especially the comments from the husband.

It is like he is clinging to his facebook potrayal of life and writing off this as a momentary abberation in his picture perfect family.
Why even talk about her? About how they hugged every morning !?

His post is delusional, typical though for his age group. I question his mental clarity and health. His post, while well written, seems very phony.

Um I wonder why? His children were brutally murdered. By his wife. Of course he doesn’t have mental clarity.

It’s too early dude, too soon to be posting a sugar coated narrative of your prior life, the perfect life you all were supposedly living prior to your perfect wife committing one of the most, if not the most, atrocious filicides since we began keeping track.

He didn’t post it, right? I thought someone posted on his behalf? We’re just assuming he wrote that based on someone claiming he did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course his comments are 'off'.

He just had his family and life obliterated in the most traumatic 30 minutes of his life in an incomprehensible way by the woman he loved. Nothing makes sense and it must seem so unreal that this happened. He just had left sitting by his dying baby's bedside for 3 days. On top of that he has the world watching and talking about them all and likely a thousand other things to deal with.

None of it makes sense. I am sure his emotions and thoughts are a washing machine and a blur right now. It is amazing he was even able to sit and write a well articulated article to tell the world about this family and to ask them not to add more pain and hate to his plate right now.

What is an 'on' comment given the situation?

Well I think it’s off that he commented publicly at all. That’s all fine for a eulogy I guess, but weird to share with the world. And like you said he had just come from watching his last child die. That was the the first thing he wanted to do? Write a public statement?

I know people who know them. First: Please don't judge. Who's to say what's "weird" in this situation? There's not a handbook. The reason he "shared with the world," I surmise (he actually shared with a GoFundMe page), is because the media attention has been enormous but, more to the point, because he's received a massive outpouring of support on GoFundMe, and he acknowledged it. Perhaps writing what he did was therapeutic.

Again, I'm unclear as to why anyone feels equipped or entitled to judge his response.

How well did anyone actually know them though? How well? Why not tell it like it really was? I want the raw details. I don’t want to hear about his love at first site for her, how she is so loving etc. Tell us the truth, and if you can’t and must sugar coat it all, forget it. He is simply perpetuating the perfect instagram ready happy family facade. Wake up dude, wake the eff up.

[Anonymous]

It's ok for him to take the money. He will need to take time off work, hire lawyers, pay medical bills, pack up and sell his home, which won't be easy to sell now and pay for three burials. GoFundMe takes a cut of the donations.

[Anonymous]

I don’t have an issue with the money, ultimately he will come to the realization that marrying her was the worst mistake of his life and no amount of money will heal his lifelong wounds. He is young, so there may be time for him to start over again if he chooses. I believe there had to be previous signs, subtle maybe, but major red flags. He was too enamored to care I guess. They did post cute pictures on social media though, if only that was reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course his comments are 'off'.

He just had his family and life obliterated in the most traumatic 30 minutes of his life in an incomprehensible way by the woman he loved. Nothing makes sense and it must seem so unreal that this happened. He just had left sitting by his dying baby's bedside for 3 days. On top of that he has the world watching and talking about them all and likely a thousand other things to deal with.

None of it makes sense. I am sure his emotions and thoughts are a washing machine and a blur right now. It is amazing he was even able to sit and write a well articulated article to tell the world about this family and to ask them not to add more pain and hate to his plate right now.

What is an 'on' comment given the situation?

Well I think it’s off that he commented publicly at all. That’s all fine for a eulogy I guess, but weird to share with the world. And like you said he had just come from watching his last child die. That was the the first thing he wanted to do? Write a public statement?

I know people who know them. First: Please don't judge. Who's to say what's "weird" in this situation? There's not a handbook. The reason he "shared with the world," I surmise (he actually shared with a GoFundMe page), is because the media attention has been enormous but, more to the point, because he's received a massive outpouring of support on GoFundMe, and he acknowledged it. Perhaps writing what he did was therapeutic.

Again, I'm unclear as to why anyone feels equipped or entitled to judge his response.

I’m so tired of people being judgmental about people who judge. You judging me is no different than me judging him. We are all entitled to our opinion. You “knowing someone who knows him” doesn’t give you any more right to comment than anyone else.

The thing that's tiresome about judgers like you is that all of your judgment is predicated on the belief that you would NEVER do any of the things that Lindsay Clancy and Andrea Yates did and that you know exactly how you would react if your spouse did them. It's certainly possible that Lindsay Clancy is the depraved methodical killer that PPs are describing. But it's also possible that she was very sick at the time of the killings and was in no way psychologically able to understand her actions. That actually COULD happen to any of you postpartum, and postpartum care in this country is bad enough that no one would know how sick you were until it was too late.

If I murder my 3 children (one of which I can't actually conceive) I fully expect to be in jail for the rest of my life. My children didn't deserve that and insanity or not, I've given up my right to freedom. I destroyed at least 4 if not 5 lives.