Whoopi says the Holocaust was not about race

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, your German ancestors very likely had Germanic DNA. When groups of people invaded or migrated they assimilated with the local population and along with conversion came intermarriage.

https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html#:~:text=The%20origin%20of%20the%20Ashkenazi,may%20derive%20largely%20from%20Europe.

If my grandparents had Germanic DNA, so would I. Jews largely did not assimilate and intermarry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Straight up here. Not joking. I am very ignorant in this area. I was educated in the south, didn't know a Jewish person until I was 40 years old (now over 50) I thought Jews were conidered white. I had no reason to think otherwise. I mean of course I knew the horror of the holocaust, but I always thought it was PRIMARILY about religion and Hitler's goal to create a master race.

A master Aryan race with blonde hair and certain features which were opposite of traditional Jewish features.

Hitler wasn’t religious. The holocaust wasn’t a religious crusade.

Much like modern times, an evil person thirsty for power manipulated the masses by othering an easily identifiable minority group.

Again seriously asking…aside from Hitler’s goal, why are the Jewish features considered not white? Or rather is there something wrong with those features being put in the same box with white people? Do Jews not want to be in the same box as white people? I seriously don’t know and I have asked these questions before on DCUM and got shut down. I have googled a lot of this and gave up because it was indeed a rabbit hole that I couldn’t commit to.

I mean clearly most white people think it’s great to be white, and in most cases it it, and they (white people) absolutely, positively, would never ever want to be anything but white. I’m black, but would never, ever want to be white, but if I could PASS for white, to get the privilege that being white sometimes hands you….hmmm maybe.

So again, because I don’t personally know many people that have identified themselves to me as Jewish, I don’t really clearly identify Jewish features. I mean see Jewish celebrities on TV and have heard people talk about “Jew fro” but that’s it. I know I must sound terribly ignorant on this, but I also don’t think this mindset would be out of the ordinary for African Americans educated in the south in 70’s about Jewish people.

Nazis CAN identify Jews, or at least a great many of them. If you go on white supremacist websites, there are detailed descriptions and instructions on how to identify Jews based on certain facial features. I'm Jewish and can usually identify Jews as well. It is not a matter of frizzy hair and hooked noses; it can be far more subtle. "White" Jews also have a specific tone to their skin. When I was a child, the mean girls at school called me "green". Anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists refer to Jews as "reptilian" for a reason.

I can't speak for all "white" Jews, but no, I do not want to be white. I am white to most people, and I do benefit from white privilege. I do not want to be white simply because I am tired of being defined by others based on what will best justify their hatred. For a long time, people --not just Nazis-- saw Jews as non-white, and that was one of many ways they justified their Anti-Semitism. Now, people define Jews as white because whites are privileged oppressors. So when I fill out forms I usually tick off "other" and write in "Jewish".

Np Interesting thread but I don't think this is true, at least for people from my kind of background (non-white passing POC, usually described ambiguously as brown or mixed). Jewish people in the US are usually described as white because purely from a neutral point of observation the majority look indistinguishable from non-Jewish white people. It is not intended to malign Jewish people as "oppressors" it is just an observation of outward appearance. I would say the same thing of white-passing Hispanics too, with no intention of assigning them into "oppressed' or "oppressor'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Straight up here. Not joking. I am very ignorant in this area. I was educated in the south, didn't know a Jewish person until I was 40 years old (now over 50) I thought Jews were conidered white. I had no reason to think otherwise. I mean of course I knew the horror of the holocaust, but I always thought it was PRIMARILY about religion and Hitler's goal to create a master race.

A master Aryan race with blonde hair and certain features which were opposite of traditional Jewish features.

Hitler wasn’t religious. The holocaust wasn’t a religious crusade.

Much like modern times, an evil person thirsty for power manipulated the masses by othering an easily identifiable minority group.

Again seriously asking…aside from Hitler’s goal, why are the Jewish features considered not white? Or rather is there something wrong with those features being put in the same box with white people? Do Jews not want to be in the same box as white people? I seriously don’t know and I have asked these questions before on DCUM and got shut down. I have googled a lot of this and gave up because it was indeed a rabbit hole that I couldn’t commit to.

I mean clearly most white people think it’s great to be white, and in most cases it it, and they (white people) absolutely, positively, would never ever want to be anything but white. I’m black, but would never, ever want to be white, but if I could PASS for white, to get the privilege that being white sometimes hands you….hmmm maybe.

So again, because I don’t personally know many people that have identified themselves to me as Jewish, I don’t really clearly identify Jewish features. I mean see Jewish celebrities on TV and have heard people talk about “Jew fro” but that’s it. I know I must sound terribly ignorant on this, but I also don’t think this mindset would be out of the ordinary for African Americans educated in the south in 70’s about Jewish people.

Nazis CAN identify Jews, or at least a great many of them. If you go on white supremacist websites, there are detailed descriptions and instructions on how to identify Jews based on certain facial features. I'm Jewish and can usually identify Jews as well. It is not a matter of frizzy hair and hooked noses; it can be far more subtle. "White" Jews also have a specific tone to their skin. When I was a child, the mean girls at school called me "green". Anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists refer to Jews as "reptilian" for a reason.

I can't speak for all "white" Jews, but no, I do not want to be white. I am white to most people, and I do benefit from white privilege. I do not want to be white simply because I am tired of being defined by others based on what will best justify their hatred. For a long time, people --not just Nazis-- saw Jews as non-white, and that was one of many ways they justified their Anti-Semitism. Now, people define Jews as white because whites are privileged oppressors. So when I fill out forms I usually tick off "other" and write in "Jewish".

Np Interesting thread but I don't think this is true, at least for people from my kind of background (non-white passing POC, usually described ambiguously as brown or mixed). Jewish people in the US are usually described as white because purely from a neutral point of observation the majority look indistinguishable from non-Jewish white people. It is not intended to malign Jewish people as "oppressors" it is just an observation of outward appearance. I would say the same thing of white-passing Hispanics too, with no intention of assigning them into "oppressed' or "oppressor'.

Really. Then why is it that if you slide on over to a forum about Woody Allen or Sarah Jessica Parker, people who don't like them can't shut up about how Jewish they look? People are perfectly able to distinguish Jews with white skin from white people when they want to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Even Jews continue to argue about this among themselves.

For instance, my ex-MIL was Jewish. Therefore, most Jews would say my ex is Jewish. He, however, insists he is not Jewish. And there you have it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, your German ancestors very likely had Germanic DNA. When groups of people invaded or migrated they assimilated with the local population and along with conversion came intermarriage.

https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html#:~:text=The%20origin%20of%20the%20Ashkenazi,may%20derive%20largely%20from%20Europe.

There was relatively little intermarriage in the last 1000 years according to DNA. That makes sense historically, too since relations were generally bad. DNA suggests that the mixing between Levantines and Europeans happened closer to the Roman period, and Ashkenazi Jews' closest relatives among Europeans are actually present-day Italians. That makes sense historically, too, since Jews came to Europe as an (often enslaved) population conquered by the Romans.

So no, PP is actually not so likely to have had German ancestors, but very likely to have had some Roman ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Straight up here. Not joking. I am very ignorant in this area. I was educated in the south, didn't know a Jewish person until I was 40 years old (now over 50) I thought Jews were conidered white. I had no reason to think otherwise. I mean of course I knew the horror of the holocaust, but I always thought it was PRIMARILY about religion and Hitler's goal to create a master race.

A master Aryan race with blonde hair and certain features which were opposite of traditional Jewish features.

Hitler wasn’t religious. The holocaust wasn’t a religious crusade.

Much like modern times, an evil person thirsty for power manipulated the masses by othering an easily identifiable minority group.

Again seriously asking…aside from Hitler’s goal, why are the Jewish features considered not white? Or rather is there something wrong with those features being put in the same box with white people? Do Jews not want to be in the same box as white people? I seriously don’t know and I have asked these questions before on DCUM and got shut down. I have googled a lot of this and gave up because it was indeed a rabbit hole that I couldn’t commit to.

I mean clearly most white people think it’s great to be white, and in most cases it it, and they (white people) absolutely, positively, would never ever want to be anything but white. I’m black, but would never, ever want to be white, but if I could PASS for white, to get the privilege that being white sometimes hands you….hmmm maybe.

So again, because I don’t personally know many people that have identified themselves to me as Jewish, I don’t really clearly identify Jewish features. I mean see Jewish celebrities on TV and have heard people talk about “Jew fro” but that’s it. I know I must sound terribly ignorant on this, but I also don’t think this mindset would be out of the ordinary for African Americans educated in the south in 70’s about Jewish people.

Nazis CAN identify Jews, or at least a great many of them. If you go on white supremacist websites, there are detailed descriptions and instructions on how to identify Jews based on certain facial features. I'm Jewish and can usually identify Jews as well. It is not a matter of frizzy hair and hooked noses; it can be far more subtle. "White" Jews also have a specific tone to their skin. When I was a child, the mean girls at school called me "green". Anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists refer to Jews as "reptilian" for a reason.

I can't speak for all "white" Jews, but no, I do not want to be white. I am white to most people, and I do benefit from white privilege. I do not want to be white simply because I am tired of being defined by others based on what will best justify their hatred. For a long time, people --not just Nazis-- saw Jews as non-white, and that was one of many ways they justified their Anti-Semitism. Now, people define Jews as white because whites are privileged oppressors. So when I fill out forms I usually tick off "other" and write in "Jewish".

Np Interesting thread but I don't think this is true, at least for people from my kind of background (non-white passing POC, usually described ambiguously as brown or mixed). Jewish people in the US are usually described as white because purely from a neutral point of observation the majority look indistinguishable from non-Jewish white people. It is not intended to malign Jewish people as "oppressors" it is just an observation of outward appearance. I would say the same thing of white-passing Hispanics too, with no intention of assigning them into "oppressed' or "oppressor'.

Really. Then why is it that if you slide on over to a forum about Woody Allen or Sarah Jessica Parker, people who don't like them can't shut up about how Jewish they look? People are perfectly able to distinguish Jews with white skin from white people when they want to.

Because there are identifiable types of looks within the broad group of whites. People say so-and-so looks Italian, looks Russian, looks Scandinavian etc. Not all white people look alike. When someone says so-and-so looks Jewish, they aren't saying so-and-so isn't white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Straight up here. Not joking. I am very ignorant in this area. I was educated in the south, didn't know a Jewish person until I was 40 years old (now over 50) I thought Jews were conidered white. I had no reason to think otherwise. I mean of course I knew the horror of the holocaust, but I always thought it was PRIMARILY about religion and Hitler's goal to create a master race.

Jews who converted to Christianity were still murdered. It was not about religion.

Many were actually saved — by Polish Catholics, while risking their own lives.

This is true. But the opposite is also true. Polish Catholics as a group have a very mixed legacy of behavior toward Jews during (as well as before) the Holocaust. Both extremes were very well represented. People, individually and in groups, are complicated. It isn't something the present Polish government can handle, this complicated legacy, and I wonder if your repeated posts here suggest you are part of their ongoing sanitizing effort.

Either way, this is not so relevant to this thread.

Unless you mean to point out that Polish Catholics have never understood their Jewish neighbors as Poles, "white people" or no. That's kind of relevant.

Most of history has different perspectives, depending on which people you choose to believe. You seem to carry a chip on your shoulder. I am sorry if you do.

Wow. Flaming ignorance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I can't speak for all "white" Jews, but no, I do not want to be white. I am white to most people, and I do benefit from white privilege. I do not want to be white simply because I am tired of being defined by others based on what will best justify their hatred. For a long time, people --not just Nazis-- saw Jews as non-white, and that was one of many ways they justified their Anti-Semitism. Now, people define Jews as white because whites are privileged oppressors. So when I fill out forms I usually tick off "other" and write in "Jewish".

LOL honey welcome to the world of Arabs who Americans insist are white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It's up to you how you want to identify. I have a friend with a similar background to yours and she does not consider herself Jewish.
It certainly is confusing.

It actually isn't. If you want to identify as part of a certain community, that community must agree you're one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's up to you how you want to identify. I have a friend with a similar background to yours and she does not consider herself Jewish.
It certainly is confusing.

It actually isn't. If you want to identify as part of a certain community, that community must agree you're one of them.

That’s news to me. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Straight up here. Not joking. I am very ignorant in this area. I was educated in the south, didn't know a Jewish person until I was 40 years old (now over 50) I thought Jews were conidered white. I had no reason to think otherwise. I mean of course I knew the horror of the holocaust, but I always thought it was PRIMARILY about religion and Hitler's goal to create a master race.

A master Aryan race with blonde hair and certain features which were opposite of traditional Jewish features.

Hitler wasn’t religious. The holocaust wasn’t a religious crusade.

Much like modern times, an evil person thirsty for power manipulated the masses by othering an easily identifiable minority group.

Again seriously asking…aside from Hitler’s goal, why are the Jewish features considered not white? Or rather is there something wrong with those features being put in the same box with white people? Do Jews not want to be in the same box as white people? I seriously don’t know and I have asked these questions before on DCUM and got shut down. I have googled a lot of this and gave up because it was indeed a rabbit hole that I couldn’t commit to.

I mean clearly most white people think it’s great to be white, and in most cases it it, and they (white people) absolutely, positively, would never ever want to be anything but white. I’m black, but would never, ever want to be white, but if I could PASS for white, to get the privilege that being white sometimes hands you….hmmm maybe.

So again, because I don’t personally know many people that have identified themselves to me as Jewish, I don’t really clearly identify Jewish features. I mean see Jewish celebrities on TV and have heard people talk about “Jew fro” but that’s it. I know I must sound terribly ignorant on this, but I also don’t think this mindset would be out of the ordinary for African Americans educated in the south in 70’s about Jewish people.

Nazis CAN identify Jews, or at least a great many of them. If you go on white supremacist websites, there are detailed descriptions and instructions on how to identify Jews based on certain facial features. I'm Jewish and can usually identify Jews as well. It is not a matter of frizzy hair and hooked noses; it can be far more subtle. "White" Jews also have a specific tone to their skin. When I was a child, the mean girls at school called me "green". Anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists refer to Jews as "reptilian" for a reason.

I can't speak for all "white" Jews, but no, I do not want to be white. I am white to most people, and I do benefit from white privilege. I do not want to be white simply because I am tired of being defined by others based on what will best justify their hatred. For a long time, people --not just Nazis-- saw Jews as non-white, and that was one of many ways they justified their Anti-Semitism. Now, people define Jews as white because whites are privileged oppressors. So when I fill out forms I usually tick off "other" and write in "Jewish".

Np Interesting thread but I don't think this is true, at least for people from my kind of background (non-white passing POC, usually described ambiguously as brown or mixed). Jewish people in the US are usually described as white because purely from a neutral point of observation the majority look indistinguishable from non-Jewish white people. It is not intended to malign Jewish people as "oppressors" it is just an observation of outward appearance. I would say the same thing of white-passing Hispanics too, with no intention of assigning them into "oppressed' or "oppressor'.

Really. Then why is it that if you slide on over to a forum about Woody Allen or Sarah Jessica Parker, people who don't like them can't shut up about how Jewish they look? People are perfectly able to distinguish Jews with white skin from white people when they want to.

DP: Well, one possibility is that the people making these comments and distinctions are white, rather than POC, who may not make / see / or even have exposure to these distinctions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, your German ancestors very likely had Germanic DNA. When groups of people invaded or migrated they assimilated with the local population and along with conversion came intermarriage.

https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html#:~:text=The%20origin%20of%20the%20Ashkenazi,may%20derive%20largely%20from%20Europe.

If my grandparents had Germanic DNA, so would I. Jews largely did not assimilate and intermarry. [/quote

Did you even read the article?! Whoosh, right over your head.

[Anonymous]

Only partially.

Obviously it WAS horrible inhumanity at its worse > no one doubts that.

But the Germans viewed Jewish as a race overall…..I do not think it was significant to them whether a family practiced Hanukkah 🕎 or ate pork.

Their opinion was that the Jewish race was an inferior race that Europe should be “cleansed” of thoroughly.

[Anonymous]

It should be noted that homosexuals as well as disabled persons were also murdered.

Nazis were evil.

[Anonymous]

I like that the Morning Joe Gang has stood up for Whoopie decrying cancel culture - I am Jewish/liberal.