Growing share of childless adults in U.S. don’t expect to ever have children

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a college educated married immigrant woman who found it ridiculously hard to have a kid in US and also continue my job. It was a huge shock because US is worse than a 3rd world country regarding women's right and protections in the workplace.

Thankfully, my ILs and parents came in rotation for years and stayed on for months so that we were supported in the early childhood phase. Eventually, when we were in better financial health, I quit to become a SAHM. This was only possible because we worked hard to keep our costs down and DH and I have same goals, culture and a great marriage.

For our kids, we are paying all the cost of college, wedding etc, and they are very aware what kind of person they should marry and that they also should remain close to us in DMV so that we can provide childcare etc. I won't be surprised that eventually a multigenerational family structure may emerge as a way to have kids and for women to continue to be in the workforce.

Of course, all others issues remain - current and new pandemic, climate change, breakdown of law and order, prohibitive health care etc,

What does that mean? I'm genuinely curious. Only immigrant SAHMs allowed? Or only women who make high six-figures that can afford a nanny? By your wording it could go either way.

Yeah that's a super weird thing to say. Also just 10000% bonkers you think you can exercise that sort of domination over your kids' choice of partners or where they will live. Gd help their spouses, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I am starting to get it now that I have a child.
Not having kids is just protecting oneself from setbacks and disappointments (some would call it lazy and cowardly but who knows).
One can have an SN child and all that it entails.
Or a child that just isn’t quite the inspiration and pride of their parents.
One can get stuck in a bad marriage due to shared kids
People just avoid vulnerability
One may call it lazy or one might call it smart
I think it’s great to have a choice

I'm.pretty sure I just don't want kids. Why is this so difficult for some people to accept?
And before someone asks why I'm on a parenting board, I'm also a nanny and that's how I discovered this place

I haven’t come across a single good reason to bring another human life into this world.

You haven’t met enough of our young people. I see a lot of hope in their ideas and actions.

NP here, but lol ,NO. Absolutely not a good enough reason.

How about the fact that it makes YOU a better person, which in turn is good for society?

DP(NP?). It really doesn’t.

I'm deeply cynical because my first hob out of school was working at a courthouse and I saw family law cases. Plenty of parents are absolutely horrific human beings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fine by me. I’ve always wanted 4 kids, so if people want to have fewer to offset my strong drive to reproduce, it’s a win for us all.

YOu call it a strong drive to reproduce, I call it a breeding fetish.

That’s fine with me. I love having tons of kids around, love being pregnant, love the baby stage, love it all. Some people wanna spend their life traveling or on hobbies, I want to spend mine raising kids.

We have two biological kids and this is so weird to me. Pregnancy is so taxing on the body (so much prolapse after 3+ pregnancies) and the birthing itself is horrific. It takes so much effort, time, and $ to raise a child properly that I can't phantom having a litter of them. You are supposed to read at least 30 minutes to them every night before bedtime, so even if you had them back to back, which is unhealthy (again, prolapse), the kids will be at different literacy stages, so you'd basically have to spend 2 hours each night doing barely adequate reading. I can't see how anyone with limited resources can raise so many kids properly and give them the right start in life. It will always be a compromise - less personal attention, so and so school district, not a lot of quality food, not a lot of college $. Travel and being exposed to different things are crucial for a developing mind.
One of the PP wrote that large modern families are a sign of binary financial resources (wealth or poverty) and this person is right. I went to college with someone who is one of five and all of them grew up with several governesses, went to the best lower schools, and were shipped to Deerfield in 9th grade. They are all successful and well adjusted. It takes a TON of $ to raise five the right way.

This is true, but it's not just money. I am one of 4 and of me and my siblings 2 of us have kids and 2 of us have chosen not to have kids, the ones with kids have stopped at 2. The reasons are not wanting to be parents or it's impossible to adequately parent more than 2 kids and adequately means more than finances. Interestingly the 2 who have decided to have kids were favored by our parents and recieved the majority of their emotional resources.

But not financial. The 2 without kids didn't need the emotional support beyond what they were already getting.

Emotional support as children and yes all 3 od us needed it, but didn't get it. And seeing how flippiant your response was I suspect several of your children are emotionally neglected as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I am starting to get it now that I have a child.
Not having kids is just protecting oneself from setbacks and disappointments (some would call it lazy and cowardly but who knows).
One can have an SN child and all that it entails.
Or a child that just isn’t quite the inspiration and pride of their parents.
One can get stuck in a bad marriage due to shared kids
People just avoid vulnerability
One may call it lazy or one might call it smart
I think it’s great to have a choice

I'm.pretty sure I just don't want kids. Why is this so difficult for some people to accept?
And before someone asks why I'm on a parenting board, I'm also a nanny and that's how I discovered this place

I haven’t come across a single good reason to bring another human life into this world.

You haven’t met enough of our young people. I see a lot of hope in their ideas and actions.

NP here, but lol ,NO. Absolutely not a good enough reason.

How about the fact that it makes YOU a better person, which in turn is good for society?

LOL thats absolutely untrue! I always wonder about people who say stuff like this ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I am starting to get it now that I have a child.
Not having kids is just protecting oneself from setbacks and disappointments (some would call it lazy and cowardly but who knows).
One can have an SN child and all that it entails.
Or a child that just isn’t quite the inspiration and pride of their parents.
One can get stuck in a bad marriage due to shared kids
People just avoid vulnerability
One may call it lazy or one might call it smart
I think it’s great to have a choice

I'm.pretty sure I just don't want kids. Why is this so difficult for some people to accept?
And before someone asks why I'm on a parenting board, I'm also a nanny and that's how I discovered this place

I haven’t come across a single good reason to bring another human life into this world.

You haven’t met enough of our young people. I see a lot of hope in their ideas and actions.

NP here, but lol ,NO. Absolutely not a good enough reason.

How about the fact that it makes YOU a better person, which in turn is good for society?

LOL thats absolutely untrue! I always wonder about people who say stuff like this ?

They’re idiots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I am starting to get it now that I have a child.
Not having kids is just protecting oneself from setbacks and disappointments (some would call it lazy and cowardly but who knows).
One can have an SN child and all that it entails.
Or a child that just isn’t quite the inspiration and pride of their parents.
One can get stuck in a bad marriage due to shared kids
People just avoid vulnerability
One may call it lazy or one might call it smart
I think it’s great to have a choice

I'm.pretty sure I just don't want kids. Why is this so difficult for some people to accept?
And before someone asks why I'm on a parenting board, I'm also a nanny and that's how I discovered this place

I haven’t come across a single good reason to bring another human life into this world.

You haven’t met enough of our young people. I see a lot of hope in their ideas and actions.

NP here, but lol ,NO. Absolutely not a good enough reason.

How about the fact that it makes YOU a better person, which in turn is good for society?

If it makes you such a better person then why all the neglected/abused kids in foster care. I guess their so-called parents did not get the memo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fine by me. I’ve always wanted 4 kids, so if people want to have fewer to offset my strong drive to reproduce, it’s a win for us all.

YOu call it a strong drive to reproduce, I call it a breeding fetish.

That’s fine with me. I love having tons of kids around, love being pregnant, love the baby stage, love it all. Some people wanna spend their life traveling or on hobbies, I want to spend mine raising kids.

We have two biological kids and this is so weird to me. Pregnancy is so taxing on the body (so much prolapse after 3+ pregnancies) and the birthing itself is horrific. It takes so much effort, time, and $ to raise a child properly that I can't phantom having a litter of them. You are supposed to read at least 30 minutes to them every night before bedtime, so even if you had them back to back, which is unhealthy (again, prolapse), the kids will be at different literacy stages, so you'd basically have to spend 2 hours each night doing barely adequate reading. I can't see how anyone with limited resources can raise so many kids properly and give them the right start in life. It will always be a compromise - less personal attention, so and so school district, not a lot of quality food, not a lot of college $. Travel and being exposed to different things are crucial for a developing mind.
One of the PP wrote that large modern families are a sign of binary financial resources (wealth or poverty) and this person is right. I went to college with someone who is one of five and all of them grew up with several governesses, went to the best lower schools, and were shipped to Deerfield in 9th grade. They are all successful and well adjusted. It takes a TON of $ to raise five the right way.

PP. For sure there are compromises, but we’re not sending our kids to garbage schools and foraging for food in dumpsters. Kids go to a great charter school. We eat better quality food than most because I’m great at cooking and meal planning. I don’t spend 2 hours reading at night, we incorporate learning and reading throughout our day and into other activities. We’re not traveling to Europe anytime soon, but we all love camping and regularly travel to camp, which is cheap. Kids are all at the top of their class and are regularly in the 98-99th percentile on standardized tests. I volunteer 15+ hours a week at school so I can be with kids more and keep an eye on how they’re doing, and work 15 hours a week from home. H works a super flexible job with great work-life balance so he’s very involved. Pregnancy has been easy, I spent my first pregnancy reading everything I could on how to preserve your body and did tons of exercises to keep everything in working order. Now I just maintain those exercises and keep up strength training, and pregnancy is easy peasy. No prolapses or even leaking. These things were a priority for me so I did the work to make it happen. Three kids total with number 4 on the way Oh also, get rid of the screens. That made a huge difference. Guarantee my kids get more family and one-on-one time than the singleton kids I know who are on screens 3-4 hours a day because mom and dad are busy working.

And I’m not even the worst offender I know, lol. I know one family with 4 biological kids, 4 adopted kids, and at any given moment they are fostering 2-4 more. Mom is a SAHM, dad works a Fed job. Kids are all great and the family is pleasant to be around. Mom and dad even have time for dates and hobbies while still being highly involved with their kids.

There’s compromises with everything. I have a friend who has decided to prioritize travel and new experiences, so he takes overseas jobs in the Middle East that pay extremely well so he can blow $20-30k per vacation several times a year. He’d like a relationship but recognizes very few women want that lifestyle, so he’s at peace with being single. Or I have a friend who got divorced and decided to invest everything they had in their one child, so took a huge career hit, never got remarried or even dated, never had more children even though they wanted to. Or my sister, who decided not to have children so she could focus on a very challenging but rewarding career, and feel less stressed about money. You have to decide what is most valuable to you and make the necessary sacrifices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fine by me. I’ve always wanted 4 kids, so if people want to have fewer to offset my strong drive to reproduce, it’s a win for us all.

YOu call it a strong drive to reproduce, I call it a breeding fetish.

That’s fine with me. I love having tons of kids around, love being pregnant, love the baby stage, love it all. Some people wanna spend their life traveling or on hobbies, I want to spend mine raising kids.

We have two biological kids and this is so weird to me. Pregnancy is so taxing on the body (so much prolapse after 3+ pregnancies) and the birthing itself is horrific. It takes so much effort, time, and $ to raise a child properly that I can't phantom having a litter of them. You are supposed to read at least 30 minutes to them every night before bedtime, so even if you had them back to back, which is unhealthy (again, prolapse), the kids will be at different literacy stages, so you'd basically have to spend 2 hours each night doing barely adequate reading. I can't see how anyone with limited resources can raise so many kids properly and give them the right start in life. It will always be a compromise - less personal attention, so and so school district, not a lot of quality food, not a lot of college $. Travel and being exposed to different things are crucial for a developing mind.
One of the PP wrote that large modern families are a sign of binary financial resources (wealth or poverty) and this person is right. I went to college with someone who is one of five and all of them grew up with several governesses, went to the best lower schools, and were shipped to Deerfield in 9th grade. They are all successful and well adjusted. It takes a TON of $ to raise five the right way.

PP. For sure there are compromises, but we’re not sending our kids to garbage schools and foraging for food in dumpsters. Kids go to a great charter school. We eat better quality food than most because I’m great at cooking and meal planning. I don’t spend 2 hours reading at night, we incorporate learning and reading throughout our day and into other activities. We’re not traveling to Europe anytime soon, but we all love camping and regularly travel to camp, which is cheap. Kids are all at the top of their class and are regularly in the 98-99th percentile on standardized tests. I volunteer 15+ hours a week at school so I can be with kids more and keep an eye on how they’re doing, and work 15 hours a week from home. H works a super flexible job with great work-life balance so he’s very involved. Pregnancy has been easy, I spent my first pregnancy reading everything I could on how to preserve your body and did tons of exercises to keep everything in working order. Now I just maintain those exercises and keep up strength training, and pregnancy is easy peasy. No prolapses or even leaking. These things were a priority for me so I did the work to make it happen. Three kids total with number 4 on the way Oh also, get rid of the screens. That made a huge difference. Guarantee my kids get more family and one-on-one time than the singleton kids I know who are on screens 3-4 hours a day because mom and dad are busy working.

And I’m not even the worst offender I know, lol. I know one family with 4 biological kids, 4 adopted kids, and at any given moment they are fostering 2-4 more. Mom is a SAHM, dad works a Fed job. Kids are all great and the family is pleasant to be around. Mom and dad even have time for dates and hobbies while still being highly involved with their kids.

There’s compromises with everything. I have a friend who has decided to prioritize travel and new experiences, so he takes overseas jobs in the Middle East that pay extremely well so he can blow $20-30k per vacation several times a year. He’d like a relationship but recognizes very few women want that lifestyle, so he’s at peace with being single. Or I have a friend who got divorced and decided to invest everything they had in their one child, so took a huge career hit, never got remarried or even dated, never had more children even though they wanted to. Or my sister, who decided not to have children so she could focus on a very challenging but rewarding career, and feel less stressed about money. You have to decide what is most valuable to you and make the necessary sacrifices.

Oh, yours are small. Mine are older (one in med school) and the time and financial resources needed increase exponentially after a certain age, especially if they are into sports. We had summer weekends in which we asked the grandparents to help us with the sports, as both played travel. We had months with tutoring costs almost as high as our mortgage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I am starting to get it now that I have a child.
Not having kids is just protecting oneself from setbacks and disappointments (some would call it lazy and cowardly but who knows).
One can have an SN child and all that it entails.
Or a child that just isn’t quite the inspiration and pride of their parents.
One can get stuck in a bad marriage due to shared kids
People just avoid vulnerability
One may call it lazy or one might call it smart
I think it’s great to have a choice

I'm.pretty sure I just don't want kids. Why is this so difficult for some people to accept?
And before someone asks why I'm on a parenting board, I'm also a nanny and that's how I discovered this place

I haven’t come across a single good reason to bring another human life into this world.

You haven’t met enough of our young people. I see a lot of hope in their ideas and actions.

NP here, but lol ,NO. Absolutely not a good enough reason.

How about the fact that it makes YOU a better person, which in turn is good for society?

DP(NP?). It really doesn’t.

I'm deeply cynical because my first hob out of school was working at a courthouse and I saw family law cases. Plenty of parents are absolutely horrific human beings.

Yep, my SIL is a pediatric ER trauma doctor and she sees true hell. Some people should not be parents at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fine by me. I’ve always wanted 4 kids, so if people want to have fewer to offset my strong drive to reproduce, it’s a win for us all.

YOu call it a strong drive to reproduce, I call it a breeding fetish.

That’s fine with me. I love having tons of kids around, love being pregnant, love the baby stage, love it all. Some people wanna spend their life traveling or on hobbies, I want to spend mine raising kids.

Consider being a surrogate if you love being pregnant and help others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a college educated married immigrant woman who found it ridiculously hard to have a kid in US and also continue my job. It was a huge shock because US is worse than a 3rd world country regarding women's right and protections in the workplace.

Thankfully, my ILs and parents came in rotation for years and stayed on for months so that we were supported in the early childhood phase. Eventually, when we were in better financial health, I quit to become a SAHM. This was only possible because we worked hard to keep our costs down and DH and I have same goals, culture and a great marriage.

For our kids, we are paying all the cost of college, wedding etc, and they are very aware what kind of person they should marry and that they also should remain close to us in DMV so that we can provide childcare etc. I won't be surprised that eventually a multigenerational family structure may emerge as a way to have kids and for women to continue to be in the workforce.

Of course, all others issues remain - current and new pandemic, climate change, breakdown of law and order, prohibitive health care etc,

What does that mean? I'm genuinely curious. Only immigrant SAHMs allowed? Or only women who make high six-figures that can afford a nanny? By your wording it could go either way.

Oh, let me clarify. I have told my DDs to not hold their breath that things will become better for women in the workplace. We are supporting them fully to be super qualified and well educated, but they also need to marry men who will understand that working moms need a lot of support so that they can continue to work. They cannot marry a self-absorbed man-child or have children in a dysfunctional family. The couple need to support each other and take the help of family and other service providers to make sure that they can raise the kids properly. They cannot expect that corporate America will not be exploitative and unfair to women and families. This is the direction that America will continue to go because women are second class citizens here. Democracy is pretty worthless in this country and it is certainly not a benevolent country.

It is quite pathetic that women left the workplace in droves during the pandemic because of childcare issues. Yes, there are many solutions that women use when they become mothers -- earn a 6 figure salary, take help from their parents, outsource childcare, be a SAHM, have a collaborative marriage etc or a combination of all of these...but, they cannot expect any guaranteed maternity benefits from their US employers like people in Canada get. Isn't that a shame??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fine by me. I’ve always wanted 4 kids, so if people want to have fewer to offset my strong drive to reproduce, it’s a win for us all.

YOu call it a strong drive to reproduce, I call it a breeding fetish.

That’s fine with me. I love having tons of kids around, love being pregnant, love the baby stage, love it all. Some people wanna spend their life traveling or on hobbies, I want to spend mine raising kids.

We have two biological kids and this is so weird to me. Pregnancy is so taxing on the body (so much prolapse after 3+ pregnancies) and the birthing itself is horrific. It takes so much effort, time, and $ to raise a child properly that I can't phantom having a litter of them. You are supposed to read at least 30 minutes to them every night before bedtime, so even if you had them back to back, which is unhealthy (again, prolapse), the kids will be at different literacy stages, so you'd basically have to spend 2 hours each night doing barely adequate reading. I can't see how anyone with limited resources can raise so many kids properly and give them the right start in life. It will always be a compromise - less personal attention, so and so school district, not a lot of quality food, not a lot of college $. Travel and being exposed to different things are crucial for a developing mind.
One of the PP wrote that large modern families are a sign of binary financial resources (wealth or poverty) and this person is right. I went to college with someone who is one of five and all of them grew up with several governesses, went to the best lower schools, and were shipped to Deerfield in 9th grade. They are all successful and well adjusted. It takes a TON of $ to raise five the right way.

PP. For sure there are compromises, but we’re not sending our kids to garbage schools and foraging for food in dumpsters. Kids go to a great charter school. We eat better quality food than most because I’m great at cooking and meal planning. I don’t spend 2 hours reading at night, we incorporate learning and reading throughout our day and into other activities. We’re not traveling to Europe anytime soon, but we all love camping and regularly travel to camp, which is cheap. Kids are all at the top of their class and are regularly in the 98-99th percentile on standardized tests. I volunteer 15+ hours a week at school so I can be with kids more and keep an eye on how they’re doing, and work 15 hours a week from home. H works a super flexible job with great work-life balance so he’s very involved. Pregnancy has been easy, I spent my first pregnancy reading everything I could on how to preserve your body and did tons of exercises to keep everything in working order. Now I just maintain those exercises and keep up strength training, and pregnancy is easy peasy. No prolapses or even leaking. These things were a priority for me so I did the work to make it happen. Three kids total with number 4 on the way Oh also, get rid of the screens. That made a huge difference. Guarantee my kids get more family and one-on-one time than the singleton kids I know who are on screens 3-4 hours a day because mom and dad are busy working.

And I’m not even the worst offender I know, lol. I know one family with 4 biological kids, 4 adopted kids, and at any given moment they are fostering 2-4 more. Mom is a SAHM, dad works a Fed job. Kids are all great and the family is pleasant to be around. Mom and dad even have time for dates and hobbies while still being highly involved with their kids.

There’s compromises with everything. I have a friend who has decided to prioritize travel and new experiences, so he takes overseas jobs in the Middle East that pay extremely well so he can blow $20-30k per vacation several times a year. He’d like a relationship but recognizes very few women want that lifestyle, so he’s at peace with being single. Or I have a friend who got divorced and decided to invest everything they had in their one child, so took a huge career hit, never got remarried or even dated, never had more children even though they wanted to. Or my sister, who decided not to have children so she could focus on a very challenging but rewarding career, and feel less stressed about money. You have to decide what is most valuable to you and make the necessary sacrifices.

Oh, yours are small. Mine are older (one in med school) and the time and financial resources needed increase exponentially after a certain age, especially if they are into sports. We had summer weekends in which we asked the grandparents to help us with the sports, as both played travel. We had months with tutoring costs almost as high as our mortgage.

Likely won't be a problem for us. We tend to be fairly strict on the amount of time put into organized sports because we want to prioritize family. And spending that much money on tutors is just insane. I had straight A's all through high school and college and near-perfect SAT and GRE scores, and my sibling is a physician. We never used tutors. No one I know uses tutors to that extent, usually it's just if a kid is struggling in one or two classes. But if you're paying a second mortgage just to get your child into med school, being a physician probably isn't the right choice for them. None of the physicians I know needed that much help.

[Anonymous]

I think it will be a good thing. We don't need more humans. Also, did Trump ever finish the wall?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pets have become the new children and fill a gap for many people. I've seen more prescription drug advertisements for pets then ever this year. Clearly people are caring for them and willing to spend money on them like they are children. But unlike children you don't have to worry about daycare or college tuition.

Or heirs or anyone being at your bedside while you die of cancer or old age. Dream big.

Nobody will be with you when you are passing away. Americans are terrified of death. If you are in the US, there is a high probability that you will be surrounded by strangers, heavily medicated, after years of dementia and tube feeding.

My father had all of us at his bedside. But you're free to say whatever helps you cope with your loneliness and the fact you're a genetic dead-end who will never understand what it's like to give birth and be a parent and watch children and grandchildren grow.

And you just keep telling yourself that choosing to have kids makes you a superior person. Your genes aren’t special enough to neeeeeed to be passed on. “Genetic dead end.” ROFL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I am starting to get it now that I have a child.
Not having kids is just protecting oneself from setbacks and disappointments (some would call it lazy and cowardly but who knows).
One can have an SN child and all that it entails.
Or a child that just isn’t quite the inspiration and pride of their parents.
One can get stuck in a bad marriage due to shared kids
People just avoid vulnerability
One may call it lazy or one might call it smart
I think it’s great to have a choice

I'm.pretty sure I just don't want kids. Why is this so difficult for some people to accept?
And before someone asks why I'm on a parenting board, I'm also a nanny and that's how I discovered this place

I haven’t come across a single good reason to bring another human life into this world.

You haven’t met enough of our young people. I see a lot of hope in their ideas and actions.

NP here, but lol ,NO. Absolutely not a good enough reason.

How about the fact that it makes YOU a better person, which in turn is good for society?

Well, it doesn’t, so that’s not a “fact.”