Banneker versus School Without Walls

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:21 pages of opinions and mostly all from folks with no student at Banneker. Interesting.

Some Grad student has a great thesis in waiting..fascinating...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to volunteer at Banneker and I was blown away by the students. They were such amazing, hard working and intelligent kid. They were respectful and very motivated to serve in their community.

It's depressing that every time the school is mentioned on DCUM you see parents doing Olympics level mental gymnastics to defend why they don't want to send their children to a school. Just admit that you where their child would be an ethnic minority. There have been studies that white families have need at least 30 % of white students where they will feel comfortable sending their children to an ethnically mixed school.

+1 This is the truth and the rest are just excuses. It's difficult being a minority as kid-bullying can be brutal. I've known a few recent grads and they all say "over prepared for college". They have attended Top 10 Unis, HBCUs, etc. The most important thing is that they are graduating and doing well. No school is perfect and maybe Banneker needs to focus some on standardized testing. Unless your kid is there, you really don't know. It may not even impact your child. You really have to ask the administration what type of prep is provided. Even private school parents complain about the test scores and schools not doing enough.....

Actually, we really know, since Banneker's average SAT scores are awful for a magnet program. I'm not buying that lack of focus on standardized testing is the crux of the problem, not when the SAT trips up few HS upperclassmen who excel at reading and math. The math tested is nothing more than algebra I, II, geometry, which have become MS subjects in the last 20 years for the strongest college-bound math students. Familiarizing students with the test format is useful, but doesn't take very long.

So who is "we"...So "we" has access to multiple kids enrolled presently? Who can even verify the scores presented are actually accurate? DCPS is notorious for bad data...Could be an uproar for nothing and if it doesn't impact your kid, why even waste all the energy...Weird...

So this poster is saying that the low SAT scores by Banneker students are not accurate because DCPS is notorious for bad data??

First, Banneker boosters defend the SAT by saying it’s racist, then they defend it by linking some studies that are really flawed, now we have well the data might not be accurate. It’s amazing how these people twist themselves with their defense.

The answer is pretty simple. Bannekers SAT scores in verbal are average and math below average. See link below. For a test in school or magnet equivalent, their SAT scores are dismal and likely at the bottom of the heap. Their AP scores are mediocre.

https://www.number2.com/average-sat-score/

Why is this important the poster above says if your kid is not at the school? It’s important because parents choose not to send their high performing kid to a school with subpar scores on top of offering little extracurriculars and clubs.

But lots of Banneker boosters will play the race card why UMC parents don’t send their kids there. That’s why it’s important.

[Anonymous]

THIS. Highlighting the crappy standardized test scores seems important to me mainly because they're not improving. Walls scores are improving, the trend is upward there. I've been paying attention to SAT scores, AP scores and National Merit Scholarship semifinalists numbers at both schools for 5 or 6 years now, with an eye on both programs as HS options for my eldest.

[Anonymous]

Also only 5% of their students get the IB diploma and their scores are pretty low. I’m interested in this and comparing it to DCI. Banneker has been around for so much longer than DCI who just graduated their 2nd class. DCI has already surpassed Banneker in IB diploma scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:THIS. Highlighting the crappy standardized test scores seems important to me mainly because they're not improving. Walls scores are improving, the trend is upward there. I've been paying attention to SAT scores, AP scores and National Merit Scholarship semifinalists numbers at both schools for 5 or 6 years now, with an eye on both programs as HS options for my eldest.

That's understandable....If the test scores are the most important thing to you, you can always supplement and prepare. That's what the private school kids do regardless of what they say. I've seen it first hand. We'll do that regardless to ensure success....Both Banneker and Walls seem to have some extremely high performers and some that may not test well.That's the norm for all schools including magnets.

Very difficult to supplement study skills, priorization, etc. Those skills are what get you thru undergrad and grad school. Banneker as well as Walls seem to excel at that and they are getting kids admitted to Ivies and finishing. That's the most important thing....graduating! If you burn out and don't finish, the rest is irrelevant...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also only 5% of their students get the IB diploma and their scores are pretty low. I’m interested in this and comparing it to DCI. Banneker has been around for so much longer than DCI who just graduated their 2nd class. DCI has already surpassed Banneker in IB diploma scores.

This was discussed already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also only 5% of their students get the IB diploma and their scores are pretty low. I’m interested in this and comparing it to DCI. Banneker has been around for so much longer than DCI who just graduated their 2nd class. DCI has already surpassed Banneker in IB diploma scores.

This was discussed already.

Oh come on, if Banneker wanted to expand their IB diploma, DCPS would do it. It’s their favorite darling. The reality is if kids do not have the bandwidth and knowledge content to even score average on the SAT, no way are they going to get the IB diploma. It’s a diploma that is graded by a 3rd party so there is no grade inflation. If you don’t know the material, you get the grade you deserve. That is why the average IB diploma score for the few students who get it are low.

Getting the IB diploma is much more difficult than just taking AP courses and getting at best a 3. It also is writing intensive requiring an extended essay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also only 5% of their students get the IB diploma and their scores are pretty low. I’m interested in this and comparing it to DCI. Banneker has been around for so much longer than DCI who just graduated their 2nd class. DCI has already surpassed Banneker in IB diploma scores.

This was discussed already.

Oh come on, if Banneker wanted to expand their IB diploma, DCPS would do it. It’s their favorite darling. The reality is if kids do not have the bandwidth and knowledge content to even score average on the SAT, no way are they going to get the IB diploma. It’s a diploma that is graded by a 3rd party so there is no grade inflation. If you don’t know the material, you get the grade you deserve. That is why the average IB diploma score for the few students who get it are low.

Getting the IB diploma is much more difficult than just taking AP courses and getting at best a 3. It also is writing intensive requiring an extended essay.

Having done the IB diploma myself abroad, please do not forget to mention the language requirement. You cannot get the diploma if you do not have a second language that you take at either the sub or higher level. The sub level still requires years of language prior to starting the IB diploma years. I took French as my second language and took it as a sub after having taken French for pretty much all of my childhood as a second language (minus a few years here and there). DCI students will obviously have the second language in much greater numbers than Banneker students.

[Anonymous]

Where are folks getting the SAT data for any of these schools ? On the dc report card it does not state the school's score but rather the Percentage of students who meet or exceed the College and Career Ready Benchmark on the SAT, which is set by the College Board. That score is 480 in Evidence-Based Reading and Writing and 530 in Math.

https://www.dcschoolreportcard.org/schools/1-0466/college-career-readiness

This is the number set by the college board. The exact same phrase is found on the page for each dcps high-school. Walls and banneker alike. Please tell me I'm missing this and someone actually posted the actual scores for each school. If so please repost the link. I've read this entire thread but can't find which page the discussion of score started on.

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also only 5% of their students get the IB diploma and their scores are pretty low. I’m interested in this and comparing it to DCI. Banneker has been around for so much longer than DCI who just graduated their 2nd class. DCI has already surpassed Banneker in IB diploma scores.

This was discussed already.

Oh come on, if Banneker wanted to expand their IB diploma, DCPS would do it. It’s their favorite darling. The reality is if kids do not have the bandwidth and knowledge content to even score average on the SAT, no way are they going to get the IB diploma. It’s a diploma that is graded by a 3rd party so there is no grade inflation. If you don’t know the material, you get the grade you deserve. That is why the average IB diploma score for the few students who get it are low.

Getting the IB diploma is much more difficult than just taking AP courses and getting at best a 3. It also is writing intensive requiring an extended essay.

This was discussed already. Not everyone wants an IB program! Many people think it is some liberal multicultural program that promotes socialism. Others are very happy with AP. Also are you living under a rock? Because currently there is a massive exodus of teachers from teaching. They’re tired of low pay and BS from parents. Our society is going through a massive employment shift right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:THIS. Highlighting the crappy standardized test scores seems important to me mainly because they're not improving. Walls scores are improving, the trend is upward there. I've been paying attention to SAT scores, AP scores and National Merit Scholarship semifinalists numbers at both schools for 5 or 6 years now, with an eye on both programs as HS options for my eldest.

That's understandable....If the test scores are the most important thing to you, you can always supplement and prepare. That's what the private school kids do regardless of what they say. I've seen it first hand. We'll do that regardless to ensure success....Both Banneker and Walls seem to have some extremely high performers and some that may not test well.That's the norm for all schools including magnets.

Very difficult to supplement study skills, priorization, etc. Those skills are what get you thru undergrad and grad school. Banneker as well as Walls seem to excel at that and they are getting kids admitted to Ivies and finishing. That's the most important thing....graduating! If you burn out and don't finish, the rest is irrelevant...

PP, you're whitewashing a serious problem, just like DCPS does. The problem is simple: most students at an elite magnet test-in school can't scrape SAT math scores above the 400s or low 500s, or APs above 3 either. For the most part, it's not that the kids "don't test well" (euphemism), it's that they can't do college-bound HS math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to volunteer at Banneker and I was blown away by the students. They were such amazing, hard working and intelligent kid. They were respectful and very motivated to serve in their community.

It's depressing that every time the school is mentioned on DCUM you see parents doing Olympics level mental gymnastics to defend why they don't want to send their children to a school. Just admit that you where their child would be an ethnic minority. There have been studies that white families have need at least 30 % of white students where they will feel comfortable sending their children to an ethnically mixed school.

I think most people are arguing that it's not academically rigorous and appeals to lower performing (but academically inclined) minority students as an academic school because DCPS is pretty crappy overall.

+1 People are also arguing, I think fairly, that the outcomes are not what you would expect for the Jewel of DCPS.

I agree that white people can be twitchy about Black majority schools, and particularly schools that are majority ADOS rather than majority immigrant. However, in this specific case, you aren't seeing the kind of results that you would expect from a test-in, criteria-based, magnet program that lasts four years.

Basically, I think Banneker might be very good at identifying bright and academically motivated kids (mostly girls) and moving them safely through high school and onward to college. It does that by bringing them up to basically the US median in terms of test scores (AP and SAT). That's a success, if you use the right lens.

But for a MC/UMC Black family, or a white family whose kids are already at the baseline, it's not clear that Banneker is going to provide rigor to move kids above the baseline. That's the question that all of this fighting about the roots of the SAT are obfuscating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I used to volunteer at Banneker and I was blown away by the students. They were such amazing, hard working and intelligent kid. They were respectful and very motivated to serve in their community.

It's depressing that every time the school is mentioned on DCUM you see parents doing Olympics level mental gymnastics to defend why they don't want to send their children to a school. Just admit that you where their child would be an ethnic minority. There have been studies that white families have need at least 30 % of white students where they will feel comfortable sending their children to an ethnically mixed school.

I think most people are arguing that it's not academically rigorous and appeals to lower performing (but academically inclined) minority students as an academic school because DCPS is pretty crappy overall.

+1 People are also arguing, I think fairly, that the outcomes are not what you would expect for the Jewel of DCPS.

I agree that white people can be twitchy about Black majority schools, and particularly schools that are majority ADOS rather than majority immigrant. However, in this specific case, you aren't seeing the kind of results that you would expect from a test-in, criteria-based, magnet program that lasts four years.

Basically, I think Banneker might be very good at identifying bright and academically motivated kids (mostly girls) and moving them safely through high school and onward to college. It does that by bringing them up to basically the US median in terms of test scores (AP and SAT). That's a success, if you use the right lens.

But for a MC/UMC Black family, or a white family whose kids are already at the baseline, it's not clear that Banneker is going to provide rigor to move kids above the baseline. That's the question that all of this fighting about the roots of the SAT are obfuscating.

It does but DCUM is not interested in hearing from Banneker parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where are folks getting the SAT data for any of these schools ? On the dc report card it does not state the school's score but rather the Percentage of students who meet or exceed the College and Career Ready Benchmark on the SAT, which is set by the College Board. That score is 480 in Evidence-Based Reading and Writing and 530 in Math.

https://www.dcschoolreportcard.org/schools/1-0466/college-career-readiness

This is the number set by the college board. The exact same phrase is found on the page for each dcps high-school. Walls and banneker alike. Please tell me I'm missing this and someone actually posted the actual scores for each school. If so please repost the link. I've read this entire thread but can't find which page the discussion of score started on.

Thanks!

For Banneker..here is pretty much everything you want to know....https://www.benjaminbanneker.org/ourpages/auto/2015/3/22/49894145/Banneker%20School%20Profile%2021-22_.pdf?rnd=1635171254717

[Anonymous]

But for a MC/UMC Black family, or a white family whose kids are already at the baseline, it's not clear that Banneker is going to provide rigor to move kids above the baseline. That's the question that all of this fighting about the roots of the SAT are obfuscating.

It does but DCUM is not interested in hearing from Banneker parents.

Ok, so tell us. Did you have a child who was going to do well no matter what, and did Banneker take them to the next level in the same way a school like TJ or Blair would?