“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled," Justice Alito writes in an initial majority draft

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want to see a poll of only women because I don't give an eff what men think

Like it or not, we need men on our side. Men (decent ones anyway) care about their wives, daughters, sisters, and friends having access to medical care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As I have raged and mourned this draft opinion in conversation with my early 20's self who could never have imagined this day two decades ago, one thought and feeling has hardened in my mind - anger at the "progressive" left. Their extremely self-righteous Twitter warriorism has cost not only women, but POC and LGBTQ people the basis of their rights. I truly hope they feel sitting out the election in 2016 was worth it. We have them and their ignorance of how politics actually works to blame for Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett. So much for their "idealism" - they've handed the extreme right-wing the keys to kingdom. When will they wake the f#$k up?

WTF!

Why do moderates blame progressives all the time for staying passive and at the same time give RW a pass for doing the despicable things? Moderates need to wake up start voting Democrats all the time until all three wings of government come back to care for the majority of the country in stead of being mad at progressives.

No matter what you think progressives, they fight for everyone instead of trying to hog resources for a small rich and corrupt section of the society.

Most of them are decent people, but had they voted for Hillary in November of 2016, there would have been no President Trump. They let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

The Republicans are shamelessly, cartoonishly evil — but one thing you have to give them credit for is banding together and toeing the Party line. They work together as a team. They will defend the indefensible if need be. The ones who don’t lie, cheat and steal will turn a blind eye to the lying, cheating and stealing of their fellow Republicans — whatever it takes to win. That’s why they’ve won so much.

I’m not advocating that the Democratic Party should use Republican tactics to win at all costs, but JC, would it kill Manchin to help out his own party on the biggest issues of the day?!

You are confusing one thing with other...Liberals do not behave like sheep, which is a a good thing. Progressive idealists who voted for Bernie are not responsible for the the Trump election debacle. Moderates who do not vote looking for the perfect candidate are responsible for Trump's election.

Progressives who lobby for climate change, LGBTQ rights, POC rights, Medicare for all, raising minimum wage are not responsible for Republicans' anti American stand to sell the country to dark money. GOP has been voting against bills that are popular for a long while. This is not on progressives to stop, but for moderates to not be complacent.

Manchin is not a progressive and he is sold to corporate interest group. What moderates can do is to elect more Democratic senators to take power away from the likes of Manchin and Sinema.

+1
I have nothing but contempt for third party voters who were always telling women to calm down, nothing bad was going to happen. Stupid, stupid people who couldn’t learn from the lessons of 2000.

But I reserve my real ire for the supposed “moderates” who end up voting straight Republican and who never, ever hold the GOP’s feet to the fire for anything. Mealymouthed know-nothings who think they’re better than everyone else (although the way they talk, they just think they’re better than Democrats; again, Republicans never get held accountable for anything they say or do) who then act all huffy that the Democrats can’t fix everything that the GOP broke.

Congrats, you cowardly right winger “moderates.” Just admit that you loved the GOP trying to overthrow the government and you’re happy that women will be enslaved. But also: you aren’t moderate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As I have raged and mourned this draft opinion in conversation with my early 20's self who could never have imagined this day two decades ago, one thought and feeling has hardened in my mind - anger at the "progressive" left. Their extremely self-righteous Twitter warriorism has cost not only women, but POC and LGBTQ people the basis of their rights. I truly hope they feel sitting out the election in 2016 was worth it. We have them and their ignorance of how politics actually works to blame for Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett. So much for their "idealism" - they've handed the extreme right-wing the keys to kingdom. When will they wake the f#$k up?

WTF!

Why do moderates blame progressives all the time for staying passive and at the same time give RW a pass for doing the despicable things? Moderates need to wake up start voting Democrats all the time until all three wings of government come back to care for the majority of the country in stead of being mad at progressives.

No matter what you think progressives, they fight for everyone instead of trying to hog resources for a small rich and corrupt section of the society.

Most of them are decent people, but had they voted for Hillary in November of 2016, there would have been no President Trump. They let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

The Republicans are shamelessly, cartoonishly evil — but one thing you have to give them credit for is banding together and toeing the Party line. They work together as a team. They will defend the indefensible if need be. The ones who don’t lie, cheat and steal will turn a blind eye to the lying, cheating and stealing of their fellow Republicans — whatever it takes to win. That’s why they’ve won so much.

I’m not advocating that the Democratic Party should use Republican tactics to win at all costs, but JC, would it kill Manchin to help out his own party on the biggest issues of the day?!

You are confusing one thing with other...Liberals do not behave like sheep, which is a a good thing. Progressive idealists who voted for Bernie are not responsible for the the Trump election debacle. Moderates who do not vote looking for the perfect candidate are responsible for Trump's election.

Progressives who lobby for climate change, LGBTQ rights, POC rights, Medicare for all, raising minimum wage are not responsible for Republicans' anti American stand to sell the country to dark money. GOP has been voting against bills that are popular for a long while. This is not on progressives to stop, but for moderates to not be complacent.

Manchin is not a progressive and he is sold to corporate interest group. What moderates can do is to elect more Democratic senators to take power away from the likes of Manchin and Sinema.

No. Between gerrymandering, voter suppression, red states replacing election officials with partisans, and right wing court packing, it will take everyone else working together to make any real changes. Progressives, moderates, people who are center-left, and Republicans who want to save democracy. We all have to coalesce around the candidates who have the greatest chance of beating Republican candidates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As I have raged and mourned this draft opinion in conversation with my early 20's self who could never have imagined this day two decades ago, one thought and feeling has hardened in my mind - anger at the "progressive" left. Their extremely self-righteous Twitter warriorism has cost not only women, but POC and LGBTQ people the basis of their rights. I truly hope they feel sitting out the election in 2016 was worth it. We have them and their ignorance of how politics actually works to blame for Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett. So much for their "idealism" - they've handed the extreme right-wing the keys to kingdom. When will they wake the f#$k up?

WTF!

Why do moderates blame progressives all the time for staying passive and at the same time give RW a pass for doing the despicable things? Moderates need to wake up start voting Democrats all the time until all three wings of government come back to care for the majority of the country in stead of being mad at progressives.

No matter what you think progressives, they fight for everyone instead of trying to hog resources for a small rich and corrupt section of the society.

Most of them are decent people, but had they voted for Hillary in November of 2016, there would have been no President Trump. They let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

The Republicans are shamelessly, cartoonishly evil — but one thing you have to give them credit for is banding together and toeing the Party line. They work together as a team. They will defend the indefensible if need be. The ones who don’t lie, cheat and steal will turn a blind eye to the lying, cheating and stealing of their fellow Republicans — whatever it takes to win. That’s why they’ve won so much.

I’m not advocating that the Democratic Party should use Republican tactics to win at all costs, but JC, would it kill Manchin to help out his own party on the biggest issues of the day?!

You are confusing one thing with other...Liberals do not behave like sheep, which is a a good thing. Progressive idealists who voted for Bernie are not responsible for the the Trump election debacle. Moderates who do not vote looking for the perfect candidate are responsible for Trump's election.

Progressives who lobby for climate change, LGBTQ rights, POC rights, Medicare for all, raising minimum wage are not responsible for Republicans' anti American stand to sell the country to dark money. GOP has been voting against bills that are popular for a long while. This is not on progressives to stop, but for moderates to not be complacent.

Manchin is not a progressive and he is sold to corporate interest group. What moderates can do is to elect more Democratic senators to take power away from the likes of Manchin and Sinema.

No. Between gerrymandering, voter suppression, red states replacing election officials with partisans, and right wing court packing, it will take everyone else working together to make any real changes. Progressives, moderates, people who are center-left, and Republicans who want to save democracy. We all have to coalesce around the candidates who have the greatest chance of beating Republican candidates.

That's fine. But we need to stop berating progressive for things they care for the abhorrent republican policies. We need to direct our fire against GOP politicians and not progressive voters or politicians.

[Anonymous]

The fact that moderates and progressives are fighting is a win for the Republicans.

I will gladly vote for more moderate democratic policies than I would like, and I will also gladly vote for more progressive Democratic policies than I would like. Because at the end of the day I'm more aligned with those policies than anything that Republicans can put up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The fact that moderates and progressives are fighting is a win for the Republicans.

I will gladly vote for more moderate democratic policies than I would like, and I will also gladly vote for more progressive Democratic policies than I would like. Because at the end of the day I'm more aligned with those policies than anything that Republicans can put up.

+1
I think it's fine for us to critique each other within party as that's how things progress. At the same time, I think we all recognize when the chips are down at voting time any dem is better than the GOP at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15 weeks
No restrictions
No waiting
Easy access
Affordable
After 15 weeks - rape/incest/life of mother or fetus
Dr. is given broad discretion to use best medical practices.

I’m hard core pro-choice and could live with this
But this country has a long way to go to get abortion access to women everywhere. Later abortions are happening because of all the roadblocks republicans have erected.

I’d also like to see verbiage for free birth control and better sex education. I had excellent sex education growing up and I think it really made a difference.

I live in California and this would be more restrictive than what we currently have. If you've never had genetic testing come back at 20w and scrambled to get your MFM appointment before the abortion cut off in your state so that you would have options, please don't negotiate away the rest of our rights.

I would not support any bill that was more restrictive than Roe and that removed discretion for states. The WHPA is a good compromise...but people want Democrats to start off with a bill that their base doesn't support. No thank you.

Baseline, not a ceiling. I was just suggesting a bill that might actually pass. That’s all.
I agree 20 weeks is better.

Also: most people don’t understand what Roe even means. Democrats need to educate the public. The forced birthers have been lying for 40
Years. People now believe the lies.

15 weeks isn't any more likely to get 60 votes than 20 weeks, viability, or 40 weeks. None of them can ge 60 in the Senate. Meanwhile if 15 weeks is proposed then that becomes the new baseline negotiating position.

Find the 8 extra Senators that are willing to pass anything first. There's currently only 51 + Manchin potentially interested in anything.

Exactly. 15 weeks is just some arbitrary line. Stick with viability.

That is the gestational age where a fetus can feel pain. Science and all that.

JFC you people with your never ending stream of bullsh!t. Also, the electric signals that the ultrasound picks up at six weeks are not a “heartbeat,” since an embryo at that stage doesn’t have a fully formed heart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To all the people saying that women should just use birth control if they don't want to get pregnant. What do you do if you get pregnant and are a virgin??
I have a friend Mary who would like to know.

Your friend Mary did not try to abort her child

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15 weeks
No restrictions
No waiting
Easy access
Affordable
After 15 weeks - rape/incest/life of mother or fetus
Dr. is given broad discretion to use best medical practices.

I’m hard core pro-choice and could live with this
But this country has a long way to go to get abortion access to women everywhere. Later abortions are happening because of all the roadblocks republicans have erected.

I’d also like to see verbiage for free birth control and better sex education. I had excellent sex education growing up and I think it really made a difference.

I live in California and this would be more restrictive than what we currently have. If you've never had genetic testing come back at 20w and scrambled to get your MFM appointment before the abortion cut off in your state so that you would have options, please don't negotiate away the rest of our rights.

I would not support any bill that was more restrictive than Roe and that removed discretion for states. The WHPA is a good compromise...but people want Democrats to start off with a bill that their base doesn't support. No thank you.

Baseline, not a ceiling. I was just suggesting a bill that might actually pass. That’s all.
I agree 20 weeks is better.

Also: most people don’t understand what Roe even means. Democrats need to educate the public. The forced birthers have been lying for 40
Years. People now believe the lies.

15 weeks isn't any more likely to get 60 votes than 20 weeks, viability, or 40 weeks. None of them can ge 60 in the Senate. Meanwhile if 15 weeks is proposed then that becomes the new baseline negotiating position.

Find the 8 extra Senators that are willing to pass anything first. There's currently only 51 + Manchin potentially interested in anything.

Exactly. 15 weeks is just some arbitrary line. Stick with viability.

That is the gestational age where a fetus can feel pain. Science and all that.

JFC you people with your never ending stream of bullsh!t. Also, the electric signals that the ultrasound picks up at six weeks are not a “heartbeat,” since an embryo at that stage doesn’t have a fully formed heart.

Actually, it is a heartbeat - a very early one. The heart is not fully formed for another couple weeks, but the tube starts beating earlier because it needs to pump blood for development.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want to see a poll of only women because I don't give an eff what men think

Do you get pregnant without male sperm?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15 weeks
No restrictions
No waiting
Easy access
Affordable
After 15 weeks - rape/incest/life of mother or fetus
Dr. is given broad discretion to use best medical practices.

I’m hard core pro-choice and could live with this
But this country has a long way to go to get abortion access to women everywhere. Later abortions are happening because of all the roadblocks republicans have erected.

I’d also like to see verbiage for free birth control and better sex education. I had excellent sex education growing up and I think it really made a difference.

I live in California and this would be more restrictive than what we currently have. If you've never had genetic testing come back at 20w and scrambled to get your MFM appointment before the abortion cut off in your state so that you would have options, please don't negotiate away the rest of our rights.

I would not support any bill that was more restrictive than Roe and that removed discretion for states. The WHPA is a good compromise...but people want Democrats to start off with a bill that their base doesn't support. No thank you.

Baseline, not a ceiling. I was just suggesting a bill that might actually pass. That’s all.
I agree 20 weeks is better.

Also: most people don’t understand what Roe even means. Democrats need to educate the public. The forced birthers have been lying for 40
Years. People now believe the lies.

15 weeks isn't any more likely to get 60 votes than 20 weeks, viability, or 40 weeks. None of them can ge 60 in the Senate. Meanwhile if 15 weeks is proposed then that becomes the new baseline negotiating position.

Find the 8 extra Senators that are willing to pass anything first. There's currently only 51 + Manchin potentially interested in anything.

Exactly. 15 weeks is just some arbitrary line. Stick with viability.

That is the gestational age where a fetus can feel pain. Science and all that.

JFC you people with your never ending stream of bullsh!t. Also, the electric signals that the ultrasound picks up at six weeks are not a “heartbeat,” since an embryo at that stage doesn’t have a fully formed heart.

Actually, it is a heartbeat - a very early one. The heart is not fully formed for another couple weeks, but the tube starts beating earlier because it needs to pump blood for development.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15 weeks
No restrictions
No waiting
Easy access
Affordable
After 15 weeks - rape/incest/life of mother or fetus
Dr. is given broad discretion to use best medical practices.

I’m hard core pro-choice and could live with this
But this country has a long way to go to get abortion access to women everywhere. Later abortions are happening because of all the roadblocks republicans have erected.

I’d also like to see verbiage for free birth control and better sex education. I had excellent sex education growing up and I think it really made a difference.

I live in California and this would be more restrictive than what we currently have. If you've never had genetic testing come back at 20w and scrambled to get your MFM appointment before the abortion cut off in your state so that you would have options, please don't negotiate away the rest of our rights.

I would not support any bill that was more restrictive than Roe and that removed discretion for states. The WHPA is a good compromise...but people want Democrats to start off with a bill that their base doesn't support. No thank you.

Baseline, not a ceiling. I was just suggesting a bill that might actually pass. That’s all.
I agree 20 weeks is better.

Also: most people don’t understand what Roe even means. Democrats need to educate the public. The forced birthers have been lying for 40
Years. People now believe the lies.

You decry those you call forced birthers. I think those in favor of vacuuming out what they describe as a clump of cells or an unwanted guest are lying about the pain felt by the growing baby and the trash pile on which they're tossed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to win the slogan war:

Women's Lives Matter
Mothers' Freedom to Live
Born an Orphan

Republicans are so much better at winning the sound-byte war and turning votes because they focus on the extreme cases that make a law while ignoring the run of the mill.

Democrats won the messaging war in Florida labeling the parental bill the "Don't Say Gay" bill. They need to focus on the visceral message to label this action. It has to have a grain of truth, it doesn't have to be completely accurate.

Flip the script - “Abortion Saves Lives”

The problem with messaging is using terms that turn people off. The word abortion is so loaded from propaganda from both sides that many people, including a large amount of people who don't pay attention to the media and news sources, immediately have ideas in their mind that may or may not be part of the discussion.

To be effective messaging, you want to use terms that will give people a visceral positive message or a message that they automatically want to support. And that means not including the politically loaded word "abortion"

How is a medical procedure “loaded”? The point of saying Abortion and talking about abortion de stigmatizes it. But I want to make a slaughter change: Abortion care saves lives.

DP: It shouldn't be but it is. That's the unfortunate reality

And THAT is why we need to be talking about it. Tell our stories, how someone you love will need/has had an abortion. NOT talking about something Does. Not. Make. It. Less. Controversial.
Abortion care is healthcare, abortion saves lives, abortion allows women the freedom to decide when and how to have a family. Abortion is common. Access to abortion impacts our economic lives.

You can't decide when and how to have a family without being able to have an abortion?

No one has ever told you their personal stories and based on your tone, probably for good reason.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I've counseled many teens and women. I didn't say I'm opposed to abortions. I don't think they should be viewed as a family planning tool.

Exactly zero women and girls use abortion as a family planning tool.

You must not have read the previous post or else you wrote it and are now backtracking.

+1 no doubt about it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And Trump got three supreme Court seats. Instead of voting for Hillary in the supreme Court you voted for Bernie.
You put person over party but Republicans would vote for a turd if there's an R by its name.

Now they get the supreme Court for the next 30 years

Yep. I held my nose and voted for Hillary,.while most of the Bernie bros did not. And now this is what we get for the next 30 years or so, unless all the rest of us join together to fight these religious zealots.

Oh please! I am in NO WAY a fan of Bernie but this goes back much further than 2016. This is a product of GOPs REDMAP plan that started in 2010. When Obama won, Republicans lost their friggin minds so they came up with a plan to take over state gov. For very little money they were able to get GOP elected (and Dems ignored this) until GOP had so much control that they could pass these draconian bills.

Can ya’ll just stop with the blame game? It’s gonna take everyone who is pro-choice to come together if we want to get out of this mess. The Republican Party has changed. This is a binary choice. If you believe the women should have the freedom to make their own health decision it means you STOP voting for MAGA Republicans, , and either vote for Dems or stay home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


Yep. I held my nose and voted for Hillary,.while most of the Bernie bros did not. And now this is what we get for the next 30 years or so, unless all the rest of us join together to fight these religious zealots.


Oh please! I am in NO WAY a fan of Bernie but this goes back much further than 2016. This is a product of GOPs REDMAP plan that started in 2010. When Obama won, Republicans lost their friggin minds so they came up with a plan to take over state gov. For very little money they were able to get GOP elected (and Dems ignored this) until GOP had so much control that they could pass these draconian bills.

Can ya’ll just stop with the blame game? It’s gonna take everyone who is pro-choice to come together if we want to get out of this mess. The Republican Party has changed. This is a binary choice. If you believe the women should have the freedom to make their own health decision it means you STOP voting for MAGA Republicans, , and either vote for Dems or stay home.
[Report Post]

Amen. No matter how much you dislike the progressive agenda (and I really dislike a lot of it), the only option to stop the Christian authoritarian juggernaut (the one that will overthrow elections a la January 6 and impose a national abortion ban) is to vote Dem or stay home. I grew up with these people. A country ruled by Christian white males (with a smattering of non-objectionable minorities and female toadies) is exactly what they want. They have taken over the Supreme Court. If they take over Congress, and then the presidency, we will quickly become a democracy in name only. For years the anti-choice mantra was "return the issue of abortion to the states". Now its a "national abortion ban" per Mitch McConnell. These people only want the states to have power so long as states toe the Christian fundamentalist line.