“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled," Justice Alito writes in an initial majority draft

[Anonymous]

(Barely gives time)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:15 weeks
No restrictions
No waiting
Easy access
Affordable
After 15 weeks - rape/incest/life of mother or fetus
Dr. is given broad discretion to use best medical practices.

I’m hard core pro-choice and could live with this
But this country has a long way to go to get abortion access to women everywhere. Later abortions are happening because of all the roadblocks republicans have erected.

I’d also like to see verbiage for free birth control and better sex education. I had excellent sex education growing up and I think it really made a difference.

Question (for anybody who supports such restrictions): how would any of this be applied, as a practical matter? How do you prove rape/incest (considering many aren't reported and if they are, do not result in a conviction and if they do, it takes longer than 9 months)? And if you don't have to prove it, isn't the restriction meaningless? Also, what does "life of the mother" mean considering that some degree of risk is inherent in every pregnancy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:15 weeks
No restrictions
No waiting
Easy access
Affordable
After 15 weeks - rape/incest/life of mother or fetus
Dr. is given broad discretion to use best medical practices.

I’m hard core pro-choice and could live with this
But this country has a long way to go to get abortion access to women everywhere. Later abortions are happening because of all the roadblocks republicans have erected.

I’d also like to see verbiage for free birth control and better sex education. I had excellent sex education growing up and I think it really made a difference.

Agree with all of this except it should be viability. 15w is too early. And too arbitrary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As I have raged and mourned this draft opinion in conversation with my early 20's self who could never have imagined this day two decades ago, one thought and feeling has hardened in my mind - anger at the "progressive" left. Their extremely self-righteous Twitter warriorism has cost not only women, but POC and LGBTQ people the basis of their rights. I truly hope they feel sitting out the election in 2016 was worth it. We have them and their ignorance of how politics actually works to blame for Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett. So much for their "idealism" - they've handed the extreme right-wing the keys to kingdom. When will they wake the f#$k up?

LOL, stop blaming the progressives. Look at the bill that Chuck Schumer put up for a vote. If they wrote it to protect abortion after 15 weeks, it would have drawn republican votes. But no, it was written to remove all restrictions on abortion - even for the purpose of choosing the child's sex. This is not at all what the US citizens want when they think about keeping abortions legal.

Look at you, hating on a a great common sense bill that no “moderate Republican” (there aren’t any) could support.

Allowing abortions with no restrictions is not a common sense bill.

Do you honestly think that women voluntarily choose to get a late stage abortion? There's a reason women find themselves there, it's not for kicks and giggles.

Why not let a woman and her doctor decide what is best, instead of trying to legislate the situation.

I'm not here to debate with you on whether or not there should be limits on abortion. The general support for abortion among US citizens is at 15 weeks. That would have made for a common sense law. Trying to pass a law without any limitation clearly is not "common sense".

As to why not let a woman and a doctor decide on a late term abortion - there is the matter of the unborn child, which the government has a compelling public interest in protecting.

Can you provide a source for your claim that 15 weeks is the dividing line for a majority of Americans?

+1

15 weeks is very early.

Most Americans do support RvW - viability.

15 weeks is just a such a stupid line. Women don’t want late abortions. They have late abortions because they have to have late abortions. Your average woman whose birth control failed wants to get unpregnant as early as possible.

OK but Americans like the 15 week marker, and you can codify that and then let states decide what happens after 15 weeks. Do you want some pie or no pie?

No, they do NOT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As I have raged and mourned this draft opinion in conversation with my early 20's self who could never have imagined this day two decades ago, one thought and feeling has hardened in my mind - anger at the "progressive" left. Their extremely self-righteous Twitter warriorism has cost not only women, but POC and LGBTQ people the basis of their rights. I truly hope they feel sitting out the election in 2016 was worth it. We have them and their ignorance of how politics actually works to blame for Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett. So much for their "idealism" - they've handed the extreme right-wing the keys to kingdom. When will they wake the f#$k up?

LOL, stop blaming the progressives. Look at the bill that Chuck Schumer put up for a vote. If they wrote it to protect abortion after 15 weeks, it would have drawn republican votes. But no, it was written to remove all restrictions on abortion - even for the purpose of choosing the child's sex. This is not at all what the US citizens want when they think about keeping abortions legal.

Look at you, hating on a a great common sense bill that no “moderate Republican” (there aren’t any) could support.

Allowing abortions with no restrictions is not a common sense bill.

Do you honestly think that women voluntarily choose to get a late stage abortion? There's a reason women find themselves there, it's not for kicks and giggles.

Why not let a woman and her doctor decide what is best, instead of trying to legislate the situation.

I'm not here to debate with you on whether or not there should be limits on abortion. The general support for abortion among US citizens is at 15 weeks. That would have made for a common sense law. Trying to pass a law without any limitation clearly is not "common sense".

As to why not let a woman and a doctor decide on a late term abortion - there is the matter of the unborn child, which the government has a compelling public interest in protecting.

Can you provide a source for your claim that 15 weeks is the dividing line for a majority of Americans?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/supreme-court-poised-reverse-roe-americans-support-abortion/story?id=84468131

Under the headline:
“Majorities also reject six- and 15- week abortion bans”

“ In this poll, by contrast, 57% of Americans oppose a ban after 15 weeks; 58% say abortion should be legal in all or most cases; and 54% say the court should uphold Roe, compared with 28% who say the ruling should be overturned.”

Most do NOT support 15 week cut off. Most support Roe / viability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As I have raged and mourned this draft opinion in conversation with my early 20's self who could never have imagined this day two decades ago, one thought and feeling has hardened in my mind - anger at the "progressive" left. Their extremely self-righteous Twitter warriorism has cost not only women, but POC and LGBTQ people the basis of their rights. I truly hope they feel sitting out the election in 2016 was worth it. We have them and their ignorance of how politics actually works to blame for Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett. So much for their "idealism" - they've handed the extreme right-wing the keys to kingdom. When will they wake the f#$k up?

LOL, stop blaming the progressives. Look at the bill that Chuck Schumer put up for a vote. If they wrote it to protect abortion after 15 weeks, it would have drawn republican votes. But no, it was written to remove all restrictions on abortion - even for the purpose of choosing the child's sex. This is not at all what the US citizens want when they think about keeping abortions legal.

Look at you, hating on a a great common sense bill that no “moderate Republican” (there aren’t any) could support.

Allowing abortions with no restrictions is not a common sense bill.

Do you honestly think that women voluntarily choose to get a late stage abortion? There's a reason women find themselves there, it's not for kicks and giggles.

Why not let a woman and her doctor decide what is best, instead of trying to legislate the situation.

I'm not here to debate with you on whether or not there should be limits on abortion. The general support for abortion among US citizens is at 15 weeks. That would have made for a common sense law. Trying to pass a law without any limitation clearly is not "common sense".

As to why not let a woman and a doctor decide on a late term abortion - there is the matter of the unborn child, which the government has a compelling public interest in protecting.

Can you provide a source for your claim that 15 weeks is the dividing line for a majority of Americans?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/03/most-americans-say-supreme-court-should-uphold-roe-post-abc-poll-finds/

Go read your link again. I just can’t with the illiterates around here.

[Anonymous]

Scary thing is my cousin who wanted Roe overturned didn't know it didn't allow abortion at any time for any reason and that there were restrictions and limitations included.


Now she is like, why not keep it? Wtf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As I have raged and mourned this draft opinion in conversation with my early 20's self who could never have imagined this day two decades ago, one thought and feeling has hardened in my mind - anger at the "progressive" left. Their extremely self-righteous Twitter warriorism has cost not only women, but POC and LGBTQ people the basis of their rights. I truly hope they feel sitting out the election in 2016 was worth it. We have them and their ignorance of how politics actually works to blame for Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett. So much for their "idealism" - they've handed the extreme right-wing the keys to kingdom. When will they wake the f#$k up?

LOL, stop blaming the progressives. Look at the bill that Chuck Schumer put up for a vote. If they wrote it to protect abortion after 15 weeks, it would have drawn republican votes. But no, it was written to remove all restrictions on abortion - even for the purpose of choosing the child's sex. This is not at all what the US citizens want when they think about keeping abortions legal.

So basically you wanted Democrats to put up something more restrictive than Roe, because you don’t support Roe.

I don't think that's fair. A bill that guaranteed the right before 15 weeks, while allowing states to either restrict or allow abortion after 15 weeks, would have been a very reasonable and fair compromise, and would be in line with what most Americans say they want.

I don't think we'd have peeled off any Rs, that said. It still would have failed. But that is the right federal law to pass, if we can ever do it - and if the Sup Ct wouldn't strike it down as violating states' rights.

Have people forgotten what the Roe ruling did? Not the Casey ruling that limited Roe, but Roe. The Senate put out a bill to codify Roe. 15 weeks has nothing to do with that and is currently unconstitutional under the Roe/Casey standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As I have raged and mourned this draft opinion in conversation with my early 20's self who could never have imagined this day two decades ago, one thought and feeling has hardened in my mind - anger at the "progressive" left. Their extremely self-righteous Twitter warriorism has cost not only women, but POC and LGBTQ people the basis of their rights. I truly hope they feel sitting out the election in 2016 was worth it. We have them and their ignorance of how politics actually works to blame for Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett. So much for their "idealism" - they've handed the extreme right-wing the keys to kingdom. When will they wake the f#$k up?

LOL, stop blaming the progressives. Look at the bill that Chuck Schumer put up for a vote. If they wrote it to protect abortion after 15 weeks, it would have drawn republican votes. But no, it was written to remove all restrictions on abortion - even for the purpose of choosing the child's sex. This is not at all what the US citizens want when they think about keeping abortions legal.

Look at you, hating on a a great common sense bill that no “moderate Republican” (there aren’t any) could support.

Allowing abortions with no restrictions is not a common sense bill.

Do you honestly think that women voluntarily choose to get a late stage abortion? There's a reason women find themselves there, it's not for kicks and giggles.

Why not let a woman and her doctor decide what is best, instead of trying to legislate the situation.

I'm not here to debate with you on whether or not there should be limits on abortion. The general support for abortion among US citizens is at 15 weeks. That would have made for a common sense law. Trying to pass a law without any limitation clearly is not "common sense".

As to why not let a woman and a doctor decide on a late term abortion - there is the matter of the unborn child, which the government has a compelling public interest in protecting.

Can you provide a source for your claim that 15 weeks is the dividing line for a majority of Americans?

+1

15 weeks is very early.

Most Americans do support RvW - viability.

15 weeks is just a such a stupid line. Women don’t want late abortions. They have late abortions because they have to have late abortions. Your average woman whose birth control failed wants to get unpregnant as early as possible.

OK but Americans like the 15 week marker, and you can codify that and then let states decide what happens after 15 weeks. Do you want some pie or no pie?

AGAIN: “57% of Americans oppose a ban after 15 weeks; 58% say abortion should be legal in all or most cases; and 54% say the court should uphold Roe, compared with 28% who say the ruling should be overturned.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Scary thing is my cousin who wanted Roe overturned didn't know it didn't allow abortion at any time for any reason and that there were restrictions and limitations included.


Now she is like, why not keep it? Wtf

Most Americans are this dumb and ignorant. Sad, but true.

[Anonymous]

I want to see a poll of only women because I don't give an eff what men think

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Scary thing is my cousin who wanted Roe overturned didn't know it didn't allow abortion at any time for any reason and that there were restrictions and limitations included.


Now she is like, why not keep it? Wtf

I think if more people understood Roe v Casey (which replaced Roe v Wade) they would understand that it’s very reasonable. Religious zealots aside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As I have raged and mourned this draft opinion in conversation with my early 20's self who could never have imagined this day two decades ago, one thought and feeling has hardened in my mind - anger at the "progressive" left. Their extremely self-righteous Twitter warriorism has cost not only women, but POC and LGBTQ people the basis of their rights. I truly hope they feel sitting out the election in 2016 was worth it. We have them and their ignorance of how politics actually works to blame for Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett. So much for their "idealism" - they've handed the extreme right-wing the keys to kingdom. When will they wake the f#$k up?

LOL, stop blaming the progressives. Look at the bill that Chuck Schumer put up for a vote. If they wrote it to protect abortion after 15 weeks, it would have drawn republican votes. But no, it was written to remove all restrictions on abortion - even for the purpose of choosing the child's sex. This is not at all what the US citizens want when they think about keeping abortions legal.

So basically you wanted Democrats to put up something more restrictive than Roe, because you don’t support Roe.

I don't think that's fair. A bill that guaranteed the right before 15 weeks, while allowing states to either restrict or allow abortion after 15 weeks, would have been a very reasonable and fair compromise, and would be in line with what most Americans say they want.

I don't think we'd have peeled off any Rs, that said. It still would have failed. But that is the right federal law to pass, if we can ever do it - and if the Sup Ct wouldn't strike it down as violating states' rights.

Have people forgotten what the Roe ruling did? Not the Casey ruling that limited Roe, but Roe. The Senate put out a bill to codify Roe. 15 weeks has nothing to do with that and is currently unconstitutional under the Roe/Casey standard.

Well guess what, Roe is dead. So there's really no point in wishing that we still had Roe. We don't have it. We can either move forward with something that has a snowball's chance of preserving some abortion rights for the most common types of abortion, or we can enter Gilead. I think we're heading toward the latter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15 weeks
No restrictions
No waiting
Easy access
Affordable
After 15 weeks - rape/incest/life of mother or fetus
Dr. is given broad discretion to use best medical practices.

I’m hard core pro-choice and could live with this
But this country has a long way to go to get abortion access to women everywhere. Later abortions are happening because of all the roadblocks republicans have erected.

I’d also like to see verbiage for free birth control and better sex education. I had excellent sex education growing up and I think it really made a difference.

I live in California and this would be more restrictive than what we currently have. If you've never had genetic testing come back at 20w and scrambled to get your MFM appointment before the abortion cut off in your state so that you would have options, please don't negotiate away the rest of our rights.

I would not support any bill that was more restrictive than Roe and that removed discretion for states. The WHPA is a good compromise...but people want Democrats to start off with a bill that their base doesn't support. No thank you.

Baseline, not a ceiling. I was just suggesting a bill that might actually pass. That’s all.
I agree 20 weeks is better.

Also: most people don’t understand what Roe even means. Democrats need to educate the public. The forced birthers have been lying for 40
Years. People now believe the lies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15 weeks
No restrictions
No waiting
Easy access
Affordable
After 15 weeks - rape/incest/life of mother or fetus
Dr. is given broad discretion to use best medical practices.

I’m hard core pro-choice and could live with this
But this country has a long way to go to get abortion access to women everywhere. Later abortions are happening because of all the roadblocks republicans have erected.

I’d also like to see verbiage for free birth control and better sex education. I had excellent sex education growing up and I think it really made a difference.

I live in California and this would be more restrictive than what we currently have. If you've never had genetic testing come back at 20w and scrambled to get your MFM appointment before the abortion cut off in your state so that you would have options, please don't negotiate away the rest of our rights.

I would not support any bill that was more restrictive than Roe and that removed discretion for states. The WHPA is a good compromise...but people want Democrats to start off with a bill that their base doesn't support. No thank you.

Baseline, not a ceiling. I was just suggesting a bill that might actually pass. That’s all.
I agree 20 weeks is better.

Also: most people don’t understand what Roe even means. Democrats need to educate the public. The forced birthers have been lying for 40
Years. People now believe the lies.

15 weeks isn't any more likely to get 60 votes than 20 weeks, viability, or 40 weeks. None of them can ge 60 in the Senate. Meanwhile if 15 weeks is proposed then that becomes the new baseline negotiating position.

Find the 8 extra Senators that are willing to pass anything first. There's currently only 51 + Manchin potentially interested in anything.