NPS: Ban Cars Now in DC Urban Parks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you need to read the Americans With Disabilities Act. Your idea effectively limits access to millions of people who also have a right to enjoy the parks.

Sounds like you need to read the ADA - it doesn't guarantee car access to everywhere someone with a disability might want to go.

yes. and - Hains Point is now largely inaccessible due to cars! One of the people killed was using a cane because he had mobility issues post surgery. there is no way for a mobility impaired person to enjoy much of Hains Point now due to disrepair and cars.

Absolute hyperbole.

It's not hyperbole, at all. To walk or bike in Hains Point right now you have no other option than the road in many places because the sidewalk is closed or flooded. And the road is not designed with any traffic calming at all, which means that bikes are not well protected either.

I bike ride in Hains Point all the time. The drivers are fine, bike rising is easy and safe. Plenty of pedestrians, though there are a few issues with the sidewalks.

You're making Hains Point sound like the Dayton 500. I have a feeling you don't go there often, if at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think the bigger problem is your reasoning skills.

For one thing, there are way more than 359,000 cars in DC. It's very expensive to register your car with the city so lots of people don't bother (including me).

Also, um, most of those cars are used by more than one person. Let's say there's a family of five -- mom, dad, three kids under the age of, say, 12. Under your reasoning, I guess only one of the adults counts as owning the car and the rest (including children under the age of 12?) are counted as *not* owning cars. As you can see, that's crazy.

Obviously, cars are huge in DC and bicycles are not. Maybe someday more than a tiny number of people will regularly ride bikes in DC, but that day is not today.

36% of households in DC do not own a car.

I'll agree that cars are huge in DC, especially Suburbans, Range Rovers, etc. Those vehicles might be a suitable size if you live in Montana, but they're very unsuitable for DC. They're also especially deadly for pedestrians, bicyclists, scooter-users, moped riders, motorcyclists, and people in smaller cars.

You can look at the data here by census tract or zip code: https://www.dchealthmatters.org/indicators/index/view?indicatorId=281&localeId=130951

Which means 64 percent or about two-thirds own a car. But that number is probably too low. Here's the math:

There are 284,000 households in DC. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that 36 percent actually don't have cars. That leaves 182,000 households with cars.

Yet the city says there are 359,000 cars registered. Let's say 20 percent of cars in DC are not registered. That gives us a total of 431,000 cars in DC.

If only 182,000 households had cars, that would mean each household ON AVERAGE would own 2.3 cars. That's obviously wrong, and that 64 percent of households owning a car is too low.

So, on the one hand, Census data, and on the other hand, you making assumptions and doing arithmetic. I think I'll go with the Census data.

In the one hand you have a “household” representing 1 hill intern in a studio apartment. On the other hand you have a multigenerational household living in Ward 7. You seriously comprehension and context. You are also someone who seems so invested in their worldview that you are willing to lie to strangers on a anonymous message board. Pretty sad life.

You're the one who claimed 36 percent of households in DC don't have cars. I'm merely pointing out that number is baloney unless you think every remaining household in DC -- including interns in studio apartments, etc. -- owns an average of 2.3 cars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You're the one who claimed 36 percent of households in DC don't have cars. I'm merely pointing out that number is baloney unless you think every remaining household in DC -- including interns in studio apartments, etc. -- owns an average of 2.3 cars.

Tell the Census Bureau that their number is baloney.

https://www.dchealthmatters.org/indicators/index/view?indicatorId=281&localeId=130951

Households without a Vehicle

This indicator shows the percentage of households that do not have a vehicle.

Why is this important?

Vehicle ownership is directly related to the ability to travel. In general, people living in a household without a car make fewer than half the number of journeys compared to those with a car. This limits their access to essential local services such as supermarkets, post offices, doctors' offices, and hospitals. Most households with above-average incomes have a car while only half of low-income households do.

City: District of Columbia 35.9%
Source: American Community Survey
Measurement period: 2015-2019
Maintained by: Conduent Healthy Communities Institute
Last update: March 2021

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I bike ride in Hains Point all the time. The drivers are fine, bike rising is easy and safe. Plenty of pedestrians, though there are a few issues with the sidewalks.

You're making Hains Point sound like the Dayton 500. I have a feeling you don't go there often, if at all.

One of those fine drivers killed 2 pedestrians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you need to read the Americans With Disabilities Act. Your idea effectively limits access to millions of people who also have a right to enjoy the parks.

Sounds like you need to read the ADA - it doesn't guarantee car access to everywhere someone with a disability might want to go.

yes. and - Hains Point is now largely inaccessible due to cars! One of the people killed was using a cane because he had mobility issues post surgery. there is no way for a mobility impaired person to enjoy much of Hains Point now due to disrepair and cars.

How do you think he got to Hains Point? It's over 2 miles from L'Enfant metro to where the reckless driver hit him. This was a tragic accident, but you're being ridiculous saying banning cars would make it more accessible to people with mobility issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you need to read the Americans With Disabilities Act. Your idea effectively limits access to millions of people who also have a right to enjoy the parks.

Sounds like you need to read the ADA - it doesn't guarantee car access to everywhere someone with a disability might want to go.

yes. and - Hains Point is now largely inaccessible due to cars! One of the people killed was using a cane because he had mobility issues post surgery. there is no way for a mobility impaired person to enjoy much of Hains Point now due to disrepair and cars.

How do you think he got to Hains Point? It's over 2 miles from L'Enfant metro to where the reckless driver hit him. This was a tragic accident, but you're being ridiculous saying banning cars would make it more accessible to people with mobility issues.

Well, that's a good question. How did he get there?

Note also the difference between "People must be able to get to Hains Point by car" and "People must be able to drive everywhere at Hains Point".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think the bigger problem is your reasoning skills.

For one thing, there are way more than 359,000 cars in DC. It's very expensive to register your car with the city so lots of people don't bother (including me).

Also, um, most of those cars are used by more than one person. Let's say there's a family of five -- mom, dad, three kids under the age of, say, 12. Under your reasoning, I guess only one of the adults counts as owning the car and the rest (including children under the age of 12?) are counted as *not* owning cars. As you can see, that's crazy.

Obviously, cars are huge in DC and bicycles are not. Maybe someday more than a tiny number of people will regularly ride bikes in DC, but that day is not today.

36% of households in DC do not own a car.

I'll agree that cars are huge in DC, especially Suburbans, Range Rovers, etc. Those vehicles might be a suitable size if you live in Montana, but they're very unsuitable for DC. They're also especially deadly for pedestrians, bicyclists, scooter-users, moped riders, motorcyclists, and people in smaller cars.

You can look at the data here by census tract or zip code: https://www.dchealthmatters.org/indicators/index/view?indicatorId=281&localeId=130951

Which means 64 percent or about two-thirds own a car. But that number is probably too low. Here's the math:

There are 284,000 households in DC. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that 36 percent actually don't have cars. That leaves 182,000 households with cars.

Yet the city says there are 359,000 cars registered. Let's say 20 percent of cars in DC are not registered. That gives us a total of 431,000 cars in DC.

If only 182,000 households had cars, that would mean each household ON AVERAGE would own 2.3 cars. That's obviously wrong, and that 64 percent of households owning a car is too low.

So, on the one hand, Census data, and on the other hand, you making assumptions and doing arithmetic. I think I'll go with the Census data.

In the one hand you have a “household” representing 1 hill intern in a studio apartment. On the other hand you have a multigenerational household living in Ward 7. You seriously comprehension and context. You are also someone who seems so invested in their worldview that you are willing to lie to strangers on a anonymous message board. Pretty sad life.

You're the one who claimed 36 percent of households in DC don't have cars. I'm merely pointing out that number is baloney unless you think every remaining household in DC -- including interns in studio apartments, etc. -- owns an average of 2.3 cars.

You’ve got the wrong person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you need to read the Americans With Disabilities Act. Your idea effectively limits access to millions of people who also have a right to enjoy the parks.

Sounds like you need to read the ADA - it doesn't guarantee car access to everywhere someone with a disability might want to go.

yes. and - Hains Point is now largely inaccessible due to cars! One of the people killed was using a cane because he had mobility issues post surgery. there is no way for a mobility impaired person to enjoy much of Hains Point now due to disrepair and cars.

Absolute hyperbole.

It's not hyperbole, at all. To walk or bike in Hains Point right now you have no other option than the road in many places because the sidewalk is closed or flooded. And the road is not designed with any traffic calming at all, which means that bikes are not well protected either.

I bike ride in Hains Point all the time. The drivers are fine, bike rising is easy and safe. Plenty of pedestrians, though there are a few issues with the sidewalks.

You're making Hains Point sound like the Dayton 500. I have a feeling you don't go there often, if at all.

people were literally just killed there. I would not feel comfortable biking with my kid. Just shut it down on at least one side. Cars don’t need to be everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you need to read the Americans With Disabilities Act. Your idea effectively limits access to millions of people who also have a right to enjoy the parks.

Sounds like you need to read the ADA - it doesn't guarantee car access to everywhere someone with a disability might want to go.

yes. and - Hains Point is now largely inaccessible due to cars! One of the people killed was using a cane because he had mobility issues post surgery. there is no way for a mobility impaired person to enjoy much of Hains Point now due to disrepair and cars.

How do you think he got to Hains Point? It's over 2 miles from L'Enfant metro to where the reckless driver hit him. This was a tragic accident, but you're being ridiculous saying banning cars would make it more accessible to people with mobility issues.

there can be a parking lot people can walk from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you need to read the Americans With Disabilities Act. Your idea effectively limits access to millions of people who also have a right to enjoy the parks.

Sounds like you need to read the ADA - it doesn't guarantee car access to everywhere someone with a disability might want to go.

yes. and - Hains Point is now largely inaccessible due to cars! One of the people killed was using a cane because he had mobility issues post surgery. there is no way for a mobility impaired person to enjoy much of Hains Point now due to disrepair and cars.

How do you think he got to Hains Point? It's over 2 miles from L'Enfant metro to where the reckless driver hit him. This was a tragic accident, but you're being ridiculous saying banning cars would make it more accessible to people with mobility issues.

there can be a parking lot people can walk from.

Please look at the map and tell me where you would put this parking lot if you aren’t talking about the one by the playground and picnic areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

there can be a parking lot people can walk from.

Please look at the map and tell me where you would put this parking lot if you aren’t talking about the one by the playground and picnic areas.

DP. Maybe we could start with general agreement that it would be acceptable to have a parking lot that people would drive to, park, and get out and walk from. THEN figure out where that parking lot should go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

there can be a parking lot people can walk from.

Please look at the map and tell me where you would put this parking lot if you aren’t talking about the one by the playground and picnic areas.

DP. Maybe we could start with general agreement that it would be acceptable to have a parking lot that people would drive to, park, and get out and walk from. THEN figure out where that parking lot should go.

No thanks. We're doing speed bumps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

there can be a parking lot people can walk from.

Please look at the map and tell me where you would put this parking lot if you aren’t talking about the one by the playground and picnic areas.

DP. Maybe we could start with general agreement that it would be acceptable to have a parking lot that people would drive to, park, and get out and walk from. THEN figure out where that parking lot should go.

That parking lot exists. It’s by the playground and picnic grounds. The rest of the peninsula is taken up by the golf course, which is why I asked that people look at the map. There is no other reasonable place for parking for the playground and picnic area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

there can be a parking lot people can walk from.

Please look at the map and tell me where you would put this parking lot if you aren’t talking about the one by the playground and picnic areas.

DP. Maybe we could start with general agreement that it would be acceptable to have a parking lot that people would drive to, park, and get out and walk from. THEN figure out where that parking lot should go.

That parking lot exists. It’s by the playground and picnic grounds. The rest of the peninsula is taken up by the golf course, which is why I asked that people look at the map. There is no other reasonable place for parking for the playground and picnic area.

there’s no other reasonable place to walk and bike than the road, so cars have to be kept off it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

there can be a parking lot people can walk from.

Please look at the map and tell me where you would put this parking lot if you aren’t talking about the one by the playground and picnic areas.

DP. Maybe we could start with general agreement that it would be acceptable to have a parking lot that people would drive to, park, and get out and walk from. THEN figure out where that parking lot should go.

No thanks. We're doing speed bumps.

on only one side, half way. the other 3/4 car free