Framing Britney Spears

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it legal to force sterilize someone?

Brittany is not sterilized and yes it's legal to make medical decisions for someone who can not.

Might I chime in here even though i'm sure many people might not like what I have to say, and of course i might be totally wrong because i don't know Brittany and he actual medical condition. None of us can know.

My mom is seriously mentally ill. I feel if you don't know someone with mental illness it's hard to understand or relate to things that seem uncalled for or inhumane.

Severely mentally ill people can not care for themselves or others. Many have anosognosia where they are in denial or don't know that they are ill. My mom has anosognosia she is 64 years old and for my entire life of 37 years she has been been trying to convince everyone around her that she is fine. She believes that she is fine and the world is out to get her. It brings her such agony and distress. She 100% believes she is fine and everything is against her and necessary. She had been in a conservatorship under her mother for 36 years.

With medication she can be more functional. However with anosognosia the sufferer doesn't think there is anything wrong with them and it's a cycle of fighting for freedom, obtaining it, then not caring for themself and going off their meds and then ending up in a terrible state back in a mental facility on heavy drugs like Lithium and then released and so on. My mom managed to get her freedom in my lifetime 6x. It's all she ever talks about and when she has it, it becomes a quick downward spiral every single time. At times she can be very convincing. She can not be on her own. Mental illness can not be cured, and she will never get better, and she will never have the freedom she desires. When she is on her own she is a danger to herself and others around her.

This is sadly her life.

There were times when she wanted more kids and all of that and she was not allowed to because she could not care for me and she could not care for herself. She left me unattended, and would put my life directly in danger many times. Sometimes she was violent, sometimes she was neglectful, and sometimes she was delusional.

Not allowing Brittany to have kids might be in the interest of the kid that she could not take care of. with someone in the public eye like Brittany it would just be such a scandal and such medical negligence to put her on something as strong as lithium if she didn't need it, to take custody of her children away, and etc.

But again what do we know. Maybe it is all one big scandal.

Maybe her dad is taking advantage of the situation how can we know, but it's important to keep in mind that there might be more to the situation than we know.

Even if she isn't being mishandled I feel very badly for her. I know that my mom suffers everyday thinking the world is against her, being forced on meds she doesn't want and thinks she doesn't need, having her life controlled pretty much for the most of it. But if this didn't happen she would be on the streets, or maybe hurting herself or someone else unintentionally.

+1 to all of this.
If Britney is a florid schizophrenic — and we don’t know this but it is at least possible— she could be exactly as described above.


And if that’s they case PP is 100% right: what we are likely to see over the next few years will be horrible. Britney off her meds. Britney perhaps having and neglecting kids. Britney on the streets. Britney committed.

I’m not saying we’re sure she’s severely mentally ill. I’m saying most posters here have no experience with the truly severely mentally ill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it legal to force sterilize someone?

Brittany is not sterilized and yes it's legal to make medical decisions for someone who can not.

Might I chime in here even though i'm sure many people might not like what I have to say, and of course i might be totally wrong because i don't know Brittany and he actual medical condition. None of us can know.

My mom is seriously mentally ill. I feel if you don't know someone with mental illness it's hard to understand or relate to things that seem uncalled for or inhumane.

Severely mentally ill people can not care for themselves or others. Many have anosognosia where they are in denial or don't know that they are ill. My mom has anosognosia she is 64 years old and for my entire life of 37 years she has been been trying to convince everyone around her that she is fine. She believes that she is fine and the world is out to get her. It brings her such agony and distress. She 100% believes she is fine and everything is against her and necessary. She had been in a conservatorship under her mother for 36 years.

With medication she can be more functional. However with anosognosia the sufferer doesn't think there is anything wrong with them and it's a cycle of fighting for freedom, obtaining it, then not caring for themself and going off their meds and then ending up in a terrible state back in a mental facility on heavy drugs like Lithium and then released and so on. My mom managed to get her freedom in my lifetime 6x. It's all she ever talks about and when she has it, it becomes a quick downward spiral every single time. At times she can be very convincing. She can not be on her own. Mental illness can not be cured, and she will never get better, and she will never have the freedom she desires. When she is on her own she is a danger to herself and others around her.

This is sadly her life.

There were times when she wanted more kids and all of that and she was not allowed to because she could not care for me and she could not care for herself. She left me unattended, and would put my life directly in danger many times. Sometimes she was violent, sometimes she was neglectful, and sometimes she was delusional.

Not allowing Brittany to have kids might be in the interest of the kid that she could not take care of. with someone in the public eye like Brittany it would just be such a scandal and such medical negligence to put her on something as strong as lithium if she didn't need it, to take custody of her children away, and etc.

But again what do we know. Maybe it is all one big scandal.

Maybe her dad is taking advantage of the situation how can we know, but it's important to keep in mind that there might be more to the situation than we know.

Even if she isn't being mishandled I feel very badly for her. I know that my mom suffers everyday thinking the world is against her, being forced on meds she doesn't want and thinks she doesn't need, having her life controlled pretty much for the most of it. But if this didn't happen she would be on the streets, or maybe hurting herself or someone else unintentionally.

[phone] people have no idea what severe mental illness looks like or the steps families go through to keep someone safe from themselves. To the outside world the person looks normal or not that bad but to the loved ones who witness it, it’s truly heartbreaking. I don’t know Brittanys situation but what you’ve articulated is very similar to our family’s experience.

I’m also in this camp, with 3 decades of experience under my belt working with mentally ill people ranging from highly functional to barely functional. My concerns about Britney were raised in reading the transcript of her call with the judge and I assume hearing it would only confirm my suspicions. Her thinking is erratic and it’s very easy to see the holes in her narrative where EVERYONE is against her, from therapists to doctors to lawyers to all her whole family to all the members of her performance team - how do people not see that this isn’t normal thinking?

I worry she has a boyfriend who is just itching to help her spend her fortune into nothing on drugs and a wastrel lifestyle, where she was heading before the conservatorship began. If I was that judge, I would remove dad and put a whole new team in place, issue orders that Britney doesn’t have to work anymore and can get her IUD out and have a baby and get married (with reasonable prenup in place) and have an increased allowance but not unfettered access to her entire fortune. Then she where she is in a year. I suspect she’ll still assert that everyone is against her and at this point she might also have crippling PPD on top of her other mental health issues because women with serious mental illness are at much greater risk of such.

Honestly, if I was her age and had her diagnoses (lithium is only prescribed for serious mental illness such as bipolar depression) and I already had two children, I wouldn’t be jumping at the bit to roll the dice on bringing another kid into the world. The inheritability of bipolar is still a matter of some scientific debate, but the repeated occurrence in families has a great deal of anecdotal evidence establishing that if one parent has bipolar a child has a 10% chance of having bipolar themselves. That’s a high risk for a crippling illness.

I feel sorry for Britney. This conservatorship definitely needs reviewing but I don’t doubt the basis for it was legitimate, and she’s apparently so impaired it took her 13 years to grasp that she has the power to request it be dismissed - I don’t believe for a second that her lawyer hasn’t been telling her that, I think she’s just resisting all the harsh realities about how she has to be evaluated to establish her competency.

People who think they’re championing Britney - I think you aren’t grasping that without her fortune she’d just as likely end up vagrant on skid row as the many folks with serious mental illness who are there already. And if she gets unfettered access to her entire fortune and doesn’t kill herself with drugs, it’s entirely possible that her boyfriend and other bad influences will help her into bankruptcy and she ends up there anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to her Instagram and watched a couple of her videos where she is “spinning” and than another video where she is answering a question. I am not an American so I cannot be really 100% sure but her way of talking and body movement is very off. It is like she has an intellectual disability or something.

I always had the impression that she was intellectually disabled (I'm sorry if that's not the current correct terminology), and that everyone tried to cover it up by controlling everything she did. Not unlike the rumors about Beyonce being illiterate and essentially a puppet/money-making machine.

+1. The Beyoncé rumors are false. But I think Britney maybe really just isn’t very smart and has mental illness/challenges. But that describes like nearly a quarter of the American population! We still let most of them make their own decisions.

Gently, you’re a prime example of someone who is unfamiliar with severe mental illness.

Schizophrenia is not the same as anxiety and depression. Which are bad. But see PP above on her mom. Schizophrenics will often die on the streets without some level of care pushed on them.

[Anonymous]

Also remember that people say that bipolar is the rich person’s version of schizophrenia. Docs may be less likely to diagnose schizophrenia in someone like Britney.

[Anonymous]

And +1 to 09:04. I agree the transcript shows disordered thinking. I truly do not understand how so many people all over the Internet see this as some sort of smoking gun revealing that she’s fine.

Just the fact that her first goal is to resist evaluation is odd.

And PP if you listen to the audio you’ll hear some pressure of speech.

I feel bad for Britney and I feel like her well meaning fans are going to leave her homeless and dying on the street.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it legal to force sterilize someone?

Brittany is not sterilized and yes it's legal to make medical decisions for someone who can not.

Might I chime in here even though i'm sure many people might not like what I have to say, and of course i might be totally wrong because i don't know Brittany and he actual medical condition. None of us can know.

My mom is seriously mentally ill. I feel if you don't know someone with mental illness it's hard to understand or relate to things that seem uncalled for or inhumane.

Severely mentally ill people can not care for themselves or others. Many have anosognosia where they are in denial or don't know that they are ill. My mom has anosognosia she is 64 years old and for my entire life of 37 years she has been been trying to convince everyone around her that she is fine. She believes that she is fine and the world is out to get her. It brings her such agony and distress. She 100% believes she is fine and everything is against her and necessary. She had been in a conservatorship under her mother for 36 years.

With medication she can be more functional. However with anosognosia the sufferer doesn't think there is anything wrong with them and it's a cycle of fighting for freedom, obtaining it, then not caring for themself and going off their meds and then ending up in a terrible state back in a mental facility on heavy drugs like Lithium and then released and so on. My mom managed to get her freedom in my lifetime 6x. It's all she ever talks about and when she has it, it becomes a quick downward spiral every single time. At times she can be very convincing. She can not be on her own. Mental illness can not be cured, and she will never get better, and she will never have the freedom she desires. When she is on her own she is a danger to herself and others around her.

This is sadly her life.

There were times when she wanted more kids and all of that and she was not allowed to because she could not care for me and she could not care for herself. She left me unattended, and would put my life directly in danger many times. Sometimes she was violent, sometimes she was neglectful, and sometimes she was delusional.

Not allowing Brittany to have kids might be in the interest of the kid that she could not take care of. with someone in the public eye like Brittany it would just be such a scandal and such medical negligence to put her on something as strong as lithium if she didn't need it, to take custody of her children away, and etc.

But again what do we know. Maybe it is all one big scandal.

Maybe her dad is taking advantage of the situation how can we know, but it's important to keep in mind that there might be more to the situation than we know.

Even if she isn't being mishandled I feel very badly for her. I know that my mom suffers everyday thinking the world is against her, being forced on meds she doesn't want and thinks she doesn't need, having her life controlled pretty much for the most of it. But if this didn't happen she would be on the streets, or maybe hurting herself or someone else unintentionally.

[phone] people have no idea what severe mental illness looks like or the steps families go through to keep someone safe from themselves. To the outside world the person looks normal or not that bad but to the loved ones who witness it, it’s truly heartbreaking. I don’t know Brittanys situation but what you’ve articulated is very similar to our family’s experience.

Mental illness is not incurable. You may think that, but you are wrong.

[Anonymous]

She clearly has serious mental health issues, and needs care but the current people in charge of her are just taking advantage of her. These people do not have her best interest in mind. What has happened to her is horrifying.

[Anonymous]

I think it's really hard to know.

[Anonymous]

I would compare her to Mike Tyson. He had people take advantage but nobody ever moved to place him under a conservator. He certainly has a mental illness and past trauma at the very least. He seems to be doing ok now. It’s sexist to assume that Britney couldn’t find those same supports.

[Anonymous]

I don't understand why they just won't share her diagnosis.

At one point, Britney was saying she wanted the public to know but her father said no because he thought it would harm her reputation.

But if they're going to make all this back and forth public so random strangers can weigh in, just share the diagnosis already.

What on earth does she have that warrants such extreme measures including sterilization?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And +1 to 09:04. I agree the transcript shows disordered thinking. I truly do not understand how so many people all over the Internet see this as some sort of smoking gun revealing that she’s fine.

Just the fact that her first goal is to resist evaluation is odd.

And PP if you listen to the audio you’ll hear some pressure of speech.

I feel bad for Britney and I feel like her well meaning fans are going to leave her homeless and dying on the street.

She has been evaluated constantly for the last 13 years. Do you know how invasive that is? She literally has zero privacy including her own thoughts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And +1 to 09:04. I agree the transcript shows disordered thinking. I truly do not understand how so many people all over the Internet see this as some sort of smoking gun revealing that she’s fine.

Just the fact that her first goal is to resist evaluation is odd.

And PP if you listen to the audio you’ll hear some pressure of speech.

I feel bad for Britney and I feel like her well meaning fans are going to leave her homeless and dying on the street.

She has been evaluated constantly for the last 13 years. Do you know how invasive that is? She literally has zero privacy including her own thoughts.

She is alive, working, vacationing with her children. It’s probably the right time for Jamie to be removed since he’s been ill himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And +1 to 09:04. I agree the transcript shows disordered thinking. I truly do not understand how so many people all over the Internet see this as some sort of smoking gun revealing that she’s fine.

Just the fact that her first goal is to resist evaluation is odd.

And PP if you listen to the audio you’ll hear some pressure of speech.

I feel bad for Britney and I feel like her well meaning fans are going to leave her homeless and dying on the street.

She has been evaluated constantly for the last 13 years. Do you know how invasive that is? She literally has zero privacy including her own thoughts.

If she's a schizophrenic, she will always be monitored because the only way we have to deal with schizophrenia is constant adjustment of medication. People without Britney's financial situation are usually put into long-term hospitals for years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't get how Dad can have her working all those hours, travel, etc. and justify it if she is that mentally ill.

DING DING DING.

This is the part that is beyond effed up. She should not be in the industry at all if she is so sick. If she is well enough to work, she is well enough to make her own decisions. Granted, they do not need to be GOOD decisions!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She sounds so lucid in her testimony, yet her Instagram is SO bizarre.

Having a severe mental illness doesn't mean you won't sound lucid from time to time.