Framing Britney Spears

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get how Dad can have her working all those hours, travel, etc. and justify it if she is that mentally ill.

DING DING DING.

This is the part that is beyond effed up. She should not be in the industry at all if she is so sick. If she is well enough to work, she is well enough to make her own decisions. Granted, they do not need to be GOOD decisions!

Sorry, I disagree.

First, we can’t count on Britney as a reliable narrator because she clearly exhibits paranoia and disordered thinking. Still, her ability to work numerous hours at a time with strict supports in place (she attests to this, a team of nurses monitoring meds intake, schedule, etc.) doesn’t mean she doesn’t have serious mental illness. Regular physical activity is actually great for regulating mood so keeping her in the dancing and singing is a positive - whether she does it for money or not is debatable. Right now she’s chosen not to work and I certainly support her in making that choice for the rest of her life if she wants, but hopefully her personal trainer boyfriend is still working her body out daily because this is enormously therapeutic for persons with mental illness.

Virginia Woolf was also enormously talented - a great deal more so than Britney, I would argue - and productive despite serious mental illness. Then she escaped the structured confines of her life put in place by her adoring husband to protect her from her illness and she killed herself.

Free Britney, sure. Live with the consequences, too.

[Anonymous]

If I was that judge, I would remove dad and put a whole new team in place, issue orders that Britney doesn’t have to work anymore and can get her IUD out and have a baby and get married (with reasonable prenup in place) and have an increased allowance but not unfettered access to her entire fortune. Then she where she is in a year.

Agree.

[Anonymous]

I hear you about not leaping to judgment. I have a mentally ill child who is now over 18 and feel there really should be a legitimate and possible way for family to step in to stop a train wreck.

Brittany did some things back in the day that did seem like they should set off alarm bells. She also seemed to let herself get controlled by opportunistic boyfriends. It did look like she was careening toward a disaster, needed medication, and needed a grown up looking out for her best interests.

Maybe her father didn't do that? I have been surprised by her continuing to perform according to an aggressive schedule. That felt like it could have been exploitative. On the other hand, like my mentally ill child, she did need something constructive to do with her time and I could see an argument in favor of her continuing to practice her chosen craft.

I don't think there should be a movement against conservatorships in general, but maybe one with so much money at stake is a problem?

PP, why do you insist calling her 'Brittany', instead of her actual name 'Britney'? Based on this thread, you obviously have paid enough attention to her to know her name. This is weird.

[Anonymous]

Here’s a link with some information that folks might find helpful - it’s about lithium. https://www.nami.org/About-Mental-Illness/Treatments/Mental-Health-Medications/Types-of-Medication/Lithium

To clarify, this is a powerful mood stabilizer that is used primarily for treating bipolar disorder (aka ‘manic depression’) and schizophrenia. So as you contemplate Britney’s diagnosis, keep this in mind. Further, proper treatment with lithium requires regular blood draws to monitor therapeutic levels in the blood and any side effects that might cause other health issues. Finally, pregnancy while being treated with powerful psychiatric drugs like lithium and others is always a special consideration, so it is not at all unusual that careful use of long term birth control like an IUD or implants would be utilized by ANY woman struggling with bipolar or schizophrenia. None of this is on its face nefarious in any way.

Also noteworthy that following the call to court to speak to the judge yesterday, Britney reaffirmed HER desire to keep all records of the court proceedings and her diagnosis and mental health assessments SEALED from public view. Her father isn’t the only person who wants to keep her mental health details private.

Imagine this is not Britney Spears, but just a regular person. Person calls court and asks it to be public and publicly assails EVERYONE in her life except her personal trainer boyfriend. Person WANTS HER MONEY NOW and WANTS NO MORE RULES! Person doesn’t want to be subject to evaluation by ANYONE to determine if her competency, that was the basis for her original conservatorship, is now restored. Person repeatedly accuses everyone of being out to get her and please Ma’am, set me free!

Honestly I think so many people in the Free Britney camp are well meaning but have no grasp of serious mental illness and how it manifests. I recommend rewatching the episodes of ER that depict the bipolar disorder manifested in Abby’s mother, played beautifully by Sally Field. Bipolar is disabling in many people who don’t stay adherent to a medication and healthy lifestyle regime, and a bipolar person with a drug addiction history set loose on a fortune of millions has the potential to end up very, very ugly. I hope this judge finds the right path forward.

[Anonymous]

An IUD put in against your will is trauma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it legal to force sterilize someone?

Brittany is not sterilized and yes it's legal to make medical decisions for someone who can not.

Might I chime in here even though i'm sure many people might not like what I have to say, and of course i might be totally wrong because i don't know Brittany and he actual medical condition. None of us can know.

My mom is seriously mentally ill. I feel if you don't know someone with mental illness it's hard to understand or relate to things that seem uncalled for or inhumane.

Severely mentally ill people can not care for themselves or others. Many have anosognosia where they are in denial or don't know that they are ill. My mom has anosognosia she is 64 years old and for my entire life of 37 years she has been been trying to convince everyone around her that she is fine. She believes that she is fine and the world is out to get her. It brings her such agony and distress. She 100% believes she is fine and everything is against her and necessary. She had been in a conservatorship under her mother for 36 years.

With medication she can be more functional. However with anosognosia the sufferer doesn't think there is anything wrong with them and it's a cycle of fighting for freedom, obtaining it, then not caring for themself and going off their meds and then ending up in a terrible state back in a mental facility on heavy drugs like Lithium and then released and so on. My mom managed to get her freedom in my lifetime 6x. It's all she ever talks about and when she has it, it becomes a quick downward spiral every single time. At times she can be very convincing. She can not be on her own. Mental illness can not be cured, and she will never get better, and she will never have the freedom she desires. When she is on her own she is a danger to herself and others around her.

This is sadly her life.

There were times when she wanted more kids and all of that and she was not allowed to because she could not care for me and she could not care for herself. She left me unattended, and would put my life directly in danger many times. Sometimes she was violent, sometimes she was neglectful, and sometimes she was delusional.

Not allowing Brittany to have kids might be in the interest of the kid that she could not take care of. with someone in the public eye like Brittany it would just be such a scandal and such medical negligence to put her on something as strong as lithium if she didn't need it, to take custody of her children away, and etc.

But again what do we know. Maybe it is all one big scandal.

Maybe her dad is taking advantage of the situation how can we know, but it's important to keep in mind that there might be more to the situation than we know.

Even if she isn't being mishandled I feel very badly for her. I know that my mom suffers everyday thinking the world is against her, being forced on meds she doesn't want and thinks she doesn't need, having her life controlled pretty much for the most of it. But if this didn't happen she would be on the streets, or maybe hurting herself or someone else unintentionally.

[phone] people have no idea what severe mental illness looks like or the steps families go through to keep someone safe from themselves. To the outside world the person looks normal or not that bad but to the loved ones who witness it, it’s truly heartbreaking. I don’t know Brittanys situation but what you’ve articulated is very similar to our family’s experience.

Mental illness is not incurable. You may think that, but you are wrong.

And you are misinformed, certain mental illnesses are manageable but in fact incurable and require lifelong treatment and support in place to prevent dangerous outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If I was that judge, I would remove dad and put a whole new team in place, issue orders that Britney doesn’t have to work anymore and can get her IUD out and have a baby and get married (with reasonable prenup in place) and have an increased allowance but not unfettered access to her entire fortune. Then she where she is in a year.

Agree.

This sounds sane

[Anonymous]

Why was Kanye West running for President and Britney is under a conservatorship?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why was Kanye West running for President and Britney is under a conservatorship?

some of these responses indicate how woefully ill informed our country is about mental illness. Do you ask why one cancer patient can work while another’s activities are severely limited?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't get how Dad can have her working all those hours, travel, etc. and justify it if she is that mentally ill.

DING DING DING.

This is the part that is beyond effed up. She should not be in the industry at all if she is so sick. If she is well enough to work, she is well enough to make her own decisions. Granted, they do not need to be GOOD decisions!

Sorry, I disagree.

First, we can’t count on Britney as a reliable narrator because she clearly exhibits paranoia and disordered thinking. Still, her ability to work numerous hours at a time with strict supports in place (she attests to this, a team of nurses monitoring meds intake, schedule, etc.) doesn’t mean she doesn’t have serious mental illness. Regular physical activity is actually great for regulating mood so keeping her in the dancing and singing is a positive - whether she does it for money or not is debatable. Right now she’s chosen not to work and I certainly support her in making that choice for the rest of her life if she wants, but hopefully her personal trainer boyfriend is still working her body out daily because this is enormously therapeutic for persons with mental illness.

Virginia Woolf was also enormously talented - a great deal more so than Britney, I would argue - and productive despite serious mental illness. Then she escaped the structured confines of her life put in place by her adoring husband to protect her from her illness and she killed herself.

Free Britney, sure. Live with the consequences, too.

Well put. I have a bipolar relative and her husband makes huge efforts to keep her stable, monitoring her medications, making sure she gets exercise daily and eats well and sleeps according to a schedule. And the bipolar relative complains all the time about what a controlling person her husband is and how victimized she is, and some people believe her. But when she was left to her own devices, she stopped taking her meds and was having episodes continuously. Like the PP said, you can free Britney, but don't be surprised in a few years if she's run through most of her money on crazy spending and had a couple of really bad episodes because she's engaging in behavior that's not healthy. That's Britney's choice, but the outcome may not be optimal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why was Kanye West running for President and Britney is under a conservatorship?

Nobody cared enough about Kanye to seek a 5150 and/or conservatorship when he clearly needed it, that’s why. Kanye is seriously ill and we have witnessed his mania and seen how disturbed his thinking is and now it’s destroyed his marriage and opportunity to be in his kids’ lives 24/7/365.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s a link with some information that folks might find helpful - it’s about lithium. https://www.nami.org/About-Mental-Illness/Treatments/Mental-Health-Medications/Types-of-Medication/Lithium

To clarify, this is a powerful mood stabilizer that is used primarily for treating bipolar disorder (aka ‘manic depression’) and schizophrenia. So as you contemplate Britney’s diagnosis, keep this in mind. Further, proper treatment with lithium requires regular blood draws to monitor therapeutic levels in the blood and any side effects that might cause other health issues. Finally, pregnancy while being treated with powerful psychiatric drugs like lithium and others is always a special consideration, so it is not at all unusual that careful use of long term birth control like an IUD or implants would be utilized by ANY woman struggling with bipolar or schizophrenia. None of this is on its face nefarious in any way.

Also noteworthy that following the call to court to speak to the judge yesterday, Britney reaffirmed HER desire to keep all records of the court proceedings and her diagnosis and mental health assessments SEALED from public view. Her father isn’t the only person who wants to keep her mental health details private.

Imagine this is not Britney Spears, but just a regular person. Person calls court and asks it to be public and publicly assails EVERYONE in her life except her personal trainer boyfriend. Person WANTS HER MONEY NOW and WANTS NO MORE RULES! Person doesn’t want to be subject to evaluation by ANYONE to determine if her competency, that was the basis for her original conservatorship, is now restored. Person repeatedly accuses everyone of being out to get her and please Ma’am, set me free!

Honestly I think so many people in the Free Britney camp are well meaning but have no grasp of serious mental illness and how it manifests. I recommend rewatching the episodes of ER that depict the bipolar disorder manifested in Abby’s mother, played beautifully by Sally Field. Bipolar is disabling in many people who don’t stay adherent to a medication and healthy lifestyle regime, and a bipolar person with a drug addiction history set loose on a fortune of millions has the potential to end up very, very ugly. I hope this judge finds the right path forward.

Thank you PP, this is a very accurate synopsis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why was Kanye West running for President and Britney is under a conservatorship?

Because the stigma of mental illness coupled with systemic racism in access to mental health care precluded his family from properly addressing it. Plus, his mother is dead. And, he is actually higher functioning than she is.

[Anonymous]

And there are people living successfully with medicated schizophrenia. I am related to one. Never thought we'd get there after years of different meds and instiuttions but then we did. It's not typical but it is possible, especially with the meds that became available starting in the 90s.

Anyways, look into the history of women being institutionalized against their will and you'll find out why it needs to be difficult for families to compel their children to get treatment, let alone enter a conservatorship. This shit should end, no matter the outcome. It's her life to do with as she wishes. If she wants to retire and eat nothing but Cheetos for the rest of her life, that's her right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why was Kanye West running for President and Britney is under a conservatorship?

I thought Kanye's mother was dead? If I'm remembering corectly, that's why. No one who had and sway with him could keep him on track. His wife clearly couldn't. And his run for president was hardly a display of competence.