Pay-to-Play Sport at Private HS employing club coach - what's normal?

[Anonymous]

From: https://www.novabaseballmagazine.com/news/quick-hits-guyers-comeback-begins-in-puerto-rico

Conflicting ‘Conflicts’: While Prince William County Schools has dismissed Colgan coach Mike Colangelo apparently for a conflict of interest regarding his visiting practices at two other county schools to speak about his winter camps, St. John’s (D.C.) has had five players transfer out - four to Northern Virginia schools - due to a documented insistence that they play exclusively with an offseason travel program operated by Cadets coach Mark Gibbs and his brother, Kevin. So on one end of the spectrum, a coach has lost his job due to something viewed by very few as creating any conflict of interest, while another publicly operates with a conflict of interest but remains secure at the helm of one of the metro area’s top programs. And thus we have another example of the many differences between public and private school athletics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From: https://www.novabaseballmagazine.com/news/quick-hits-guyers-comeback-begins-in-puerto-rico

And thus we have another example of the many differences between public and private school athletics.

This irks me. Why should it make a difference whether these coaches/educators are at public or private schools? Regardless of whether kids are going to their local public school or their parents are paying thousands of dollars a year to go to a private, decisions by coaches, teachers, and administrators should be guided by what is in the best interest of the students. What is going on at St Johns is clearly not in the best interest of these students. It sounds like this baseball coach and this soccer coach are in it for themselves, not the kids. Why would a school want to have people like that around coaching and mentoring teenage student athletes? And why do these individuals get into high school coaching? The best coaches and teachers get into it because they really want to make a difference in kids' lives, but these guys clearly just want to line their pockets. Go into private coaching/instruction where athletes come to you voluntarily. If you're good enough at it, your services will be in demand and you'll make a nice living. But by forcing kids to play for you and holding their parents hostage if they want their kids to attend a particular school - that tells me that your not very good at what you do and can't survive without putting a gun to peoples heads. Pathetic.

[Anonymous]

PP here. To follow up on this, how good are the club/travel teams that these coaches run? Do they stand on their own merits?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On a different but related note ... Apparently there was near violence between the SJC and DeMatha football teams IN the parking lot AFTER the game at SJC last Saturday. DCPD was summoned. This is Exhibit B that sportsmanship, fair play, and the true merits of sport have been overshadowed at these and other local schools. Exhibit A is the behavior complained about in this thread.

Violence is nothing new when it comes to sports at SJC. Don't know if it's going on but the baseball team used to have hazing tradition where the upperclass players used to force new guys to do "fight club" in the locker room. Not as bad as the movie, but it got pretty violent. They would match a couple of the younger guys up and they would smack the crap out of each other surrounded by a bunch of screaming cheering players. I think everyone went through it by the time they were on varsity. I didn't think much of it at the time, but I guess it was pretty stupid.

Ridiculous and disgraceful (I played baseball into college and for 20 yrs after)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From: https://www.novabaseballmagazine.com/news/quick-hits-guyers-comeback-begins-in-puerto-rico

And thus we have another example of the many differences between public and private school athletics.

This irks me. Why should it make a difference whether these coaches/educators are at public or private schools? Regardless of whether kids are going to their local public school or their parents are paying thousands of dollars a year to go to a private, decisions by coaches, teachers, and administrators should be guided by what is in the best interest of the students. What is going on at St Johns is clearly not in the best interest of these students. It sounds like this baseball coach and this soccer coach are in it for themselves, not the kids. Why would a school want to have people like that around coaching and mentoring teenage student athletes? And why do these individuals get into high school coaching? The best coaches and teachers get into it because they really want to make a difference in kids' lives, but these guys clearly just want to line their pockets. Go into private coaching/instruction where athletes come to you voluntarily. If you're good enough at it, your services will be in demand and you'll make a nice living. But by forcing kids to play for you and holding their parents hostage if they want their kids to attend a particular school - that tells me that your not very good at what you do and can't survive without putting a gun to peoples heads. Pathetic.

Um ... in public schools, taxpayer money pays the greedy coaches.

Big difference. I don’t care in the same way if they’re doing their unseemly stuff with private - not public - funds. They’re scum either way but one is worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here. To follow up on this, how good are the club/travel teams that these coaches run? Do they stand on their own merits?

I can only speak to soccer - that club is a joke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From: https://www.novabaseballmagazine.com/news/quick-hits-guyers-comeback-begins-in-puerto-rico

And thus we have another example of the many differences between public and private school athletics.

This irks me. Why should it make a difference whether these coaches/educators are at public or private schools? Regardless of whether kids are going to their local public school or their parents are paying thousands of dollars a year to go to a private, decisions by coaches, teachers, and administrators should be guided by what is in the best interest of the students. What is going on at St Johns is clearly not in the best interest of these students. It sounds like this baseball coach and this soccer coach are in it for themselves, not the kids. Why would a school want to have people like that around coaching and mentoring teenage student athletes? And why do these individuals get into high school coaching? The best coaches and teachers get into it because they really want to make a difference in kids' lives, but these guys clearly just want to line their pockets. Go into private coaching/instruction where athletes come to you voluntarily. If you're good enough at it, your services will be in demand and you'll make a nice living. But by forcing kids to play for you and holding their parents hostage if they want their kids to attend a particular school - that tells me that your not very good at what you do and can't survive without putting a gun to peoples heads. Pathetic.

Um ... in public schools, taxpayer money pays the greedy coaches.

Big difference. I don’t care in the same way if they’re doing their unseemly stuff with private - not public - funds. They’re scum either way but one is worse.

Private schools benefit from taxpayer funds also—among other things from the tax exemption they receive due to their not-for-profit status. If they are using the school as a vehicle to personally profit through club programs, then that is a violation of their not-for-profit status and the public trust.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if this affected Application rates from athletes in these sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From: https://www.novabaseballmagazine.com/news/quick-hits-guyers-comeback-begins-in-puerto-rico

And thus we have another example of the many differences between public and private school athletics.

This irks me...Pathetic.

Um ... in public schools, taxpayer money pays the greedy coaches.

Big difference. I don’t care in the same way if they’re doing their unseemly stuff with private - not public - funds. They’re scum either way but one is worse.

Private schools benefit from taxpayer funds also—among other things from the tax exemption they receive due to their not-for-profit status. If they are using the school as a vehicle to personally profit through club programs, then that is a violation of their not-for-profit status and the public trust.

I agree with this point. All the Catholic high schools are part of ADW and I haven't seen a separate set of financial statements for individual schools. Religious organizations don't have to disclose much to anybody. I think in this case the athletic department takes advantage of the inherent lack of transparency. Running separate for profit programs under the auspices of the religious umbrella is not ethical in my opinion, and those programs should be separated so they can be taxed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From: https://www.novabaseballmagazine.com/news/quick-hits-guyers-comeback-begins-in-puerto-rico

And thus we have another example of the many differences between public and private school athletics.

This irks me...Pathetic.

Um ... in public schools, taxpayer money pays the greedy coaches.

Big difference. I don’t care in the same way if they’re doing their unseemly stuff with private - not public - funds. They’re scum either way but one is worse.

Private schools benefit from taxpayer funds also—among other things from the tax exemption they receive due to their not-for-profit status. If they are using the school as a vehicle to personally profit through club programs, then that is a violation of their not-for-profit status and the public trust.

I agree with this point. All the Catholic high schools are part of ADW and I haven't seen a separate set of financial statements for individual schools. Religious organizations don't have to disclose much to anybody. I think in this case the athletic department takes advantage of the inherent lack of transparency. Running separate for profit programs under the auspices of the religious umbrella is not ethical in my opinion, and those programs should be separated so they can be taxed.

This is a great post. Having some religious affiliation (any) means they don’t have to file an annual tax return. It’s a Petri dish for fraud. And it means no accountability. For example, wcac rules prohibit athletic scholarships, but St. John’s, DeMatha and Gonzaga - the conference big boys - give plenty of them, many full. The smaller schools in the conference can’t compete consistently. It’s a shame and wcac is a joke - their rules mean nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From: https://www.novabaseballmagazine.com/news/quick-hits-guyers-comeback-begins-in-puerto-rico

And thus we have another example of the many differences between public and private school athletics.

This irks me...Pathetic.

Um ... in public schools, taxpayer money pays the greedy coaches.

Big difference. I don’t care in the same way if they’re doing their unseemly stuff with private - not public - funds. They’re scum either way but one is worse.

Private schools benefit from taxpayer funds also—among other things from the tax exemption they receive due to their not-for-profit status. If they are using the school as a vehicle to personally profit through club programs, then that is a violation of their not-for-profit status and the public trust.

I agree with this point. All the Catholic high schools are part of ADW and I haven't seen a separate set of financial statements for individual schools. Religious organizations don't have to disclose much to anybody. I think in this case the athletic department takes advantage of the inherent lack of transparency. Running separate for profit programs under the auspices of the religious umbrella is not ethical in my opinion, and those programs should be separated so they can be taxed.

This is a great post. Having some religious affiliation (any) means they don’t have to file an annual tax return. It’s a Petri dish for fraud. And it means no accountability. For example, wcac rules prohibit athletic scholarships, but St. John’s, DeMatha and Gonzaga - the conference big boys - give plenty of them, many full. The smaller schools in the conference can’t compete consistently. It’s a shame and wcac is a joke - their rules mean nothing.

More than not having to file an annual tax return, churches do not even have to file information returns. Information returns (990s) are publicly available and required for non-profit organizations (not churches) and they provide a lot of detailed information. ADW and it's schools publish some information but it's not detailed and usually focuses on fundraising. It's impossible to know what goes on with their operations. Only God knows.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From: https://www.novabaseballmagazine.com/news/quick-hits-guyers-comeback-begins-in-puerto-rico

And thus we have another example of the many differences between public and private school athletics.

This irks me...Pathetic.

Um ... in public schools, taxpayer money pays the greedy coaches.

Big difference. I don’t care in the same way if they’re doing their unseemly stuff with private - not public - funds. They’re scum either way but one is worse.

Private schools benefit from taxpayer funds also—among other things from the tax exemption they receive due to their not-for-profit status. If they are using the school as a vehicle to personally profit through club programs, then that is a violation of their not-for-profit status and the public trust.

I agree with this point. All the Catholic high schools are part of ADW and I haven't seen a separate set of financial statements for individual schools. Religious organizations don't have to disclose much to anybody. I think in this case the athletic department takes advantage of the inherent lack of transparency. Running separate for profit programs under the auspices of the religious umbrella is not ethical in my opinion, and those programs should be separated so they can be taxed.

This is a great post. Having some religious affiliation (any) means they don’t have to file an annual tax return. It’s a Petri dish for fraud. And it means no accountability. For example, wcac rules prohibit athletic scholarships, but St. John’s, DeMatha and Gonzaga - the conference big boys - give plenty of them, many full. The smaller schools in the conference can’t compete consistently. It’s a shame and wcac is a joke - their rules mean nothing.

More than not having to file an annual tax return, churches do not even have to file information returns. Information returns (990s) are publicly available and required for non-profit organizations (not churches) and they provide a lot of detailed information. ADW and it's schools publish some information but it's not detailed and usually focuses on fundraising. It's impossible to know what goes on with their operations. Only God knows.

That seems crazy that a school can avoid financial disclosures, information returns, etc. simply because they have some religious affiliation. So while St. Johns or Gonzaga or DeMatha can avoid any sort of transparency, schools like Bullis, Flint Hill, Potomac, etc. cannot? Why would the IRS (and the public) care about how exempt schools in the latter group use their funds, etc. but not those in the former group? And if all of this is going on at St Johns the way posters have said, how would the IRS even find out about it if they have no disclosure requirements? Religious or not, it sounds like what they're doing is illegal. Presumably, if Bullis, Potomac or Flint Hill was doing what St Johns is doing, the IRS would be aware. How can it be set up in a way where St Johns is allowed to get away with it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A bunch of SJC baseball players live in our area and we’re hearing there could be some legal fallout coming for the baseball program. Not sure what that is but I’ve heard a total of 5 players, all division 1 prospects, have now transferred out this year, with 4 of those coming this month. I have a lot of questions that need answers before I’d send our sons there.

If your son’s goal is to win high school championships and have something to keep him occupied with the same group of kids all year round for 4 straight years, then SJC may be a good choice. If your son wants to play beyond high school, then you’d be wise to look elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. To follow up on this, how good are the club/travel teams that these coaches run? Do they stand on their own merits?

I can only speak to soccer - that club is a joke.

How? I thought people loved it but maybe that's just a few parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. To follow up on this, how good are the club/travel teams that these coaches run? Do they stand on their own merits?

I can only speak to soccer - that club is a joke.

How? I thought people loved it but maybe that's just a few parents.

Some teams have won the state cup, other teams have a hard time getting enough boys to show up for games.

Some years have a good core group of players and parents and they are very happy as they get all the attention from Sal and the best practice times, playing times, etc. But other years the kids are basically just 'fodder' that Sal could care less about and the teams are a mish-mash of kids from various ages trying to scrape together enough players for the games. Response from the parents depends on which year you are--if you are in a group that is treated well, "Sal is the best". If you are not and see what's going on all over the club, well then you have kind of a different view.