WaPo takes deep dive into DCPS residency fraud

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:have to wonder who much the waitlists for these schools would shrink if the dc government made any effort to prevent its own employees from cheating the system.

Doubt it. The best neighborhood schools are overenrolled, and if an IB student drops out, there isn't an empty seat. It just becomes less overcrowded.

earlier in the discussion there was a specific example of a student at School Without Walls. I know of a student at McKinley Tech. Both of these schools have waitlists.

Let's pretend that at every Tier 1 school there is 1 child per grade that is residency fraud. This adds up and makes a difference at the macro level.

With the feeder path guarantee, this does add up. Because no one in power actually wants to fix this, for all we know the overcrowding in the Wilson feeder schools - and Brent and Maury - could be eliminated if we eliminated the fraud.

Can we please do that before we talk any more about either ending OOB rights for children who live in the city legitimately or building some new school in ward 3?

I'm against this as much as anyone. However are you really suggesting like 10%+ of the students in the Wilson feeders, Brent, and Maury are from MD? The overcrowding at a handfull of schools and the out of city people cheating the system are largely two separate issues.

Yes, I think it's 5-10%.

That is one or two kids per class. That does not change much if anything.

I’d love it if there were 2 fewer kids in my kids class. Love it. His teacher would love it even more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the deal - all you need is a few well publicized stories on Families having to pay - and implication to students and people will start to think twice about it.

It's well publicized that some people who commit crimes go to jail for a long time, but there's still plenty of crime - that's because criminals don't expect to get caught. Research consistently finds that "The certainty of being caught is a vastly more powerful deterrent than the punishment." (https://nij.gov/five-things/pages/deterrence.aspx)

An out-of-district parent who knows of dozens of people who don't pay anything and a few who pay a lot, they are unlikely to be deterred. So while people who are caught shouldn't be let off the hook, the focus should be on removing out-of-district families.

Here's the other way to catch the scammers. Right now, many schools have a financial incentive not to worry about residency fraud. DC should make clear that if schools report fraud and expel scammers, that they will get to keep their funding and even get a bonus for each fraud case they uncover. On the other hand, if the fraud is uncovered by OSSE, then the school should lose 150% of the scammer's per pupil funding allotment. That will focus the principals on the problem damn quick.

You have this backwards. OSSE should do ALL of the residency verification and the schools should do none. Take it out of individual schools' hands just like they did with the lottery. It's either all above board or OSSE owns the failures.

Yeah what is one registrar or clerk supposed to do in a school, they are in the office and copy the docs, if they look fraudulent they don't register. These folks are not stupid they are using others addresses, fake docs, and fake letters from grandma!

Precisely -- the school registrars are not forensic analysts nor do they have any specialization in fraud. If it's OSSE they can resource this function appropriately and maintain access to central DC data - at least name and address of tax filers, medicaid/SNAP/tanf recipients . That would be a start. make that the baseline and require a higher bar for anyone who can't/won't meet it. There will certainly be exceptions that require a deeper dive, but treat the exceptions as exceptional rather than being lax as the baseline for enforcement.

One other potential snag -- a student could be able to verify residency in the short term and move before or during the school year. Mobility is a challenge, and those with greater housing instability will also likely have more fluid living arrangements. But the bigger issue is middle class out of state residents exploiting loopholes for personal gain and not dealing with legitimate residents suffering from housing instability

[Anonymous]

"One other potential snag -- a student could be able to verify residency in the short term and move before or during the school year. Mobility is a challenge, and those with greater housing instability will also likely have more fluid living arrangements. But the bigger issue is middle class out of state residents exploiting loopholes for personal gain and not dealing with legitimate residents suffering from housing instability "

The moving midyear is a wash. It is the intentional getting a short term rental to keep school feeder path - but that is a different issue.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately, I don't see anything substantial happening to curb residency fraud. DCPS is too vested in increasing its enrollment numbers. The Mayor also needs DCPS to look good.
Principals are given unachievable targets of enrollment and basically told that their job is on the line if they don't meet the goals. What else is a principal supposed to do but try to look the other way when parents show up with questionable documents. They need bodies in the school, they don't really care where the kids are coming from. The system is set up to fail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:have to wonder who much the waitlists for these schools would shrink if the dc government made any effort to prevent its own employees from cheating the system.

Doubt it. The best neighborhood schools are overenrolled, and if an IB student drops out, there isn't an empty seat. It just becomes less overcrowded.

earlier in the discussion there was a specific example of a student at School Without Walls. I know of a student at McKinley Tech. Both of these schools have waitlists.

Let's pretend that at every Tier 1 school there is 1 child per grade that is residency fraud. This adds up and makes a difference at the macro level.

With the feeder path guarantee, this does add up. Because no one in power actually wants to fix this, for all we know the overcrowding in the Wilson feeder schools - and Brent and Maury - could be eliminated if we eliminated the fraud.

Can we please do that before we talk any more about either ending OOB rights for children who live in the city legitimately or building some new school in ward 3?

I'm against this as much as anyone. However are you really suggesting like 10%+ of the students in the Wilson feeders, Brent, and Maury are from MD? The overcrowding at a handfull of schools and the out of city people cheating the system are largely two separate issues.

Yes, I think it's 5-10%.

Where are you getting these numbers? Those are neighborhood schools. Everybody knows everybody. I know people at a lot of these schools. They don't seem to think there are residency cheaters in every class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:have to wonder who much the waitlists for these schools would shrink if the dc government made any effort to prevent its own employees from cheating the system.

Doubt it. The best neighborhood schools are overenrolled, and if an IB student drops out, there isn't an empty seat. It just becomes less overcrowded.

earlier in the discussion there was a specific example of a student at School Without Walls. I know of a student at McKinley Tech. Both of these schools have waitlists.

Let's pretend that at every Tier 1 school there is 1 child per grade that is residency fraud. This adds up and makes a difference at the macro level.

With the feeder path guarantee, this does add up. Because no one in power actually wants to fix this, for all we know the overcrowding in the Wilson feeder schools - and Brent and Maury - could be eliminated if we eliminated the fraud.

Can we please do that before we talk any more about either ending OOB rights for children who live in the city legitimately or building some new school in ward 3?

I'm against this as much as anyone. However are you really suggesting like 10%+ of the students in the Wilson feeders, Brent, and Maury are from MD? The overcrowding at a handfull of schools and the out of city people cheating the system are largely two separate issues.

Yes, I think it's 5-10%.

Where are you getting these numbers? Those are neighborhood schools. Everybody knows everybody. I know people at a lot of these schools. They don't seem to think there are residency cheaters in every class.

and everyone knows a whole bunch of kids who live out of boundary if you actually talk to the kids. In Roosevelt, CHEC, Coolidge many of the ESL students now live in MD, Ellington well we already know about that, NW many out of boundary. students in the younger grades. Charters well according to folks on these boards ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:have to wonder who much the waitlists for these schools would shrink if the dc government made any effort to prevent its own employees from cheating the system.

Doubt it. The best neighborhood schools are overenrolled, and if an IB student drops out, there isn't an empty seat. It just becomes less overcrowded.

earlier in the discussion there was a specific example of a student at School Without Walls. I know of a student at McKinley Tech. Both of these schools have waitlists.

Let's pretend that at every Tier 1 school there is 1 child per grade that is residency fraud. This adds up and makes a difference at the macro level.

With the feeder path guarantee, this does add up. Because no one in power actually wants to fix this, for all we know the overcrowding in the Wilson feeder schools - and Brent and Maury - could be eliminated if we eliminated the fraud.

Can we please do that before we talk any more about either ending OOB rights for children who live in the city legitimately or building some new school in ward 3?

I'm against this as much as anyone. However are you really suggesting like 10%+ of the students in the Wilson feeders, Brent, and Maury are from MD? The overcrowding at a handfull of schools and the out of city people cheating the system are largely two separate issues.

Yes, I think it's 5-10%.

Where are you getting these numbers? Those are neighborhood schools. Everybody knows everybody. I know people at a lot of these schools. They don't seem to think there are residency cheaters in every class.

and everyone knows a whole bunch of kids who live out of boundary if you actually talk to the kids. In Roosevelt, CHEC, Coolidge many of the ESL students now live in MD, Ellington well we already know about that, NW many out of boundary. students in the younger grades. Charters well according to folks on these boards ...

Hardy, Shepherd, SWW

[Anonymous]

and everyone knows a whole bunch of kids who live out of boundary if you actually talk to the kids. In Roosevelt, CHEC, Coolidge many of the ESL students now live in MD, Ellington well we already know about that, NW many out of boundary. students in the younger grades. Charters well according to folks on these boards ...

This brings up an great point. Since the adults don’t seem to want to do something, let’s talk to the kids. Everyone knows who the cheaters are. Ask your kids and report those names to the tip line. I’ve also considered getting a group together in a meet-up or something where we split up and take photos at each school during drop off and pickup of all cars with Maryland plates. You could link plates to names/addresses and then do property tax search. Could also involve our own kids in this by having them name names and then we do a tax search of their parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

and everyone knows a whole bunch of kids who live out of boundary if you actually talk to the kids. In Roosevelt, CHEC, Coolidge many of the ESL students now live in MD, Ellington well we already know about that, NW many out of boundary. students in the younger grades. Charters well according to folks on these boards ...

This brings up an great point. Since the adults don’t seem to want to do something, let’s talk to the kids. Everyone knows who the cheaters are. Ask your kids and report those names to the tip line. I’ve also considered getting a group together in a meet-up or something where we split up and take photos at each school during drop off and pickup of all cars with Maryland plates. You could link plates to names/addresses and then do property tax search. Could also involve our own kids in this by having them name names and then we do a tax search of their parents.

You have got to be kidding. Asking kids to rat out their friends is going too far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

and everyone knows a whole bunch of kids who live out of boundary if you actually talk to the kids. In Roosevelt, CHEC, Coolidge many of the ESL students now live in MD, Ellington well we already know about that, NW many out of boundary. students in the younger grades. Charters well according to folks on these boards ...

This brings up an great point. Since the adults don’t seem to want to do something, let’s talk to the kids. Everyone knows who the cheaters are. Ask your kids and report those names to the tip line. I’ve also considered getting a group together in a meet-up or something where we split up and take photos at each school during drop off and pickup of all cars with Maryland plates. You could link plates to names/addresses and then do property tax search. Could also involve our own kids in this by having them name names and then we do a tax search of their parents.

LOL too funny but you know some folks are already considering this ... slow your roll, it's a joke!!!

[Anonymous]

I said it earlier.

Have the DC treasurer send each school a list of families with dependents who pay taxes in the boundary.

Check any other enrollees docs very very closely.

Done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I said it earlier.

Have the DC treasurer send each school a list of families with dependents who pay taxes in the boundary.

Check any other enrollees docs very very closely.

Done.

I don’t trust DC govt to do this! Heck, the treasurer probably lives in Greenbelt

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

and everyone knows a whole bunch of kids who live out of boundary if you actually talk to the kids. In Roosevelt, CHEC, Coolidge many of the ESL students now live in MD, Ellington well we already know about that, NW many out of boundary. students in the younger grades. Charters well according to folks on these boards ...

This brings up an great point. Since the adults don’t seem to want to do something, let’s talk to the kids. Everyone knows who the cheaters are. Ask your kids and report those names to the tip line. I’ve also considered getting a group together in a meet-up or something where we split up and take photos at each school during drop off and pickup of all cars with Maryland plates. You could link plates to names/addresses and then do property tax search. Could also involve our own kids in this by having them name names and then we do a tax search of their parents.

You have got to be kidding. Asking kids to rat out their friends is going too far.

I just read this in the Wilson thread, but it bears repeating here:

Anonymous wrote:I know snitches get stitches and all that.

But expel these kids if they don't cough up a name.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

and everyone knows a whole bunch of kids who live out of boundary if you actually talk to the kids. In Roosevelt, CHEC, Coolidge many of the ESL students now live in MD, Ellington well we already know about that, NW many out of boundary. students in the younger grades. Charters well according to folks on these boards ...

This brings up an great point. Since the adults don’t seem to want to do something, let’s talk to the kids. Everyone knows who the cheaters are. Ask your kids and report those names to the tip line. I’ve also considered getting a group together in a meet-up or something where we split up and take photos at each school during drop off and pickup of all cars with Maryland plates. You could link plates to names/addresses and then do property tax search. Could also involve our own kids in this by having them name names and then we do a tax search of their parents.

You have got to be kidding. Asking kids to rat out their friends is going too far.

I don't think so. Their "friends" and those friends' families are stealing from their fellow students, as well as DC students who don't have a chance to attend that school -- and from the taxpayers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the deal - all you need is a few well publicized stories on Families having to pay - and implication to students and people will start to think twice about it.

It's well publicized that some people who commit crimes go to jail for a long time, but there's still plenty of crime - that's because criminals don't expect to get caught. Research consistently finds that "The certainty of being caught is a vastly more powerful deterrent than the punishment." (https://nij.gov/five-things/pages/deterrence.aspx)

An out-of-district parent who knows of dozens of people who don't pay anything and a few who pay a lot, they are unlikely to be deterred. So while people who are caught shouldn't be let off the hook, the focus should be on removing out-of-district families.

Here's the other way to catch the scammers. Right now, many schools have a financial incentive not to worry about residency fraud. DC should make clear that if schools report fraud and expel scammers, that they will get to keep their funding and even get a bonus for each fraud case they uncover. On the other hand, if the fraud is uncovered by OSSE, then the school should lose 150% of the scammer's per pupil funding allotment. That will focus the principals on the problem damn quick.

You have this backwards. OSSE should do ALL of the residency verification and the schools should do none. Take it out of individual schools' hands just like they did with the lottery. It's either all above board or OSSE owns the failures.

Yeah what is one registrar or clerk supposed to do in a school, they are in the office and copy the docs, if they look fraudulent they don't register. These folks are not stupid they are using others addresses, fake docs, and fake letters from grandma!

It's the school administrators, teachers and employees who know that the kids don't live in DC. Sometimes the students will say something. Other times, school employees see the kids getting out of and into MD cars every day, and it's clear that the driver isn't a grandparent or a caregiver.