DA vs ECNL vs everything else

[Anonymous]

So the coaches will also be the same as well, correct?

[Anonymous]

Arlington beats BRYC, Loudoun, VDA, McLean to an eventual full boys and girls DA, and all this board has is rehash and clinging on? Move on. You ECNL fanboys just sit tight and enjoy your league and club that plays in it. No one is telling you different. Just do it. Will be interesting though to see if you show up at the DA ID sessions, because some of you already did. WS has Pugh. They have won.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What evidence supports the belief that ECNL is beneath Girls DA? The Girls DA is sound in theory but the reality in Year 1 is that the best players are not there yet. PP keep referring to ECNL as 2nd class. Is that perception - Boys DA is strong so by default Girls DA is also strong- or is that reality???

do your due diligence. ecnl coaches know da will win. do you have any friends that coach ecnl and will tell u the truth over a beer? u really think ECNL will be #1 and da #2??? laughable. Bwahhh ha ha ha. look around the US. u r late to this debate and a rabble rouser and just are pissed off.

Its funny to me the idea that leagues "win". Our players need to win by developing to college level. Ultimately our UWSNT needs to win.
It is naive to think that there is one league formula that has enough coverage in this country to grow all of our players to their potential. I like the fact that there are two league formulas. Even at that, there are vast segments of the country that neither ECNL or DA reaches. Nobody wins if one league formula squashes out all other options.
Horses for courses, vive la difference. Find the best development environment for your player, and accept the fact that there will always be a better team, somewhere, somehow.... maybe even from another league.

This is 100% correct. Very well said. Many DA parents on this board have spent their time bashing ECNL, CCL etc. Now that ASA has the DA, we turn on them as not being worthy etc. Enough. This is what is wrong with soccer today in NOVA. Everyone needs to rise above this. ECNL has some darn good teams. Yes, we did pull over ECNL teams to start the DA. DA should become a strong force in girls soccer. But, after 1 year we are not superior - and no we don't dominate the landscape. We may never totally dominate it. What do we really need? Take the best players and feed them in the US Training Center and extend it beyond U15. If they are DA, ECNL, CCL, ODSL, WAGS - it does not matter. Purposely have DA and ECNL teams play each other on a regular basis - how do we say DA is dominant when we don't play the other "top" league or leagues? It would be good for everyone - including colleges and the USWNT. So, kudos to ASA for getting DA. Kudos to Loudoun, BYRC, Spirit, FCV, etc. for their successes. If ANYONE on this board has TRULY had a kid who has played at relatively competitive level at Jefferson Cup (or CASL etc), State or Regional ODP, State Cups, USTC, PDP, ECNL or now the newly minted DA - you know that there are darn good kids on many teams - even the teams we think we are so superior to. Show lets all some respect and knock it off.

Reaponding to multiple PPs. Correct, leagues don’t develop players by default. Correct, clubs do, but rarely one club over one player’s career. If ECNL and DA can both remain elite enough to attract college scouts more than any other teams, both leagues win. But college soccer is mot good soccer by global standards, period. They don’t even play by the real rules. Very few college coaches are able to balance good soccer with college success, because it’s flat out unfair how an average but athletic college team can athletically overpower and outlast “better” teams.

That's all fine. If college soccer experience and scholarships are the end game. But the women’s professional game is booming globally now. Every year 100 college grads can probably find a place to play somewhere in the world. It may not pay much, but it pays housing, travel, and basic living money. More than a lot of entry level jobs from college, and WAY more life experiences.

With all this talk of “Development”, you have to define what that means to your DD. If it means “get her a college scholarship”, either league will do just fine for many years to come. But that path can literally ruin a young, talented player’s opportunity to develop into a professiknal quality player. The theory is DA will do that better, but it does still come down to the club. DA rules are harsh, coaching requirements are high, and they mandate all sorts of things ECNL only recommends. The DA will “win”. If your DD is 16 today, that doesn’t mean much. But I trust the league backed by the people who pick national team players and that the pro clubs are supporting for anyone younger if they have even a flicker of a dream to play beyond college.

You trust the people that pick National teams? They are 99.9% of the problem with soccer in this country. Did you back Gulati- Cordero?

ECNL is fine, get the chip off your shoulder, Dad. Don't tryout for DA if you think your Mia doesn't want to be part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the coaches will also be the same as well, correct?

Likely no, you have to have an A license to be the head coach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the coaches will also be the same as well, correct?

Likely no, you have to have an A license to be the head coach.

That’s interesting. Not many of the Arlington coaches have A licenses right now.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This says arlington to get girls da


https://www.soccerwire.com/blog-posts/vda-to-follow-loudoun-to-ecnl-as-youth-soccer-chess-game-rumbles-on/

GAMECHANGER.

All those ulittles that used to play for ASA and left for McLean and Braddock?

wellllll

“GAMECHANGER”? Really?

Yes, instead of any player movement out of ASA for ECNL, McLean and Brad. Rd. zips heading into Arlington next year for Girls DA if they want 1st Tier. Traffic patterns work too. Maybe some head for Spirit, but that pattern may not be as easy.

I don't think anyone expected ASA to get more then a token 13U. Yes this is huge. What don't you get? Or, are you just anti-ASA?

This. But do we really expect that the Arlington DA teams in those three age groups to bring new players on? Won’t it be mostly the existing red teams?

The best girls will not be at Arlington. It’s just a changing of team names. Red team becomes pre-DA.

They will definitely bring in new kids. That’s what happened in boys. The Arlington 06 and 04 boys are probably less than 25% Arlington players.

Jackpot. And here's a parent much smarter then the ASA parent who hopefully will take his little girl to McLean to play for Hope Solo once they hire her for ECNL coach.

Where are these new kids coming from?

[Anonymous]

I’m not sure the men’s national team and the program responsible for building that team have much to brag about. Clearly something hasn’t been working on the boys side. Guess the girls program is now headed in the same direction. Great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure the men’s national team and the program responsible for building that team have much to brag about. Clearly something hasn’t been working on the boys side. Guess the girls program is now headed in the same direction. Great.

Exactly!! I keep asking why are the girls following the boys model when it clearly hasn’t been working. Are the women hoping NOT to qualify for the World Cup in the future?

It’s not DA or ENCL. it’s not. It’s not leagues. We are taking about 11-13 year old girls with this pre-DA. Development. The games don’t matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure the men’s national team and the program responsible for building that team have much to brag about. Clearly something hasn’t been working on the boys side. Guess the girls program is now headed in the same direction. Great.

Exactly!! I keep asking why are the girls following the boys model when it clearly hasn’t been working. Are the women hoping NOT to qualify for the World Cup in the future?

It’s not DA or ENCL. it’s not. It’s not leagues. We are taking about 11-13 year old girls with this pre-DA. Development. The games don’t matter.

Doesn't this "not working for boys" has something to do with the fact that unlike some American sports, in soccer you actually have to compete with the rest of the world?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:What evidence supports the belief that ECNL is beneath Girls DA? The Girls DA is sound in theory but the reality in Year 1 is that the best players are not there yet. PP keep referring to ECNL as 2nd class. Is that perception - Boys DA is strong so by default Girls DA is also strong- or is that reality???

do your due diligence. ecnl coaches know da will win. do you have any friends that coach ecnl and will tell u the truth over a beer? u really think ECNL will be #1 and da #2??? laughable. Bwahhh ha ha ha. look around the US. u r late to this debate and a rabble rouser and just are pissed off.

Its funny to me the idea that leagues "win". Our players need to win by developing to college level. Ultimately our UWSNT needs to win.
It is naive to think that there is one league formula that has enough coverage in this country to grow all of our players to their potential. I like the fact that there are two league formulas. Even at that, there are vast segments of the country that neither ECNL or DA reaches. Nobody wins if one league formula squashes out all other options.
Horses for courses, vive la difference. Find the best development environment for your player, and accept the fact that there will always be a better team, somewhere, somehow.... maybe even from another league.

This is 100% correct. Very well said. Many DA parents on this board have spent their time bashing ECNL, CCL etc. Now that ASA has the DA, we turn on them as not being worthy etc. Enough. This is what is wrong with soccer today in NOVA. Everyone needs to rise above this. ECNL has some darn good teams. Yes, we did pull over ECNL teams to start the DA. DA should become a strong force in girls soccer. But, after 1 year we are not superior - and no we don't dominate the landscape. We may never totally dominate it. What do we really need? Take the best players and feed them in the US Training Center and extend it beyond U15. If they are DA, ECNL, CCL, ODSL, WAGS - it does not matter. Purposely have DA and ECNL teams play each other on a regular basis - how do we say DA is dominant when we don't play the other "top" league or leagues? It would be good for everyone - including colleges and the USWNT. So, kudos to ASA for getting DA. Kudos to Loudoun, BYRC, Spirit, FCV, etc. for their successes. If ANYONE on this board has TRULY had a kid who has played at relatively competitive level at Jefferson Cup (or CASL etc), State or Regional ODP, State Cups, USTC, PDP, ECNL or now the newly minted DA - you know that there are darn good kids on many teams - even the teams we think we are so superior to. Show lets all some respect and knock it off.

Good point. DA and ECNL should be able to work together and play games against one another. That would help both leagues with scheduling and travel.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The costs for a good travel team are close to $5k even if you're not in ECNL (and I'm one of the posters who has stated the $5k number on this board before). You're doing WAGS, CASL, Bethesda, Disney, Jeff Cup and PDA for tourneys, and then State Cup on top of league games. Hotels and travel add up quickly.

So for ECNL, instead of Disney, you do ECNL Florida so that's a wash. PDA and JeffCup are the same. So you do ECNL Texas or Arizona instead of Bethesda, WAGS, and/or CASL. So that makes ECNL a little higher but then you're not doing State Cup, or Region 1 league, or National League. Out of state travel for league games is a wash because BRYC pays for buses so you don't have to go with the team, pay for your gas and the hotel rooms are split between more people (i/o of paying for one room for me and my kid, I pay for one-third of a room). Yes, you might have to pay to go to ECNL Nationals, but then you might have had to pay for USYS Regionals. All in all, not a notable difference in costs for a good team, and maybe a little more for just a decent team, but then the team is getting more exposure from the ECNL showcases than they otherwise would from playing in lower flights at tournaments.

So again, all in all, I'm very happy that BRYC went to ECNL.

ECNL can include:
CASL - $300
Jeff Cup -$300
PDA- $300
Disney- $1000+
Phoenix/Seattle- $1000+
Texas- $1000+

And lets not forget current out of town regular season trips to NC, SC as well as Richmond. $300 per trip. Travel alone is in the range of $3000-$6000 in travel alone depending on overall schedule, conference etc.

Training fees will be similar to other A team costs $2500-$3000.

The total is somewhere between $6000-$10,000 per year.

Now ask yourself, would adding Arlington to ECNL along with VDA and Loudoun and realigning conferences lower the costs?

Not correct when comparing to Spirit - whose starting fee is $5K before any travel etc.

The PP had nothing to do with Spirit. ECNL, as currently aligned will cost no less that $6000 and will likely reach $10,000.

If you decide to change clubs and go to Loudoun to play in ECNL, currently Red runs $2500-$2800 before you have even purchased your kit. Every ECNL club goes to all of the ECNL National events of which there are 5:
Florida
Phoenix (twice)
Texas
NJ

And THAT is before Jeff Cup, Disney Showcase, CASL. Every ECNL event will set you back $1000 other than NJ.

The DA tournament/showcase schedule is not nearly as packed as ECNL.

You will be told "less than DA's" but that is just not the reality.

What exactly is the goal for your DD? Mine wants to play at the highest level. She dreams of it. She works at it. She can get a scholarship just as easy in ECNL as DA most likely. Older girls in her club get to train with real professionals. She's not going to get scouted by national team scouts nearly as much anywhere but the DA. They are are almost every regular season game. The WS fee looks high. But we haven't had to pay a dime over that for anything but travel. Overall, it's about the same or even less than we paid in ECNL. We paid for everything that happened in ECNL. Uniforms. Supplemental this or that. Futsal. I'm afraid to really add it up.

Cost is around the same, but we get more IMO. DA is 4 nights per week, ECNL was mostly 3, and many of those in the off season were skipped. Extra field nights cost $$ or takes away from other teams the club can handle. Every game is video taped and we can see them within 24 hours. That can't be cheap. Every showcase is 3 games in 4 days, so a 5 day trip and safer for the players. DA requires trainers at every game. DA requires medical and fitness testing. The DA requires A and B coaching licenses, which I understand the clubs pay for.

Not PP. Not sure what the disagreement is you are having, but with the dilution of ECNL given all their clubs in the DMV, I think these posters would agree with you that the FCV or Spirit DAs are the top level. ECNL is a new second tier, which has some benefits for some college-playing families especially if it is at your local club. The costs are very comparable. ECNL needs to lower its costs and DA can keep theirs where they are. All DA players want college, but the same can't be said for all ECNL players now IMO.

In re-reading the PP I think we actually are in agreement.

ECNL can lower cost by reducing regular season travel. Their expansion locally can address that cost. They can reduce the number of National events or at least regionalize them. No reason for a CA club to play in a NJ showcase. And then bada bing you have well organized "second" level league.

And with a true second tier league, yes, National Scouts have a place to look for those late bloomers. College scouts will do the same. It will remain a legitimate pathway.

What do you think of the "changed' landscape now?

ASA has taken VDA's place with a couple more ECNL clubs but I am not sure this is a sea change. For female players, I see you are still left with 4 DAs and 6 ECNL clubs in the DMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ECNL is a platform, a league. There will be the same coaches, same players, same facilities, etc., but the cost will be much more then the average Arlington Red team incurs. Some Red teams have higher costs, but most do not. The $6 -$10K range is standard for ECNL depending on where its played in the US. The reality is that now all Red teams/players will be forced into this higher cost platform, even if they are not aspiring to the collegiate level. Girls want to play with their peer group, and if they are good players, they want to stay with their good player friends. What family would tell their daughter, sorry, since your focus is college academics and we are investing as much money as we can for that, we do not want you to do the pricey ECNL with your friends and you should instead drop down to the B team and play in CCL? -- that will be the unicorn family.

That is the one unfortunate part of the situation to all these clubs announcing ECNL. It will be fine for a few families seeking out next tier college scouts without the commitment of GDA, but certainly many families have not been walking around Long Bridge Park saying "we need ECNL or else we'll leave!" I have heard that about zero times.

The writing may be on the wall though. With Loudoun, a strong club that always offers good competition in CCL, entering into the ECNL, Arlington may feel it has no other choice to have good competition. I am not sure who makes these decisions - the BOD, the DOC, etc. - but I would hope parents have a voice and are involved and held accountable, for both the good and the bad, by the many other families in Arlington. The fear of being left behind should not be driving this. Would Arlington implode and see an exodus of players if it was decided to do nothing this year? I highly doubt it. Do we have a problem like Loudoun with a GDA next door? No. Make sure the solution makes sense, right?

With ECNL in Arlington, everyone should also know what happens next. The Red team tries out and becomes next year's ECNL team. The White team, the B team, tries out and becomes the Red team, but a B Red team. Often, the bottom team, say Black, just disappears as they go to Blue. There is no real net gain or loss of players, but the psychology of this plays into the desire of parents to be on the top team of something. We are ECNL team, top team playing in the ECNL league! We are Red team, top team playing in the CCL league! This occurs already on the boys side with the DA teams and Red "B" teams. So going forward, being on the Red Team in Arlington just means you are the B team playing in a B league against other CCL clubs' B teams like Loudoun Red (which is made up of its B team players).

The poster above jokes about the money grab that you can see throughout this. But Arlington is not taking your money anymore then parents are giving it to them. It is a money flow and all parties are guilty and shouldn't be pointing fingers at anyone. Arlington by going ECNL is perpetuating this arms race, absolutely, but so are the parents that are willing to pay for the ECNL next year, even though they can look themselves in the mirror and know their daughter has no chance or even desire to play in college. (I think the trend will be that those families with that possibility in the cards -- and a super, aspiring player -- will gravitate and are gravitating towards GDA.) As for ECNL, it cannot be blamed for doing exactly what we would all expect and expanding where they see opportunity and a willing, paying market for what is called elite youth soccer.

Now, just sit tight and wait for the formal announcements to come. Good luck to all.

All of this still applies to Arlington.

I wonder if it would have been an easier transition for families/players/teams with the ECNL option, but guessing probably not as long as Arlington can keep adding an older age group each year.

[Anonymous]

Arlington girls will have a tough time just "going over to" Spirit after their DA runs out at U15. If the U16 teams continue to be together with the U17 there will only be spots available for the few really good players, not nearly an entire team

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^well, in Arlington, all the lemmings have to do what everyone else does.

They need something to boast about. Nobody has an independent thought or a set of balls. Bunch of sycophants.

Sounds like it will be the only club in the entire area that eventually has a FULL Boy's DA plus a FULL Girl's DA.

No one else is trying that.

BTW, my DD has no idea to be a "lemming" going to Arlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Arlington girls will have a tough time just "going over to" Spirit after their DA runs out at U15. If the U16 teams continue to be together with the U17 there will only be spots available for the few really good players, not nearly an entire team

That age group is being split. already testing 16u and 17u separate teams in the Frontier Division