Betsy DeVos and Vouchers - Yes!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:30,000 per student in DC. that is what charters get and what dcps gets per student? Holy cow!

Yes, if you give me 30,000 per kid, I'm pretty sure I could arrange an excellent education for my kids. How can DCPS not? Basically, they could hire like one teacher for every 5 kids?

That's not 30k going directly to instruction. It's everything else you need to manage a large organization. It's also an average - kids with more needs get more. There is much more to running a school district than paying a teacher.

DC has one of the highest per-pupil spending of any school district. According to one study, DC has the highest per-pupil spending of any school district in the country. They pay teachers very highly for the area, so that explains some of the amount. The rest of it?

Well lets take this apart. The vouchers crowd claims that the free market represents the "true" educational model. Hence, the amount of vouchers ought to reflect the price that can be paid on the free market for a good education. The good privates in DC charge somewhere around 30k/year. Hence, 30k/year is a reasonable market price in DC to pay for a good education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:30,000 per student in DC. that is what charters get and what dcps gets per student? Holy cow!

Yes, if you give me 30,000 per kid, I'm pretty sure I could arrange an excellent education for my kids. How can DCPS not? Basically, they could hire like one teacher for every 5 kids?

That's not 30k going directly to instruction. It's everything else you need to manage a large organization. It's also an average - kids with more needs get more. There is much more to running a school district than paying a teacher.

DC has one of the highest per-pupil spending of any school district. According to one study, DC has the highest per-pupil spending of any school district in the country. They pay teachers very highly for the area, so that explains some of the amount. The rest of it?

Well lets take this apart. The vouchers crowd claims that the free market represents the "true" educational model. Hence, the amount of vouchers ought to reflect the price that can be paid on the free market for a good education. The good privates in DC charge somewhere around 30k/year. Hence, 30k/year is a reasonable market price in DC to pay for a good education.

Sorry, forgot the last hence: Hence, 30k per pupil expenditure is about exactly right for DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:30,000 per student in DC. that is what charters get and what dcps gets per student? Holy cow!

Yes, if you give me 30,000 per kid, I'm pretty sure I could arrange an excellent education for my kids. How can DCPS not? Basically, they could hire like one teacher for every 5 kids?

That's not 30k going directly to instruction. It's everything else you need to manage a large organization. It's also an average - kids with more needs get more. There is much more to running a school district than paying a teacher.

DC has one of the highest per-pupil spending of any school district. According to one study, DC has the highest per-pupil spending of any school district in the country. They pay teachers very highly for the area, so that explains some of the amount. The rest of it?

Oh jeez, really? Facilities, materials, special ed, computers, libraries, administrative costs like record keeping, lawyers, HR people, payroll people, etc etc etc

And abysmal reading and math proficiency rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:30,000 per student in DC. that is what charters get and what dcps gets per student? Holy cow!

Yes, if you give me 30,000 per kid, I'm pretty sure I could arrange an excellent education for my kids. How can DCPS not? Basically, they could hire like one teacher for every 5 kids?

That's not 30k going directly to instruction. It's everything else you need to manage a large organization. It's also an average - kids with more needs get more. There is much more to running a school district than paying a teacher.

DC has one of the highest per-pupil spending of any school district. According to one study, DC has the highest per-pupil spending of any school district in the country. They pay teachers very highly for the area, so that explains some of the amount. The rest of it?

Oh jeez, really? Facilities, materials, special ed, computers, libraries, administrative costs like record keeping, lawyers, HR people, payroll people, etc etc etc

And abysmal reading and math proficiency rates.

Well, a significant subset of schools are doing pretty well. But this isn't a debate about school quality -- it's a debate about whether a voucher-funding scheme could actually improve school quality.

[Anonymous]

I apologize if this is addressed in the previous 20+ pages:

What school districts are "successful" examples of public schools being replaced/supplemented with a voucher system? In the DeVos coverage, the Michigan case studies sound awful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think 40k is erroneous.

1. Newark Public Schools, New Jersey 30,742
2. Buffalo Public Schools, New York 29,023
3. Camden City Public Schools, New Jersey 26,826
4. District of Columbia Department of Education 26,661
5. East Orange School District, New Jersey 25,190

I'm not sure where you're getting those numbers, but everything I've seen on DC is <$20K. And I'd guess about $3-5K is just catching up on the maintenance/renovation backlog because of decades of neglect of the facilities.

I'd love to see us spend $30K/kid on our public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think 40k is erroneous.

1. Newark Public Schools, New Jersey 30,742
2. Buffalo Public Schools, New York 29,023
3. Camden City Public Schools, New Jersey 26,826
4. District of Columbia Department of Education 26,661
5. East Orange School District, New Jersey 25,190

I'm not sure where you're getting those numbers, but everything I've seen on DC is <$20K. And I'd guess about $3-5K is just catching up on the maintenance/renovation backlog because of decades of neglect of the facilities.

I'd love to see us spend $30K/kid on our public schools.

I've seen anywhere from $17k to $29k. Any way you slice it, DC spends a lot per pupil, and very unevenly as well.

[Anonymous]

^^^ Gimme a voucher for that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Gimme a voucher for that!

Sure, you can have a voucher for $17k. Where exactly are you going to send your child to school with that in DC? What is the guaranteed nirvana you dream of?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Gimme a voucher for that!

Sure, you can have a voucher for $17k. Where exactly are you going to send your child to school with that in DC? What is the guaranteed nirvana you dream of?

Not PP but Gonzaga is $21k and STC is $18.5k. Would love to have a $17k voucher towards my DS going there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Gimme a voucher for that!

Sure, you can have a voucher for $17k. Where exactly are you going to send your child to school with that in DC? What is the guaranteed nirvana you dream of?

Not PP but Gonzaga is $21k and STC is $18.5k. Would love to have a $17k voucher towards my DS going there.

Right, this assumes that your DS is magically going to get into Gonzaga or STC. There are simply not enough spots in high quality privates for all the middle class DCUMers who would get $17k vouchers (even in this imaginary world where vouchers go to the middle class and approach the cost of per-pupil expenditure).

[Anonymous]

Gimme the damn voucher and shut up already!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Gimme the damn voucher and shut up already!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ Gimme a voucher for that!

Sure, you can have a voucher for $17k. Where exactly are you going to send your child to school with that in DC? What is the guaranteed nirvana you dream of?

Not PP but Gonzaga is $21k and STC is $18.5k. Would love to have a $17k voucher towards my DS going there.

Right, this assumes that your DS is magically going to get into Gonzaga or STC. There are simply not enough spots in high quality privates for all the middle class DCUMers who would get $17k vouchers (even in this imaginary world where vouchers go to the middle class and approach the cost of per-pupil expenditure).

Already magically got into both. Speak for yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think 40k is erroneous.

1. Newark Public Schools, New Jersey 30,742
2. Buffalo Public Schools, New York 29,023
3. Camden City Public Schools, New Jersey 26,826
4. District of Columbia Department of Education 26,661
5. East Orange School District, New Jersey 25,190

I'm not sure where you're getting those numbers, but everything I've seen on DC is <$20K. And I'd guess about $3-5K is just catching up on the maintenance/renovation backlog because of decades of neglect of the facilities.

I'd love to see us spend $30K/kid on our public schools.

Here's how the DC school spending breaks down for DCPS -- factors in at risk, special education and construction/renovation funds by school http://dcpsbudget.ourdcschools.org/